Nurburgring Race Series - Week 13 - Falken GTR - w/ Results

[goixoye]

Nurburgring Race Series, Week 13​

Race Cars 350-450HP (Target) - Actual >> 441-534HP (w/ oil change)​

For Voting Results See Post#2​

For Race Results See Post#3​

Dave’s target this week was 350-450HP. Next weeks target was 450-650HP. There are several cars around 500HP including the JGTC 500 series that sorta fit in between these categories. Looking at next week’s available cars I elected to include the 500HP +/- cars this week. Next week the cars will range from 632-694HP (w/ oil change).

This week there with only be an oil change, regardless of the final selection. This week we’ll also be racing on R3 tires.

There are 6 cars again but only 3 slots on the ballot. Your top 3 choices, in order of preference, just like always.

On to the choices:


BMW M3 GTR Race Car
Availability: European Hall, Schwartzwald Liga A


Alfa Romeo 155 Race Car
Availability: European Hall, La Festa Italiano


Audi TT Touring Car


Honda Takata Dome NSX


Toyota Woodone Supra


Falken GT-R Race Car

No discussion of car selections. Voting deadline is Sunday, January 29, 2006, 9pm GMT (=4pm US EST). Send votes to me via PM.

 

[goixoye]

Voting Results:

6. 04pts - Alfa Romeo 155
5. 06pts - Toyota Woodone Supra
3. 08pts - Audi TT Touring Car & BMW M3 GTR Race Car (Tie)
2. 10pts - Honda Takata Dome NSX
1. 12pts - Falken GT-R

Modifications:
Oil Change >> 534HP
R3 Tires

Race deadline is Monday, February 6, 2006, 9pm GMT (=4pm US EST). Submit times to me via PM. Standard OLR rules apply.

 

[goixoye]

Race Results:

KENT (2 for 2) grabs the top spot followed very closely by DR WATSON and VEXD fills out the podium. DAVE_GEORGE, GOIXOYE, ONLYME, SOYFU, APPIE17 and ASHLEY round out the participants (in finishing order).

Well done to all for the hard work.

 

[nitro_2005]

hmm, I think I'll give this a go.

 

[geeTeye]

My votes are in.

 

[Dr_Watson]

don't forget to vote if you havn't already.
some fine machinery up for grabs.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Voted, im gonna start taking part in this now, i love the nurburgring.

 

[goixoye]

Voting results posted. See post #2.

BTW the Falken was a last minute addition (the 6th car) to the list. For some reason it thought of it and checked it's HP level and found that it fit into this category. Some of the 1st GT4 screen shots I remember seeing were of this car on the 'Ring so maybe it's appropriate that we take it for a spin. This is the only car on this week's list that didn't come stock with R3s. So don't forget to change them...I can't imagine that anybody would?

 

[goixoye]

I'm 4th in the standings! But I expect thats as high as I'll go. After studying the Week 12 Leaderboard a bit it looks like I'll finish the series in 6th overall. Anyway enough of this typing I think I'll go see what this Falken car will do.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I drove the Falken in the nurb 24 hour race and loved it, got good experiance in this car.

 

[Dave_George]

Had 1 quick session with this car so thought I would share the experience to kick things off this week!

Cant remember T times but this car is mighty quick and easy to drive quick at the same time.

I found i needed limited tuning overall but some help to get the front end turned in and then stay on the desired line was needed, so far ive lowered the front spring rate and lowered the front stabiliser a bit which seems to have helped, Toe just made the car unpredictable for me so i left that alone, stock damping seems good too.

Will post some times later tonight when i get the chance.

regards to all

David

 

[goixoye]

I was seduced by this week's WRS but I've finished up and will put in my 1st session with the Falken tonight.

 

[Dave_George]

I think my T10 time ended up being somewhere in the 5'45-47 region after a few laps.

Cant help feeling the Falken feels very good on stock settings and as a result am unsure which way to go with it....any ideas anyone!?

regards

David

 

[goixoye]

Generally, my rule of thumb is, "if it ain't broke don't fix it". Maybe the car doesn't need any adjustments. I thought the ASL was a greart car with stock settings but Dr Watsons advice reduced my final time by 2.351s (but I believe that was mostly the tranny?). Week 11's Civic felt a little stiff due to the bouncy feel on some sections of the track but generally I find these race cars pretty agreeable. What seems to provide the best reductions in lap time is finessing the corners and maintaining momentum. Of course that said I suppose that even minor setting adjustments allow you to carry more speed into and through a corner...so never mind.

But for me I haven't learned how to tweak a car that is this close to perfect...usually if I touch it at all I screw it up and make it worse. Hopefully the good Dr will help us out.

 

[Dave_George]

Generally, my rule of thumb is, "if it ain't broke don't fix it". Maybe the car doesn't need any adjustments. I thought the ASL was a greart car with stock settings but Dr Watsons advice reduced my final time by 2.351s (but I believe that was mostly the tranny?). Week 11's Civic felt a little stiff due to the bouncy feel on some sections of the track but generally I find these race cars pretty agreeable. What seems to provide the best reductions in lap time is finessing the corners and maintaining momentum. Of course that said I suppose that even minor setting adjustments allow you to carry more speed into and through a corner...so never mind.

But for me I haven't learned how to tweak a car that is this close to perfect...usually if I touch it at all I screw it up and make it worse. Hopefully the good Dr will help us out.

I agree Ronny, however my opinion is that the default settings are the same for each car, that means each car should respond positively to some minor changes, however this week nothing seems to really get me anywhere!!

Should be interesting to see what people come up with....

regards

Dave

 

[Kent]

Well,
I'm pretty consistant about using "near default" setups.
That's just how my tuning philosophy works (much like some of you).

However, for this combo, I just spent a nice amount of time running and working on the setup.
The end results are suspension settings that are much more complex than my usual setups.

later tonight (5:50 pm now), I will come back with T times and my setup. Hopefully it will help atleast one racer.
Until then,
-Kent

 

[Kent]

126.5 Miles of Testing...

T10: 5'43.685 (clean)

All Stock Settings Except:

Suspension:
9.0/8.5 springs
84/84 ride height
7/8 bound
7/8 rebound
3.0/1.3 camber
0/0 toe
5/6 stabilizers

Downforce:
38/49

Driving Aids:
0/0/0

Please give them a try exactly as they are listed.
These settings work as a unit and specific areas will not work to their maximum if they are not all set according to each-other.

Thank you for atleast trying them as they are listed.

I hope they help everyone.

 

[goixoye]

@Kent, I'll definitely give them a go and report back.

I really have nothing of significant value to report but I did put in a session. As you may recall I ease my way into the car. This week as a warm up I've run a few Family Cup races with the car in full stock trim (no oil, R1s). I've worked with 5, 6 and 7 (146pts) for difficulty. I usually get by the AI in the 1st half of the 1st lap so the second lap is not unlike a time trial except there's tire wear. Quite entertaining really. The R1s are yellow at the end of the 2nd lap so there's no way the R3s are going to make it in Family Cup.

So I went for a spin in Arcade Mode. Was able to adjust to 531HP (GT Mode w/ oil 534HP). R3s. Difficulty 8 (91pts). T10 of lap 2 was 5'55.

The industry breaks racing games into "arcade" and "simulation" categories with differences in "physics". Does GT4's Arcade Mode have different physics? It doesn't feel like it does. So, in Arcade Mode am I driving the same car as the stock Falken in GT Mode only with 3 less HP (assuming I use "default" settings for the GT Mode car)?

 

[Kent]

@Kent, I'll definitely give them a go and report back.

I really have nothing of significant value to report but I did put in a session. As you may recall I ease my way into the car. This week as a warm up I've run a few Family Cup races with the car in full stock trim (no oil, R1s). I've worked with 5, 6 and 7 (146pts) for difficulty. I usually get by the AI in the 1st half of the 1st lap so the second lap is not unlike a time trial except there's tire wear. Quite entertaining really. The R1s are yellow at the end of the 2nd lap so there's no way the R3s are going to make it in Family Cup.

So I went for a spin in Arcade Mode. Was able to adjust to 531HP (GT Mode w/ oil 534HP). R3s. Difficulty 8 (91pts). T10 of lap 2 was 5'55.

The industry breaks racing games into "arcade" and "simulation" categories with differences in "physics". Does GT4's Arcade Mode have different physics? It doesn't feel like it does. So, in Arcade Mode am I driving the same car as the stock Falken in GT Mode only with 3 less HP (assuming I use "default" settings for the GT Mode car)?

Cool. 👍
Let me know how the settings work for you.

Also, in my opinion, there is no difference in the physics of Arcade mode and GT mode.
That's just an opinion but I'm confident about it.
I've spent a ton of time working with the McLaren in Arcade mode on the Ring and after repeatedly switching back and forth, I have come to the conclusion that the Arcade is the same as GT with the difference of adjustable settings (suspension, downforce, etc etc).

I will be looking forward to hearing what you have to say about those saying... Pending on how you rate them I may post them in the GTP wiki database so please don't be shy about explaining your opinion of them (maybe that's what the reputation points on each reply are for? )

Anyway, I'll be back in the mid-day tomorrow (after school in the morning).
Until then have fun with the racing everyone!

Btw, "goix"
how do you like my new sig?

 

[goixoye]

@Kent, nice sig...thanks for promoting us. Nice picture too. I assume the grafitti is an edit?

Unfortunately my internet was down 1st thing this morning and I failed to write your settings down last night but obviously I'm back on-line now. So hopefully I'll get a chance to run them tonight.

This morning's session did give me a chance to put up a pretty good target with default settings. So all is not lost. There are a couple of places where I have to lift just a tiny bit that if your settings allow me to stay hammer down it's gonna result in a nice improvement.

So far:
T10 = 5'47.600

Where are you ONLYME? We're usually dead even. I've got to improve this lap as I blew the final sector and lost 0.3s and left the door wide open.

 

[Dave_George]

Also, in my opinion, there is no difference in the physics of Arcade mode and GT mode.
That's just an opinion but I'm confident about it.
I've spent a ton of time working with the McLaren in Arcade mode on the Ring and after repeatedly switching back and forth, I have come to the conclusion that the Arcade is the same as GT with the difference of adjustable settings (suspension, downforce, etc etc).

I will be looking forward to hearing what you have to say about those saying... Pending on how you rate them I may post them in the GTP wiki database so please don't be shy about explaining your opinion of them (maybe that's what the reputation points on each reply are for? )

I will have a try also with these settings Kent and post some feedback as and when time allows....

Regarding the Arcade/GT mode comparison, I too thought they were the same, however when running the WRS some time ago, think it was the FPV @ Suzuka east or west i flipped between the arcade and GT mode and thought i could feel a difference in how the car behaved, in GT mode it felt just slightly harder to control on the limit although the times were too close to show up any difference, the subject certainly lends itself to some more in depth testing (Shouts for Scaff........)!

regards

David

 

[Kent]

Well, just a few things I want to post about before school.

1) Actually "goix,"
That picture is untouched.
Found that on the Ring somewhere after T8 or T9.
I wish I had been better about getting the camera setup... I found a spot that actually said "Falken Power" and when I found it I was amazed. Oddly, I didn't take a picture of it and then went and tried to find it again (it was right at T8). When I went back I couldn't find it and in every place I thought it might have been, there was a german company's name (audi power, vw power, opel power, bmw power)... Found all of those but the "Falken Power" was gone.
That's also convinced me now that certain parts of the graffitti change.

2) Dave,
I'm not really sure about the physics (because I can never be 100%).
However, we had a nice discussion about this concept here... https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=75096&page=2
Starting page 2 (which is what I've linked to).

Unfortunately, Live4Speed and I were the only ones making any valid points (everyone else was doing the GT4 forum spam thing).

I did have Scaff come in to say this... (made me laugh) https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2082024&postcount=45

Anyway, regarding the subject at hand...
I really don't think there is a difference.
The main reason I say that?
Hundreds of miles in the McLaren F1 at the Nurburgring (enough miles to get my time down to 5'26.977 !!!)

If that didn't give me experience in arcade mode then I don't know what will.
After all that time I switched to the GT Mode combo and couldn't find any differences other than the options.
Arcade lets you reduce weight and increase power but nothing else. GT mode lets you increase power and change settings but it doesn't go much further than that.

So, in my opinion, the only differences between Arcade and GT mode are the options associated with their use. 👍

Admittedly, I could be wrong.
However, I am confident (as I said before) that there is no difference between the two.
(Other than the fact that Arcade mode cars are always on stock settings and are limited to certain types of tires)

Anyway, I've gotta start getting ready for school.
I'll be back around noon (8:30am now).

Until later,
-Kent

Remember to let me know what you all think of those settings and feel free to rate the reply those settings were posted in. 👍

 

[OnlyMe]

So far:
T10 = 5'47.600

Where are you ONLYME? We're usually dead even. I've got to improve this lap as I blew the final sector and lost 0.3s and left the door wide open.

You can beat me easily these days! I just haven't got the time these last few weeks to make a competitive effort...

In the whole of last week, I drove a fantastic total of 63 km with the ASL. And even that mileage was divided in three sessions. This week, I haven't even had time to buy the car yet I hope to get a time (any time!) in by the deadline, but the only time I can find nowadays is 10 minutes here and 15 minutes there....

That's also the reason why the board hasn't been updated in almost two weeks... I hope you guys can forgive me for that, but I just don't seem to get around to it...

 

[Dave_George]

Had a look at that link Kent, interesting article pictured there but again inconclusive as you said:tup: Scaffs post was good too....

Without doing some more testing i cant be sure myself on the subject, maybe with a stock car on identical tyres any diff would show up.... However with adjustable suspension the GT mode car would always feel different as the arcade mode uses a default value of unknown settings, something i might investigate some time. Anyway without wanting to send this thread totally off topic....

Had two laps with your settings Kent although have to admit I forgot to alter the downforce though...., inital impressions seemed good, the extra front camber helped on the turn in and front end grip and by keeping the damping tight whilst setting the springs softer the kerbs can really be attacked and the Falken ends up feeling like it needs another 100 horses.....First turn into the double apex right just after Flugplatz showed that i needed to lift slightly and the same went for certain other corners so i just put the springs up by 0.5 each end which tightened up the high speed handling, low speed corners felt good with no hassle getting the power down asap, the same could be said of meduim corners. So just the high speed stuff i had an issue with.....Could be my driving though:tup:

Overall builds on the default to make the Falken highly entertaining on the ring with seemingly few negative side effects:tup:

T10 down to 5'45 now with perhaps some more to come if i find the good lap (Not going to say perfect lap as im not sure it exists)

One last thing, regarding the reputation points - Im not sure i can add those as you have to have 100 at least to do that, but i cant see anyones either, somthing im missing perhaps?

regards

David

 

[Kent]

Well,
Driving "style" will make some difference in the setup (take the everything from T1 to T2 at full speed) (unless I play it safe).

Seen 1'11.0 and lower at T2 so if that helps you see where you may be lossing speed?

Regarding the rep points... Don't worry about giving them up. 👍
I've been trying to collect them as I could since I didn't take the easy route and give them to myself (as a mod I can change them manually to whatever I want).

However, I'm pretty sure you are missing something about the system because I can give rep points and my rep is only valued at 41 (tested it a moment ago).

Regarding the lap and new efforts... That will come later today after I get a bite to eat. Just got home from school and playing GT would just be frustrating without getting a little food in my belly.

So until later today,
-Kent

Edit:
Btw, I appreciate you taking the time to test and review those settings. 👍

 

[goixoye]

You can beat me easily these days! I just haven't got the time these last few weeks to make a competitive effort...

In the whole of last week, I drove a fantastic total of 63 km with the ASL. And even that mileage was divided in three sessions. This week, I haven't even had time to buy the car yet I hope to get a time (any time!) in by the deadline, but the only time I can find nowadays is 10 minutes here and 15 minutes there....

That's also the reason why the board hasn't been updated in almost two weeks... I hope you guys can forgive me for that, but I just don't seem to get around to it...

Well I'm embarrassed. I worked the pee out of the ASL and managed only .5s ahead of you. If you actually find time to "try" I'm toast.

Don't worry about the leaderboard. Unfortunately there haven't been too many competitors or posts so it's not too difficult to scroll through the thread

 

[Dave_George]

Well,
Driving "style" will make some difference in the setup (take the everything from T1 to T2 at full speed) (unless I play it safe).

Seen 1'11.0 and lower at T2 so if that helps you see where you may be lossing speed?

Regarding the rep points... Don't worry about giving them up. 👍
I've been trying to collect them as I could since I didn't take the easy route and give them to myself (as a mod I can change them manually to whatever I want).

However, I'm pretty sure you are missing something about the system because I can give rep points and my rep is only valued at 41 (tested it a moment ago).

Im seeing T2 of about 1'11.7xx ish so far with a quickest of 1'10.9xx (although that set up worked upto T2 it was terrible furthur on the circuit....)

Im flat out from T1 to T2 seeing top end in that sector of 178mph i think.

Any ideas on how i get the rep points thing sorted as i agree im missing something....!

cheers

David

 

[Kent]

So the setup didn't work for you after T2?
I guess that's to my advantage when the results come around huh?

I suppose everyone has their own way to do it.

Regarding rep points... I'm not sure about the rules exactly but the only way to find out is testing. 👍
Click on the little red check mark on the top right of each post, then the screen are taken to will have "I agree" and "I disagree" with a space to type out a comment if you wish.

If you click the red check and it doesn't lead you to that screen then I suppose there is indeed a problem.

No big deal though, like I said, I'm not worried about rep points too much (plus, based on your description of the setup being "terrible" I am guessing a rep hit for that post would not be positive).

In any case, I'll be back later.
Now I'm headed off to get some racing done.

Btw, I just watch the top gear clip of the Alfa 147 GTA and was suprised... It was actually rather fast around the track when the stig did his test lap.

Edit:
A few points...

1) It may be possible that the high-speed handling of the setup you used (dave) was hurt by not adjusting the downforce (in fact, I'm almost sure of it).

2) I've just scored new T times but the lap that went dirty just before the finish like is the kicker... 5'41.5 T10.

3) The lap from the above mentioned T times made me believe that the setup I posted is one of the best setups I've come up with in a long time.

4) The Falken Race Car is slowly becoming one of my favorite rides... I'm going to be testing it as a road car in the future (using S3 tires for hotlaps).

Hope you all are enjoying this race as much as I am. 👍

oh, and I saw 1'10.3 at T2 during my last session.

 

[Dave_George]

So the setup didn't work for you after T2?
I guess that's to my advantage when the results come around huh?

I suppose everyone has their own way to do it.

Kent thats my fault for not explaining better, I meant with you set up that i modified slightly i was seeing T2 of 1'11.7xx consistently and with one of my earlier set ups i saw a 1'10.9xx but the car was too loose after the Karussell section so i scrapped that setup.

My comments were in no way intended to down your setup, quite the opposite, i just didnt write clearly enough:tup:

regards

David

 

[Kent]

Ah, well no offense was taken so it's all good.

Although I've got to break this to you (in the name of honesty)...
I've just hit some new lows in my T times.

First some fun though... Check this out.
"2 Fast 4 You" (an interesting ring find)
"Falken Power" (another interesting ring find)

Now to address the "important" stuff.

T2: 1'10.001
T10: 5'39.637 (cause it should be faster )

If I can hit the lap that I know is there, I should be able to get T10 to about 5'38.0 (not sure about much lower than that).
Just getting to 38.0 will be hard enough... Don't expect to see those times coming from me, my goal for this week will be to hit 39.0 and if I manage that I will start shooting for 38.5 (although that will be hard as well).

Whatever the case, I feel like you all should be kept up to date on my progress (with the same setup).
Also, dave, if you ever want to check your rep points just click on the red check of one of your own replies. 👍

Finally, good luck with the racing everyone.
Hopefully I will be back before the week's end with new times.
Until then,
-
(might be hard to do though since I would like to get some "Mini" practice in before the Mini Cup begins, which all of you are invited to)