Olympic Doping - Russia Opens the Door to Criticism

[Danoff]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...rong_if_olympic_athletes_used_performanc.html

That's a real toughie. It's harder and harder to figure out what doping really is.

 

[Joel]

Yeah, I mean it's just getting tougher to draw the line with how many roundabout ways there are to give an athlete an edge these days. The training in the mountains concept is one thing but inhaling xenon seems to be a bit over the line.

I just don't know where leagues and the IOC can go with this, they're always going to be one step behind the next way to get an edge.

 

[Vegard]

I sometimes like to imagine what the 50K would look like if everybody was juiced!
It would probably be a 1,5 hour sprint heat

The Russians only exloited a grey area in the rules, nothing to say really.
WADA looks set to react though, according to Craig Reedie.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Literally they're right, you only do something 'wrong' in this context if it's wrong in the rules.

If it's not in the rules then everyone will start doing it until it is

 

[Omnis]

I know for a fact that most of the competitive throwers dope. Mostly the eastern europeans.

Xenon is not doping. They're just filling their lungs with heavy, inert gas to keep the oxygen out. Same effect as ultra-high altitude, more or less. Just mandate the athletes do a handstand before every training session... voila: doping gone.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Olympians doing things to get an advantage? No way.

 

[niky]

If it's not specifically banned by name or type, then it's fair game. That's the way sports have always been.

I think it's ingenious.

 

[Joey D]

I'm going to move this discussion here so we don't get off-topic:

Its main point of topic?

No, it isn't. I wasn't saying that Russian athletes should be banned because Russia is committed war crimes. I'm saying they should've been banned because they were cheaters and dopers long before the war even started. It shouldn't even be a thing where we're discussing whether to ban Russian athletes over Russia's illegal occupation of Ukraine and killing of innocent civilians, because the Russians shouldn't even be there in the first place.

You suggesting to ban innocent people. Those who was busted already banned.

I mean, when Russia (the state) is literally sponsoring doping and cheating among its athletes, then yes, it should be a blanket ban. If the MLB or NFL was sponsoring doping and cheating among its players, the entire league should suffer for that (and that's happened with the MLB). If the US were doping its athletes to send them to the Olympics, I would expect the entire US Olympics team to face the consequences of it. Do some US athletes dope? Yes, absolutely. The difference is the US government isn't sponsoring it like the Russian government is.

 

[Danoff]

I'm going to move this discussion here so we don't get off-topic:

No, it isn't. I wasn't saying that Russian athletes should be banned because Russia is committed war crimes. I'm saying they should've been banned because they were cheaters and dopers long before the war even started. It shouldn't even be a thing where we're discussing whether to ban Russian athletes over Russia's illegal occupation of Ukraine and killing of innocent civilians, because the Russians shouldn't even be there in the first place.

I mean, when Russia (the state) is literally sponsoring doping and cheating among its athletes, then yes, it should be a blanket ban. If the MLB or NFL was sponsoring doping and cheating among its players, the entire league should suffer for that (and that's happened with the MLB). If the US were doping its athletes to send them to the Olympics, I would expect the entire US Olympics team to face the consequences of it. Do some US athletes dope? Yes, absolutely. The difference is the US government isn't sponsoring it like the Russian government is.

It does seem fair to sanction a program that sponsors systematic cheating.

 

[inCloud]

I'm going to move this discussion here so we don't get off-topic:

It doesn't make sense to continue in that topic. In current situation its question of sanctions against Russia and ability for it citizens to stay as a part of civilized world. By alienating them only because of their passport, you just fueling conflict.

It does seem fair to sanction a program that sponsors systematic cheating.

Sure, that's why there is neutral flag concept.

 

[Dennisch]

Here is another thread about a couple of more incidents with Russia and the needles.


Maybe they can be merged.

 

[Liquid]

Every country cheats. Russia has been caught the most times.

 

[TheCracker]

Sure, that's why there is neutral flag concept.

But the neutral flag just becomes Russia under a different name. Everyone knows they're just Russian athletes. In effect, Russia in the eyes of the world, doesn't suffer from the ban.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Every country cheats. Russia has been caught the most times.

It will be a sad day if Bolt is found to have ever cheated.

 

[inCloud]

But the neutral flag just becomes Russia under a different name. Everyone knows they're just Russian athletes. In effect, Russia in the eyes of the world, doesn't suffer from the ban.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/widespread-doping-usage-russian-athletes.338383/post-12088985

 

[TheCracker]

Every country cheats. Russia has been caught the most times.

I think the main issue is that Russia's cheating has been state sanctioned. When athletes are found to have cheated no matter where they're from they get banned as individuals. When the state pretty much openly dopes their athletes, that punishment has to be state-wide.

 

[Joey D]

I think the main issue is that Russia's cheating has been state sanctioned. When athletes are found to have cheated no matter where they're from they get banned as individuals. When the state pretty much openly dopes their athletes, that punishment has to be state-wide.

Exactly. And this is why whether there was a war or not, Russian athletes do not belong in the Olympic games (and probably not in international sports as a whole).

 

[Joey D]

One step closer to ousting the known cheaters, it is a shame it took an invasion to do it.

IOC suspends Russian Olympic Committee

The Russian Olympic Committee has been suspended "with immediate effect", according to the International Olympic Committee.

www.bbc.com

 

[Joey D]

So apparently, the IOC are still cowards:

The IOC confirms Russian athletes can compete at Paris Olympics with approved neutral status

The International Olympic Committee says some Russian athletes will be allowed to compete at the 2024 Paris Olympics.

apnews.com

All the Russian athletes are going to do is dope under a neutral flag. No Russian should be allowed to compete internationally, no matter what flag they wave.

But if the IOC is going to allow this, if any Russian athlete is caught doping, the entire team should be disqualified. The same goes if they make any notion of support for their genocide.

 

[Carbonox]

With the IOC's decision making on this level, it doesn't really encourage one to have much faith in their ability to filter out all of the orc army members either.

 

[Blitz24]

With the IOC's decision making on this level, it doesn't really encourage one to have much faith in their ability to filter out all of the orc army members either.

Money and guilt (for those who have money) is the only thing the IOC cares about. FIFA and the IOC are two sides of the same coin when it comes to corruption.

 

[Joey D]

With the IOC's decision making on this level, it doesn't really encourage one to have much faith in their ability to filter out all of the orc army members either.

The IOC when they see someone being a Russian Nazi:

 

[Joey D]

Figure skater Valieva disqualified in Olympic doping case. Russians set to lose team gold to US

Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva has been disqualified from the 2022 Beijing Olympics. The verdict from the Court of Arbitration for Sport comes almost two years after Valieva's doping case caused turmoil at the Beijing Games.

apnews.com

Good, now ban the cheaters from competing in the Olympics full stop, even under that stupid "neutral flag".

 

[inCloud]

'Stop that urgently.' Possible path to innocence for Russian skater was held back at WADA's urging

When details from a scientific experiment that could have helped clear embattled Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva landed at the World Anti-Doping Agency, the leader of that organization’s reaction was unequivocal: “We have to stop that urgently,” he wrote.

apnews.com

 

[Joey D]

Russia is a nation of cheating athletes who get mad when they're not treated the same as other nations who don't have a rampant history of cheating. Boo hoo.

The report likely wouldn't have changed much of anything either:

On the one hand, to prove contamination, the world anti-doping code places the burden on athletes, not scientists or anti-doping agencies, to explain how banned substances got into their system — a burden that CAS ultimately said Valieva did not meet.

The doping athlete couldn't meet the burden of proof.

The bigger question here is not whether the cheating figure skater is innocent or not—she's clearly not under the guidelines—but whether WADA helped the Chinese.