Official Ferrari Challenge A.I. Poll

[ferraripro]

Hi All,

In the last patch, at the request of many, we made the A.I. more capable and knowledgeable about the player which in theory gave you a better race. I have been monitoring the boards and read with interest the discussions about the "severity" of the A.I.

As well as general racing, the A.I. have several abilities namely:

To block the player if they think they will try to over take on the inside of a corner. They will either completely cover the inside line or just take a more compromised line in to the corner. They will not do this if the player is too close to the A.I. and has pretty much completed the maneuverer already.

The will try to stop a player slip streaming them on the straight.

If a player attempts to go around the outside of the A.I. on a corner they will not simply let the player driver around them. They will keep on their line and if this means contact is inevitable then so be it, remember they are on the racing line, not the player.

If you hit an A.I driver repeatedly or particularly hard they will remember for a short period of time and return the favour. This doesn't mean they will actively "chase" the player. If the player is slow in to a corner for instance, the A.I. will brake at it's normal point to make the corner rather than earlier which it normally would to avoid hitting the slower player. Therefore there will be some contact. After a single contact, the A.I. will return to normal.

If you leave the door open in to a corner and the A.I. think they can over take you on the inside they will attempt to do so.​

Patch V2 is imminent and we can make adjustments to the A.I. if needed to improve the racing.

Simply, do we need to?

 

[TurboGigi-69]

Hi FerrariPro,

the A.I. for me is perfect.

Thanks again for your ongoing work to improve and make perfect this magnificent game.


If I can make you a question, with the patch V.2 you can change car inside lobby? (to avoid making a new lobby every car that is used)


Thanks for your answer

TurboGigi-69

 

[RF951]

My problem with the AI is two fold.

First, the excessive braking to block the players forward progress. I don't mean the aggresive defense of the racing line but rather once you are blocked they will slow down excessively.

Second, once along side in a racing situation they will attempt to push the driver off the track. I'm ok with that if there is only room for one car and I am overtaking them. The problem is that this is occuring when the road is wide enough for 2 or 3 cars.

As a side note related to my car control, I use a G25 and the response to change direction is poor with that wheel. Sometimes when the AI moves to defend its' line I simply do not enough the time to avoid hitting them. Anything you folks can do to improve the control I have with this wheel would greatly enhance the games playability.

Thumbs up for your involvement with us on these issues 👍. It's unfortunately rare now to see this degree of customer service from your competitors.

 

[amar212]

On the first place, thank you very much FerrariPro and Eutechnyx team at whole for keeping up to date with wishes and suggestions of the community.
It is something that I never met before at such scale in any game, and your work should be praised as the praxis for all the upcoming titles.
That is particularly impressive when I see the list you've published about V2 Patch content, which contains many of details suggested by respectful members here in "V2 suggestions" thread.

Now on to subject.

AS I can presume, you've read my post regarding AI in 3+ stars Trophy races. Even it sounds a bit harsh, it somehow truly reflects my feelings about the AI in those races.
As I've been playing much of your LeMans 24 Hours game back in 1998. (and it still one of my favorite racers of all time - Melbourne Studio's game didn't come even close in terms of gameplay, ideas and implementation of structure details), I can say that even then you have some great ideas about how should AI behave - when observed now in context of time of course.

So, I'm still free to say that AI represented there in LMP1 class was more "normal" than AI seen in 3+ stars Trophy races. Also make a notice I'm driving FC:TP on Expert AI setting only (and Trophy level respectfully in Trophy races), G25, no-assists whatsoever, and my criticism comes from that level solely.

Major example of ares that need improvement can be seen by racing F50 race in F50 Trophy on Silverstone. It is 5-star race, thus most difficult. However, some issues regarding AI there are constant even on 1-star races. But, on 1-star races you can avoid focusing on them due to ability to overtake AI cars despite those issues.

1) TEAM ACTING - When 2 AI cars are racing each other, they stop their duel immediately after P1 (Player) comes in their "attention area". They start to act together as a "team" - not as single driver trying to maintain it's position - in effort to prevent P1 in overtaking. It's ridiculous - I can understand that car in the back will try to prevent P1 in overtaking by changing track position, but car in front should maintain it's race, without also compromising duel with another AI car in effort to stop P1 car in overtaking other AI car. (can be fairly noticed when passing cars on positions #15 and #14 after start-straight, as well with the group from positions #10 to #6 on Silverstone race).

2) LEANING ON P1 CAR - that is probably the #1 on my "Most Annoying AI Behavior list". When you make a move to overtake a car on straight, AI car will change it's side. OK, no problem there. But when P1 car manage to change it's line again and overtake AI car on despite it's defensive move, AI car will then LEAN on P1 car and remain "IN" the P1 car's "body" as long as it can. Why?
There is no logic reason for that at all - and despite it affects both car speeds, balance and grip, it's also totally unrealistic. Never in real life you'll see a opponent car stuck itself into the contenders body. Here, AI car will remain in the P1 car even in the corner, and it will eventually move after P1 car has managed to speed up enough.

If P1 car has managed to pass the AI car and gain it's position on the track for the next turn, AI car should move-away from P1 car - no discussion there - and look for it's overtake chance later - not by staying attached to P1 car. Also, this issue is somehow affected with the bad-perspective of in-car rear-view mirror which gives unrealistic picture of the position of the car behind - but that is another issue now.

3) LINE CHANGING - When P1 is drafting AI car on straight (AI car is on racing line for example), AI car will deliberately make more then 1 change of racing side in effort to prevent overtake. Changing racing line more then 1 time is not in the manners of sport, despite the idea of "prevention of slipstreaming".

4) BRAKING when P1 is preparing for overtake is one of the issues persistent for all star-levels races. Why? There is no logic in braking in the middle of the straight, or on exit of the corner when P1 car have the better exit-speed. Nobody never brake in the middle of the track in real life racing, or after exiting the corner, resulting P1 car crasing in it's rear side - it would lead to penalty immediately. That is also my #2 on the "Most Annoying AI Behavior list".

5) LATE BRAKING - Also extremely noticeable on Silverstone F50 Trophy race, especially on Abbey and Club turns respectfully, but also on all turns and corners which demand high-speed braking on every track. AI car will tend to bash P1 car, due to their late braking. AI cars behave as they're not aware of P1 car in front of them, and they do not take P1 car braking as a signal they should also slow down.

I do not know does P1's turning all assists OFF also make AI cars to drive without assists, but it somehow seems they keep their assists on, if they brake so late (because of ABS on or whatever). If not, it till remains annoying, because diving into P1 car before turns is very doubtful technique of overtaking.

Those are issues that I have - despite those, I find AI in FC:TP very challenging and I see it's potential. If those issues above would be taken care of, it would make racing 3+ star Trophy races a truly exciting and challenging experience.

Oh, and one more thing - please, give us Croatian flag in Team options, thank you in advance. Keep up the good work 👍

 

[Whistle Snap]

The AI's corner defending tactics need improving.

I find them moving off-line to defend the inside line way too early, they also brake early and are very slow - this allows me to stay on the correct racing line for an easy pass.


The AI is slow on every medium/high speed chichane on every track, plus some other problem corners

Played on Expert level.

Monza:

- Variante - too slow
- Ascari - too slow

Mugello:

- Luco - too slow
- Secco - too slow
- Materassi - AI defends inside line too early, slow
- Arrabbiata 1 & 2 - too slow
- Scarperia - AI defends inside line too early, slow
- Palagio - too slow
- Biondetti - too slow

Misano:

- Turn 2 - too slow
- Curvone - too slow
- Variante Arena - too slow
- Variante del Parco - too slow



Will add the other tracks later.

 

[lbloom]

Hi All,

In the last patch, at the request of many, we made the A.I. more capable and knowledgeable about the player which in theory gave you a better race. I have been monitoring the boards and read with interest the discussions about the "severity" of the A.I.

As well as general racing, the A.I. have several abilities namely:

To block the player if they think they will try to over take on the inside of a corner. They will either completely cover the inside line or just take a more compromised line in to the corner. They will not do this if the player is too close to the A.I. and has pretty much completed the maneuverer already.
The will try to stop a player slip streaming them on the straight.

If a player attempts to go around the outside of the A.I. on a corner they will not simply let the player driver around them. They will keep on their line and if this means contact is inevitable then so be it, remember they are on the racing line, not the player.

If you hit an A.I driver repeatedly or particularly hard they will remember for a short period of time and return the favour. This doesn't mean they will actively "chase" the player. If the player is slow in to a corner for instance, the A.I. will brake at it's normal point to make the corner rather than earlier which it normally would to avoid hitting the slower player. Therefore there will be some contact. After a single contact, the A.I. will return to normal.

If you leave the door open in to a corner and the A.I. think they can over take you on the inside they will attempt to do so.​

Patch V2 is imminent and we can make adjustments to the A.I. if needed to improve the racing.

Simply, do we need to?

I'm sorry that isn't what they do. I can see one move by the AI if they have left the door open on the inside to block. But when they do this I go outside and they will move to block that and if I go back inside they will move to block that and brake check me. In any motorsports ruling body I am aware of that sort of driving will earn a driver a penalty. I don't mind one move to block but several is just dirty driving.

Not a problem IF the AI hold their line. I won't pass on a corner unless there is enough room to do so. But the AI do not hold a line....see above.


I have NEVER seen the AI in this game brake or make an evasive move to avoid contact.

The AI in this game is the worst I have ever seen. It is causing me to quit the game and I am thinking of trying to get my money back. The AI need serious improvement.

 

[amar212]

The AI's corner defending tactics need improving.
I find them moving off-line to defend the inside line way too early, they also brake early and are very slow - this allows me to stay on the correct racing line for an easy pass.

The AI is slow on every medium/high speed chichane on every track, plus some other problem corners

I agree with above too - improving AI speed in all corners would make them more competitive and should lead to disable "brake in order to prevent overtake" praxis of AI.

If AI can actually "drive" times shown after the Qualification in Challenge races, why they are not so fast during the race itself? OK, qualification times are very much crazy (I know you will make them more reasonable by patch V2), but they also show you can make AI competitive though their speed, not just their respectful track behavior.

 

[MS7XWDC]

The AI in this game is the worst I have ever seen. It is causing me to quit the game and I am thinking of trying to get my money back. The AI need serious improvement.

i can't agree with that. it's probably the best i've seen, but needs a few tweaks.

the "multiple line changing defense" most notable

 

[Rocket Punch]

RF951, amar212, Whistle Snap & lbloom pretty much summed up what I had to say, so I am not going to repeat them.

I think I am saying for everyone here (mostly), the reason why we are so frustrated is because this game had so much potential we all hate to see it being bog down by something like the clunky AI code. In other words, we are so vocal about it because we actually care and want this IP to live up to its potential.

While I totally understand the developers intention to provide a more intense offline experience, but as it stands the result had not been successful. To put it bluntly, the AI code is actually close to drunk driving than professional racing. As a long time autosport enthusiast and avid driving/racing gamer, even I have difficulty to comprehend some of the logic behind AI's behavior; It probably would not be an issue (..for me at least) as I don't really care about playing offline, but it became an issue when we are forced to deal with it simply to unlock cars and circuits. For more casual players and for someone who intents to play the game offline, I can see the current AI behavior being a huge turn off.

When you mention the capabilities of the AI's, my feeling is I don't think the AI cars actually are that capable (in terms of speed), as you can easily beat them in many circuits from P16 to P1 with a 10's+ lead in 7 laps (may be more if you have full assist), that is if you managed to aviod their attacks. May be all the developer has to do is to give the AI a bit more speed and dial down the erratic behavior a little, similar to what amar212 said.

 

[u982245]

please give us clutch controll, for us who use a g25 that would really improve the game when you drive the old cars without semi auto gearboxes

 

[Biggles]

I am still amazed that there can be any discussion with Eutechnyx about developing the AI. Where the hell is that discussion with PD?!

 

[amar212]

I almost forget this one below, and it's very important.

6) OVERLAPPING PRAXIS - aka BLUE FLAGS ANYONE?
When P1 car is overtaking AI car for a whole lap, AI car still behaves like it's battling for position. You can experience such AI on California Speedway races in Trophy mode, since it's pretty easy to overlap AI cars in the last lap of 10 minutes race. Also, you can experience it in every race that you put 20+minutes length.

So, there is a need for implementation of Blue Flag rule, period. P1 car is overlapping, AI cars - move and let it pass.

Also, Blue Flag would come very handy for lengthier online races in pespective, since if there ever is going to be 16 players races without game crashing, you can expect that serious drivers in community will organize 20+minutes races. With that in mind, you can expect that in some point some cars will overlap other cars, and there should be a Blue Flag signal to let them pass and not to block them.

I am still amazed that there can be any discussion with Eutechnyx about developing the AI. Where the hell is that discussion with PD?!

PD has no connection with community, while Eutechnyx actually asks for inputs from the community. Since there is room for improvement in every game ever made, we try to do our best in effort the make the game we all praise so much to be even better.

please give us clutch controll, for us who use a g25 that would really improve the game when you drive the old cars without semi auto gearboxes

This actully does not belong in this thread

Regards.

 

[ferraripro]

Hi,

Thanks for all the feedback. We'll look in to make some improvements over the next couple of days in time for the release of Patch V2.

 

[Biggles]

PD has no connection with community, while Eutechnyx actually asks for inputs from the community. Since there is room for improvement in every game ever made, we try to do our best in effort the make the game we all praise so much to be even better.

Well there are 2 points in my post:

1) How come there's no discussion with PD?

2) If Eutechnyx can make changes to the AI (which apparently is already far superior to GT's AI) "on the fly", why does PD continue to come out with terrible (almost non-existent) AI?