Okay, how do we get PD's attention about the AI?

[G25RJ]

BAH! NO! This site is just like all the other sites and my family reunion! No one ever lets me show off the pictures of me streaking!

But back to the AI issue. How was TOCA's AI better than GT4's? From what I played of TOCA, I noticed no huge differences, little ones here and there, but none overly huge.

That's because it’s a trade between graphics, physics and AI. The GT4 physics is way better than TOCA2’s physics and the graphics of the GT4 take the PS2 hardware to the limit.

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

Mostly, and this was a huge most for me, they were quite civil until you actually jostled one, then he, and only he, would go after you with a vengance. After a while he would mellow out. Also, the Honda seemed to have a different response than say the Vauxhall, bit this is conjeture, what is important is that they seemed to have a rudimentary personality. I used to love to trap one of them against a wall and watch it squirm like a fly under a microscope...
The GT4 thing is like computer cars vs the biological in an all out survival war to get one, or all, of them over the finish first. Whether they are capable or not is the only challenge.
BTW, I think that rear ramming thing is intentional, I have seen them sverve off the good line to try and hit me, sometimes fail and go off the track.

Really? I'll have to play it again and see for myself what your talking about. I only had a chance to play it for a weekend when my friend rented it. Didn't think it was all that great when I played it, but I might have to give it another chance for its AI value.

 

[[FPV]Rusty]

On the talk of the AI seemingly better in the vision gran turismo video, IMO i dont think its improved at all, they were jsut all crammed in and still only could figure out that you have to go off the racing line to pass someone after they are running into the back of them, more cars, more AI collisions, makes it look like they are actaully trying stuff, they werent blocking the person behind them, they were attempting to pass the one in front

 

[kikie]

What if PD makes THE perfect GT game for the PS3, perfect AI, perfect graphics and damage, etc... Is he going (KY) stop or is he going to start all over again with another title????

 

[Bilgewater]

I say we get five guys driving five boring Japanese cars with the windows painted black and wait outside his garage until he tries driving somewhere in one of his cars. We'll follow him all over Tokyo driving just like the AI he's forced so many of us to deal with.

 

[rk]

I say we get five guys driving five boring Japanese cars with the windows painted black and wait outside his garage until he tries driving somewhere in one of his cars. We'll follow him all over Tokyo driving just like the AI he's forced so many of us to deal with.

I want to be the one that whacks his ash to China when he stops for a pedestrian. A little twisted metal on Rte 246...

 

[un_peacekeeper]

What if PD makes THE perfect GT game for the PS3, perfect AI, perfect graphics and damage, etc... Is he going (KY) stop or is he going to start all over again with another title????

don't worry, he can always think of soemthing even better...it's KY!

 

[Consigliere]

I say we get five guys driving five boring Japanese cars with the windows painted black and wait outside his garage until he tries driving somewhere in one of his cars. We'll follow him all over Tokyo driving just like the AI he's forced so many of us to deal with.

Lol! 👍

 

[Zardoz]

What if PD makes THE perfect GT game for the PS3, perfect AI, perfect graphics and damage, etc...

You really think there's a danger of this, huh?

Let's hope so...

 

[capnlarge]

What if PD makes THE perfect GT game for the PS3, perfect AI, perfect graphics and damage, etc... Is he going (KY) stop or is he going to start all over again with another title????

There's always more cars and courses to add.

 

[kikie]

no comment, edited

 

[AdrenalineSRX]

Go to PD's development studio or whatever they call and protest with signs that say "Forza PWNS GT4's AI".

 

[DearS]

I speculate they know about it. I expect the limitation is the PS2 hardware. it takes power to render physics, control graphics (not just render), calculate A.I. ,perform random moves. etc etc..

the PS3 I expect will have an increase in all these abilities.

 

[Slicks]

The PS2 had limitations to work with, and the PS3 has vastly more resources.
GT5 should be a NO-COMPROMISES game. They have no reason I can see not to make it so.

 

[kikie]

Like I said before (somewhere), PD isn't going to make the AI (or GT5) perfect from the first attempt, ==> first GT for the PS3, that is.
It is a development of years. If he is going to make GT5 (PS3) perfect, then what??
KY, PD need to develop their GT babies for years to come. The AI, damage, graphics will be a developping process.
Do you think he is going to start with a whole new title (racing game) when GT5 should be perfect from his first attempt (on the PS3)??
The PS3 costs Sony a lot of money. Sony earns money from the GT series, PD can't and won't make GT5 (AI, ...) perfect.
Sorry, my English doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[SchuberT]

What if PD makes THE perfect GT game for the PS3, perfect AI, perfect graphics and damage, etc... Is he going (KY) stop or is he going to start all over again with another title????

I'm sure once KY figures out how to knock you around in real life every time you hit a wall in the game (signifying perfection in the game), people would quit playing GT.

But seriously..... there's no way to create "THE perfect GT game" because everyone has their different conceptions of what GT should be. Should it be a complete simulation of real life driving? Should it be fun and easily accessible to everyone? KY has to answer these questions every day of dev of GT.

IF PD just happens to make the PERFECT GT game for YOU in particular, chances are that in the next addition to the series, it won't be perfect for YOU any more, but it'd be that much closer to perfect for someone else.

 

[kikie]

Yes, yes, right!!
What I meant to say by "the perfect" game ==> the perfect game from his point of view. Not mine or somebody elses, this is just not achievable. GTR seems to get it right. There is a arcade, semi-... and simulation.

I'm sure once KY figures out how to knock you around in real life every time you hit a wall in the game (signifying perfection in the game), people would quit playing GT

A kind of Motion Simulator Platform . That's what I am waiting for to be released. But the real thing not something like "force Dynamics".
If KY (PD) can create something like that for GT2564, I'm gonna buy one.
Maybe I could take this Motion Simulator Platform to work instead of my car!!!
Sorry for the stupid joke

 

[FIDO69]

Seriously, If you want to get good AI's you have to change Kazunori's philosophy...

... the joy of driving turned into the nail biting anxiety of competition. It's not so much whether you will die gloriously, as it is whether you will be made the laughing stock of the pits because of your effort to return ratio.

So, to get him to provide an AI of even the quality in TOCA (for PSX) you would have to convince him that racing definately represents the ultimate refinement of the art of driving.

If we accept the fact that the joy of going swiflty down a twisty lane pleases the sub-cortical desire to apply the tools of ones enviroment to roam it freely, then it should be an easy extension to understand that the application of this ability in competition furthers excellence and satiates the desire to excel in the hunt (for the gold).

You make some good points here. This is really what it gets down to. Kaz does not believe that racing is the ultimate expression of driving. And neither do I.

I read an interview of Kaz where he talks, basically, about hotlapping. Incremental improvements on your time. A zen-like meditation. Rhythm. Kata. This is the beauty of driving to me, too.

I love the gold licences, I don't care a wit about "racing" -- even if the AI acted exactly like human beings (Turing Test, anyone?). Why? Because "racing" always involves IMPURE variables like: who's got the better car? who has the most money? Who's got the best mechanic? Did one driver knock another off the road? Was it a charge, or did the guy block? (it's worse than basketball officiating, in racing, people die).


The above is not to say that I wouldn't appreciate better AI. I just don't think it's more important than good driving physics. And I don't think that it is a necessary extension -- I'll buy GT5 regardless of the AI. (and 3 highly successful sequels to GT1 prove to me that you will too. No matter how "angry" people are on the net).

FIDO


(please, tell me why you think racing is such an "easy extension" of the ability to drive fast. Also, if you are a fan of any RL race series, tell me why. I find watching racing on TV to be incredibly boring. Outside of Danica Patrick, of course. She's HOT.)

 

[kikie]

Promise him (KY) a free copy of GT4 and he'll listen!!

 

[Dave A]

You make some good points here. This is really what it gets down to. Kaz does not believe that racing is the ultimate expression of driving. And neither do I.

I read an interview of Kaz where he talks, basically, about hotlapping. Incremental improvements on your time. A zen-like meditation. Rhythm. Kata. This is the beauty of driving to me, too.

I see things differently, while wht you said is true, ther is a lot of fun to be had from beating record laps ect there is no excuse to not give reomtely decent AI, if the cars you're against race fast, you're forced to push harder. Theres a huge element of fun missing in GT games, and that is the desire to win, the pressure of battle with the guy infront, the concentration needed to race fast and use a defensive line to block that guy behind you looking for a pass. Let me ask you, have you ever race online against skilled players? I have, I'm not overly skilled myself in the games I have played online, but when I'm against opponents who lap similar times to mine it's as close to a rush as you'll get playing games. You're whole idea of getting into a rhythem is so true, but it's even more so against hard to beat opponents, albeit ones who are aware of you're presence and won't barage you out of the way everytime you occupy the racing line.

 

[FIDO69]

...Theres a huge element of fun missing in GT games, and that is the desire to win, the pressure of battle with the guy infront, the concentration needed to race fast and use a defensive line to block that guy behind you looking for a pass.

Let me ask you, have you ever race online against skilled players? I have, I'm not overly skilled myself in the games I have played online, but when I'm against opponents who lap similar times to mine it's as close to a rush as you'll get playing games. You're whole idea of getting into a rhythem is so true, but it's even more so against hard to beat opponents, albeit ones who are aware of you're presence and won't barage you out of the way everytime you occupy the racing line.

I agree, the GT series lacks a lot of fun. Racing can be fun. But my point is just that it lacks purity of skill.

I've only done very limited racing online (is Forza worth it?) but one of the big problems is that there are no solid rules for blocking and passing. Like I said, it's worse than basketball. And even worse, the call (charge or block) is almost always decisive in deciding the winner. To me, that's a bad sport. When umpires, judges, or racing directors decide the winner of an event, it's a badly designed game.

 

[Dave A]

Racing, or driving as fast around fast moving traffic, ie other racers takes more skill than doing it on an empty track. The winner in GT racingis always the gy who's lapping fastest, short of a mechnical failure. Theres loads of passing going on in GT and touring car racing, and blocking an opponent unless right at the end of the race will usually mean going off line and having him attack you again. Watch the BTCC, theres some great races that go on in that especially between Muller and Plato, this is the kind of atmosphere I want in a GT game. As for rules, theres game out there that have them, like GTR, you get all the flags for cutting corners too deep, for ramming, driving the wrong way, you don't get away with it, a similar setup should be done for GT5. Back to the AI, what is the point in upping the grids to 22 cars when you'll lap every one of them in anything over 5 laps? Judges, umpires and racing directors don't decide who wins a race anyway, the only time a director steps in is if you knock someone off the track, say you did that to the leader on the last lap and won as a result, then they'd take the win off you, other than the rare occasions like that the director is just there to make sure drivers don't break the rules.

 

[Lee]

Well if the AI dont get any better thn i wont buy it... tht hows u hurt a company loads... by not givin it ur money..... sorted.