Overdrive Gears?

[GTCr@zyPSP]

I'm not saying all american cars are underpowered. However, a saleen and the GT are understandable. I was just a tad bit unsure of why the mustang was only capable of 140-148. I did test course with it thats how I got the 140-148. Thats with 296 horsepower. I had no idea that the mustang ( both in the game and in real life) have a overdrive gear. That's actually genius.

The Mustang is a budget sport car, econo sport car, or a poor mans sport car... Its CHEAP...

But wait, the 2011 Stang is getting the power upped to 412hp mated to a 6spd tranny. that should make it a faster car

Most cars have over drive gears being automatic or manual.

You must of looked at it wrong, it Goes 157mph completely Stock (R3 tires) at the Test Track Big O. With all its 296hp. Up the power to 360hp and she will touch 172mph...

157mph is pretty fast, that's 252klm/h. Pretty much doubling the north American speed limits...

 

[Lancia stratos]

I drove the cars in De La Sarthe with S3's. But I'm very interested in seeing the 400hp version.

 

[GTCr@zyPSP]

I drove the cars in De La Sarthe with S3's. But I'm very interested in seeing the 400hp version.

http://www.ford.com/about-ford/news...ail/pr-2011-ford-mustang-gt-leads-class-32210

 

[Lancia stratos]

One word......epic

so with the pontiac GTO, did they add a overdrive gear in this car too within this game?

 

[GTCr@zyPSP]

One word......epic

so with the pontiac GTO, did they add a overdrive gear in this car too within this game?

Pretty much all modern cars have an overdrive gear with few exceptions, I can check what the gearing is for the GTO to see if it has 2.



Yup, she does

Tremec T56 / 6-speed manual

First: 2.97:1
Second: 2.07:1
Third: 1.43:1
Fourth: 1.00:1
Fifth: 0.84:1 (overdrive gear)
Sixth: 0.57:1 (overdrive gear)
Reverse: 3.28:1
Final drive ratio: 3.46:1

Hydra-Matic 4L60-E / 4-speed electronic automatic

First: 3.06:1
Second: 1.63:1
Third: 1.00:1
Fourth: 0.70:1 (overdrive gear)
Reverse: 2.30:1
Final drive ratio: 3.46:1

Click here for Source

GT PSP

First: 2.97:1
Second: 2.07:1
Third: 1.43:1
Fourth: 1.00:1
Fifth: 0.84:1 (overdrive gear)
Sixth: 0.57:1 (overdrive gear)
Reverse: 3.28:1
Final drive ratio: 3.46:1

Again, GTPSP is using the real world gear ratios..

Any gear that is < 1 is an overdrive gear, the ZR1 has 2, but its a high performance close ratio 6spd, vs the Mustangs 5spd eccono gearbox. The Stangs 5th is basically a Highway cruising gear while the ZR1's gearing is close and its got enough power to keep pushing strong in 5th & 6th.

 

[GTCr@zyPSP]

One word......epic

so with the pontiac GTO, did they add a overdrive gear in this car too within this game?

Pretty much all cars have an overdrive gear with few exceptions, I can check what the gearing is for the GTO to see if it has 2.

Yup, she does

Pontiac GTO Gearing

Tremec T56 / 6-speed manual

First: 2.97:1
Second: 2.07:1
Third: 1.43:1
Fourth: 1.00:1
Fifth: 0.84:1 (overdrive gear)
Sixth: 0.57:1 (overdrive gear)
Reverse: 3.28:1
Final drive ratio: 3.46:1

Hydra-Matic 4L60-E / 4-speed electronic automatic

First: 3.06:1
Second: 1.63:1
Third: 1.00:1
Fourth: 0.70:1 (overdrive gear)
Reverse: 2.30:1
Final drive ratio: 3.46:1

Click here for Source

GT PSP

First: 2.97:1
Second: 2.07:1
Third: 1.43:1
Fourth: 1.00:1
Fifth: 0.84:1 (overdrive gear)
Sixth: 0.57:1 (overdrive gear)
Reverse: 3.28:1
Final drive ratio: 3.46:1

Again, GTPSP is using the real world gear ratios..

Any gear that is < 1 is an overdrive gear, the ZR1 has 2, but its a high performance close ratio 6spd, vs the Mustangs 5spd eccono gearbox. The Stangs 5th is basically a Highway cruising gear while the ZR1's gearing is close and its got enough power to keep pushing strong in 5th & 6th.

 

[Lancia stratos]

This totally meets up with the phrase "The real driving simulator"

 

[GTCr@zyPSP]

This totally meets up with the phrase "The real driving simulator"

Thats the truth Bro..

 

[Lancia stratos]

Sure is.

Now that the overdrive gear confusion I had eariler moved out of the way, what about the camaro ss and the grand sport? When 3 2 1 go is out of the way, they take their sweet time starting.

 

[GTCr@zyPSP]

Sure is.

Now that the overdrive gear confusion I had eariler moved out of the way, what about the camaro ss and the grand sport? When 3 2 1 go is out of the way, they take their sweet time starting.

Go to the test track and run a time trial, when it starts aproach the Starting line, and place your front bumper on it. Keep an eye on your timer to insure you dont cross it and trip start the timer.

Make sure your in first, then rev up and launch.

When you hit the 400m mark (1/4 mile) it will give you a 1/4 mile time (it only appears for a sec, then goes away) it will do the same for the 1000m.

What are they running in the 1/4 mile & 1000m pull?

The Stang, runs a 13.4 completely Stock except for tires (R3 tires)

Real World Stock Mustang 1/4 mile times

The 2000 Camaro SS should be pretty much the same, running low 13's

 

[WesWelker83]

I get the ZR1 up to 220mph completely stock minus R3 tires, no tuning at all. Same conditions I got the Mustang up to 157mph.

Corvette ZR1 09
Top Speed: 220mph
Power: 639hp
Weight: 1508kg

Mustang GT 05
Top Speed: 157mph
Power: 296hp
Weight:1568kg

Differences

Speed: 63mph

Power: 343hp

Weight: 60kg

Corvette ZR1 is MUCH more drag efficient and designed to be stable at 200mph speeds.....

that's one thing I find interesting, in real life the ZR1 has a 206mph top speed which based on it's horsepower, 220mph seems more likely. the Enzo does 225-230mph in real life. reminds me of the way the McLaren F1 impresses me the most, it has only 627hp yet it does 230mph with the REV limiter on but will reach 240mph with it off.

anyways, the most impressive american car to me handling wise is the Dodge Viper SRT10. it handles far better than expected. it's very true to real life too, it's not the most precise handling car but it's a hell of alot of fun to drive and it still handles great considering

 

[GTCr@zyPSP]

that's one thing I find interesting, in real life the ZR1 has a 206mph top speed which based on it's horsepower, 220mph seems more likely.

Factory limited, when in the game they remove the speed governors.

So the ZR1 might be able to pull off 220mph if the governors are removed.

And your Right, the SRT10 is a huge step up from the previous Viper models, It actually can be driven around corners with some seriousness.

 

[GNX]

I see the same behavior with the GNX. It just does not perform like any of the machines I see on youtube, and that's for the non-GNX models. It doesn't even feel like the T-Types and one Grand National that I've driven. Quite honestly it feels much more like my non-turbo 1985 Regal. Right down to the handling. Now, I've never ever pushed a car the way I do in GT, but even at low speeds the GNX just doesn't feel quite as sporty as it's real life counterpart. A fellow GT'r ran some test in career & arcade and came to the conclusion that in arcade it is closer in straight line performance to the real word. I feel that either mode is a weak representation of the true life performance, but that's just me. ;-)

That all said, the GNX continues to be my #1 car of choice. ;-) I've learned to just accept the games representation. Makes victories that much more sweeter. :-)

I'll go on the record and state that the GNX is one of several cars they'll get wrong in GT5. Be it in performance or in modeling (Graphics, Sound, Details). Though I wont like it, but I'll understand, it's just not that popular of a car. Can't wait for it though.

 

[GTCr@zyPSP]

I see the same behavior with the GNX. It just does not perform like any of the machines I see on youtube, and that's for the non-GNX models. It doesn't even feel like the T-Types and one Grand National that I've driven. Quite honestly it feels much more like my non-turbo 1985 Regal. Right down to the handling. Now, I've never ever pushed a car the way I do in GT, but even at low speeds the GNX just doesn't feel quite as sporty as it's real life counterpart. A fellow GT'r ran some test in career & arcade and came to the conclusion that in arcade it is closer in straight line performance to the real word. I feel that either mode is a weak representation of the true life performance, but that's just me. ;-)

I'll go on the record and state that the GNX is one of several cars they'll get wrong in GT5. Be it in performance or in modeling (Graphics, Sound, Details). Though I wont like it, but I'll understand, it's just not that popular of a car. Can't wait for it though.

What?!?!?! The GNX ain't that popular of a car?!?!?! Dude its the baddest Grand Nat put out, the only reason its in the game at all is because of how popular of a car the Grand Nat is, and how special the GNX model is...

They get the GNX as close as they get pretty much all the cars in the game (Grand Nationals are a personal favorite of mine) Sick ass car.

Forget about what you see on youtube, they have been aftermarket parts built for it since the 80's when it was a Stang Vs Grand Nat world, its very hard to tell a Stock G'Nat from a Sleeper like that.

BUT Are you talking GT4 or GT PSP? There is no Arcade mode in GT PSP... So your probably just enjoying the higher grip levels & more forgiving physics of the Arcade mode in GT4...

If you are talking GT4 then check this out Click here for a Kick Ass GNX Set up for GT4

With only just over 500 GNX's built, & being production stopped 23 years ago they are RARE...

Unfortunately GT PSP is displayed on a 2d screen, The "feeling of acceleration & speed" is not fully relayed, so no car in the game TRULY feels like its real world counterpart, it can't, they all "Feel" slower then they are in the real world, you cant really "Feel" the acceleration at all. What you need to do is some comparisons test against real world stats for the car...

Have you done some Acceleration comparisons GRan Turismo Vs Real world stats for the car? Or is it just how it "feels" in the game that your commenting on?

Real World
13.4 1/4 mile

GT PSP
13.7 1/4 mile (That's what I got on the 2 1/4 mile pulls I did in GT PSP)

That was pretty fast for 1987

I'm sure I can dig out the .3 of a second difference, but that's pretty much spot on as to what the GNX would do from the factory back in 87. So as far as acceleration its right where it should be....

As far as handling goes, it drives just like you would expect it to, simple as that. They didn't focus the majority of their attention on supper fine handling, its Still an 80's American car, and is a Tribute to Buick's participation in NASCAR, winning the NASCAR Grand National racing series in 81 & 82. lol...

Visually How have they got it wrong?

I will give it to you for sound, pretty much all the cars in GT4 are not as "Loud" as they should be, as far as the exhaust, and engine note goes.

Ill go on the record to say your wrong about the GNX, and to assume they will not get it right in GT5 is ridiculous, especially after they did such a great job with it in GT4/GT PSP.

I'm a guy who does drive his car as hard as I do in GT. Yes, at the local track...

Buick Grand National Having Fun at New York PS2 GT

 

[Lancia stratos]

So if they had removed overdrive gears, how fast do you think they can go?

 

[GTCr@zyPSP]

So if they had removed overdrive gears, how fast do you think they can go?

Usually 4th gear is 1 to 1 or really close to it.

Its more about the Power of the vehicle and Final drive gear. You can stretch out the FD, and get her to top of in forth, but you need to stretch it far to get to the top speed, effectively getting the car to the same speed, but it will take a longer time to get there.

Overdrive gears are not the issue, with the stang, you can raise the 5th gear from 68:1 to 79:1 and when you grab the gear it will get to the Top speed quicker, but it will still reach pretty much the same top speed. Ford has it long for highway cruising (that's why the RPM's fall and take a while to build back up when grabbing 5th), where as more performance oriented cars don't stretch it out so far.

Think of it like a merry-go-round. When you start to spin it, it takes a lot of torque to get it moving, but as it spins it get easier and easier, when at speed, you just need to give it light taps to keep her spinning at speed, not requiring the same torque as it did to initially get the merry-go-round started.

In a Car the first gear multiplies the torque through the gearing to generate enough power to get the car moving, the faster the car goes, the less power is required, so each gear progressively reduces the multiplication of the engine torque. 4th gear is usually 1:1. after 4th because the car is already at speed, it doesn't need to increase power through gearing, the overdrive gear allows us to keep the car going faster, at the cost of reduced torque. Basically the output speed is greater than the input speed from the crank.

 

[Lancia stratos]

This makes me want to adjust the gear ratios in that car in GT4.

The thing is, I raced a lancia stratos (regular 186 HP, not rally.) and it passed the GTO no problem. I wonder if RPM also plays a role to it. This thread is shedding some light to the mystery of the 5th gear.

 

[GTCr@zyPSP]

This makes me want to adjust the gear ratios in that car in GT4.

The thing is, I raced a lancia stratos (regular 186 HP, not rally.) and it passed the GTO no problem. I wonder if RPM also plays a role to it. This thread is shedding some light to the mystery of the 5th gear.

Yeah RPM's play a big role

Hourspower = Torque X RPM / 5252

Horsepower is NOT the power of a car, the torque is. Horsepower is a representation of the torque put to use with engine speed.

However, passing a GTO in a Stratos, is more about the power to weight ration, and higher cornering ability of a MR car.

 

[Lancia stratos]

If thats the case, I'm gonna race the stratos against the gto's in test course

 

[GTCr@zyPSP]

The Stratos
Power: 186hp
Weight: 980kg

Power to weight ratio: 0.086

Pontiac GTO
Power: 352hp
Weight: 1690kg

Power to weight ratio: 0.094

The Goat does have a slightly better power to weight ratio, but the Stratos will carve the corners faster, and will have much shorter braking distances, the Goat doesn't have the strength to gain it back in the straights.

 

[Lancia stratos]

Okay the GTO wouldn't stop slipstreaming that old chevelle. I usually get set up with the superbird, jensen intercepter, then the gto.

 

[GTCr@zyPSP]

Okay the GTO wouldn't stop slipstreaming that old chevelle. I usually get set up with the superbird, jensen intercepter, then the gto.

The test Track will pretty much be the only place the Goat will have an edge against the Stratos, with a slightly better power to weight ratio, and the Test track being a Straight with banked turns, there is no braking, or cornering for the Stratos to use its advantages.

However

I didn't take into account the Stratos is a 73 and well not as composed as the Goat. Ive ran a few laps with the 2 and the Goat is quite nimble around corners. it handles itself quite nicely and handed the Stratos its ass around the Track.

So Ive putting my money on the Goliath, in this David Vs Goliath

 

[Lancia stratos]

I test drove the mustang again and i did get 157 mph. I guess the game made me ride N1's without me knowing. Thats as good as a old subaru impreza. Now I'm gonna test drive it with R3's

EDIT: same result.

 

[Sniffs]

I just tested both the 05 Mustang GT and 04 GTO 5.7 in the GT4 version. my max on the stang agrees with what you got. it drug out at 157, the Goat at 158 (the Monaro should be identical). oh, I had default S2's on

 

[GTCr@zyPSP]

This makes me want to adjust the gear ratios in that car in GT4.

The thing is, I raced a lancia stratos (regular 186 HP, not rally.) and it passed the GTO no problem. I wonder if RPM also plays a role to it. This thread is shedding some light to the mystery of the 5th gear.

I can change gear ratios in GT PSP if you want to see anything, just let me know.

I already changed the 5th Gear of the Stang from .68:1 to .78:1 as expected she still maxed at 157mph, but she got there much quicker without the RPM's falling out of the power band @ shift.

 

[Shadow Wulf 2k]

The mustang has 6 gears but is stuck on 5th.

The 2005 Mustang GT has a 5-speed.

 

[GTCr@zyPSP]

The 2005 Mustang GT has a 5-speed.

Yeah he was a tad unsure of the details, but we got that all cleared up, when a thread is a few pages long its good to look through so you dont post redundant stuff like this. We not only got into details of the Stangs tranny but we discussed the real world ratios compared to the ratios used in gt psp (the same lol) So your a bit late

Check page 1 https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3808564&postcount=18

 

[GNX]

@ GTCr@zyPSP

LOL! Sorry, but I did not mean to imply that it is not "popular". It is VERY popular with this GNX Fan Boy. ;-). See my sig... What I evidently failed to articulate is that out of all the cars in the game, it is not popular enough amongst the players. Now I know that this is just anecdotal on my behalf, but searching through the forums as well as on the inter-tubes, that is the impression I have gotten. Right or wrong, it is the impression I have. It is my personal favorite as well... Again see my sig, my PSN Name, & forum name. ;-)

Yeah, I was not clear here as well, I was referring to GT4. I "try" and keep the car stock though have a good stable of stock to high powered GNX's for various uses. I most enjoy driving either stock HP or floating closer to the 300hp range but in all cases with the performance mods that do not impact HP beyond what I stated. ;-) I keep a few topped out beasts laying around because my best bud enjoys make runs closer to 200mph down the Sarth & Ring. ;-) So it's usually me & my GNX versus the world. ;-) Win or lose, I enjoy the race.

Thanks for the link, I will most certainly check it out. I've used GTVaults setup as a base for one of my GNX's. Of course I had to tweak it to my driving style a bit.


I agree% with your statement regarding "sense of speed". My bud did a numerical comparison in both career & arcade mode in terms of the 1/4 mile. I'm sure there was lots of room for error in his method, but after several repeated runs and averaging the numbers I think his method was acceptable. As you mentioned, I'm sure the differences in physics between the two modes had an impact as well. I personally haven't done any testing my self because the very limited time I do have to play, I'd rather play than play with numbers. :-) I play w/numbers all day... LOL!

Given your #'s, I guess I stand..err..sit corrected. ;-) Mybe my GNX fanboyism got the better of me. ;-)

Thanks for the posts, really interesting...

 

[PAPPACLART]

If you look at the power/torque curves of a lot of the big low reving american engines they tend to produce there power almost like a Turbo diesel. Often there will be a hell of a lot of power and torque produced up to its peak but then this power and torque will tail off very abruptly. Now if you are chasing top speeds and trying to accelerate in top gear passed this point where power and torque tails off then there is very little power and torque available to accelerate the vehicle to a greater velocity. Best bet is to run longer gears and to short shift so that from the speed you want to accelerate from, once you change up a gear you have to make sure the next gear up is long enough so that it slots nicely into to the meat of the power and torque so that you can continue to accelerate etc.


Allot of low reving American V8's are all about mid range, if you sing them to the redline they can become weezy, better change up way before the readline and use the meat!! A good example woul be the AC Cobra in GT4 - only has 4 gears and is a beast in the mid range but has no top end.

A good spread of power and torque is far more useful then just a huge peak.

2 cars may have a peak of 500bhp @ 5500rpm and both redline at 7200rpm.

1st car may have 500bhp @ 5500rpm but 350bhp at 7000rpm
2nd car may have 500bhp @ 5500rpm but 450bhp @ 7000rpm

Providing both cars have the same gearing weight and aero's then car 2 will have a greater top speed and will also accelerate faster in any gear from 5500rpm to 7000rpm.

 

[GTCr@zyPSP]

If you look at the power/torque curves of a lot of the big low reving american engines they tend to produce there power almost like a Turbo diesel. Often there will be a hell of a lot of power and torque produced up to its peak but then this power and torque will tail off very abruptly. Now if you are chasing top speeds and trying to accelerate in top gear passed this point where power and torque tails off then there is very little power and torque available to accelerate the vehicle to a greater velocity. Best bet is to run longer gears and to short shift so that from the speed you want to accelerate from, once you change up a gear you have to make sure the next gear up is long enough so that it slots nicely into to the meat of the power and torque so that you can continue to accelerate etc.

The HP is not just representative of the torque but also the engine speed, when the torque falls the HP still rises because of the engine speed (rpm) HP IS torque x RPM / 5252, so the more RPM the more HP as well as the more torque at a given RPM the more HP. SO as you will notice looking at power grafs is that even after the torque begines to fall, the hp still rises well after becase of the incresing engine speed.

2 cars may have a peak of 500bhp @ 5500rpm and both redline at 7200rpm.

1st car may have 500bhp @ 5500rpm but 350bhp at 7000rpm
2nd car may have 500bhp @ 5500rpm but 450bhp @ 7000rpm

Providing both cars have the same gearing weight and aero's then car 2 will have a greater top speed and will also accelerate faster in any gear from 5500rpm to 7000rpm.

Unfortunatly your statement is verry wrong

Car 1 and car 2 will make EXACTLY the same amount of hp. Becase they make the same amount of torque at the same engine speed, increase the engine speed and still the same amount of torque is being increased at the same rate.

500hp at 5500rpm means that the car has aproximatly 477 ft-lb at 7000 rpm. BOTH cars will make the same power and that would be 635hp. WHY? because they are using the same amount of torque at the same engine speed.

Large displacement turbo deisel trucks dont get the engine up to the same speed. The larger the piston, the stronger the stress on the rotating assembly (larger heavier pistongs generate more stress, because of the greater mass) the engine speed is not as high as lower displacement engines (9000rpm in some honda 4 bangers) So the Big Deisels will usually rev to low peek rpm's, reaching peek torque and not streatching it too far. That's why they make HUGE torque but low Hp. They get that torque from high displacement and with the turbo pumping serious boost (deisel uses compression to ignight the fuel instead of spark plugs) hp is simply a representation of the cars power (torque) put to use with engine speed. Truck are work horses, and need large torque to move heavy loads, but they are not for driving fast etc, and dont need high HP.

For example

Model Year Engine Horsepower HP RPM Torque RPM
2011 6.7L Power Stroke V8 Turbo Diesel 390hp 2,800 735lb-ft 1,600
2010 6.4L Power Stroke V8 Turbo Diesel 350hp 3,000 650lb-ft 2,000
2009 6.4L Power Stroke V8 Turbo Diesel 350hp 3,000 650lb-ft 2,000
2008 6.4L Power Stroke V8 Turbo Diesel 350hp 3,000 650lb-ft 2,000
2007 6.0L Power Stroke V8 Turbo Diesel 325hp 3,300 570lb-ft 2,000
2006 6.0L Power Stroke V8 Turbo Diesel 325hp 3,300 570lb-ft 2,000
2005 6.0L Power Stroke V8 Turbo Diesel 325hp 3,300 570lb-ft 2,000


V8's in Cars also dont rev as high as some 4 bangers (remember 9000rpm 4 bangers)

For example, the Mustang GT's V8 doesnt even get close to 7000rpm, it only hits 5750rpm, thats more like a V8. Its larger displacement makes 319 ft-lb of torque peeking at 4500 rpm, however the hp still climes until the peak of 5750 rpm (because of the increasing engie speed) IF the Stang could keep the engine speed rising to 7000 rpm it would make 425hp instead of 295hp...