PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

Did they just make a change lately? I did a daily race and watched guys getting penalties out of thin air...no cars around them, no leaving the course, just literally from hitting something that wasn't there.. At the end I think I saw maybe 3 or 4 guys who didn't have a penalty on finish board.
@Luc Janssen mentioned this in a post. He swears he didn't even touch anyone and got a penalty. I got a two second penalty for knocking someone off the track when all I did was nudge someone a little bit nowhere near the edge of the track. I think there are lag issues afoot.
 
Did they just make a change lately? I did a daily race and watched guys getting penalties out of thin air...no cars around them, no leaving the course, just literally from hitting something that wasn't there.. At the end I think I saw maybe 3 or 4 guys who didn't have a penalty on finish board.

Lag has been a thing lately. A really big thing. I first started noticing it when the combined NA & SA for the Manu races but it's more than just the FIA races and it's getting worse.
 
After some racing I now wish they would just turn the whole system off completely.

They are incompetent.

It sucks.
At this point I think PD don't even know what their "penalty system" does. They're not even checking :dunce:
 
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Today I got the classic "someone coming out of ghosting inside of me", which was obviously earned me a two second penalty. I mean I would't have tried to go through the other guy, but I didn't actually see him until he appeared though the car in front!


Ah yes, classic. Happens way too often.
Another proof that PD have no idea what they're doing with the system.

Anybody knows how penalties look during official GT competitions? I'm asking because I never cared about those races, but now I'm curious. Did the penalties ever embarrass PD, especially lately?
 
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This is it! After three years of BS, I think we are close to something good!

Last couple of days racing SPA and it went pretty well penalty wise. No dirty move, people keep their line on kemmel when I got to overtake. Maybe the fact that I start in the top 8 has something to do but I didn't get any stupid pens while racing close to each other. I saw some big fights with one car going off track and the other getting 2 sec. Seems fair from what I saw. It was still avoidable pens if the 2 guys were not so cocky but that's not my problem.

Now we need to have The Nord so @Sven Jurgens can analyse the 🤬 out of the new system!
 
Today I got the classic "someone coming out of ghosting inside of me", which was obviously earned me a two second penalty. I mean I would't have tried to go through the other guy, but I didn't actually see him until he appeared though the car in front!



This brings into play that whole etiquette of making sure you go off the racing line as much as possible when you take a penalty. Not many do in D/C races I have been involved in.
 
Ah yes, classic. Happens way too often.
Another proof that PD have no idea what they're doing with the system.

Anybody knows how penalties look during official GT competitions? I'm asking because I never cared about those races, but now I'm curious. Did the penalties ever embarrass PD, especially lately?

They turn the penalty system off and use live stewards.

This brings into play that whole etiquette of making sure you go off the racing line as much as possible when you take a penalty. Not many do in D/C races I have been involved in.

Most of the racers in C/D lobbies don't even know that they should pull off the racing line to serve a penalty.

This goes back to a long-standing gripe I have - there should be some sort of licensing system that people have to pass before they're allowed to race online. Something that actually goes over proper etiquette like that, as well as what is proper defending and overtaking.
 
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This is it! After three years of BS, I think we are close to something good!

Last couple of days racing SPA and it went pretty well penalty wise. No dirty move, people keep their line on kemmel when I got to overtake. Maybe the fact that I start in the top 8 has something to do but I didn't get any stupid pens while racing close to each other. I saw some big fights with one car going off track and the other getting 2 sec. Seems fair from what I saw. It was still avoidable pens if the 2 guys were not so cocky but that's not my problem.

Now we need to have The Nord so @Sven Jurgens can analyse the 🤬 out of the new system!

I'm sure it will be delightful (to be back in D/E). Next week has the worst race C I can think off, the wait continues. It has been a long time since the Nord was on. I guess PD is waiting until the rain version of the Nord is ready, that must be it :sly:


This goes back to a long-standing gripe I have - there should be some sort of licensing system that people have to pass before they're allowed to race online. Something that actually goes over proper etiquette like that, as well as what is proper defending and overtaking.

Nah, just don't make yourself look bad, or rather always blame the other guy.

At least PD could put the 'etiquette' videos on a loop while waiting for the race to load / matching to begin. It would be nice if the game saves a replay of all the situations where you got a penalty and replays them for you while waiting / loading. A what not to do (again) reel. Of course it would mainly be showing you getting rammed off and receiving a penalty for it :lol:
 
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This goes back to a long-standing gripe I have - there should be some sort of licensing system that people have to pass before they're allowed to race online. Something that actually goes over proper etiquette like that, as well as what is proper defending and overtaking.
You can lead a horse to water...
Sure they can watch a video like that and tick the box. Doesn't mean they will put it into practice. I mean how many terms and conditions have you read in full?

Wow. That explains everything.
Even then it's not perfect. Last time Oceania players were penalised for cutting the Fuji pit entrance when they didn't. Lag made it appear as if they did. Not much they could have done about it.

Looking forward to my first Nations race in an age tomorrow though, Gr.1 at Spa with a grid start... what could possibly go wrong??
It could go wrong by being a rolling start. ;)
 
You can lead a horse to water...
Sure they can watch a video like that and tick the box. Doesn't mean they will put it into practice. I mean how many terms and conditions have you read in full?

It's not about watching a video and ticking a box - that's what we have now. Older GT titles had actual incensing exams. Think of GT Sports offline driving school and mission challenges. A series of challenges each centered around a skill or etiquette required for multiplayer racing. Will some racers still be dirty? Of course. But particularly in lower level lobbies, ignorance is a bigger problem than intentionally dirty driving.
 
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The classic GT licenses were a good basic system. Add the consequence of losing or getting a license suspended and it would cut down on a lot of trouble.

R46be13dccf612d3f056de87b826c18ed
 
Oh I know, but anything you do before you can go online can easily be ignored by idiots with the wrong attitude.
FWIW I agree that something more needs to be done.

Like everyone else, I don't like penalties, but the 'judge or referee' has made them. I have to respect that when I am competing, I also have to respect my other competitors. My rule to myself on penalties is simple, move off the racing line. I will do this always.
 
Generally it’s good to serve off line unfortunately some like Interlagos are in such bad spots that moving off is to the inside of a difficult turn., it’s a block.

Far as my take objectively on the current penalties in race A it’s not triggering when you get rammed off track.
Imo it’s not sensitive enough.
 
I had a few fun and successful Race B races and have been going up and down with the SR. I have got to say, so far, this penalty system is much better than the last two (which is all I've experienced). It makes a lot of mistakes but drivers are thinking twice before making a dirty move. I almost wish the SR penalties weren't so harsh but I probably just have to adjust my driving a little more.
 
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I’d say I’ve done maybe 25-30 races under this revision.
I would personally prefer it to be more sensitive, but at least it’s not needlessly giving one second penalties for being next to others.
That’s a positive. Little inconsequential bumping is allowed. Again positive.
Blame assignment does work well under equal dr.
Unequal dr not so much.
I think it’s a good system, for what it is.
It’s better than the last.
I watched two views of top split Spa, and tbh it wasn’t impressive at all.
Imo it needs to be more sensitive but that is my opinion.
A lot of folks seem to like a good scrum.
I mean TOP SPLIT. The BEST OF THE BEST
They can’t fill gaps two by two and manage braking for turn one at Spa.
You got guys on the grass up the inside pinballing through... SMH. I know these guys are awesome drivers but this system requires that nonsense...
I wish it was stricter.
It’s definitely hard racing. It’s racing under the rules.
I’m not blaming anyone except the system for how racers race.
The rules are the rules. But pinball turn one looks bad.
As far as today’s races I saw a guy on A in second last turn last lap get shoved into a wall.
The punter got a pen.

So it worked. It’s better than the last revision but that’s not saying much.
 
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I feel the problem with the penalty system is more like VAR in football/soccer, is not the system that's broken is the application.

The game just doesn't apply it properly, like, unpredictable driving from cars in front might lead to incidents that car behind might not be able to avoid. It is very harsh on early corner collision but terrible at late corner collision. You bumping into early brakers a little, definite penalty. You dive bombed crash into someone, there is a chance of no penalties.

For all the sensitiveness to bumping cars off track, there are no penalties for for forcing cars off track, often you want the inside line no matter what, even if car in front is occupying it, as there is a chance the guy might just deliberately force you off on the exit if you get a better run in and the modern penalty system don't deal with that. The battles on the straights are probably the worse policed, while early braking zone penalties are overly policed.

My main problem is not the penalties, is in the inconsistency in when it applies, and gamers being gamers, quickly work out what they can get away with. I can live with 1 second penalties for contact minor but meaningful, if the person dive bombing into cars is caught every time. I can live with half second penalty for cutting corners, if every corner is policed consistently.
 
and gamers being gamers, quickly work out what they can get away with

This is why I think both cars should get blamed in any recordable incident.
The blame is getting better though.
It’s not being gamed like I’ve seen before where some idiot realized how to give pens to others as they wished.
 
I find the recent adjustments to the penalty system to be a minor improvement ...but I still find all of SR to be grossly broken. I'll explain why.

A lot of comments seem to be focused on assigning penalties/blame (which is fair). I don't think that's the crux of the problem though. I think it's about matching expectations of driver conduct. In reality there is a consequence for bad driving that doesn't translate to the game and that will always be the case. On the other hand, a drivers reputation is something that does translate between real racing and online racing. PD mentions in their sportsmanship videos, "looking bad" is the concern with bad sportsmanship. It seems that a few clean laps around the track can redeem a dirty drivers actions. 0-2 races later they're back to S-SR and 'looking good'.

Take a look at the stats... Less than 2% of drivers have a S-DR while roughly 72% of drivers have a S-SR. The ease of receiving an S-SR makes the whole penalty system broken in the first place. Let's be honest, a third of those S-SR drivers have never won two consecutive Silver Stars for racing clean and should be rated with an A or B SR. You would assume an S rating would be really tough to achieve right? it's simply not the case.

upload_2021-5-2_11-24-19.png upload_2021-5-2_11-25-35.png

If the SR rating was a little more strict in terms of recovering your SR rating than I think it would help provide more disparity between the different SR classes. The disparity would keep like-minded players together. If a player races dirty and thats ok and normal to them then let them play with other like minded individuals. The point isn't to separate new/horrible players from the pack, the current system does that already. It should be about keeping cleaner racers with cleaner racers who care enough to be careful. The on-track penalty system would be less an issue (IMO) if players did not get matched with players who ignore or test the limits of the penalty system more aggressively than they do.

The issue seems less apparent in the higher tiers since those players learn to rely on their speed and race strategy more than using dirty tactics, unfortunately only ~10% of players are in that higher tier / better experience.

The only reward you get as a clean racer is a 50% increase in after race rewards. Which in the grand scheme is nothing. The reward system is really built on maximizing your placement in the race regardless of how you got there. It is encouraging cleaner racers to play dirtier in order to maintain/accelerate their DR level. It would be nice if PD would explore a different way to match dirty drivers with dirty drivers, clumsy with clumsy and clean with clean.
 
. I think it's about matching expectations of driver conduct

If that is the primary match criteria you would have D S matched with A plus S.
I’m not saying that doesn’t happen, but you have to consider players are looking to be matched with others near their ability.
Speed is the more important component of the two.

In reality there is a consequence for bad driving that doesn't translate to the game and that will always be the case. On the other hand, a drivers reputation is something that does translate between real racing and online racing. PD mentions in their sportsmanship videos, "looking bad" is the concern with bad sportsmanship. It seems that a few clean laps around the track can redeem a dirty drivers actions. 0-2 races later they're back to S-SR and 'looking good'.

Also it’s ridiculous for one bad race to do the same thing in the opposite direction.

. You would assume an S rating would be really tough to achieve right? it's simply not the case.

Again, problem is when you create a rank few achieve, and make it exclusive you end up with no one to race.

If the SR rating was a little more strict in terms of recovering your SR rating than I think it would help provide more disparity between the different SR classes. The disparity would keep like-minded players together. If a player races dirty and thats ok and normal to them then let them play with other like minded individuals. The point isn't to separate new/horrible players from the pack, the current system does that already. It should be about keeping cleaner racers with cleaner racers who care enough to be careful

Yes it should but remember it IS racing.
It’s about getting driver points.
Your SR only has to equal your dr.
I agree, I want clean competitive racing, but for online aid rather be matched against people my speed than clean people way slower or way faster.
There’s a limited number of players in the pool.

The issue seems less apparent in the higher tiers since those players learn to rely on their speed and race strategy more than using dirty tactics, unfortunately only ~10% of players are in that higher tier / better experience.

Faster players are the more clean 90 percent of time. This is because they are more in control.
The truth is a person starting in GTS must invest in it and become skilled to a certain point to get the best from it.


The reward system is really built on maximizing your placement in the race regardless of how you got there

Pretty much. You only have to have SR equal your DR.
That makes it so.
The average player doesn’t have the investment into the game and really has ZERO need to be clean at all.
Isn’t B about average? You only need to be B SR in that case.
The game tier sets a player up to go into race A B C then FIA as the player advances.

The root of what creates all these levels is the point of operation.
The penalty system.
I mean I get that the idea above values clean highly and I do too but it’s RACING, not vacuuming.

You’re never gonna really get clean racing until you get up to a certain skill level and that skill level is above the average GTS player.
That’s why I say the game should do more to teach/license, whatever...
Lesser skilled players are always gonna make more mistakes, lose the temper, intentionally contact others etc etc etc.
The only thing teaching them is the penalty system.
 
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The root of the penalty system is that it punishes racing incidents, not trolling and retaliation. Like above, consistency is something to be left to be desired, but currently, clean racers and the penalty system works fine. It punishes mistakes that affected other people but aren't harsh on people who are out to ruin other people.

The important question is how you separate the player base to the point that is most "fair" for both SR and DR. I think there is too much of an ease to get to the upper tier for SR. You know when you have a bad temper race and you dropped your SR to A or lower; often the races at are A; you or someone are way faster, B; there are way slower people, and/or C; the lobby struggles to be filled. Even in 90/99 SR you could get mismatched races, and only at 99 SR you tend to be where you should be. The majority of players can reach 99/99, and one could argue we could split the player base slightly and still adequately fill the lobbies in a competitive manner. The SR system is too reactive. One bad race where you misjudged 2 braking zone could knock you back to A rating. Whereas you only need 5 or 6 races to recover from a B SR to S SR.

They need to make that your SR is really judged by the last 20 races or something. You can get your elbows out/be a bit braver without suffering too much when it goes wrong, but rewards your SR even at 99 SR as every recent race counts.


As for the dirty drivers, you could teach, but are they willing to learn? There is a difference between lower skill players, trolls, and players that have zero respect for others, and the latter two aren't necessarily fits into the 1st option. You get dick heads in A lobby too from what i can see from Youtube/Twitch. I think to say teaching players is the key thing to get them to race cleanly is a little too idealistic.
 
I think to say teaching players is the key thing to get them to race cleanly is a little too idealistic.
The majority of players have learned. Some, like less than 10%, have no intention of learning. But I think that's a different issue.

It's beyond teaching. To be DR A/A+ takes a lot of time and effort. I find it hard to believe they don't know better. They are knowingly and skillfully exploiting the game and other players then justifying it as the games' fault for letting them.

I have said before, it exists in all games/sports. Nothing is perfect. Don't let the worst of human nature ruin your game/sport. Try to focus on the positives.
 
If that is the primary match criteria you would have D S matched with A plus S.
I’m not saying that doesn’t happen, but you have to consider players are looking to be matched with others near their ability.
Speed is the more important component of the two.

I have been thinking that qualification times are a better match for a while. It is quite disappointing to see fellow racers in dailies and FIA events that have at least 2-3 seconds better qualification times. We are all together because we matched DR and/or SR ratings (mainly SR matched). I pretty much given up on daily races because racing against A & B racers is mostly pointless if I want to gain any DR.

Also it’s ridiculous for one bad race to do the same thing in the opposite direction.

Agree, possibly PD could average out a few races to come up with a racer's "reputation" rating. Or maybe use the average penalties acquired over a number of races? Who knows, not me. I just would like to be better matched during these races.
 
I agree, I want clean competitive racing, but for online aid rather be matched against people my speed than clean people way slower or way faster.
There’s a limited number of players in the pool.

GT Sports online matching system seems to include a bunch of logic to handle small rooms and should be optimized to pair users regardless of their DR and SR. At least from what I’ve observed. I assume different DR and SR will mix together depending on who is online at any given moment just as they do today.

By providing more disparity between different SR rating between players it wouldn’t hinder matchmaking but instead make it smarter. At this point - everyone being rated S-SR doesn't help the system to group drivers better.

But let’s say your right … A higher level player is matched with a few lower level players. When racing 10 or more individuals - does a few slower racers remove your sense of competition? I don’t think so. If anything, lower level players will get to see what a good example of driving a track is and learn from the driver in front of them instead of having micro battles at every corner. You may actually accelerate more players to the higher tiers instead of thinning out the heard through bad experiences.

I also think it may help other players to know who has a dirty reputation considering I match up with random people all the time, I could adjust my strategy knowing a player may try something dirty instead of being unaware the match before - he wrecked a few cars early and was able to redeem his S-SR by driving the rest of the race clean with no competition.

You’re never gonna really get clean racing until you get up to a certain skill level and that skill level is above the average GTS player.
That’s why I say the game should do more to teach/license, whatever...

Regardless of how much you want all drivers to be clean - it will never happen, I agree. The game attracts casual and serious racers. Arcade and Simulation players. Maybe some people find GT Sport to be too easy since others drivers aren’t as aggressive as they are. Maybe they want a different kind of challenge - A NASCAR type of experience. Whatever the purpose for the behavior, it’s ok and shouldn’t be disregarded - it just needs to be separated better. To be honest, I’m not against the extra license idea. I don’t think that will be an easy fix for GT Sport at this point considering GT7 is in development.

Pretty much. You only have to have SR equal your DR.
That makes it so.
The average player doesn’t have the investment into the game and really has ZERO need to be clean at all.
Isn’t B about average? You only need to be B SR in that case.
The game tier sets a player up to go into race A B C then FIA as the player advances.

It seems that when GT Sport launched, the SR Rating was the mechanism to ensure integrity. In reality, it’s turned into a pass/fail system for horrible drivers. The DR system seems to correct the issue for ~10% of drivers, but the SR system is failing the other ~70% of drivers.
 
If anything, lower level players will get to see what a good example of driving a track is and learn from the driver in front of them instead of having micro battles at every corner. You

In reality the slower drivers see the fast drivers for a very short time, usually past T1 then they no longer see them.
The crux is that the game sorts by SR, so it starts with those A drivers at 99 and put them in the lobby, then fill up with B, C and D drivers with SR 99.
This works when everyone is 99 because then you get lobbies with all A or all B drivers, then sorted by DR and sorted after QT in lobby.
Suddenly you have a full lobby where the q time varies very little. Now, there's no guarantee that the drivers can match their Q time, for some it may be a jalleluja lap, for others it's one of 20 laps within a second or two tenths. So it's no guarantee for close racing, but it's a start.
Unfortunately it doesn't take dirty drivers into account, the penalty system treats all offenses equal. An average over 20 races would be much better
 
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