Oil Alternatives!

[GT4 genius]

Even a tiny bit of platinum is unbelievably expensive.

I know but maybe other cheaper metals could be used, and by a small bit i mean less than 2grams.

 

[Joey D]

Platinum in July I believe closed at the price of close to $1300 per ounce, that's a lot of money for a little bit of metal. It's not cost effective to do that, although other metals as you said may work. Gold and silver are a lot cheaper but I do not know their chemical properties all that well...me and chemistry never got along to well.

 

[GT4 genius]

Great news for the hydrogen supporters, peugeot are going to unveil a hydrogen powered car at the francfurt motorshow.
Its a little radically desiged but i am sure the technologies sound.
http://www.topgear.com/content/news/stories/2179/
See it here.
Its great to see a company doing this type of thing, maybe it'll be in there next Le Mans car.

 

[High-Test]

Gil, I may not have lived in Kansas nearly as long as you, I can't understand that either. What if they paid farmers to put windmills in the cow pastures along I-35? That way, they aren't taking up crop space.

 

[GT4 genius]

Is there really that much power produced by them, is it not true that the need more than 13mph winds for them to produce anything. Maybe those speeds are very common were you are taking about.

 

[Joey D]

Kansas is basically a huge flat area of land with few trees and even fewer hills. It will always be windy there.

 

[GT4 genius]

Getting back to the point though isn't it good to see a major car manufacturer experimenting with hydrogen

 

[ExigeEvan]

Getting back to the point though isn't it good to see a major car manufacturer experimenting with hydrogen

Loads have been doing it in some shape or another. But untill a hydrogen infrastructure is in place it's still a dream.

 

[GT4 genius]

But that dream mightened be very far away!

 

[Joey D]

As long as oil is the most economically sound thing we won't see a change. Right now it's cheaper to use and people are making billions off of it so don't expect hydrogen anytime soon.

 

[GT4 genius]

Some companies see potential in hydrogen, including shell and BMW, so if they can make money out of this it wont be that long away. People might forget about oil pretty quickly. Ok now i am just dreaming but look at this site, they talk about reaching goals by 2015. Thats only 8yrs away.

http://www.shell.com/home/Framework...leases/2006/european_infrastructure_2909.html

 

[Philly]

Some companies see potential in hydrogen, including shell and BMW, so if they can make money out of this it wont be that long away. People might forget about oil pretty quickly. Ok now i am just dreaming but look at this site, they talk about reaching goals by 2015. Thats only 8yrs away.

Joey is right. There is no money in Hydrogen yet. Once there is, then we will see hydrogen become more popular.

So all that is left to be acccomplished are the lighthouse projects? Good news! That is the hard part. We have done all of the research necessary to make a car run (how well, I'm not sure.) Now the only thing left is researching how to create a hydrogen infrastructure and build it. That is a huge task. We are talking about replacing every gas station with hydrogen, building a continent-wide pipeline network and building the facilities to produce the stuff. And then we have to convince the public that this is the way to go. Then the final step will be getting the public to buy the stuff, and then wait for all of the gasoline powered cars to be phased out. I'm sorry. We won't see a hydrogen economy for years.

As for the eight year estimate, that is when we will see the first hydrogen powered cars in the road, if we're lucky. These cars won't be practical to own, and will be very rare. This is simply because hydrogen stations will be very few and far between, maybe like two in the center of a city. We won't convert to hydrogen in 8 years. We only stand a chance of putting it on the streets then.

 

[dylansan]

There are two huge problems in the world; global warming, and lack of energy sources. Anyone see a problem here? It's called solar power people, and it's waiting.

 

[Joey D]

Except what happens if it's cloudy or dark? Solar power isn't the answer, especially here in the northern areas where it is cloudy more often then it is sunny.

 

[GT4 genius]

There are two huge problems in the world; global warming, and lack of energy sources. Anyone see a problem here? It's called solar power people, and it's waiting.

Solar power in ireland, hah. Theres soo much cloud here i'm not even sure if the sun is still up there. Although, to be fare, the weatherman says will get a glimpse of it tomorrow!!

As for hydrogen i know it wont be fully up and runing by 2015 but i meant what you said, a few cars in a few cities, but we have to start some where, and if we achieve that we would have a lot of hydrogen gas pumps within 20yrs, that'll be 2027, maybe even a ratio of 75% to 25% cars in favour of hydrogen then petrol.

 

[Philly]

Except what happens if it's cloudy or dark? Solar power isn't the answer, especially here in the northern areas where it is cloudy more often then it is sunny.

During the summer solar powr would be a big help. It could replace some of what the coal plants use during that time and help when everybody is running the AC

As for hydrogen i know it wont be fully up and runing by 2015 but i meant what you said, a few cars in a few cities, but we have to start some where, and if we achieve that we would have a lot of hydrogen gas pumps within 20yrs, that'll be 2027, maybe even a ratio of 75% to 25% cars in favour of hydrogen then petrol.

Also, to even think about adopting hydrogen in favor of gasoline, we have to rebuild most of our electrical power supply to use renewables.

 

[Joey D]

Yes but spending hundreds of millions of dollars for something that would maybe work 5 month out of the year doesn't seem right. I'm still for wind power.

 

[GT4 genius]

Also, to even think about adopting hydrogen in favor of gasoline, we have to rebuild most of our electrical power supply to use renewables.

Isn't that what we are doing, wind farms are popping up everywhere, new houses in south european countries by law have to have some form of solar power generation, england annouced last year a new generation of nuclear power plants. The only country i see building fossil fuel power generation plants is china.

 

[dylansan]

You can always store the solar power and use it later. Some people use solar power now and have so much that they sell it back to the grid. It seems like a good investment. Also, when I said solar, I didn't mean everything gets a solar panel. I meant that solar power can be gathered from somewhere and sent to your power outlets. Even when it's cloudy where you live, you can still get power.

What about a giant solar panel grid in space? No clouds...

 

[rovens]

Solar power in ireland, hah. Theres soo much cloud here i'm not even sure if the sun is still up there. Although, to be fare, the weatherman says will get a glimpse of it tomorrow!!

Solar cells do not require direct sunlight to function, though obviously its does make them more effective. Maybe even if small systems such as air conditioning were run off of solar power, every little helps.

 

[Joey D]

What about a giant solar panel grid in space? No clouds...

I don't want to finance the billions upon billions of dollars that would cost.

 

[Philly]

Isn't that what we are doing, wind farms are popping up everywhere, new houses in south european countries by law have to have some form of solar power generation, england annouced last year a new generation of nuclear power plants. The only country i see building fossil fuel power generation plants is china.

Look across the Atlantic. Over here we get probably at least 60% of our power from fossil fuels. Replacing that power would take many years and a LOT of money. Even in Europe, I'm sure there are a good amount of fossil fuel plants there. They are probably being phased out, and that means that they will be run for their expected lifetime. Nobody is about to replace a perfectly good power plant without a really good reason. And, with Germany shutting her nuclear plants down, Europe will have to work on producing as much power as possible.

You can always store the solar power and use it later. Some people use solar power now and have so much that they sell it back to the grid. It seems like a good investment. Also, when I said solar, I didn't mean everything gets a solar panel. I meant that solar power can be gathered from somewhere and sent to your power outlets. Even when it's cloudy where you live, you can still get power.

That's what we do out on the West Coast. Washington and Oregon produce much more power than needed from hydroelectic. What do we do? Sell it to California. Set up a few solar plants in New Mexico and Arizona and you could probably power the whole West between those four states.

What about a giant solar panel grid in space? No clouds...

I mentioned this a little earlier. Yes, we could generate a huge amount of power from it because the sun's rays are so much more powerful there and there is no weather, and yes it wouldn't take up any space on the ground, but again, there are two problems. One, it is expensive. And then, do we have the technology to shoot a beam of energy from space and collect it on Earth?

 

[Gil]

Gil, I may not have lived in Kansas nearly as long as you, I can't understand that either. What if they paid farmers to put windmills in the cow pastures along I-35? That way, they aren't taking up crop space.

Ref: The wizard of Oz.
It is a fairy tale, but the weather portion of the story is based on actual Kansas weather pattern.

Spring is always very windy here.

 

[GT4 genius]

The solar panel in space is a good idea i think i've heard it before though, as for getting the energy back down here apparently it can be sent with microwaves, they radio waves, not the things you heat your dinner in.

But i dont see the ESB, irish electrical supply board sending a giant piece of glass into the sky any time soon. Although i'm sure it'd have a pretty quick return, even if it was expensive to set up.
Do you think a bank manager would give me a loan to set that up, about a billion euro should do!

 

[ExigeEvan]

The solar panel in space is a good idea i think i've heard it before though, as for getting the energy back down here apparently it can be sent with microwaves, they radio waves, not the things you heat your dinner in.

But i dont see the ESB, irish electrical supply board sending a giant piece of glass into the sky any time soon. Although i'm sure it'd have a pretty quick return, even if it was expensive to set up.
Do you think a bank manager would give me a loan to set that up, about a billion euro should do!

What!?

People are scared enough about bloody telephone mast radiation do you think anyone is going to allow themselves to be bathed in radiation from an unnatural source?

The cost would be astronical aswell, and the recuperation of costs extremely slow.

 

[FoolKiller]

apparently it can be sent with microwaves, they radio waves, not the things you heat your dinner in.

Same thing. It's just that the harmful effects of microwave radiation dissipate very quickly. I've been on a roof witha weather radar and unless you are within a couple yards you don't feel anything, get close and you feel very sick.

What!?

People are scared enough about bloody telephone mast radiation do you think anyone is going to allow themselves to be bathed in radiation from an unnatural source?

Microwaves are fairly line-of-sight and directed. And as I said above the effects aren't noticable at all after a few feet. If people were paranoid about this they would already complain about satellite TV beaming down over entire continents. Most people are unaware of microwave signals. Every time you see a TV truck with a big dish on a raised pole that is microwaves. Heck, locally we even have a weather radar on a baseball stadium and no one says a word.

The effects of microwave radiation have been shown to be negligible so many tiomes over that the first person to complain about such a thing would quickly be silenced by nearly the entire scientific community.


All that said, I believe that due to the quick dissipation of microwave radiation it woudln't work as a way to beam back energy. In fact, I have no clue how this would work exactly, but I hear it theorized all the time so I can only assume it can be done.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Except all the Microwaves you speak of are for sending signals.

These guys are proposing the sending of energy via microwaves. That I believe, though certainly not sure of, would suggest a much more powerful for of microwaves, unlike that used for signals.

 

[FoolKiller]

Except all the Microwaves you speak of are for sending signals.

These guys are proposing the sending of energy via microwaves. That I believe, though certainly not sure of, would suggest a much more powerful for of microwaves, unlike that used for signals.

Microwaves only have a certain wavelength, so this belief that microwave type-a is worse than microwave type-b is false. Weaker and you get closer to radio signals and stronger you get closer to truly harmful radiation. Whether it is a radar signal, beam from space, or you cooking a frozen meal, they are the same, only powered and directed differently.

Energy transportation would require directed beams, thus not raining down on a large footprint, but just aiming at a collection point. Unless you were standing on the dish you wouldn't be in any danger. If it had a large footprint it would be extremely wasteful, thus not effective. It would have to be kept safe just to be effective. If any energy beaming microwaves were hitting people that would be a waste. Safety would be covered by efficiency.

 

[Joey D]

Microwave energy? Sounds like SimCity to me.

But you have to remember, here in America we think mobile phones will give you cancer because of the radiation it puts out, I can't imagine people would go for beams of energy...FROM SPACE...dunh dunh daaaaa.

 

[FoolKiller]

Microwave energy? Sounds like SimCity to me.

Which is based on real-life city building simulations. Notice most of these crazy alternative enegy sources aren't available without a lot of time and research. They are all based on theoretical ideas.

But you have to remember, here in America we think mobile phones will give you cancer because of the radiation it puts out, I can't imagine people would go for beams of energy...FROM SPACE...dunh dunh daaaaa.

Two things about the cell phone argument:
1) We still use them nonstop, so people ignore it more often than not.
2) Some people put wireless headsets in our ear to avoid cancer from wireless signals. And before someone says it, yes I know bluetooth is a different kind of signal, but I bet it is only a matter of time before someone thinks it may cause cancer too. I don't buy into the cell phone causing cancer theory, which is why mine is currently in my pocket, just inches from my crotch. If it causes cancer I am in for a world of hurt.