Official D-Box motion information thread

[Mayaman]

This thread is to answer questions about D-Box and to educate people about what Dbox is and what it does.

If you have any questions post them here. I have some questions that a fellow sim racer sent me and I'm going to answer below.

Q: How does D-box compare to a solution like Simx?

A: SimX is awesome, lets get that out of the way. I don't buy into the whole "The seat and pedals don't move together" argument. In my opinion, a good motion sim is about tricking your brain. And both SimX and Dbox do that, regardless of the method they use.

Q: Does D-Box need its own software?

A: D-Box has it own software interface that is FREE and is downloadable right from their webpage. Just double click the icon, select the game you want to play and go. You can edit the motion profiles right in the software, even while the sim is still running. Its a super easy interface and automatically detects when you have D-Box enabled games installed.

Q: Does D-Box work natively with iRacing (and other games)

A: Not only does D-Box work with iRacing, it works with pretty much every racing game released in the last 10 years. The great thing about D-Box is that it comes with native support right from the game, no hacks needed. D-Box has the largest list of supported titles by far at over 73. This includes arcade racers as well as flight sims and first person shooters.

Q: How configurable compared to a product like sim commander which does allow for quite a deep and granular level of tuning.
A: D-Box software is extremely easy to configure per sim. Its also very detailed. There are settings for engine, transmission, bumps, road surface, suspension travel, severity of movement, and tactile cues of all sorts. D-Box doesn't only do motion, it also does the best tactile you'll ever feel. from the slightest road irregularity, pebbles, bumps, rumble strips. Its as light or as thunderous as you want it. First time I fired mine up I made the mistake of turning it all the way up, I shook pictures from my walls!

Q: Is it a more immersive solution?

A: This is completely subjective. Every person feels each motion simulator differently. What people tend to forget is that the most important component in your motion sim isn't hardware, it's YOUR BRAIN! The one thing that D-Box has over all other motion solutions though is its amazing tactile. It really has to be experienced to realize how good it is. You don't need any amps, transducers, or any additional equipment or setup. It just works!

Q: Is it more configurable?

A: It is neither more or less really, all the simulators cover pretty much the same telemetry. The difference is the D-Box built in tactile which no one else has.

Q: Is it more durable?

A: I cannot vouch for the other products but I can say that D-Box is absolutely bullet proof. These same actuators are used in commercial movie theaters for thousands upon thousands of hours of abuse during movies in Imax and Dbox theaters all over the world 7 days a week, 365 days a year for years. They are as reliable a product as you can buy for your home. I've been hammering mine non stop for three years without a single issue.

Q: Is it more silent?

A: Yes, the D-Box is virtually silent. The actuators make no noise at all. The only noise will be from your house shaking to the ground if you turn the tactile up to high.

Q: Better longevity?

A: Again, I can't speak to the other solutions but as I mention above, the D-Box system is a commercial grade system you can buy for your home, its as simple as that. If it can survive thousands of hours in a movie theater, amusement park, it will survive whatever you can throw at it at home.

Q: Anything else?

A: To put everything in a nutshell. With a Dbox SRP system you can literally go from un-boxing to racing in under an hour if you have already done the planning of putting your rig on a flat base, its as easy as that. 80/20 works best and will yield the best results.

The beauty of the SRP D-Box system is that it will accommodate itself to almost any rig, and I'm not exaggerating. You got a F1 rig, no problem. Obutto? No problem. Vision Racer, Rseat, hell even if you have an office chair or a Lazy boy recliner, no problem, you can use it as a sim racer with the D-Box SRP. Easily the most configurable and easiest to setup motion simulator. Also the beauty of it is is as you upgrade your rig or change rigs, its easy to just unbolt your rig, attach the new rig, presto, motion simulator.

On top of the motion you have the incredible tactile provided by the same actuators. They really are a little marvel of engineering.

You've got robust build quality and proven commercial toughness.

If you have any other questions please post them in this thread.

 

[HoiHman]

I did send you a PM about D-box a couple of weeks ago, but never got an answer

You might have missed it

 

[tomcat66]

Thank you Mayaman for all those Information. The Problem with Motion sims is that there are so few to test yourself for comparison. And of course every Company tells you that their product is the only good one.

 

[Mayaman]

I did send you a PM about D-box a couple of weeks ago, but never got an answer

You might have missed it

Sorry my friend, can you resend it? I don't see it in my inbox. I may have done a mass deletion of old stuff and accidentally deleted yours.

Thank you Mayaman for all those Information. The Problem with Motion sims is that there are so few to test yourself for comparison. And of course every Company tells you that their product is the only good one.

Well I can tell you that no other motion system available to normal people replicates the suspension of an auto better than D-Box. Also D-Box provides amazing tactile to go along with the motion. Its bullet proof reliability wise. Its tiny compared to other solutions, literally no bigger than your rig.

There are tons of reasons why D-Box rocks, this isn't hype. Once I have my sim room set up, anyone in the Connecticut area will be welcome to come by and try my GT and Formula 1 setup.

 

[HoiHman]

No problem, i just send it again

 

[Mayaman]

PM responded to my friend.

Let me know if any of you has any more questions about D-Box.

 

[HoiHman]

Thx

 

[AussieStig]

Hey Mayaman,



I was lucky enough to go to the SImExpo yesterday at the Nurburgring and I got to try out both D-Box setups. I met your Canadian mate and had a good chat with him. One word to sum up the experience''AWESOME" The guys on the stand were very accommodating and even gave me the opportunity to pick my favourite car and track combo, give you three guesses what they were

Enjoy my video guys and gals: my excuses for my not so tidy driving



Cheers AussieStig

 

[Henry III]

@AussieStig that machine sounds so good! What sim is that?

 

[AussieStig]

@AussieStig that machine sounds so good! What sim is that?

Hey mate, it's iRacing on 3 curved LG ultra HD screens, the car sounded awesome.

Cheers, AussieStig

 

[Henry III]

Hey mate, it's iRacing on 3 curved LG ultra HD screens, the car sounded awesome.

Cheers, AussieStig

Very cool!

@Mayaman very informative post. Silly question: Is Dbox compatible with consoles?

 

[Henry III]

@AussieStig I just wathced your clip again with proper sound turned up to the max at home. I get goosebumps man.
What car were you driving? So lucky indeed...

 

[Mayaman]

Sorry guys, been really busy lately. D-Box is PC only.

Thanks for the video Aussie! Yeah tuned correctly Dbox is amazing. If anyone is interested in obtaining a 2x or 4x just PM me.

Cheers

edit: Oh yeah, now you can tell your friend at VR just how worth the deal I have for him is. LOL

 

[LogiForce]

Just a question that has been bugging me. I've given Henk some advice via PM as to what I think would be better, but I just wanted to put the same question to you.

As you know there are basically 3 things you can buy for your rig to add movement or vibrations to communicate with you.

1. High Frequency Vibrations - Tactile Transducers
2. Mid Frequency Vibrations - Short motion blasts via SimX or DBox
3. Low Frequency Vibrations (almost continuous) - GS-4 seat

The question is as follows, and I am sure it will bring forth a discussion.

Which of these 3 points do you think will benefit the driver the most in terms of usable feedback/information?
I mean this not in terms of pure immersion, even though getting the right info does trick your brain and immerses you. I just mean this as really usable feedback.

 

[Mayaman]

To the two chaps who messaged me about Dbox the last couple of days, I promise I will message you tomorrow. Been having some brutally long work days and need to catch up on sleep.

Logi I'll also touch on this tomorrow, just got home and have to be back at work in 7 hours.

Zzzzzz

Edit: one thing Logi, Dbox transducers do the entire vibration spectrum.

 

[LogiForce]

To the two chaps who messaged me about Dbox the last couple of days, I promise I will message you tomorrow. Been having some brutally long work days and need to catch up on sleep.

Logi I'll also touch on this tomorrow, just got home and have to be back at work in 7 hours.

Zzzzzz

Edit: one thing Logi, Dbox transducers do the entire vibration spectrum.

The last thing is impossible for D-Box in my eyes, as the system can't put a continues strain on the body with little changes in pressure (that's what I mean by low frequency).
Then again, I could be utterly wrong of course. But I just don't see how it can offer what the GS-4 seat can.

For now have a good snooze, mate. We will talk some more tomorrow.

 

[LeMansAid]

The last thing is impossible for D-Box in my eyes, as the system can't put a continues strain on the body with little changes in pressure (that's what I mean by low frequency).

You are right, and I think it's more about adding as many complimentary factors together as possible. Trying reproduce sustained forces with only one type of "trick" ends up looking like this:



With the addition of a GS4 seat, the use of gravity would not have to be so extreme to achieve the same impression of sustained force. And that's all we can do really, try and give ourselves the best impression, and successfully suspend disbelief.

 

[LogiForce]

Heck, he still can't reproduce it as he constantly hits the end-stops with that type of actuators.

Personally I think the best setup, in my opinion, is currently as follows.

- You get a 80/20 frame so you can adapt all of the following things, plus be future proof as it is like Lego.
- You than put it on 4 actuators from D-Box.
- You use 4 Buttkicker LFE transducers hooked up to a Behringer iNuke with DSP on each corner, driven by Simvibe software. You use the DSP's delay function to mimick the rough distance to each wheel from the LFE placement on your rig. Due to the delayed firing of each transducer you get a sense of direction as well as scale of the car you're driving. Becomes even more immers with a VR headset.
- Finally you install, with some clever thinking, the SimXperience traction loss system.
- After that is done you install the SimXperience GS-4 seat. No need to hook up the transducer, unless you wish to reproduce farting vibrations. In a real car the only vibrations coming through the seat is that what is transferred through the chassis.
- Lastly you could mount an extra mini-LFE on... pedals, wheel and shifter. However, do this only for engine and gearbox vibration reproduction in the case that 'chassis-mode' fails to transmit this accurately enough. Do note that the iNuke DSP amps have an EQ functions to aid in 'flavoring' vibrations to your desire.

As far as my sim racing gear of choice goes. Since we are talking anyway...

- SimXperience Accuforce
- Fanatec Clubsport Shifter Sequential
- ARC Carbon Pedals or Heusinkveld Engineering Ultimate Pedals
- Derek Spear Design Hydraulic Handbrake, or if you dislike the risk of brake fluid... Fanatec Clubsport Handbrake.
- Sim Racing Hardware Control R buttonbox

The PC side of things:

- Oculus Rift VR Headset
- Nvidia GTX 980 4-way SLI
- 16GB of system memory or more
- The fastest CPU our friends at Intel have at the moment
- Motherboard that fits my I/O demands (i.e. SATA ports, USB 3.1 ports... Etc)
- Asus Xonar Audio card or maybe even some pro-audio card for musicians.
- Monitor is undecided. Probably an IPS panel until OLED gets here. Nothing bigger than 32" I think, maybe 4k. Also make it triples.
- Mechanical keyboard and a nice mouse that is comfortable for the person using it the most.


Anyways... that would be my 'dream rig'.

 

[Mayaman]

Gentlemen, I think we're a little confused here. When I said that Dbox can reproduce the high, mid, and low ends of "vibration" or tactile, it can. I have a GS4 and it produces no vibration what so ever. A simXeperience produces no vibration or tactile what so ever.

Dbox is the only solution which provides motion AND tactile. The Dbox tactile ranges from the smalled pebble to the most thunderous crash, and everything inbetween.

That is what I meant by the spectrum of "tactile or vibration" Nothing else.

You don't need any other buttkickers or any of that stuff with Dbox gentlemen, the Dbox does all of that. It would be a waste of money and adding complexity where it is not needed.

My current project is a 4x Dbox with a GS4 seat for continuous G force and some way some how trying to get Berney to help me design a traction loss that will fit this new 2 person rig. We'll see if that happens.

But again, the Dbox makes buttkickers and the like obsolete, you don't need them.

 

[Nick Moxley]

Um, NO way are actuator's going to be able to reproduce the amount of vibration's a Pair of Gamer 2's can produce when mounted to a "socket on the seat"

 

[Mayaman]

LOL OK. Just an FYI, I don't think a couple of seat mounted rumble devices can actually shake pictures from your walls. The Dbox can do that as it did with me. It almost got me evicted.

I'm not saying that tactile seat mounted doesn't have a place. But I think you're not understanding the power and positional ability of a 4x Dbox system.

Not to mention, the ability to convey actual road surface, the Dbox will utterly destroy a seat mounted solution. You can actually feel what each tire is doing, this isn't fantasy, its what Dbox does. that is why I mention it is a complete solution because its not just motion.

Its not about rumbling the teeth out of your head. Its about giving accurate road surface, transmission, tire, engine, chassis feedback.

These aren't SCN5 actuators, these are purpose built to do just this, Motion and Tactile.

 

[LogiForce]

I see. We just misunderstood there. It seems your setup isn't that far off from what I have in mind.
But you need to have that ability to rumble the teeth out of your head. A cobblestone road is a prime example of how violent road feedback can be, at least in real life. Haven't seen a good cobblestone road in-game yet though.

 

[Mayaman]

Hehe, trust me, you can set the Dbox per sim to do what ever you want. You want teeth chattering, you got it, but believe me, you'll turn it down after a bit as you'll grow tired of your organs being liquefied.

 

[LogiForce]

Hehe, trust me, you can set the Dbox per sim to do what ever you want. You want teeth chattering, you got it, but believe me, you'll turn it down after a bit as you'll grow tired of your organs being liquefied.

How does it feel it terms of sizing the virtual car? Can you delay those vibrations per actuator? While still maintaining the normal road camber movements and all that without delay that is.

 

[Mayaman]

The way it works is that you can adjust rebound, initial travel, intensity, then from there you can set it up for different components like tranny, tires, chassis. If you want as close an approximation of how a real suspension feels, then Dbox is what you want. Does it move as much as some others, of course not, but that is not what Dbox is about.

People get confused and say "This only moves three inches it isn't real". Well I've tracked my car and I don't ever remember my car dipping more than three inches in real life either lol. What Dbox does it try and replicate the suspension feelings, this of course won't give you any sustained G at all, that is why I have the GS4 seat.

The great thing about Dbox though is that coupled with its quick powerful motion cues is the tactile feedback. If you rub the right front tire, guess what, only the right front tire will rumble and it will rumble based on the telemetry, not some canned rumble effect. It will be as strong as the game tells the Dbox. You can then fine tune from this.

You can have different Dbox profiles for Different cars, tracks, weather if you wish.

No simulator is the end all be all and no simulator is going to replicate real world 100%, none of them do. Like I said your brain is the most important component of any simulator system!

Also, Dbox works directly with the companies who make the games to fine tune the telemetry output. They started with movies and have moved into games the last couple of years really, its still a new division, very small. But growing all the time.

The Dbox to me, with a GS4 seat is the best option for me. YMMV.

My next simulator will blow you away. Stay tuned.

 

[LogiForce]

I guess you did not get my point on how to use delay to mimic wheel the distance and time it takes for a vibrations to travel from a tyre to your seat.

I did get the necessary information of what you said, and I conclude that it is still better to use tactile transducers to produce the vibrations. There is just more control to be had.
So personally I would only use D-Box for weight transfer and elevation changes.

Either that or I need to build a rig the size of an average car and put the actuators in the respective tyre positions, but for that I don't have the room. So I need to trick my brain by fooling it in such a way that it thinks the vibrations enter the chasis from much further away. It is basically a mix of the visuals you see and when your body senses the vibrations from a certain direction.
For example. Dirt 2, Baya stage and driving a truck. When you go over the jump the tactile transducers have to fire differently depending on landing angle, but not only that. The tactile transducers for chassis mode are often put near the pedals and the rear of your seat, but the in such a truck the front-right and rear left and right tyres are much further away from your seating position. So there is quite some delay in real life between the vibration entering the chassis at each wheel and you sensing it.
This is what you have to reproduce in order to properly trick your brain in thinking it is 'real', and especially into tricking the brain that the size of your vehicle is correct. Which becomes crucial in a virtual reality setup. I mean, when you drive a Cadillac but feel the vibrations as instantly as in a Peel P50... your brain will know subconsciously something is off.

 

[Mayaman]

My friend, the distance traveled is just so close that you're not going to notice a difference. Trust me, it feels like a real suspension. You're not going to think you're in a single seat simulator. But then again, the proof is in the pudding. Once I'm done I'll invite you to come take a vaca to Connecticut and see for yourself.

Not using the Dbox tactile would be insanely dumb. LOL

I'm not being a jerk, I have a few years of using this equipment. I know what it can and cannot do. I'm not blowing smoke up your arse. hehe

 

[LeMansAid]

I see. We just misunderstood there.

No, you were fine. If you hadn't explained what you meant by low, medium and high frequency it would have been confusing, but you did.

I'm still left wondering about using a GS4, D-Box, traction loss, and a seat mover........

People get confused and say "This only moves three inches it isn't real". Well I've tracked my car and I don't ever remember my car dipping more than three inches in real life either lol. What Dbox does it try and replicate the suspension feelings, this of course won't give you any sustained G at all, that is why I have the GS4 seat.

The effects on the driver's body are both directly tied to, and independent, of the car. If all that is being done is replicating the car's behaviour, which is then transferred to the body, that's not enough. You could give D-Box greater stroke length but that's just going to make it wholly unrealistic. As I described above, once a "trick" is used too overtly, the brain begins to be deprived of it's suspension of disbelief. That's why an accumulation to the same level but through numerous tricks will be more effective at fooling the mind. From memory the guys at ISR noted that concept when trying the GS4 + traction loss + seat mover. In the vid that @AussieStig posted the car would already be below ground with that stroke length, yet the effect on the body is still reasonably sedate.

Don't get me wrong, I've got a traction loss and seat mover (Simvibe coming at some point) setup and I would most likely trade that for your D-Box and GS4 setup, but I don't think that either has everything that's needed to most subtly and effectively fool the brain, and operate on an intensity level where each component is not trying to do more than it logically should.

 

[Nick Moxley]

No, you were fine. If you hadn't explained what you meant by low, medium and high frequency it would have been confusing, but you did.

I'm still left wondering about using a GS4, D-Box, traction loss, and a seat mover........



The effects on the driver's body are both directly tied to, and independent, of the car. If all that is being done is replicating the car's behaviour, which is then transferred to the body, that's not enough. You could give D-Box greater stroke length but that's just going to make it wholly unrealistic. As I described above, once a "trick" is used too overtly, the brain begins to be deprived of it's suspension of disbelief. That's why an accumulation to the same level but through numerous tricks will be more effective at fooling the mind. From memory the guys at ISR noted that concept when trying the GS4 + traction loss + seat mover. In the vid that @AussieStig posted the car would already be below ground with that stroke length, yet the effect on the body is still reasonably sedate.

Don't get me wrong, I've got a traction loss and seat mover (Simvibe coming at some point) setup and I would most likely trade that for your D-Box and GS4 setup, but I don't think that either has everything that's needed to most subtly and effectively fool the brain, and operate on an intensity level where each component is not trying to do more than it logically should.

I would hold off on that, A little birdie told me a particular motion software is in the final stages of beta testing the Tactile side of thing's. Also another little surprise is in the works too.

 

[Mayaman]

Thats cool Lemans, like I said all the motion principles have merit. I'd like to keep this thread focused on Dbox as that is what I have and what I sell. I do have and support GS4 completely, its an awesome piece of kit. Dbox replicates a cars suspension really amazingly. The tactile replicates road surface, and other tactile cues extremely well.

As for fooling your brain, they all do a great job. Its up to your brain after that.