Official D-Box motion information thread

  • Thread starter Mayaman
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Hey Mayaman

The acculators on DIY simx rig failed.:indiff:

So now I'm considering a dbox solution for my rig, which is less space consuming. Codemasters are now also supporting multiple UDP outputs in their latest games, so it should work perfectly with my AF and GS4.

I'm still in the planning fase. I'm thinking of getting a 3250i 3 acculator kit.
(This already over the edge of my budget :) )

1. Is there a big difference between the 4 and 3 acculator d-box rigs? What is the difference?
2. The simx seat mover had this awesome brake effect, pushing me forward during game braking. Can something simular be achieved with D-box?
3. This a practical question for moving the rig . Can I manually raise and lower the acculators in a control panel on the pc ?



 
HoiHman
The acculators on DIY simx rig failed.
Click to expand...

Both of them? At the same time?

Others have years of trouble free use behind them, and potentially years ahead. Is it possible that the SCN5/6s were simply faulty? I'm also interested to know if SimX have warranty out-clauses for DIY use, or some such. It just seems extreme to be throwing so much money at another solution if you could just get the actuators replaced, and have another try with the same set up.

HoiHman
The simx seat mover had this awesome brake effect, pushing me forward during game braking. Can something simular be achieved with D-box?
Click to expand...

If you are switching to a rig mover, the seat angle to actuator stroke length ratio will change. The same options for actuator movement should be there, it would just have a slightly less pronounced affect. The tolerances may still be very much within the desired boundaries though. The other thing would be not having the closing of distance between seat and pedals during braking, like you have had previously. When I imagine how a seat mover works in this regard, I feel like it shouldn't feel right - but I find it very effective in practice.

If I remember correctly @AussieStig has tried both dbox and SimX motion, and more recently https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/motion-simulator-t1000-2-3-4-5-motion-from-1890€.331017/ ........ May be able to offer some more feedback on this.
 
Mayaman
My friend, the distance traveled is just so close that you're not going to notice a difference. Trust me, it feels like a real suspension. You're not going to think you're in a single seat simulator. But then again, the proof is in the pudding. Once I'm done I'll invite you to come take a vaca to Connecticut and see for yourself. :)

Not using the Dbox tactile would be insanely dumb. LOL

I'm not being a jerk, I have a few years of using this equipment. I know what it can and cannot do. I'm not blowing smoke up your arse. hehe
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It is interesting to hear more about the benefits and enjoyment of the system. Indeed the tactile it produces is a benefit over other motion options and worth remembering in the included cost, particularly as a decent Simvibe configuration with amps/tactile run $1000.

The software options and game support are also very extensive and I assume it doesn't constantly make that chirping sound? What is disappointing is that even D-Box after over 10 years in the industry have not been able to get the console manufacturers to support motion.

Saying as this is a topic of interest perhaps it is best to display some screenshots or (video) of options in settings available that facilitate the tactile tuning and more info on the technical abilities which is very vague and only seems to list frequency upto 100Hz support.

Most people do not look to buy motion for it having "tactile" and most seem to incorporate one or the other and not both to a high standard. I have yet to see an "Ultimate Immersion Rig" that fully utilises the best components of both.


Questions:
  • Is the motion strength % independent from the tactile?
  • How many effects/what parameters?
  • Why do Vesaro support installation of the Buttkicker Advance (400w tactile) if D-Box alone is adequate?
  • Any users/tests confirm D-Box low end effects are stronger than 4x BK LFE at 1500watts each? I VERY much doubt it.
  • Can D-Box achieve greater detail and faster response compared to Clark TST units?
  • Does D-Box generate any audible tactile sound to help increase positional placement?

Points to consider/factor:
While indeed D-Box supports tactile as standard and is a bonus to assume that its tactile performance is better than what can be achieved via the best alternatives is well for me rather doubtful.

Perhaps it offers a degree of performance many would be indeed happy and content with and again lets state all included in the price but "offers the whole spectrum" hence the 100Hz specification tells little about its abilities or a true comparison to what may be possible with a good dedicated tactile configuration.

Software / tuning options is a big part of it yes but their is so little known about the technical abilities of D-Box "tactile effects". More information on this would only help to increase sales or encourage someone to buy D-Box Vs a rival platform.
  • D-Box relies on tactile vibrations from the actuators to travel to the desired locations.
  • A tactile configuration can be specificity placed for optimal positioning and immersion to the users pref.
  • Tactile configurations can operate specific effects/extensions for individual installed/positions.
  • D-Box can only rely on maximum of 4x units for sustained tactile effects.
  • Tactile units unlike D-Box can work with consoles adding some immersion.
  • Additional audio hardware PEQ/DSP can enable very effective control of tactile operation to .1Hz if desired.
  • The ultimate solution is never a single one box solution
 
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I couldn't tell you exactly since I'm not an audio engineer. But I will say that every person I sold D-Box to had a dedicated sim-vibe setup, and each one doesn't use sim-vibe any more. for what thats worth.
 
LeMansAid
Both of them? At the same time?

Others have years of trouble free use behind them, and potentially years ahead. Is it possible that the SCN5/6s were simply faulty? I'm also interested to know if SimX have warranty out-clauses for DIY use, or some such. It just seems extreme to be throwing so much money at another solution if you could just get the actuators replaced, and have another try with the same set up.



If you are switching to a rig mover, the seat angle to actuator stroke length ratio will change. The same options for actuator movement should be there, it would just have a slightly less pronounced affect. The tolerances may still be very much within the desired boundaries though. The other thing would be not having the closing of distance between seat and pedals during braking, like you have had previously. When I imagine how a seat mover works in this regard, I feel like it shouldn't feel right - but I find it very effective in practice.

If I remember correctly @AussieStig has tried both dbox and SimX motion, and more recently https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/motion-simulator-t1000-2-3-4-5-motion-from-1890€.331017/ ........ May be able to offer some more feedback on this.
Click to expand...

Because i'm very limited with the space behind my rig, the acculators were mounted on a smaller angle than usually on the SimX stage1 rigs. Add to that the higher weight of the GS-4 and the 5 buttkickers, which also didn't help.

I was smart enough to send my design to SimX and got their approval. They suggested i go for the stronger SCN6 acculator, which i did. After 2 months of use both acculators already started to have significant play.

I contacted SimX and after some emails back and forth, they offered me a refund. So i send everyting back and the full refund was given pretty quickly.

Normally they do have limited support on DIY solutions, but that email (which i kept offcourse) saved me a lot of money. :) (i still hope to get the import taxes back)

Beside the money, i spend at least a 100 hours making special brackets and completely redesigning and rebuilding my rig for seat mover motion. The biggest challenge was the limited space and that the rig is not permanent.

Going back motionless was heartbreaking.:( I even considered quiting simracing all together.

Than came the Accuforce and brought back the joy in simracing again.:bowdown:
The GS-4 + AF + simvibe are still a great mix, but i'm still missing the motion sometimes.

Perhaps D-box is the better solution for the future with VR because it moves less than a seatmover. :confused:

My idea would be to have the D-box simulate the chassis and the GS-4 simulate the G-forces.

@Nick Moxley
I'm still on the fence about DIY motion. The problem in my case is that the experts on the X-simulator forum, couldn't agree on which motor i should get. I simply do not want to take another leap in the dark, that might not have a good outcome. I still haven't removed the pivot from my rig though.;)
 
Mayaman
I couldn't tell you exactly since I'm not an audio engineer. But I will say that every person I sold D-Box to had a dedicated sim-vibe setup, and each one doesn't use sim-vibe any more. for what thats worth.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your informative reply.
 
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LeMansAid
That's good to know, both in regards to your financials and SimX's reputation.

Is it worth trying a Moxley style solution, since hopefully much of the work has already been done? I've seen these worm gear motors recommended - https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/worm-drive-motor-12v-24v-200w-180-rpm-20nm-torque.html
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I think i already vistited that site over 25 times. The shipping cost more than the motors themselves. I have no problem with that, if everybody tells me that's the motor to get. The problem is that the guys at x-simulator don't agree on this. It's probably too light for my situation.

Do not underestimate the weight of the GS-4 combined with the buttkickers. It's much heavier than a normal seat. Also with the limited space available i would need to run those motors also with very small angles too.

The heavy weight of the GS-4 + the smaller angle is what caused my SCN6 wear so fast.

SimXperience treated me well. I'm very thankfull for that, but still sad that i can't use their motion solution and run everything through SC4.
 
Henry III
I was also looking forward to a more technical and informative answer. Oh well...
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you hence why I wanted to give him the opportunity to properly compare technical/software pros/cons. The thread is titled as an "information thread".

I spent quite some time on that post and considering things. Gave credit to the assumption that the quality of tactile from D-Box would please many people, also saving potentially quite a bit of money other options like Simvibe would cost. That is a very credible benefit of the system.

For the record I am not an audio engineer neither but I only challenged someone making claims which seem rather unsupported by actual information or valid comparisons.

However I do have a sense of humour, he should be a politician with that level of sidestepping :)



Perhaps HoiHman, should just sell all his Buttkickers, drop Simvibe altogether and go with D-Box? Clearly if ALL others Mayaman has sold to have dropped it then we should just take for granted it is awesome.

However this does nothing to express "what they ran before" or reasons "why" they just stuck with D-Box tactile.

It also does nothing to explain why many companies sell Buttkickers along with D-Box on their simulators. Well other than give the impression they have something to add to the D-Box experience? Greater immersion in the seat perhaps?

Very Simple Basics:
"Software" is D-Box tactile better, show what it does man......
"Hardware" performance is good okay but is it better than......

(What tactile hardware / $10 dayton pucks /$50 ADX, what exactly?)



Cha Cha
 
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Henk, the Motion dynamics motor's would work fine, Avenge went with even faster "stronger" motor's which was the problem....the motor's from MD are IDENTICAL in looks from what PgSaw sells on ebay for us Canucks....20 rmp difference i wouldn't be terribly concerned about as thats most likely a mistake on either side, 160vs180rpm is no big deal.


For what its worth, I had a 300+ Lbs buddy in my rig when i first had it all together, Motor's Didn't complain Once and motion was still decently fast. Thats on 25:1 motor's with a Pivot point Built for 150lbs.
 
Well Nick you got me thinking about those motors again :)

I just got back from holiday, buzy at work so i don't have time dive into it right now, but can i send you a PM at a later stage for some advice?
 
HoiHman
Well Nick you got me thinking about those motors again :)

I just got back from holiday, buzy at work so i don't have time dive into it right now, but can i send you a PM at a later stage for some advice?
Click to expand...


Absolutely henk, Talk to you soon.
 
Guys, this has been talked about ad nauseum. This isn't a sim-vibe/tactile transducers vs. Dbox tactile thread. This is a D-box thread. D-Box provides really really good tactile, so much so that several Sim-Vibe users have stopped using sim-vibe altogether. Maybe thats right for you, maybe it isn't, but unless you have a Dbox, I really don't understand why you would care. Unless its to try and hammer home to people that tactile via SimVibe or whatever you use is better, which frankly, I could care less about since I don't use it and its not the topic of this thread.

If you like SimVibe FANTASTIC! If you don't have D-Box but want one FANTASTIC. If your agenda is to prove that SimVibe tactile is better than D-box tactile, well, no one said it wasn't or was. And its pretty irrelevant seeing as D-box is a motion platform that can also do tactile, while simvibe cannot do motion.

Sorry to be frank, but I'm tired.
 
Sorry Mayaman the point was raised for you to help OTHERS in actually demonstrating the software for comparisons.

You perhaps fail to see the relevance that many have yet to see any detailed comparisons of alternatives compared to D-Box. Try finding detailed info on d-box, its rather thin and not just in the tactile side of things but making comparisons of the general packages including SOFTWARE features etc.

From a hobby aspect and interest in tech it would of been interesting reading. I dont think people have to be interested in buying it to find an interest about it. Although learning more about D-Box could only help some to decide to possibly purchase it.

Such (info/comparisons) would also give OTHERS a better idea as to WHAT suits THEM as indeed everyone's Pros/Cons may vary.

Agenda, please I was just conveying possibilities of each and more than once credited D-Box for having tactile effects as a major bonus.

Great attitude btw, really err moving. :)
 
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Once my setup is complete I will do an expose which will explain most everything. But since my health is in the toilet it takes me 10 times the normal person to get anything done. Hopefully I won't kick the bucket before project is done. Its almost there. Just need to have strength to finish it.
 
Mrgusto, where are you. You're more than welcome to stop by and give a review if you like. Then you can give a completely objective opinion of the tactile and motion provided by Dbox.
 
Just a quick bump, I took some videos tonight with Seth and I'll be posting it up tonight on Youtube. Seth is a virgin sim racer to Motion and VR and I wanted a fresh unbiased opinion on both.
 
Mayaman, which motion system do you prefer, the Simexperience one with the only set moving around or the Dbox motion system? Or better, which is more realistic in term of real driver experience ?! Thanks
 
I think its pretty obvious which I prefer. Also I think its pretty silly to post promotional rhetoric from a motion system that isn't Dbox in an official Dbox thread. Kind of jerk move actually.
 
Just stumbled upon this thread and thought I'd give my 2 cents worth. The d-box really has no competitors, that is it is in a league of it's own. Trying to compare consoles and buttkickers and the like is like comparing a F1 race car to a tricycle.

Anyone that is serious about sim racing and wants to race with the big boys will move past consoles and move only to PC racing. Since this is a thread about d-box, they are the state of the art on sim racing. There are alternatives to d-box and some are very good, but if money was no object I would buy a d-box in a heartbeat.
 

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