Overboost button?

[Martinmaxx]

Wouldn´t it be great if we could get extra boost during races in turbocharged cars? We could use it in the straights to easily pass cars.

It would be even better if we could directly adjust boost during races. Maybe we could have 4 preset boost levels, which may be selected with the touch of a button (are there any still available?).

This option would be very usefull in enduro races, and if engine damage is finally implemented in the game. Then, If you use too much boost during a long period of time, you could overheat the engine and have a significant power loss, and maybe have to pay a complete engine rebuild.

Another way to overheat and damage the engine could be by using too many revs. Therefore, in enduro races, you should not only watch for tire wear, but also boost and revs.

We have already seen some evidence that fuel consumption will be implemented, so boost and revs can also affect it.

Imagine racing an enduro or any kind of race, and finding that your engine/oil temp is getting hotter, and having to use less revs to cool the engine. Maybe you could even have to let pass some opponents in order to save the engine and finish the race. Just as in real life. This could make races much more interesting and competitive.

Tell me what you all think about these ideas.

MARTIN

 

[Freddie]

I don't like the idea, it's just like nitrous - more power for a shorter period of time. Altough I'm aware it's used in normal road cars, mostly diesels I believe, for by-passing slower vehicles, the difference is that in road cars the turbos run only at a partial effect, over-boost (full boost) only being activated under such conditions as in the situation I mentioned. In a turbocharged race-car or similar, turbos are active whenever possible, and under full acceleration run at full effect, thus there is no additional boost to gain. So in the end it would not only be like having nitrous, it would also be unrealistic.

To put it this way, I'm against any kind of super-boost systems (nitrous/over-boost/rocket fuel/whatever) in racing games. I don't mind it in drag-racing, but on circuits control is crucial - that's why such systems are outlawed in RL.

 

[Martinmaxx]

I am sorry not to agree with Freddie. In RL, when F1 cars had turbos, drivers could alter the turbo boost during races with a knob on the dashboard. They even had a button on their steering wheels to have extra boost for passing vehicles. Pressing that button often gave them an extra 100hp!!

Current turbo GT race cars also have it, as well most turbo tuned cars. If you have watched Best Motoring videos (which is the real life essence of the Gran Turismo series), you should have seen tuned Skylines from Esprit or Mines using this extra boost during races.

I understand that it may be an unfair advantage, but using it too much should also have its consecuences (engine damage, excessive fuel consumption, etc). Using it can make you win a race, or lose it.

I am sure that this features may contribute to making the game more competitive and entertaining, which is what we all want!

Any other opinions?

 

[The359]

And how many real cars besides open wheel F1/CART cars have that? None.

So no, never put it it, it'll just turn GT into Need for Speed Underground, which we don't need.

 

[Martinmaxx]

Any stage 3 or 4 turbo mod will include the option to adjust boost from inside the car while driving, so why shouldn´t Gran Turismo allow it?

 

[Freddie]

Originally posted by Martinmaxx
I am sorry not to agree with Freddie. In RL, when F1 cars had turbos, drivers could alter the turbo boost during races with a knob on the dashboard. They even had a button on their steering wheels to have extra boost for passing vehicles. Pressing that button often gave them an extra 100hp!!

Current turbo GT race cars also have it, as well most turbo tuned cars. If you have watched Best Motoring videos (which is the real life essence of the Gran Turismo series), you should have seen tuned Skylines from Esprit or Mines using this extra boot during races.

I stand corrected. Haven't seen many Best Motoring videos though, so I won't comment on that part.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

Not to be sacastic or something, but this overboost thing is bull. This doesn't reflect any sense of being Gran Turismo. If you like boost-type racing games, play the ricer games, NFS-U, Burnout, and Midnight Club.

 

[Martinmaxx]

I don´t mind you being sarcastic, but I insist : if a turbo tuned car in RL has this feature, Gran Turismo should also have it. If you race a normal turbo engine w/o any mods, no boost alterations should be allowed. But if you have done serious modifications to the turbine/intercooler/etc, why do you think that boost cannot be altered while driving? Why should this not reflect "Gran Turismo sense"? Do you think that professional japanese drivers such as Tsuchia are not reflecting Gran Turismo sense while driving on Best Motoring or Hot Version?

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

Hmmm, I still kinda a bit hesitant about it.

 

[Dave A]

Originally posted by Martinmaxx
I don´t mind you being sarcastic, but I insist : if a turbo tuned car in RL has this feature, Gran Turismo should also have it. If you race a normal turbo engine w/o any mods, no boost alterations should be allowed. But if you have done serious modifications to the turbine/intercooler/etc, why do you think that boost cannot be altered while driving? Why should this not reflect "Gran Turismo sense"? Do you think that professional japanese drivers such as Tsuchia are not reflecting Gran Turismo sense while driving on Best Motoring or Hot Version?

No, it shouldn't, there are so few times in motorsports where it's allowed it's not worth it, besides the name Gran Turismo is inline with GT racing and cars tuned to race, not indy cars or F1 cars. It's good that Gran Turismo expands on the GT racing theme, but it would be annoying and arcadish having only a couple of series where you can boost, if anything it should only be allowed in drag racing.

 

[GTO_VR4]

Overboost button? No.

 

[Martinmaxx]

I don´t understand why you wouldn´t want to be able to alter boost during a race, and at the same time most surelly accepting a stage 3 or 4 turbo option.

The overboost feature would be like driving on a stage 1 turbo, and at the press of a button having stage 2 boost (or more if you can select separate boost levels). It would be great driving on lower boost to help drivability during tight sections of the track, and then take advantage of high boost on the straights. Or just have it as a reserve in case you need it. Depending on your race strategy. As I said before, this feature would be most usefull and logical if fuel consumption and engine damage are also implemented.

I am not trying to convince anyone here. It is just that I think it could be a nice feature. Maybe Polyphony has already included it in the game... Who knows!! We must wait until final release.

Cheers to all, and thanks for your opinions!

 

[Dave A]

Because it doesn't happen in real life GT. Besides I'm hoping that the Bhp limits return and that would mean your car would have to be well under the limit if you wanted to give it a 100Bhp boost at any time, but still, hell no, no, no, no, no, NO .

 

[ZEE]

We could use it in the straights to easily pass cars.

If you were good enough driver in the game, u wouldnt need fancy gadgets like you said from the "undeground world"to pass the competition in straight lines.

It seems childish and does not deserve to be in a game like Gran Turismo.

 

[Martinmaxx]

If you do not want this feature in GT4, don´t say that it is b/c it does not exist in R/L. It DOES exist. Most (or every) turbo race cars have adjustable boost from inside the car. You name it : Ferrari F40 GT LM, Porsche 962 LM, all turbo Gr. B race cars, turbo Formula 1s, Cart, rallycross cars, etc.

As for using it in the straights, why not? It is not a matter of being a "good enough driver". And my topic does not refer only to the "overboost button", but also to being able to adjust it in several levels. Full boost is not necessary until the straights. Instead of using Stage 4 turbo all the time, you could use it only when you need it, and if you need it. The advantage is that you can alter the boost during a race, and not having to wait to change it as a complete part before a race.

If we had changing weather conditions during a race, we could lower the boost setting under wet conditions and rise it when dry. Or you could lower the boost to prolong tire life, as well as the engine´s health. There are plenty of possibilities, just as real life!!

 

[shopping_carts_]

why wouldnt you just go change it before the race begins...that way you dont have to go through all the hassle of adjusting boost in the middle of a race and losing all of your concentration

 

[Martinmaxx]

For the same reason that pit stops exist : to add more excitement to the race!! Why do you think that cars change tires during a race? They could just use harder tires from the start, right? And how about fuel? They could just use a bigger tank. But in real life they change tires and add fuel.

And how about roll bars? It is the same case. Race cars have adjustable roll bars from inside the car. It is to adjust the handling of a car to road and tire condition, fuel load, etc. Boost can also affect handling as it may induce more under or over steer, as well as engine and tire wear.

Gimme a good logical reason.

 

[GTO_VR4]

Here, to summerize martinmaxx post :


"Wouldnt it be great to have a BOOST CONTROLLER in turbocharged vehicles"?


Me - I wouldnt mind it

 

[shopping_carts_]

i dont think it'd that cool of a feature because it would take away drafting...i personally think drafting is a fun aspect of racing...and like imagine it at the test course...youd just be on full boost for the whole race and it wouldnt be as fun as drafting and staying just behind the car infront until the last lap...then pulling to the side and rocketing ahead just as you cross the finish line...with boost you wouldnt have to go through all that youd just press a button and poof there you go

 

[Martinmaxx]

Extra boost buttons and boost controllers are not ment to be on or set to its highest levels all the time. Otherwise you would not need them. They are ment to be used only when needed, based on your race strategy, race position, remaining laps, etc.

In a hipotetical race at the Test Course, if engine damage and fuel consumption were implemented, you would be very carefull with the boost levels used. Otherwise you may end up with a blown engine or frequent fuel stops. So using full boost does not automatically win races.

 

[LaBounti]

Originally posted by The359
And how many real cars besides open wheel F1/CART cars have that? None.

So no, never put it it, it'll just turn GT into Need for Speed Underground, which we don't need.

Thats a matter of opionion. I'll take the Need For Speed Undreground aspec in GT to go right along with the other types of cars and style.

"This doesn't reflect any sense of being Gran Turismo"

Since when did you produce the game to know what its about. GT1 had boost control. Tuned turbo cars have on the fly boost control.

"I don´t understand why you wouldn´t want to be able to alter boost during a race"

Becuase allot of people are close minded ,dont like new ideas or have there own personal definition of what Gran Turismo is.

"It seems childish and does not deserve to be in a game like Gran Turismo"

Yet another self defining coment as if they know Mr. Yamauchi.

Give it up Martinmaxx. No matter how much sence you make there will be haters (people of dissagree)

 

[8400RPM]

To me this idea goes totally against the GT way. Maximizing straight line speed in GT games is all about taking the best line out of the last corner prior to the straight. This boost adjusting just seems like a cheat to me that makes that exit speed meaningless. Just too Need For Speed for me. And I believe you that some real race cars have this feature but I don't believe it is all that common. I think more often than not boost is adjusted in the garage and not on the track.


I like your idea of engine overheating and adjusting your revs to compensate for that effect though.

 

[bushtrees]

Originally posted by 8400RPM
To me this idea goes totally against the GT way. Maximizing straight line speed in GT games is all about taking the best line out of the last corner prior to the straight. This boost adjusting just seems like a cheat to me that makes that exit speed meaningless. Just too Need For Speed for me.

What a stupid comment. I dont want to attack you personally and i'm glad you input your opinion. But really, how is it cheating and how does it make the game meaningless. Just because you can add some horses doesnt mean you WILL win and that you dont need to race good lines. Also GT games arent ALL about taking the best line ( ok they are ), you already can change your HP . Its not as if you cant already change your HP: oil changes. Even going to the auto shop and putting on a stage 2 na tune will increase your power, obviously. therefore giving you an advantage in power than having a stock car.

If the "GT way" was only to take the best line to gain a good straight line speed ( which it is, but there are other things that help like HP) there would be no upgrades and your car would remain stock. GT has always had the option to change HP and allowing it during a race is just another addition to realism. Its not really that outrageous to do this, as someone else pointed it out is done in many race cars. There are race cars in gt4 and to include it would just make it more realistic, not more NFS.

I'm sure i could've made this post shorter but i just kept rambling....sorry.

 

[P2C]

IMO,

This is a feature that should be included in GT if the original car you race with feature this in real life.

You can not say it is not a good idea if the real car feature extra boost. You can not say it is something that as to be on all turbo cars if they do not feature this IRL.

I'm sure you all agree with that.

In fact I hope the original idea of this post was not to just add overboost buton like in mariokart or other arcade based games.

Just give us reality on our TV and let people discover GT4 improvements.

 

[Martinmaxx]

PS2C : If you check my complete post, you will see that I am not trying to get an unfair advantage by getting an arcadish turbo boost feature.

8400RPM : If you think that boost controllers are not that common on race cars, please give us many examples of race or tuned cars not having them. I cannot think of any. Maybe current WRC rally cars, but most surelly all these features are now computer controlled, and maybe selected from their incar touch-screen menus.

LaBounti : You are right about the boost control feature in GT1. I didn´t remember that. Sadly, you could only change it under setting menu, and not in-race (it was cool to see how the power/torque curves changed when boost was altered).

What I want is to be able to adjust boost within a race. Either by several boost steps or by an overboost feature. Instead of using full boost from a stage 2, 3 or 4 turbo all the time, I would like to use as little as possible to stay competitive and being able to finish the race without damaging the engine mid race.

As you can see, the only way to do this correctly is by also implementing engine damage and fuel consumption (higher boost = overheating + less MPG). We should be provided with water temp and fuel gauges. Otherwise it would be meaningless and unreal.

Another cool feature associated to boost and engine damage would be having variable weather conditions. Not only a wet or dry track, but mainly outside temperature variations (maybe also wind). As in R/L, If the outside temp was too high, you would be lowering the boost settings to avoid overheating, and using full boost only if necessary and for short periods of time. In NA cars you could use less revs. It is part of turbo vs NA duel. I see this all the time in the Best Motoring enduro races. It adds to the excitement of all races.

I´d like to be proved wrong about my suggestion, but until now none has indicated valid arguments (other than "personal" preferences).

 

[The359]

Martinmaxx, why are you fighting so hard for something that you and I and everyone else knows wont make it into the game?

Don't you think we have more realistic concerns to get into the game first then some boost button? Damage, fuel, more cars, etc...

 

[Martinmaxx]

The359 : All your concerns are valid. But there is not a predetermined priority order for them or mine. Fuel, cars or damage not necesarilly come first than boost controller. Besides, I believe that a boost controller/overboost feature are much more simpler to implement than for example "damage". Don´t you think?

 

[Greyout]

some of you are a bit too sure of yourselves...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=21&article_id=1235&page_number=4#4

2004 CART season Premiere:

The big news for 2004 is the new "push-to-pass system" that gives the drivers an extra 50 horsepower with the push of a button on the steering wheel. But the horsepower boost is available for a total of only 60 seconds per race for what Champ Car says is "the equivalent to five applications on the average main straightaway of a Champ Car circuit." It will be very interesting to see what race strategies develop with this new tool (use a good boost at the drop of the green flag to gain some easy places, conserve all the boost until the end of the race, etc.). This new system should all but eliminate the zero-lead-change snoozefest we saw with the first Formula 1 race this season at the Australian Grand Prix.

Races will be slightly shorter — approximately 1 hour 45 minutes instead of 2 hours — to insure time for post-race interviews.


Le Mans cars also have driver-selectable fuel & ignition maps. They can run one map for maximum power... then with a push of a button, switch to a conservative map that saves fuel at the cost of some power, if the need to stretch a tank of gas a few extra laps arrises.

 

[Dave A]

People listen, GT is not about Kart racing, Forumla one, Formula ford or whateve, the only thing that might be a game enhancing feature is the fuel and ignition maps, although for any lenth of race found in a GT game it's pretty pointless. GT racing cars do not use an extra boost, and to the guy that said GT1 has this feature it didn't, you could pre select what level you wanted the turbo to run at, but not during a race. Also as I said in my last post, most pople are hoping for the Bhp limits to return, tyou can't have a 499Bhp car running in a 500Bhp limited series and push a button to gain an extra 25-50Bhp, if you wanted a feature like that you'd have to have the car at 450Bhp and thats stupid too when you could have it at 499 all through the race. Gran Turismo is about Gran Turismo not all these races that you've mentioned. And read my previouse post before you reply, because I'm not repeating ANY of it.

 

[Martinmaxx]

Live4speed : I think you have your facts all wrong. If the GT series is not about F1 cars, then why do you think that many of them were included in GT3? Maybe the producers of the game made a mistake. What do you think? If you define GT as something like the GT FIA series, then please be noted that Ferrari F40 GT1, Lotus Esprit GT1 and Porsche 911 (993) GT2 all had boost controllers from inside the car. Finally, if you define GT as road cars converted for track use, then (as I said before), any car with a stage 3 or 4 turbo will feature a boost controller inside the car. Just check any tuner´s web page and you can confirm this yourself.

Concerning power limits, if your engine could suffer damage from excessive boost, most surelly you would not make full use of it all the time. And don´t tell us you need 499HP to win in an up to 500HP category. Most fun comes from being able to win with the least possible power (with maybe some extra boost help).