Obama Presidency Discussion Thread

[Tornado]

I understand that. But many people don't know any of the bad things about Roosevelt's administration so they view it as a godsend, much like they do with Reagan's.

I'd also venture a guess to say that many people wouldn't particularly care if they did know, if only because it goes against their preconcieved notions, but perhaps that would be too cynical of me.

 

[YSSMAN]

People on both sides of the political spectrum view Regan and FDR as both saviors and demons, and to that point of the argument, I agree with Toronado. I'm indifferent on FDR for the most part... He did his job, and turned this boat around. Something that Hoover was unable to do. Forward 50 years, Regan did much the same thing. He cranked up the national debt to levels beyond imagination... The exact opposite that a Republican should be doing.

Every President is going to have a good and bad side, and depending on what your particular political areas of interest are will likely determine how you view a particular leader. I catch a lot of flak for saying that I like Nixon, but he played a crucial role in the power play against the Soviets (recognizing the PRC), capping nuclear weapons, and eventually leading to the end of the Vietnam conflict. But if you're using the constitutional arguement, civil liberties, and anything that really has to do with the laws of the Presidency... Nixon was a terrible President.

 

[Danoff]

I'm indifferent on FDR for the most part... He did his job, and turned this boat around.

He most certainly did not. The boat may have turned, but it wasn't FDR's doing.

Forward 50 years, Regan did much the same thing. He cranked up the national debt to levels beyond imagination... The exact opposite that a Republican should be doing.

Except when he's trying to... I dunno... win the cold war. It's not like he was throwing money away on socialist programs, national defense is a legitimate function of government.

Every President is going to have a good and bad side, and depending on what your particular political areas of interest are will likely determine how you view a particular leader.

You do like to claim that these things are purely subjective and that there's no sense in arguing. I think it is quite easy and important to look back and see which president's policies were good and which ones were bad. In pretty much every aspect of the term, FDR's programs were "bad".

I catch a lot of flak for saying that I like Nixon,

You shouldn't catch much flak for that.

 

[FoolKiller]

The main problem with regard to FDR is that if you study economics or Constitutional law you recognize that what he did was not good, and did not achieve what it was once perceived to have done.

The rest of the population however sees a country in a crisis, FDR makes huge changes, and things turn around. People don't often see that FDR's changes and the turnaround were not related, unless you count slowing things down as being related.

 

[Sniffs]

*sigh*

you must keep in mind the TIMES that the presidents in question were elected. we were coming off of three lemons in a row (nixon/Ford/Carter). it's what the public and politicians wanted at the time!

remember this, everybody. what happens in politics depends on what is WANTED at the time it happens.

 

[Sage]

As someone who’s homosexual, you should know that that is completely inconsequential – just because a horrifying number of Americans don’t want gays to have rights doesn’t mean it’s right or good in any way, shape, or form. Just because people wanted FDR to implement socialist programs doesn’t make it right or good. Look at the quote in Danoff’s sig.

 

[Tornado]

I will also say for an idea of my general stance that Nixon was by far my favorite president, and I hate Kennedy the most.

 

[Omnis]

Calvin Coolidge was a baller. My favorite political figure is Thomas Jefferson, whereas my favorite President is probably George Washington because he had the humility to step down and start the tradition of office terms.

Worst president has to be either Woodrow Wilson or FDR. My understanding is that WW helped create the monster that FDR later put to his own use. Can't forget about Lincoln either, who destroyed the original intent of the Constitution (according to Thomas DiLorenzo).

 

[YSSMAN]

The main problem with regard to FDR is that if you study economics or Constitutional law you recognize that what he did was not good, and did not achieve what it was once perceived to have done.

Quite right. Political Scientists find FDR absolutely fascinating in the way in which he used the tools of the government combined with the problems at hand to completely transform the country... Form coalitions (even with political adversaries)... And best of all sell it to the rest of America. American History folks tend to look more into why he became so popular, despite screwing up big time far too often. For that matter, how a man who had such great vision could ever come up with the idiotic court-packing idea in the first place...

Meh. Everyone's different.

---

Favorite President?

Theodore Roosevelt, by far. Oddly, Jackson comes in a close second, but that's more on the curious character that he was...

Least-Favorite?

I really have a distaste for Woodrow Wilson as well. I give him credit for what he tired/did after WWI, but on everything else, it was too little or too late. I have to say that Hoover is a close second. Historians say that he wasn't that bad, and to some extent I agree, but I just don't like him.

Most Overrated?

Reagan. Period. I'm one of the only Republicans I know that will say it.

 

[Sniffs]

Sage: this is why I don't bother to vote. politics is hot air and organic bovine waste products! (basically, a giant FART).

also, again, I'm a member of Gen X, and sour and cynical, just like the stereotype. I learned to live with whatever happens.

besides, foolkiller is so fun to argue with. if it wasn't for a balloon popper like Danoff...

ever notice a president does fine in their first term, and then gets caught with their pants down (sometimes LITERALLY) in their second?

 

[Omnis]

Sage: this is why I don't bother to vote. politics is hot air and organic bovine waste products! (basically, a giant FART).

also, again, I'm a member of Gen X, and sour and cynical, just like the stereotype. I learned to live with whatever happens.

besides, foolkiller is so fun to argue with. if it wasn't for a balloon popper like Danoff...

ever notice a president does fine in their first term, and then gets caught with their pants down (sometimes LITERALLY) in their second?

Not so. Nixon, GWB, Carter, an so on.

Also, by balloon popper do you mean a violent expulsion of that same hot air?

 

[FoolKiller]

ever notice a president does fine in their first term, and then gets caught with their pants down (sometimes LITERALLY) in their second?

That's because the first term is when you try to get reelected. The second term is when you try to actually get something done.

Fact is: doing what is right is most likely unpopular, so in the second term the president will do what he perceives to be the right thing, and generally it creates more enemies and people really dig to find dirt and sully his name. Why? Because they want to get elected next time around, and by making it look like they fought for "change" they already have their campaign set up.

It is rare to find a politician who spends all of his/her time voting for what is right and not for what will get him/her reelected.

 

[Joey D]

Ok so I was going through the candidates and came across some rather interesting people:

- Frank Moore: Born with Cerebral Palsy and can not talk or walk...how on Earth does someone running for president think they can do a good job if they can not walk or talk? That makes no sense. Not that he'll win, but still.

- Jonathon "The Impaler" Sharkey: Leader of the Vampires, Witches, and Pagans Party...I really don't think I need to say any more on the subject.

===

Anyways I'm really at a loss who to cast my vote for come November, McCain and Obama aren't really doing it for me although I suppose I would take Obama over McCain...but that is like saying you'd rather have your leg cut off over your arm, it's going to suck either way.

I looked at Bob Barr, the Libertarian candidate, and his views don't really match mine and he doesn't really seem overly Libertarian considering his past.

Chuck Baldwin seems overly religious to me and that is not a quality I want in someone running for office.

The Green Party doesn't support any of the ideas that I hold, and Brian Moore and the Socialist party hold some ideas I support but for the most part do not.

You the more I think about it the more Jonathon "The Impaler" Sharkey seems like a good idea, I mean a vampire running the country can't be that bad can it . Nah I wouldn't vote for that nut-job. But I'm still left in a conundrum on who to vote for, guess I will just have to wait and see what all shakes down. I guess if push comes to shove there is always the write in.

===

I'm not doing this to cause a huge debate, if you support one of the candidates I mentioned above then I fully support your right to do so.

 

[YSSMAN]

Vote or not, it seems fairly obvious where our state will be going (Obama... don't listen to the polls, we know what Detroit will do). But, yes, I completely understand your issue at hand.

As soon as the candidates that I liked started dropping like flies, I was a bit worried. But, I took the time to listen to Obama, and I was pleasantly surprised by his message, by the way he carries himself, and simply put, the hope that he puts into every person he talks to. No, I don't agree with all of his policies, but I don't think I have to to vote for someone who I think will be a good President. He, for the most part, cares about what I care for, and although I would personally address some of those issues a little differently... I can't fault him for going about it in a way that, at the very least, makes sense.

My family, all long-time Republicans, will all be voting for Obama in the fall. Not a single one of us can stand McCain at the moment. Both of my Grandmothers, long-standing conservatives, will be voting for him, and that really shocked me the first time my Dad's mother had even given it a thought. From Eisenhower onward, shes been there, and done that. That's how awkward this election has been, and my only suggestion is that you take the time to look into the candidates, and decide maybe not whats best for you, but more importantly, whats best for the country.

 

[Danoff]

I'm honestly surprised anyone can get worked up about McCain vs. Obama. In most of the important ways, it makes no difference. I have to say I really almost don't care which one wins.

 

[Racer21]

From an outsiders point of view to me all the Presidential Candidates seem to have the same sort of political views, friend of Israel, tough on Iran for example. I fear that if Obama is elected he will be assassinated as old habits die hard.

 

[FoolKiller]

I fear that if Obama is elected he will be assassinated as old habits die hard.

You mean the part where every US president has multiple threats on their life, just most get stopped before they get off the ground? Or is it race related?

Because to be honest, I would be more worried if a homosexual or atheist won the office.

Not to say racial hate doesn't exist, it is just very unpopular now.

 

[Racer21]

Well I am probably basing this assumption on a video on youtube that I saw, featuring an American news report on the KKK. But I had been told by a teacher that Colin Powell could of run for office but did not want to get shot.

 

[McLaren]

From an outsiders point of view to me all the Presidential Candidates seem to have the same sort of political views, friend of Israel, tough on Iran for example. I fear that if Obama is elected he will be assassinated as old habits die hard.

I fear if Obama is elected, I won't be driving ever again with that "Let's tax the oil companies" BS I've been hearing on the radio for days now.

 

[Racer21]

I fear if Obama is elected, I won't be driving ever again with that "Let's tax the oil companies" BS I've been hearing on the radio for days now.

I don't drive but you should try buying petrol in the UK, it is very expensive.

 

[Danoff]

Well I am probably basing this assumption on a video on youtube that I saw, featuring an American news report on the KKK. But I had been told by a teacher that Colin Powell could of run for office but did not want to get shot.

Your first mistake was believing anything from youtube. The second was not realizing that our current president is way more likely to have assassination attempts against him than Obama... at least one that I know of has tried. Same with Clinton, and Bush Sr. and Reagan

I don't drive but you should try buying petrol in the UK, it is very expensive.

Yes, and that price is entirely self-imposed.

BTW - Welcome to GTPlanet

 

[YSSMAN]

Talk of political assassination is bad voodoo here in the US, and at least in my opinion, that's one of several reasons why Clinton lost - She invoked it, and that's something that you never do, particularly when people have consistently compared Obama to RFK. I really doubt that would give any particular candidate reason to, or not to, run for President, because it is a risk that really any political figure has.

Which reminds me:

Ron Paul wants to talk to you about American Politics...

 

[FoolKiller]

Which reminds me:

Ron Paul wants to talk to you about American Politics...

I'll be interested to see how this goes. Right now this just sounds like a You Tube version of his past newsletters.

 

[Sniffs]

I'll be glad when Gen X is considered old enough to qalify for politics. mabey THEN stuff will get done.

 

[FoolKiller]

I'll be glad when Gen X is considered old enough to qalify for politics. mabey THEN stuff will get done.

Considering that Gen X started with those born in 1965, they are old enough.

 

[Danoff]

I'll be glad when Gen X is considered old enough to qalify for politics. mabey THEN stuff will get done.

Like what? The government is already doing too much. If there's something you're not happy about, perhaps you should be taking steps on your own to correct the problem.

 

[Duke]

But I had been told by a teacher that Colin Powell could of run for office but did not want to get shot.

Don't take political advice from teachers that are not in the country in question.

Colin Powell could easily have WON the American presidency - however, he declined to run because, to paraphrase his own words: "I am a soldier, not a politician. I don't think I would be very well suited to the Presidency." Don't forget that for at least part of his career, it was his JOB to get shot at.

 

[Tornado]

Colin Powell could easily have WON the American presidency - however, he declined to run because, to paraphrase his own words: "I am a soldier, not a politician. I don't think I would be very well suited to the Presidency."

I've always been a fan of the saying that Colin Powell is too honest to be a politician.

 

[YSSMAN]

That or hes too smart to do it. Actually, its probably better that way. They say that those who want to be President often do not end up being good ones in the end. Hopefully some day we'll see Powell "pull and Eisenhower" and reluctantly run for office.

Thought:

A guaranteed win for Obama? Powell as VP.

 

[Solid Fro]

What, no Obama/Paul dream team? Or have you fully transitioned from Paul to Obama now?