[OPEN + LIMITED SPACES] European GT2 Series 2 - Finale 23rd October at Ring VLN!PS4 

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ROBQT
We are all very very competitive in this series I myself have been rushing a bit to make passes aswell as everyone, think a little more patience from all and try to give little more room being online more space is needed anyway, the races are long enough to catch up my race was ruined totally but the best fun so far, might sound cheesy but it's the taking part that counts :) can't wait till spa
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Seconded from the series organiser. Play nicely everyone :)
 
nissman
What bothered me here is, two corners after you spun me you were already trying to get pass me again. My tyres were still hot after the spin you caused. Normally a driver waits atlest a sector untill they atack again especially somebody they spun just moments before.



Yeah you didn't, but I lost the lead on first lap and probably the win.
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probably is a tricky word nissman. I remember race one you did spin me around while i was catching rick. ruining my chances of a probable P2. race one I also was hindered big time by a backmarker ruining my chances of keeping you behind me for a probable P3... I think we all fully understand and even feel your frustration as we have all been there at some point but thats racing with others on the track opposed to hotlapping. look at any real life racing series, mistakes happen all the time. and its nice to see it happen. its the human aspect. it adds to the overal ambiance surrounding a series. (if they are mistakes and not flagrantly pushing off). tom was putting the pressure on since turn one, taking other lines in and out the corner to get more speed out of it and challenge you. that was really nice to see. pity it did end in tears. I know your win will come as you def are the fastest of us all.
 
MightyL
probably is a tricky word nissman. I remember race one you did spin me around while i was catching rick. ruining my chances of a probable P2. race one I also was hindered big time by a backmarker ruining my chances of keeping you behind me for a probable P3... I think we all fully understand and even feel your frustration as we have all been there at some point but thats racing with others on the track opposed to hotlapping. look at any real life racing series, mistakes happen all the time. and its nice to see it happen. its the human aspect. it adds to the overal ambiance surrounding a series. (if they are mistakes and not flagrantly pushing off). tom was putting the pressure on since turn one, taking other lines in and out the corner to get more speed out of it and challenge you. that was really nice to see. pity it did end in tears. I know your win will come as you def are the fastest of us all.
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Probably is the most likely word what would happen on Monday. As I said I wasn't as annoyed about the first spin but about what happened afterwards in the last corner. There were many risky moves taken last race and in all the previous series I've done that would result in a penalty. As there are no penalties in this series, I just wanted to share my thoughts publicly so this hopefully doesn't happen again.

Also when I spun you in Zandvoort, I waited for you for over a lap if not two to cool your tyres and gather your thoughts before I start atacking again, and even then I only got past you with help of traffic.

Anyway it's racing and things happen I understand that, but still one would expect a tad cleaner racing come race day, races are usually not won on lap 1.
 
nissman
Probably is the most likely word what would happen on Monday. As I said I wasn't as annoyed about the first spin but about what happened afterwards in the last corner. There were many risky moves taken last race and in all the previous series I've done that would result in a penalty. As there are no penalties in this series, I just wanted to share my thoughts publicly so this hopefully doesn't happen again.

Also when I spun you in Zandvoort, I waited for you for over a lap if not two to cool your tyres and gather your thoughts before I start atacking again, and even then I only got past you with help of traffic.

Anyway it's racing and things happen I understand that, but still one would expect a tad cleaner racing come race day, races are usually not won on lap 1.
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I agree very much with you on the strive for clean racing. We should all look at ourselves and get better at it. I m not sure there r no penalties in this series as one can send complaints to andrew. I think penalties should be implemented...
 
How would we go about penalising people? We can't give grid penalties, or anything.

We could maybe give time penalties after the race?

5 seconds for unfairly driving a person off the road etc.
10/20 seconds for serious foul play?
 
pies1123
How would we go about penalising people? We can't give grid penalties, or anything.

We could maybe give time penalties after the race?

5 seconds for unfairly driving a person off the road etc.
10/20 seconds for serious foul play?
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I think there is no need to implement penalty system mid season, but yes something in that matter if we could use time penalties in AC but we can't as there is no race info whatsoever after the race. :odd:

In our EGT series we used point penalties and it worked quite well for us.


Driver Points Penalties:

-- Drivers will be given reprimands for minor incidents. Three reprimands - 2 Championship Point Penalty

-- Cutting Pit Exit Line - 1 Championship Point Penalty

-- Over Aggressive Driving or Illegal Blocking - 2 Championship Point Penalty

-- Ignoring Blue Flags - 2 Championship Point Penalty

-- Interfering/Destroying Competitors Hot Lap in Qualifying - 2 Championship Point Penalty

-- Running Another Car Off Track - 3 Championship Point Penalty (Depense on severity of incident)

-- Rejoining Track After an Off Without Regards To Oncoming Traffic - 3 Championship Point Penalty

-- Violation of Track Rules or Corner-Cutting - Disqualification from Race Results or up to 10 Championship Point Penalty (Depense on time gained)

-- Ramming/Causing Avoidable Collision - Disqualification from Race Results or up to 15 Championship point penalty
 
nissman
I think there is no need to implement penalty system mid season, but yes something in that matter if we could use time penalties in AC but we can't as there is no race info whatsoever after the race. :odd:

In our EGT series we used point penalties and it worked quite well for us.


Driver Points Penalties:

-- Drivers will be given reprimands for minor incidents. Three reprimands - 2 Championship Point Penalty

-- Cutting Pit Exit Line - 1 Championship Point Penalty

-- Over Aggressive Driving or Illegal Blocking - 2 Championship Point Penalty

-- Ignoring Blue Flags - 2 Championship Point Penalty

-- Interfering/Destroying Competitors Hot Lap in Qualifying - 2 Championship Point Penalty

-- Running Another Car Off Track - 3 Championship Point Penalty (Depense on severity of incident)

-- Rejoining Track After an Off Without Regards To Oncoming Traffic - 3 Championship Point Penalty

-- Violation of Track Rules or Corner-Cutting - Disqualification from Race Results or up to 10 Championship Point Penalty (Depense on time gained)

-- Ramming/Causing Avoidable Collision - Disqualification from Race Results or up to 15 Championship point penalty
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I reckon higher damage could help
 
I think @nissman makes a good point about the consequences of an off, especially if caused by another.

If your tyres have been fried from the spin or off, then you are effectively unable to defend your position should it be giving back to you by the offending person, they may be in a similar situation of course, but one would hope that if they are kind enough to give you the place back then, then they might also wait untill you ready to race at full strength again.

Of course there are a number of unknowns to try establish to make this work, but you could make a statement that can cover the situation a little.

For instance, if you are the instigator of such a incident, you must wait a full lap before trying to pass again!

There is also an argument that this is not true to the essence of racing, but without penalty systems or officials to oversee the race etc. We should be able to find a way that keeps things fair for our enjoyment.

If this still does not sit well, then perhaps you might ask yourself, "what am I here for?"

As maybe this will give you some self judgement to your actions before and after you attempt a pass etc.

Now, I'm not trying to suggest anyone is right or wrong about any incidents from the last or previous races, just offering my thoughts on the general subject.

If I answer my own question, I am here to have fun above all else. Becoming the overall winner or stand out racer is not of great interest, however having great battles for position is. I find having a race long fight for any position a real buzz, ultimately I would like to come out the victor but only if that is a consequence of clean and skillfull driving.

It really does not matter if it's last place on the grid, or even if I do not beat the other guy, if I come away with "that" adrenaline buzz, and a great story to talk about or watch back on my reply, that's worth as much as the race win.

If this ends up not being fun for everyone, then people will start to disappear from the series. Looking at the forums here on gtplant, they are very very quiet for AC. If we want such races to continue, we should at least try and work together to make this happen.

I think we are lucky to be on our second series with this group, and also lucky that we have a good level of mixed competition. I enjoy racing with you guys, as I know we all have some respect for each other, which to be fair, is a hard thing to find online.

Just my thoughts.

Laters :cheers:
 
hobbsy
I think @nissman makes a good point about the consequences of an off, especially if caused by another.

If your tyres have been fried from the spin or off, then you are effectively unable to defend your position should it be giving back to you by the offending person, they may be in a similar situation of course, but one would hope that if they are kind enough to give you the place back then, then they might also wait untill you ready to race at full strength again.

For instance, if you are the instigator of such a incident, you must wait a full lap before trying to pass again!
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I also agree with this. I had forgotten about the tyres overheating massively after a spin.
I should have waited before attempting to overtake nissman on the first lap (and hobssy in monza last season).
I think waiting a certain amount of time (eg 1 minute) is better as some laps are longer than others (nordschleife and to a lesser extent spa).
What happens if someone causes a crash and doesn't wait?

If a post race penalty system is introduced I assume everyone would be required to record their point of view, not necessarily upload it but have it in case its required, as otherwise it could be a case of he said she said and often even with one view of a crash you can't see enough.
Also who would decide the penalties? would it be Andrew or a group decision?
 
hobbsy
I think @nissman makes a good point about the consequences of an off, especially if caused by another.

If your tyres have been fried from the spin or off, then you are effectively unable to defend your position should it be giving back to you by the offending person, they may be in a similar situation of course, but one would hope that if they are kind enough to give you the place back then, then they might also wait untill you ready to race at full strength again.

Of course there are a number of unknowns to try establish to make this work, but you could make a statement that can cover the situation a little.

For instance, if you are the instigator of such a incident, you must wait a full lap before trying to pass again!

There is also an argument that this is not true to the essence of racing, but without penalty systems or officials to oversee the race etc. We should be able to find a way that keeps things fair for our enjoyment.

If this still does not sit well, then perhaps you might ask yourself, "what am I here for?"

As maybe this will give you some self judgement to your actions before and after you attempt a pass etc.

Now, I'm not trying to suggest anyone is right or wrong about any incidents from the last or previous races, just offering my thoughts on the general subject.

If I answer my own question, I am here to have fun above all else. Becoming the overall winner or stand out racer is not of great interest, however having great battles for position is. I find having a race long fight for any position a real buzz, ultimately I would like to come out the victor but only if that is a consequence of clean and skillfull driving.

It really does not matter if it's last place on the grid, or even if I do not beat the other guy, if I come away with "that" adrenaline buzz, and a great story to talk about or watch back on my reply, that's worth as much as the race win.

If this ends up not being fun for everyone, then people will start to disappear from the series. Looking at the forums here on gtplant, they are very very quiet for AC. If we want such races to continue, we should at least try and work together to make this happen.

I think we are lucky to be on our second series with this group, and also lucky that we have a good level of mixed competition. I enjoy racing with you guys, as I know we all have some respect for each other, which to be fair, is a hard thing to find online.

Just my thoughts.

Laters :cheers:
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Well said m8 nice one
 
I dont really agree with the having to wait sorry. Yes you have to be more careful but we should not regulate those things. What if the one in front of you makes a mistake as well or is slow out of the corner? Think it wd make no sense to stay behind.
But it would be good to have some kind of jury that can impose penalties.
In my gt6 days racing with some great brits the race was recorded and there were 3 people that did not take part in the race who would decide about penalties.
 
@MightyL yes good point, and this is the sort of thing that I was trying to refer to as the "unknowns"

I think whoever it is, that's involved in a bump/spin etc. has to be honest, if they clearly feel it's there fault and are prepared to give the place back, then I would assume that they want to take the position fairly, so to give the other person the best chance to defend it, allow them some time to get the car settled.

If they feel that the move was legit but something still happened, then it's a "racing incident" and maybe there is no need to give the place back or slow up.

It would be great if we had the numbers/interst for appointed officials, but until then...
And, do we need it? Is that the way Andrew wants this series run??

As it stands now we do have the option to voice our complaints to Andrew, if you have footage then that will help.

Again just my thoughts,

Looking forward to the next round, so must find some track time.

Laters
 
It has been interesting reading the comments here.

As mentioned by several of you, the process for incidents is to report them to me via a private message with footage and an explanation of what happened. Both sides of the argument are then considered and judgement is made.

I don't want to be handing out penalties; we should be having clean racing that doesn't require it. If there is an incident and someone is clearly at fault, then that person needs to wait for the other driver to get back on track ahead of them. That's a matter of common courtesy and I've have thought would be common sense. An apology on the forum is also well received as it shows everyone that the situation is resolved/being resolved and the guilty party has acknowledged their mistake.

If anyone else has had a viewpoint of an incident then their feedback is also welcome via private message to myself, referencing who was involved and the lap/corner with footage if possible.

Having damage this season was meant to be a deterrent, but as suggested, we might need to increase the strength of it. What I don't want to do is bump it up to 100% straight away - a tiny mistake or someone being stupid can ruin your race. Granted, that's not 100% realistic, but at the end of the day this is still a game and we all want to have fun. Getting taken out on the first lap and having to do a pointless recovery drive to try and scrape some points together probably isn't appealing for anyone.

And I'm looking forward to Spa as well :)
 
Ok then, anyone got some times down yet?

Looking back at the first round, 2:18.4 was the pole lap with a high 2:21 being about average!

I'm at the 2:20 ish mark, so looks like I have some work to find pace with @MightyL !!!

I wonder where @nissman and @Cuber Tom will come in at, as our resident Aliens, it will give us a good idea how much pace there is out there...

Or maybe MightL has this circuit mastered!!!

Who knows, look forward to hearing where your at.

Laters
 
Well you say, but I've been running softs in the Ferrari and they have been lasting the full race, with good pace still at the end.

Admittedly, when I was in the BMW last time, I struggled to make the softs work, and the mediums tended to be a better choice!
 
hobbsy
Well you say, but I've been running softs in the Ferrari and they have been lasting the full race, with good pace still at the end.

Admittedly, when I was in the BMW last time, I struggled to make the softs work, and the mediums tended to be a better choice!
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It's a case of I could stretch out the softs but I'd have less than ideal grip at the end. Going for the safe option!
 
andrew1990
It's a case of I could stretch out the softs but I'd have less than ideal grip at the end. Going for the safe option!
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I have to manage my tyres in the vette it's not really the car for me but it's more predictable on n over limit I have to use softs all the time
 
hobbsy
Ok then, anyone got some times down yet?

Looking back at the first round, 2:18.4 was the pole lap with a high 2:21 being about average!

I'm at the 2:20 ish mark, so looks like I have some work to find pace with @MightyL !!!

I wonder where @nissman and @Cuber Tom will come in at, as our resident Aliens, it will give us a good idea how much pace there is out there...

Or maybe MightL has this circuit mastered!!!

Who knows, look forward to hearing where your at.

Laters
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20's all day race trim occasionally in the 19's can't really do any better hot lapping not sure why:(
 
I must admit that I'm gonna be struggling today, I have been running some 20 laps or so right as I'm typing, and I have a very good setup, both for qualifying, and the race. I'm in the 2:21.221, that was the best I could do, strangely enough, that lap time was set on mediums, with tyre pressures 20 20 19 19. I also got my PS Plus Membership updated, so I will be in the race tonight guys. :cheers:
 

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