PD - fix onboard shadows! It's too dark!

  • Thread starter YZF
  • 73 comments
  • 14,548 views

YZF

820
Lithuania
Lithuania
YZF_LT
Seriously, most of the time, driving with onboard camera, you see NOTHING on dashboard. It's way too dark. Even in the middle of the day, dashboard is black. Only on some parts of the track you get a chance to see how fast are you driving and then back to darkness.

Add option to disable onboard shadows, completely. This will be the most easy and cost effective solution. Some cars are ok, but majority are wrong. Too dark.

When I am driving in real life, no matter the day time, I always see dashboard clearly. Make the same in this 'real driving simulator'

Update: current version 1.04 - still not fixed

Update: current version 1.05 - still not fixed

Update: current version 1.06 - still not fixed


Update: current version 1.07 - still not fixed

Update: current version 1.08 - still not fixed

Current version 1.09 - still not fixed

Example video:



 
Last edited:
It's a matter of camera exposure. The light shown through the car window is much brighter than the dashboard, so the exposure has to be toned down and the dash is darkened in the process.
 
It's a matter of programming: just change onboard graphics so that the dashboard would be visible all the time (the whole lap). Is it possible to do that? Yes of course, look at all the other racing games.

Basically remove (or at least lighten considerably) cockpit shadows and problem solved.
 
Last edited:
It is in fact the dashboard lights that YZF is referring to. I've just seen a cockpit comparison between GT5 and GT6 and noted that the lighted parts of the dash were not lighting-independent in GT6.

 
Or just let us turn On the dashboard lights...

I am not sure if dashboard lights would help. I think the problem is that shadows are too dark. They are too 'strong'. If they would make them 10x lighter, this could fix it. In reality you get shadows from time to time, but definitely not so black.

Adding option in the menu to disable them, would be great. Ofcourse it's not perfect, but if i need to choose between visible dashboard instruments and moving shadows, I would pick up former 10 times out of 10. The whole shadow idea is nice, but when it is ruining more imortant visual elements, like speedometer or tachometer, then it's wrong.
 
I know what you mean, but in therm of "reality" dashboard lights are the more accurate thing to do and it might help at least a little.

Maybe they could add both options, and let us choose...
But I don´t think they'll put any =(
 
Are you referring to cars who simply don't have developed interiors? Even the Honda Civic Type R '94 has nothing but blackness inside.

I suspect those are all of the "standard" not premium cars that they just put in the game as cockpit camera ready. I was really bummed out to see the Benz GT Vision car was like that too.
 
Last edited:
We are talking about "Premiums", "standards" don't have any interior at all...


BMW M4 it's also "interiorless"
 
I have managed to get two videos of the same car, on the same track (same part of the track), real life and gran turismo. Now the video for GT is from GT5, but the problem is the same in GT6 (maybe someone having F40 in GT6 could record the similar video too):

Take a look at F40 dashboard in real life (bottom right corner), notice how speedometer lighting stays the same during whole lap.

Then take a look at F40 speedo in Gran Turismo, and notice how shadows make dashboard completely invisible from time to time (especially at the back straight).

Real life:



GT:

 
Last edited:
YZF
I have managed to get two videos of the same car, on the same track (same part of the track), real life and gran turismo. Now the video for GT is from GT5, but the problem is the same in GT6 (maybe someone having F40 in GT6 could record the similar video too):

Take a look at F40 dashboard in real life (bottom right corner), notice how speedometer lighting stays the same during whole lap.

Then take a look at F40 speedo in Gran Turismo, and notice how shadows make dashboard completely invisible from time to time (especially at the back straight)."


It's really hard to tell because your video camera is constantly auto-adjusting its own exposure. But I would agree. I had to crank up my TV's brightness substantially after increasing the game's gamma to be able to see well. Now there are sun flares that white out whole sections of tracks. :(
 
Maybe video quality isn't the best, but I get the same darkness when i drive in game. I think if you try the same car and the same track in the game, you'll have very similar experience. It's especially annoying when you need to know your rpms for gear shifting and ofcourse the speed as well.
 
Today I drove BMW 1series on Nurburgring and noticed dashboard shadow bug, which at the same time shows clearly what we have and what we need to have.

Basically if you look at the tachometer, this is what we have now, with other cars on other tracks. And if you look at the speedometer, this is what we need to have - consistent lighting through whole lap:

 
Could part of the problem be that weird lighting thing that PD has going on in the game? It's like the game is trying to simulate your eyes adjusting to the darkness. Like when I switch to the interior view it's like my driver is wearing sunglasses or something, everything seems much too dark and when I switch to the bumper cam things are brighter. It's REALLY odd and I don't understand why PD did this. We def need more consistent lighting & I wish there was a way to brighten the interior view. I tried the EV setting or whatever it is called in the options but that just washes everything out. It's really strange.
 
I understand the game is try to be realistic, but I agree an option to disable these shadows on the dashboard could really help. This really bothered me when driving cockpit view with the 91 Acura NSX, I can barely see the speedometer and tachometer when there is shadow overlaying the dash.

Also due to the shadow issues, I rely on the HUD and look mostly to the HUD tachometer on the right side of the screen, and I don't know if anyone else feels similar but I feel separating the speed to the left side of the screen is not very helpful for a quick glance for information. There's already a lot going on when driving at high speeds that you want to glance down and be able to have information read quickly. I think an option to arrange both the speed and tachometer together on the same side would make driving in the cockpit view a bit more informative for quick glance when the shadows overlay the dash, if the option to clean up the shadows isn't easily implemented as least give an option to clean up the HUD and arrange speed and tachometer together.
 
Why the heck would they do this ? It was way too dark to start with.

GT5 and 6 doesn't simulates light scattering, even high end PCs cheat to simulate global illumination in outside scenes in real time and their approximation is still extremely poor. There is no real time graphical engine that can simulate a "fully lit" car interior properly, unless they program all the windows as light sources themselves and each vector; above, below, side, back and front, to give an amount of light representative of the outside luminosity. That would be an elegant solution for cockpit views in racing games, but what do I know?
 
That's exactly it, clearly the interior lighting needs a bespoke ambient term that better approximates the way light is reflected within it.

As for the dark nights, I think that's because the sky is too bright - I thought the stars were too prominent in the trailers we saw, now it seems it's upsetting the HDR / exposure "metering".
 
GT5 and 6 doesn't simulates light scattering, even high end PCs cheat to simulate global illumination in outside scenes in real time and their approximation is still extremely poor. There is no real time graphical engine that can simulate a "fully lit" car interior properly, unless they program all the windows as light sources themselves and each vector; above, below, side, back and front, to give an amount of light representative of the outside luminosity. That would be an elegant solution for cockpit views in racing games, but what do I know?
That's exactly it, clearly the interior lighting needs a bespoke ambient term that better approximates the way light is reflected within it.

As for the dark nights, I think that's because the sky is too bright - I thought the stars were too prominent in the trailers we saw, now it seems it's upsetting the HDR / exposure "metering".
So the apology for this is that it's practically impossible to realistically replicate brighter cockpits in games nowadays, and simulate how the light shines through the windows, and that explains why the interiors are so dark? :odd:

I think the OP isn't talking about having "the most realistic lighting possible", but is complaining about the brightness level in general as he cannot read the damn dials...
 
So the apology for this is that it's practically impossible to realistically replicate brighter cockpits in games nowadays, and simulate how the light shines through the windows, and that explains why the interiors are so dark? :odd:

I think the OP isn't talking about having "the most realistic lighting possible", but is complaining about the brightness level in general as he cannot read the damn dials...

Honestly give it a rest. You are obviously incapable of rational thought, since everything that isn't damning the game must be an "apology", in your eyes. If you can't handle a point of view that doesn't reinforce your own bias, it's time to get off the internet.
 
Honestly give it a rest. You are obviously incapable of rational thought, since everything that isn't damning the game must be an "apology", in your eyes. If you can't handle a point of view that doesn't reinforce your own bias, it's time to get off the internet.
You should give it a rest trying to come up with overly technical explanations the whole time that miss the entire point. These issues are far more simple than that, but you start talking technical in order to give "reasons" for every obvious flaw with the game.

Might sound very impressive and scientific to most, but you don't fool me for a sec.
 
You should give it a rest trying to come up with overly technical explanations the whole time that miss the entire point. These issues are far more simple than that, but you start talking technical in order to give "reasons" for every obvious flaw with the game.

Might sound very impressive and scientific to most, but you don't fool me for a sec.

I'm sorry that you don't understand what I wrote, but my post you quoted was a direct criticism. Of course, because I didn't once mention that PD were lazy, you thought I was apologising on their behalf.
 
YZF
Today I drove BMW 1series on Nurburgring and noticed dashboard shadow bug, which at the same time shows clearly what we have and what we need to have.

Basically if you look at the tachometer, this is what we have now, with other cars on other tracks. And if you look at the speedometer, this is what we need to have - consistent lighting through whole lap:



That's because the speedo has its lights on. That's what PD should give us, we should be able to turn on/off our position lights.
 
I'm sorry that you don't understand what I wrote, but my post you quoted was a direct criticism. Of course, because I didn't once mention that PD were lazy, you thought I was apologising on their behalf.
Oh you hid that criticism so well in your sentences back there i didn't even notice! :dopey:

So "clearly the interior lighting needs a bespoke ambient term that better approximates the way light is reflected within it" in reply to "GT5 and 6 doesn't simulates light scattering, even high end PCs cheat to simulate global illumination in outside scenes in real time and their approximation is still extremely poor. There is no real time graphical engine that can simulate a "fully lit" car interior properly, unless they program all the windows as light sources themselves and each vector; above, below, side, back and front, to give an amount of light representative of the outside luminosity." ; means: "Yes it's too damn dark!" in man language?

Maybe i'm just too dumb here so better keep it simple and straightforward next time, that way people will know what you are on about... :rolleyes:
 
Oh you hid that criticism so well in your sentences back there i didn't even notice! :dopey:

So "clearly the interior lighting needs a bespoke ambient term that better approximates the way light is reflected within it" in reply to "GT5 and 6 doesn't simulates light scattering, even high end PCs cheat to simulate global illumination in outside scenes in real time and their approximation is still extremely poor. There is no real time graphical engine that can simulate a "fully lit" car interior properly, unless they program all the windows as light sources themselves and each vector; above, below, side, back and front, to give an amount of light representative of the outside luminosity." ; means: "Yes it's too damn dark!" in man language?

Maybe i'm just too dumb here so better keep it simple and straightforward next time, that way people will know what you are on about... :rolleyes:

No, I'll never "dumb down" my posts - this is actually a very complex, technical issue, and to dumb it down is to miss the point. Feel stupid? I never intend it; it's your issue, you deal with it. If you don't understand, just ask for clarification - I won't ever begrudge anyone that; I love learning, and I love sharing information.


Lighting in games generally has two types of sources: direct, and indirect. "Global Illumination" is effectively the study of indirect lighting - advances in visual fidelity in the last 5 or so years, e.g. in Crysis 2 etc., have been due to near-real-time indirect lighting solutions, which are indeed only coarse approximations.

The "ambient" term is always there, as a "constant" and is the most basic approximation of the indirect light in a scene. It's what is left in the scene when there is no direct light, so in direct shadow, and is usually non-zero to avoid the annoying contrast you get from direct-only lighting.


What was being said is that the game models lights as direct sources only (no GI, no indirect light, no extra reflections), so the way that the light falls into the cockpit and illuminates it is unrealistic, and you get too much contrast.

What I was saying is that the cockpit needs a "bespoke ambient term", as distinct from the rest of the scenery, that removes that excessive contrast. There are numerous ways to do it, e.g. by simulating (e.g. by a radiosity calculation - good link, very visual) the interior light bounces offline (in pre-production) and baking it in somehow - similar to the way games often use pre-baked ambient occlusion for dynamic lighting today. They could stick with a constant ambient term and just turn it up a bit, but that might look goofy in some situations, and as compared with the illumination of the scenery itself. It's a balancing act.


If you want to get involved in these discussions, there is an element of learning involved. Having an opinion is fine, but if you don't truly understand what's going on, you can only go so far with it, in terms of the conclusions you draw. This applies to virtually everything in real life - I'd hate to think about your "method" of choosing who to vote for in government. :P
 
@mister dog and @Griffith500

The pair of you need to cool things down and stop with the personal digs; if you can't do it then the staff will give both of you a cooling off period away from GT Planet.

This is not open for discussion, debate or opinion; cool it now or face the consequences.
 

Latest Posts

Back