Obama Presidency Discussion Thread

How would you vote in the 2008 US Presidential Election?

  • Obama-Biden (Democrat)

    Votes: 67 59.3%
  • McCain-Palin (Republican)

    Votes: 18 15.9%
  • Barr-Root (Libertarian)

    Votes: 14 12.4%
  • Nader-Gonzales (Independent-Ecology Party / Peace and Freedom Party)

    Votes: 5 4.4%
  • McKinney-Clemente (Green)

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Baldwin-Castle (Constitution)

    Votes: 7 6.2%
  • Gurney-? (Car & Driver)

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Other...

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    113
  • Poll closed .
Looks like the president has been telling lies about his meeting with health care lobbyists in order to make it sound like he won't be creating more debt.

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/05/15/how-does-it-feel-to-be-at-the-table-now/

How Does It Feel to Be at the Table Now?
Posted by Michael F. Cannon

On Monday, the Obama administration held a well-publicized love-fest with lobbyists for the health care industry. It turns out that rather than a “game-changer,” the event was a fraud. And the industry got burned.

At the time, President Obama called it a “a watershed event in the long and elusive quest for health care reform“:

Over the next 10 years — from 2010 to 2019 — [these industry lobbyists] are pledging to cut the rate of growth of national health care spending by 1.5 percentage points each year — an amount that’s equal to over $2 trillion.

By an amazing coincidence, $2 trillion is just enough to pay for Obama’s proposed government takeover of the health care sector.

Yet The New York Times reports that isn’t the magnitude of spending reductions the lobbyists thought they were supporting:

Hospitals and insurance companies said Thursday that President Obama had substantially overstated their promise earlier this week to reduce the growth of health spending… [C]onfusion swirled in Washington as the companies’ trade associations raced to tamp down angst among members around the country.

Health care leaders who attended the meeting…say they agreed to slow health spending in a more gradual way and did not pledge specific year-by-year cuts…

My initial reaction to Monday’s fairly transparent media stunt was: “I smell a rat. Lobbyists never advocate less revenue for their members. Ever.” The lobbyists are proving me right, albeit slowly. (Take your time, guys. I don’t mind.)

The Obama administration seems a little less clear on that rule. Again, The New York Times:

Nancy-Ann DeParle, director of the White House Office of Health Reform, said “the president misspoke” on Monday and again on Wednesday when he described the industry’s commitment in similar terms. After providing that account, Ms. DeParle called back about an hour later on Thursday and said: “I don’t think the president misspoke. His remarks correctly and accurately described the industry’s commitment.”

How did the industry find itself in this position? Politico reports:

The group of six organizations with a major stake in health care…had been working in secret for several weeks on a savings plan.

But they learned late last week that the White House wanted to go public with the coalition. One health care insider said: “It came together more quickly than it should have.” A health-care lobbyist said the participants weren’t prepared to go live with the news over the weekend, when the news of a deal, including the $2 trillion savings claim, was announced by White House officials to reporters.

Gosh, it’s almost like the White House strong-armed the lobbyists in order to create a false sense of agreement and momentum. Pay no attention to that discord behind the curtain!

At the time, I also hypothesized that this “agreement” was a clever ploy by all parties to pressure a recalcitrant Congressional Budget Office to assume that the Democrat’s reforms would produce budgetary savings. “Otherwise, health care reform is in jeopardy,” says Senate Finance Committee chairman Max Baucus (D-MT). Turns out there was no agreement, and the industry was just being used.

American Hospital Association president Richard Umbdenstock was more right than he knew when he told that group’s 230 members:

There has been a tremendous amount of confusion and frankly a lot of political spin.
 
So is this a fact now that the President lied, or is it an assumption? Isn't there a sentence in the Constitution somewhere that says the Pres gets a slap on the wrist when he lies to the public?
 
It sounds like an assumption at this point, but I agree with the author that it looks like a strong-arm move. What could make it even more awesome is if they all complain at once, and then the President points out that they are lobbyists - and that no one likes them anyway. A federal "Na na na na, na na" moment, if you will.
 
Jeez, Gutzman and The Judge on the same show? Glenn Beck has really outdone himself.
 


I am torn about this. Dealing with the mentally challenged of the Left for eight years gives me pause. I do not want to disrespect the office of the presidency, however, Obama ain't dumb either. He knew what he was going up against, he can't play dumb like he did about the tea parties. For people who get thrown out of the discussion, even by their own school, I'm not surprised this happened.
 
I love how the comments don't actually comment on the video. But somehow, I am not surprised but I am trying to figure out what the guy said around 0:34.
But somehow, I saw this in my recommended videos.
 
I would like to introduce my future senator, Rand Paul.


Now, if Bunning would just decide to drop out I wouldn't feel like I am possibly going to be wasting time and/or money doing everything I can to support this guy.

Just a warning to those who like the current Republicrat system: I may get to be more annoying and vocal in the upcoming year, if that is possible.
 
I would like to introduce my future senator, Rand Paul.


Now, if Bunning would just decide to drop out I wouldn't feel like I am possibly going to be wasting time and/or money doing everything I can to support this guy.

Just a warning to those who like the current Republicrat system: I may get to be more annoying and vocal in the upcoming year, if that is possible.


I was going to post that, but I thought I'd let you do the honors. Anyway, you shoulda done it in the Congress 2010 thread! :D

As for Notre Dame, I can't believe a Catholic school would invite him to speak. If I was the president of the university, I wouldn't be inviting any politician to speak at a graduation ceremony. People spent a quarter million dollars to go to ND, and the last thing they have to listen to is some buffoon whom the student might find morally repugnant. It's pretty ridiculous. I hope the Alumni association or the board of the school does something about it. There's already this guy:



They've proven themselves to be sellouts.
 
As someone who goes to a Catholic college, we've been having to deal with this for the last two months on campus. Frankly, I'm glad I'm done in December. I chose to go to Aquinas because of the academic freedom that they adhered to, one that placed a strong emphasis on reason, and let students decide what they should and should not believe. Much of that has changed in the past year or so due to the new leaders in the administration office, as well as an increased attempt by the church to control their Catholic schools in the United States. Consequently, academic freedoms are being drawn back, speakers and student performances are being postponed or canceled, and some professors are being penalized for some of the material that they have been teaching.

Quite frankly, what the pro-life students have been doing on campus has been incredibly offensive, and the attacks on moderates and other pro-choice kids has really gotten out of hand. Fighting between the theology and women's studies departments, while partially hilarious, comes off as juvenile and really ends up pissing off even more people. Its been enough to make a few of my professors contemplate leaving the school at the end of the next academic year, unless changes are made, and that is really disappointing.

As someone who will be an alumni soon, as of right now I'd hope that Aquinas isn't expecting me to give them money. Until they revert back to the way things were, I have little reason to support my school.
 
How can they call themselves a catholic college when they employ faculty that is pro-abortion?
 
Anyway, you shoulda done it in the Congress 2010 thread! :D
I don't know how I missed it. I have no clue what I was doing Friday to make me overlook that thread.

Ah well, I'll move this topic to there.

As for Notre Dame, I can't believe a Catholic school would invite him to speak
Considering my wife's church fired a woman for being photographed for being at a Hilary rally and the connected elementary school has had a 20% drop in students since hiring a non-Catholic principal I agree that it was, at a minimum, a politically and financially stupid thing for the university to do.
 
Obama wants new CAFE standards? Here is the first car under that restriction:

GPA02-09_US_Secret_Service_press_release_2009_Limousine_Page_2_Image.jpg
 
It's kind of hilarious that the President's car wears the badge of a bankrupt company.
 
How can they call themselves a catholic college when they employ faculty that is pro-abortion?

That's the thing, we really haven't been much of a "Catholic" school since the early '90s. Ever since they started reaching out to a wider variety of students and faculty, the look and feel of the school has changed entirely. I chose to go to Aquinas mainly because of the smaller class sizes, the academic freedoms, and the wide variety of views that were offered in the classroom.

Still, I don't think the term "pro-abortion" is really an adequate descriptor for a lot of people. While I am pro-choice (as is much of the faculty), I don't think any of us are 100% "pro-abortion." Like Obama talked about in the ND Speech, there are pragmatic solutions that can be reached that attempt to limit the number of unwanted pregnancies, attempt to turn more people away from the option of abortion, but also keep away from trampling women's rights at the same time.

=-=-=-=

RE: New CAFE Standards

In a strange twist, the Auto Alliance supports the proposed change. But, I understand their reasoning; Having only one standard to meet in the US makes the design and production of an automobile a bit easier, and in the long run, probably cheaper (not having to produce different models for different regions).

Hmmm, maybe I'll get my turbo Camaro after all?
 
RE: New CAFE Standards

In a strange twist, the Auto Alliance supports the proposed change. But, I understand their reasoning; Having only one standard to meet in the US makes the design and production of an automobile a bit easier, and in the long run, probably cheaper (not having to produce different models for different regions).

Hmmm, maybe I'll get my turbo Camaro after all?
I've never been sure if federal emissions regulations are even Constitutional. Not that it would stop our current federal government.

If the industry wanted a a wider standard they would have set an industry standard that prevented the need for any regulation.

Which brings me to another point: Why have they been opposed to this kind of thing up until now? In the past every time someone mentioned increase emissions standards they got all in a fuss and mentioned the cost we were looking at. Now, after the government has a lot of controlling interest, they are suddenly on board? It sounds fishy to me.


Regarding this, I saw this morning that the new standards would mean an estimated $1300 more per car. The EPA brushed that asides saying we would make that up in three years. Their math has a problem though, as they only accounted for people who paid full price upfront. It does not take into account the additional interest added to the overall cost that a ~3%-5% loan would add to that $1300.

Of course, it also ignores the fact that the $1300 and interest rate will likely be more as the Fed slowly begins to attempt to pay off this growing deficit.

It would be interesting to see the total cost to the American people that the cumulative total of government policies have caused over the last year. Of course, it would be impossible to calculate accurately as by the time it was worked out a few hundred billion more would be added.
 
I've never been sure if federal emissions regulations are even Constitutional.

I'm just curious but why? The Constitution doesn't even mention automobiles as far as I know or even the environment.
 
I'm just curious but why? The Constitution doesn't even mention automobiles as far as I know or even the environment.
You answered your own question:

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
 
Can't states just choose whether or they follow the emissions standards? And if they don't they just lose federal funding?
 
Can't states just choose whether or they follow the emissions standards? And if they don't they just lose federal funding?
It is an industry regulation, which grants no funding to the states either way. So, states can do whatever they want, but if the industry doesn't meet federal standards they are still breaking the law.

Similarly, some states legalize medical marijuana, the federal government does not, so use of medical marijuana may be allowed in your state, but you are violating federal law and can be brought up on federal drug charges.

This is where issues like this get all confusing when federal government oversteps state government authority. These aren't issues that states get any funding for, like schools.


All that said, I hate federal funding of state issues because it is just federal government using a backdoor to regulate state governments.
 
If the industry wanted a a wider standard they would have set an industry standard that prevented the need for any regulation.

I think that assumes that the industry wants to change - normally, it doesn't. In this situation, with thirteen states looking to adopt the California standard, in addition to the EPA and DOT regulations, it was due time to make a single standard across the board. I agree that we shouldn't have to legislate fuel economy, it has always seemed backward to me. The problem is, fuel prices are still too low for people to (presumably) make the decision to buy a newer, more efficient, vehicle. In that sense, a gas tax seems like a better idea. I just get the feeling that no one in Congress would be willing to fight for it instead.

RE:

Why have they been opposed to this kind of thing up until now? In the past every time someone mentioned increase emissions standards they got all in a fuss and mentioned the cost we were looking at. Now, after the government has a lot of controlling interest, they are suddenly on board? It sounds fishy to me.

Agreed. I'm not sure if it is the government's involvement with Chrysler and GM, but considering they make up a very small part of the group supporting this bill, there must be something else. Keep in mind that Daimler, BMW, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Volkswagen, Porsche, Jaguar/Land Rover (Tata), Mazda, and Ford are a part of the group as well, none of which have received any cash (that I know of) from the Government.

Honestly, I think they're looking at it kinda as a pay-to-play thing. We're still one of the largest markets for new car sales, and to actually think of Toyota threatening to leave the market if rules are too hard, well thats financial suicide for them. I think at this point, they realize that some of the market has changed, and does want a more efficient vehicle. At the same time, having to meet only one standard is easier for their engineering departments as well.

The only problem is the added cost, which I think is a bit of hooey, but we'll see. I wonder what they'll charge to take some of the weight out of the cars and to add an extra-tall final gear?
 
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I think that assumes that the industry wants to change - normally, it doesn't. In this situation, with thirteen states looking to adopt the California standard, in addition to the EPA and DOT regulations, it was due time to make a single standard across the board. I agree that we shouldn't have to legislate fuel economy, it has always seemed backward to me. The problem is, fuel prices are still too low for people to (presumably) make the decision to buy a newer, more efficient, vehicle. In that sense, a gas tax seems like a better idea. I just get the feeling that no one in Congress would be willing to fight for it instead.
Taxing fuel prices to affect markets ad industry is worse than a direct regulation (not to mention just as unconstitutional) as it not only affects the industry targeted but many other things as well. A fuel tax that is steep enough to change driving habits long-term would raise prices on everything, not just cars, and hit the average citizen in the pocket at both the pump and the register.

Agreed. I'm not sure if it is the government's involvement with Chrysler and GM, but considering they make up a very small part of the group supporting this bill, there must be something else. Keep in mind that Daimler, BMW, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Volkswagen, Porsche, Jaguar/Land Rover (Tata), Mazda, and Ford are a part of the group as well, none of which have received any cash (that I know of) from the Government.
Toyota is already on its way to doing this, or at least pretending to, and with VW offering up diesel models as much as they have been they could get there relatively quick. I'm not sure how the Porsche/VW situation will play into this.

And that brings up an entirely new situation. How does this affect specialty makers? Certain companies exist solely to build gas guzzling fun cars.

Honestly, I think they're looking at it kinda as a pay-to-play thing. We're still one of the largest markets for new car sales, and to actually think of Toyota threatening to leave the market if rules are too hard, well thats financial suicide for them. I think at this point, they realize that some of the market has changed, and does want a more efficient vehicle. At the same time, having to meet only one standard is easier for their engineering departments as well.
They don't have to leave the market, or threaten to. All they have to do is call out this administration for their meddling in private industry and throw up one lawsuit to block it. If some of the biggest industries in this country are willing to just cave at the whim of this administration then we can kiss what's left of our free market goodbye.

If it is easier on their engineers then why don't they just meet the most strict standard on their own? Doing so would have put them above all others and they would have this supposedly easier and cheaper process in place. Of course, it could be that cars under the strict standard suck and to sell more they need the lower standard cars where available. It makes no sense for them to agree now out of the blue, but I do see where it will make all cars suck.

The only problem is the added cost, which I think is a bit of hooey, but we'll see. I wonder what they'll charge to take some of the weight out of the cars and to add an extra-tall final gear?
I think the bigger issue is trucks and SUVs that are dragging the average down. Those will require more than just some weight reduction and tuning, particularly if you want them to still be useful as work machines.

I like Jalopnik's take on it:
http://jalopnik.com/5261163/obama-kills-fun-cars-unveils-355-mpg-fuel-economy-plan-by-2016

Obama Kills Fun Cars, Unveils 35.5 MPG Fuel Economy Plan By 2016
By Matt Hardigree, 12:40 PM on Tue May 19 2009,

President_Obama_Emissions.jpg

President Obama and distinguished hostages auto execs just unveiled new emissions and fuel economy standards. The result? They've just killed all the fun cars.

In his opening, President Obama framed the historic moment by pointing out the gathering of auto executives, governors, legislators, environmental activists and others historically at odds with each other. He failed to mention the reason everyone is so happy to get together is that he has a gun to their heads in the form of government funding.

The goal of a new national standard is a mixed bag for automakers. On one hand, lawsuits and state standards are being dropped and the EPA and Department of Transportation standards are being combined. Obama also mentioned the increase in fuel economy will provide a savings for consumers over the life of a car and save 1.8 billion gallons of fuel.

On the other hand, helping determine what automakers should build does not create demand. Lots of fuel-efficient cars are out there today but most consumers aren't interested. CAFE doesn't deal with the demand side of the equation. We can continue forcing automakers to build fuel-efficient cars that nobody wants to buy, but unless we're willing to enact a higher fuel tax (with obvious progressive checks in place to deal with lower-income car owners) to out-price SUVs and pickup trucks, consumers won't change their habits.

But the details? Ah yes, the details — a 5% annual increase in average fuel economy from 2011, culminating in 35.5 MPG in 2016. The breakout will be 42 MPG for cars and 27 MPG for trucks. So basically, unless you're an automaker building an appliance, get out of the game. There's no room for a Corvette ZR1 or rear-wheel-drive power wagon. Nope, it's all going to be Priuses and Fusion hybrids from here on out. We'd move to Canada except we're assuming it'd be worse up there. Maybe Mexico is the place to go.


And while I am pulling saved articles from my reader.

Here is an opinion piece on OBAMA'S CHANGE(TM).

Dick Cheney is becoming Obama’s enabler
By: Gene Healy
Examiner Columnist | 5/18/09 6:06 PM

Dick Cheney’s “Shut Up and Listen” tour continued last week on CBS’s “Face the Nation.” There, the former veep reiterated his favorite theme: Obama is putting America at risk by “taking down a lot of those policies we put in place that kept the nation safe.”

What in the world is Cheney talking about? Granted, Obama’s anti-terror policies are clouded by rhetorical “Hope” and euphemism, and the new administration is less given to chest-thumping than its predecessor. Otherwise, Obama’s approach to terrorism is virtually identical to Bush/Cheney’s.

Whatever you think the right policy is regarding enemy combatants, warrantless wiretapping, and “enhanced interrogation,” the differences between Obama and Bush are far more stylistic than substantive.

Let’s look at Obama’s policies in those three key areas:

“Enemy Combatants”: Actually, there’s no such thing as an “enemy combatant” anymore: the Obama administration has, with great fanfare, abandoned the term. We can call terrorist suspects our “special friends” if we like, but the Obama team has fought hard in court to retain the same powers that Bush exercised.

Obama plans to close Guantanamo, but his lawyers have insisted (unsuccessfully, thus far) that the president can seize suspects anywhere in the world, and hold them at Afghanistan’s Bagram base indefinitely, without meaningful judicial review.

Though candidate Obama repeatedly railed against Bush’s military commissions, on Friday, President Obama announced that modified commissions were ideal for trying terrorist suspects. National Review’s Andrew McCarthy was outraged by the president’s disingenuousness: “Obama is trying to bluff the country into thinking he’s engaged in a major overhaul when it’s really a tweak.”

Surveillance: Here too, the promised “Change” is less than meets the eye. Obama sold out on surveillance well before he was inaugurated, breaking his campaign promise to filibuster any law immunizing telecom companies that cooperated with Bush’s illegal wiretapping program.

As president, Obama has gone further still than Bush, arguing in court that, as the Electronic Frontier Foundation has put it, “the government can never be sued for surveillance that violates federal privacy statutes.” Yet Cheney insists Obama hasn’t gone far enough over to the “dark side.” You just can’t please the guy.

Interrogation: In the first week of his presidency, Obama swore his administration would follow the Army Field Manual in interrogations. A welcome change, until you looked at the fine print, which allows the CIA to adopt other tactics if the president chooses.

If Obama sets the CIA loose, they still won’t be allowed to waterboard. But only three prisoners were subjected to that technique, and none since 2003. Which points up a weird disconnect in conservative arguments about torture: Folks like Cheney insist that these techniques were vital, but defend themselves by maintaining they were rarely used. Has Bush/Cheney timidity kept us at risk for the last six years?

Bush 43’s defenders make the opposite claim, insisting that a war footing, warrantless wiretapping, and aggressive interrogation “kept us safe” from further terror attacks. There are abundant reports to the contrary.

FBI officials scornfully referred to “leads” generated by Bush’s secret wiretapping program as “calls to Pizza Hut,” and a CIA operative told the Washington Post that, thanks to torture, they’d “spent millions of dollars chasing false alarms.” Lacking access to secret evidence, ordinary citizens are hard-pressed to sort out these claims.

Even so, we went more than seven years without a foreign terrorist attack on US soil after the attempted World Trade Center bombing in 1993. Should we therefore conclude that Bill Clinton’s policies kept us safe all that time? Or could it be that Al Qaeda terrorism isn’t quite the “existential threat” that the Right breathlessly insists it is?

Either way, the claim that Obama has abandoned “essential tools” in the fight against terror is wearing pretty thin. Real civil libertarians aren’t fooled by Obama’s “kinder, gentler” rhetoric, but Obama knows that civil libertarians are a miniscule voting block. His aim is to convince Democratic voters that he’s kept his promises to change Bush’s draconian approach to the war on terror.

In this, Dick Cheney is an enormous asset to the president. As Obama quietly adopts the Bush policies, Cheney gives him cover by loudly insisting that there’s a meaningful difference here.

It’s an odd role for a man who says he wants to set the record straight.

Examiner columnist Gene Healy is a vice president at the Cato Institute and the author of The Cult of the Presidency.
 
Oh oh, maybe the automakers are going to hit the government with one of these "screw you, we're not doing it" things. Like, they agree to these things and then completely ignore it, instead offering cars that the people want, and not that the government wants. Maybe in a bid to illustrate how the government is having its way with private business they're going to sacrifice themselves to make their point, and give the People and States more reason to rise up.

/crazy idea
 
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Oh, here we go, more of the government punishing the peopel who didn't screw up thier financial status.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30829066//

NYT: Responsible card users may pay more
Return of fees, higher rates for ‘deadbeats’ who pay off balance, on time
By Andrew Martin
The New York Times
updated 4:36 p.m. ET, Tues., May 19, 2009

Credit cards have long been a very good deal for people who pay their bills on time and in full. Even as card companies imposed punitive fees and penalties on those late with their payments, the best customers racked up cash-back rewards, frequent-flier miles and other perks in recent years.

Now Congress is moving to limit the penalties on riskier borrowers, who have become a prime source of billions of dollars in fee revenue for the industry. And to make up for lost income, the card companies are going after those people with sterling credit.

Banks are expected to look at reviving annual fees, curtailing cash-back and other rewards programs and charging interest immediately on a purchase instead of allowing a grace period of weeks, according to bank officials and trade groups.

“It will be a different business,” said Edward L. Yingling, the chief executive of the American Bankers Association, which has been lobbying Congress for more lenient legislation on behalf of the nation’s biggest banks. “Those that manage their credit well will in some degree subsidize those that have credit problems.”

As they thin their ranks of risky cardholders to deal with an economic downturn, major banks including American Express, Citigroup, Bank of America and a long list of others have already begun to raise interest rates, and some have set their sights on consumers who pay their bills on time. The legislation scheduled for a Senate vote on Tuesday does not cap interest rates, so banks can continue to lift them, albeit at a slower pace and with greater disclosure.

“There will be one-size-fits-all pricing, and as a result, you’ll see the industry will be more egalitarian in terms of its revenue base,” said David Robertson, publisher of the Nilson Report, which tracks the credit card business.

People who routinely pay off their credit card balances have been enjoying the equivalent of a free ride, he said, because many have not had to pay an annual fee even as they collect points for air travel and other perks.

“Despite all the terrible things that have been said, you’re making out like a bandit,” he said. “That’s a third of credit card customers, 50 million people who have gotten a great deal.”

Robert Hammer, an industry consultant, said the legislation might have the broad effect of encouraging card issuers to become ever more reliant on fees from marginal customers as well as creditworthy cardholders — “deadbeats” in industry parlance, because they generate scant fee revenue.

“They aren’t charities. They have shareholders to report to,” he said, referring to banks and credit card companies. “Whatever is left in the model to work from, they will start to maneuver.”


Banks used to give credit cards only to the best consumers and charge them a flat interest rate of about 20 percent and an annual fee. But with the relaxing of usury laws in some states, and the ready availability of credit scores in the late 1980s, banks began offering cards with a variety of different interest rates and fees, tying the pricing to the credit risk of the cardholder.

That helped push interest rates down for many consumers, but they soared for riskier cardholders, who became a significant source of revenue for the industry. The recent economic downturn challenged that formula, and banks started dumping the riskiest customers and lowering their credit limits in earnest as the recession accelerated. Now, consumers who pay their bills off every month are issuing a rising chorus of complaints about shortened grace periods, new hidden fees and higher interest rates.

The industry says that the proposals will force banks to issue fewer credit cards at greater cost to the current cardholders.

Citigroup and Capital One referred comments to the A.B.A. Discover and American Express declined to comment. Bank of America intends to “provide credit to the largest number of creditworthy customers possible, while also remaining prudent in our lending practices,” said Betty Riess, a spokeswoman. Together with JPMorgan Chase, which has said the changes will force it to limit credit availability and raise fees, these banks account for 80 percent of the credit card industry.

Banks are not required to publicly reveal how much money they make from penalty interest rates and fees, though government officials and industry consultants estimate they constitute a growing portion of revenue.

For instance, Mr. Hammer said the amount of money generated by penalty fees like late charges and exceeding credit limits had increased by about $1 billion annually in recent years, and should top $20 billion this year.

Regulations passed by the Federal Reserve in December to curb unexpected interest charges would cost issuers about $12 billion a year in lost fees and income, according to industry calculations. The legislation before Congress would build on the Fed rules and would further squeeze banks’ revenue when they are being hit with a high rate of credit card charge-offs. The government’s stress tests showed that the nation’s 19 biggest banks will take on $82 billion in credit card losses in the next two years.

A 2005 report by the Government Accountability Office estimated that 70 percent of card issuers’ revenue came from interest charges, and the portion from penalty rates appeared to be growing. The remainder came from fees on cardholders as well as retailers for processing transactions. Many retailers are angry at the high fees and plan to pass them on to shoppers once the Congressional legislation takes effect.

Consumer advocates say they have little sympathy for credit card issuers, arguing that they have made billions in recent years with unfair and sometimes deceptive practices.

“The business model will change because the business model doesn’t work for the public,” said Gail Hillebrand, a senior lawyer at Consumers Union.

“In order to do business under the new rules, they’ll actually have to tell you how much it’s going to cost,” she said.

With many consumers mired in debt and angry at what they consider gouging by credit card companies, the issue of credit card reform has broad populist appeal. Members of Congress and the Obama administration have seized on the discontent to push reforms that the industry succeeded in tamping down when the economy was flying high.


Austan Goolsbee, an economic adviser to President Obama, said that while the credit card industry had the right to make a reasonable profit as long as its contracts were in plain language and rule-breakers were held accountable, its current practices were akin to “a series of carjackings.”

“The card industry is giving the argument that if you didn’t want to be carjacked, why weren’t you locking your doors or taking a different road?” Mr. Goolsbee said.

This article, "Credit Card Industry Aims to Profit From Sterling Payers," originally appeared in the New York Times.
So, for all of you who have used credit cards to your benefit because you don't actualy spend more than you make: Screw you sayeth the government.

Come join me and my debit cards. If they charge me for using that as a credit card then I am going back to all cash, all the time.
 
Oh, here we go, more of the government punishing the people who didn't screw up their financial status.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30829066//


So, for all of you who have used credit cards to your benefit because you don't actualy spend more than you make: Screw you sayeth the government.

I say BS

Come join me and my debit cards. If they charge me for using that as a credit card then I am going back to all cash, all the time.

Maybe that was the aim? What are the effects of people using more cash?
 
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