People confuse me....

[Drave]

This is not aimed at anyone particular either on this forum nor elsewhere.. but this genuinely confuses me

Read around these game forums, well the car ones for me as I basically only play driving games and you over time see a great deal of "grateful' posts... grateful to the developer's for making the game or the car or whatever.

I was even on one specific forum for a game and it basically didn't work for a great many people... and people were still being grateful! The dev's were actually on this forum asking people to tell them what wasn't working today!!

Now, for myself, when I buy a new car in real life which I do really quite often, then I expect it to arrive on time, in the right colour, with all the right options ... and then I expect that car to start, stop and run for at least two years with any servicing needed. Then I get rid of it and buy another new one

At no point do I find myself grateful to Big Ken or Sweaty Pete who built the car, Ted who delivered it or Michael who took my order.

Rather, if things are not 100% as they should be, it makes me very upset in a spitting blood sort of way because I have paid for this and it had better be right

Why? Because when I was giving them my money they did not say "Oh by the way we haven't developed this car properly so it will probably break down, not work as it should and we will show less then no interest if it does... what we're hoping is that when it breaks down or does something weird you can let us know"

But that is what happens way too often with games. There is a game out now which does not fulfil reasonable expectations one could have for the product... but a selection of people are so happy about the game it is akin to stalking

So my question is why are people 'grateful' to game developers when all they are doing is their job, which they get paid for and half the time the product is pretty poor anyway... if you think people should be grateful, then let me know because I have a car in a barn I can sell you.

 

[pretend racer]

Advertising comes in all forms today - paid YouTube reviewers, buying likes on Facebook, fanboy promotion on forums. So it's pretty hard to weed out legitimate feedback from all the other stuff that's on the web. Just take it all in and afterwards when you've experienced the product and made up your own mind, just know that whether the majority of 'people' on the web agree with your conclusions, or not, your opinion will always be right!

 

[Tornado]

That's an awfully roundabout way to say very little.

 

[Famine]

So my question is why are people 'grateful' to game developers when all they are doing is their job

Ever tipped a waitress?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Everyone is different and not everyone looks at the world the same way you do. Some people can ignore all the faults in a game and be happy with what enjoyment they can squeeze out of it. Others will see only the faults and spit fire. Most of us are somewhere in between. So we'll all respond differently to different issues and problems with games. In general, it's just being human.

 

[eran0004]

This is not aimed at anyone particular either on this forum nor elsewhere.. but this genuinely confuses me

Read around these game forums, well the car ones for me as I basically only play driving games and you over time see a great deal of "grateful' posts... grateful to the developer's for making the game or the car or whatever.

I was even on one specific forum for a game and it basically didn't work for a great many people... and people were still being grateful! The dev's were actually on this forum asking people to tell them what wasn't working today!!

Now, for myself, when I buy a new car in real life which I do really quite often, then I expect it to arrive on time, in the right colour, with all the right options ... and then I expect that car to start, stop and run for at least two years with any servicing needed. Then I get rid of it and buy another new one

At no point do I find myself grateful to Big Ken or Sweaty Pete who built the car, Ted who delivered it or Michael who took my order.

Rather, if things are not 100% as they should be, it makes me very upset in a spitting blood sort of way because I have paid for this and it had better be right

Why? Because when I was giving them my money they did not say "Oh by the way we haven't developed this car properly so it will probably break down, not work as it should and we will show less then no interest if it does... what we're hoping is that when it breaks down or does something weird you can let us know"

But that is what happens way too often with games. There is a game out now which does not fulfil reasonable expectations one could have for the product... but a selection of people are so happy about the game it is akin to stalking

Why? Because when I was giving them my money they did not say "Oh by the way we haven't developed this car properly so it will probably break down, not work as it should and we will show less then no interest if it does... what we're hoping is that when it breaks down or does something weird you can let us know"

So my question is why are people 'grateful' to game developers when all they are doing is their job, which they get paid for and half the time the product is pretty poor anyway... if you think people should be grateful, then let me know because I have a car in a barn I can sell you.

When you're passionate about something it's common to show your appreciation. There are a lot of people who are passionate about cars, they have a favourite brand, they're excited when new models are revealed, etc. etc. so I don't agree that it's something you only see with games.

You say that you don't find yourself grateful to Big Ken or Sweaty Pete who built the car, Ted who delivered it or Michael who took your order, but how often have you seen gamers expressing gratitude towards individual programmers who coded the game, to the company who delivered it or to the game store who took the pre-order? In that sense there is absolutely no difference between the game industry and the car industry.

And then we have this:

Rather, if things are not 100% as they should be, it makes me very upset in a spitting blood sort of way because I have paid for this and it had better be right

Why? Because when I was giving them my money they did not say "Oh by the way we haven't developed this car properly so it will probably break down, not work as it should and we will show less then no interest if it does... what we're hoping is that when it breaks down or does something weird you can let us know"

But that is what happens way too often with games. There is a game out now which does not fulfil reasonable expectations one could have for the product... but a selection of people are so happy about the game it is akin to stalking

Let's pause there for a while. You're saying that gamers doesn't get upset if a game isn't what they expected it to be? In what universe would that be?

As for how some people can like a game while others can hate the same game: Different people have different expectations and demands. For some it's intolerable if the framerate isn't steady, for some it's intolerable if the menu is difficult to use, for some it's intolerable if the DLC is too expensive, etc. And in the same manner there are some who don't care about how steady the framerate is, or how difficult the menu is to use, or how expensive the DLC is. You need to recognize that there are different opinions, and you need to learn to accept that.

So my question is why are people 'grateful' to game developers when all they are doing is their job, which they get paid for and half the time the product is pretty poor anyway... if you think people should be grateful, then let me know because I have a car in a barn I can sell you.

Why do people clap their hands at a concert, when all the artists are doing is their job? Why do people cheer for a sports team, when all the players are doing is their job? Why do people appreciate fine art, when all the painter is doing is their job?

The simple answer is: because they like it. And why do they like it? Well, in some cases they like it because they think it's good. In other cases they think it's good because they like it. Humans are not always rational beings, and what a boring world it would be if we were.

 

[Drave]

The simple answer is: because they like it. And why do they like it? Well, in some cases they like it because they think it's good. In other cases they think it's good because they like it. Humans are not always rational beings, and what a boring world it would be if we were.

LOL. nothing personal but I do not have much time for multi quoter's either ... it is a certain mentality I find

Myself I do not need to accept anything fortunately as I am well enough heeled to not bother with "....the wonderful world that is the plebs of today!" as Mrs Miggins would have it

That's the problem with the internet we all interact with people we would normally avoid with a 20 metre cattle prod... that's goes for you, me and everyone else of course.

Maybe it helps if I explain that I am a Nihilist to the Nth degree and a self imposed recluse; this is not an internet affectation, I really am.

Yes ..... people do things because they like them; we agree 100%

But I have seen so many people who have said 'Grateful!" in some fashion when there is no need to be or indeed nothing to be grateful for, it is bizarre. If I go to a concert and the performance is good I will show my appreciation, if it is garbage I will walk out. In life I ask no one to put up with me, in fact I insist on that, but by the same token I do not put up with people I have no time for. Which as you're an intelligent person you have realised is basically all of them, all c.7.3 Billion. That said I have a great deal more time for someone in a mud hut in the DRC than some fool in their trailer park home... one doesn't know and the other should know better

If one says on these forums... "This game is crap!" you will not only be attacked but most likely banned... why? If the game is clearly crap, it is clearly crap... plus if I think it is crap who the hell cares what anyone else thinks? I don't. Did they buy the game for me? No. Did they buy my console? No. So why are they telling me what to think?

But you know it is just me I am sure... I mean look around at how well the world works, all the nice compromising polite people must have it all so right ... I'll get me coat

 

[Johnnypenso]

LOL. nothing personal but I do not have much time for multi quoter's either ... it is a certain mentality I find

Myself I do not need to accept anything fortunately as I am well enough heeled to not bother with "....the wonderful world that is the plebs of today!" as Mrs Miggins would have it

That's the problem with the internet we all interact with people we would normally avoid with a 20 metre cattle prod... that's goes for you, me and everyone else of course.

Maybe it helps if I explain that I am a Nihilist to the Nth degree and a self imposed recluse; this is not an internet affectation, I really am.

Yes ..... people do things because they like them; we agree 100%

But I have seen so many people who have said 'Grateful!" in some fashion when there is no need to be or indeed nothing to be grateful for, it is bizarre. If I go to a concert and the performance is good I will show my appreciation, if it is garbage I will walk out. In life I ask no one to put up with me, in fact I insist on that, but by the same token I do not put up with people I have no time for. Which as you're an intelligent person you have realised is basically all of them, all c.7.3 Billion. That said I have a great deal more time for someone in a mud hut in the DRC than some fool in their trailer park home... one doesn't know and the other should know better

If one says on these forums... "This game is crap!" you will not only be attacked but most likely banned... why? If the game is clearly crap, it is clearly crap... plus if I think it is crap who the hell cares what anyone else thinks? I don't. Did they buy the game for me? No. Did they buy my console? No. So why are they telling me what to think?

But you know it is just me I am sure... I mean look around at how well the world works, all the nice compromising polite people must have it all so right ... I'll get me coat

Your mistake is your underlying assumption that other people can't look at the exact same thing as you and see it in a different light. I'm sure you know what a cult classic movie is right? Plan 9 from Outer Space anyone? To some people it's pure crap. To others it's so bad it's laughable and so laughable that it's enjoyable because it's so bad. When I first saw it I thought it was the worst movie I'd ever seen, but it was so bad it was hilarious in it's ineptitude and I encouraged all my friends to watch it. Few things in life are obviously black and white, most things are shades of gray depending on who's looking at it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

LOL. nothing personal but I do not have much time for multi quoter's either ... it is a certain mentality I find

Oh, you should brace yourself then.

Myself I do not need to accept anything fortunately as I am well enough heeled to not bother with "....the wonderful world that is the plebs of today!" as Mrs Miggins would have it

Interesting assessment of those around you. Remind me why you began a thread in an Opinions forum? Are you hoping to educate we poor plough-draggers and the odd rescued Frenchie?

That's the problem with the internet we all interact with people we would normally avoid with a 20 metre cattle prod... that's goes for you, me and everyone else of course.

So why interact in that problem environment?

Maybe it helps if I explain that I am a Nihilist to the Nth degree and a self imposed recluse; this is not an internet affectation, I really am.

No, it doesn't help. It does further suggest the pointlessness of asking why other people like things you allude to disliking. Perhaps you'd have been better discussing nihilism?

Yes ..... people do things because they like them; we agree 100%

Then you could have used that line without seeming to disagree with your OP.

If one says on these forums... "This game is crap!" you will not only be attacked but most likely banned...

Source required, personally I think that's bollocks. That's as welcome an opinion as any other opinion here.

But you know it is just me I am sure... I mean look around at how well the world works, all the nice compromising polite people must have it all so right ... I'll get me coat

What exactly are you trying to say? Were you banned somewhere else and you've come here for group therapy?

 

[eran0004]

LOL. nothing personal but I do not have much time for multi quoter's either ... it is a certain mentality I find

Myself I do not need to accept anything fortunately as I am well enough heeled to not bother with "....the wonderful world that is the plebs of today!" as Mrs Miggins would have it

That's the problem with the internet we all interact with people we would normally avoid with a 20 metre cattle prod... that's goes for you, me and everyone else of course.

Maybe it helps if I explain that I am a Nihilist to the Nth degree and a self imposed recluse; this is not an internet affectation, I really am.

Yes ..... people do things because they like them; we agree 100%

But I have seen so many people who have said 'Grateful!" in some fashion when there is no need to be or indeed nothing to be grateful for, it is bizarre. If I go to a concert and the performance is good I will show my appreciation, if it is garbage I will walk out. In life I ask no one to put up with me, in fact I insist on that, but by the same token I do not put up with people I have no time for. Which as you're an intelligent person you have realised is basically all of them, all c.7.3 Billion. That said I have a great deal more time for someone in a mud hut in the DRC than some fool in their trailer park home... one doesn't know and the other should know better

If one says on these forums... "This game is crap!" you will not only be attacked but most likely banned... why? If the game is clearly crap, it is clearly crap... plus if I think it is crap who the hell cares what anyone else thinks? I don't. Did they buy the game for me? No. Did they buy my console? No. So why are they telling me what to think?

But you know it is just me I am sure... I mean look around at how well the world works, all the nice compromising polite people must have it all so right ... I'll get me coat

What you're missing here is that everyone have different preferences. Just because you don't like a game doesn't mean that others can't or shouldn't like it.

You can't get banned for disliking a game. Your opinions might be challenged by others, but there is nothing wrong with that. If you think they're wrong, tell them why. If you don't want to discuss it, just ignore it. It's the same for everyone.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

plus if I think it is crap who the hell cares what anyone else thinks? I don't.

The fact you've dedicated a whole thread to questioning what other people think kinda suggests otherwise.

So why are they telling me what to think?

Like how you're telling people what to be grateful for?

If one says on these forums... "This game is crap!" you will not only be attacked but most likely banned... why?

No, but what you can get banned for is making false claims.

Look, a discussion on what you think is/isn't appropriate for people to appreciate is all fine and dandy, but don't lump in total rubbish like this along with it.

 

[FoRiZon]

Its a product/object, man. Not a people or society. You dont need to be overly attached into it if it somewhat confuse you. You're free to like it or not even if your preferences are not on majority.

People are free to both praise and critic. Its the human nature. You cant expect all people to have an opinion in line with you, kinda like you cant expect all people to be friendly and accepting you.

 

[Imari]

If one says on these forums... "This game is crap!" you will not only be attacked but most likely banned...

You're wrong, or I would have been banned a long time ago.

As for the original question, I believe society is a more pleasant place if I express my appreciation for people who do things that I like, even if it's their job. Likewise, I appreciate it when people do the same for me. It's much less fun when we're all robots who just stick to our little niches.

If somebody builds a good game, I'd like them to know that I think so. If they've built a game with problems I'd first like to interact with them and see if they want to fix it. If they do, then I appreciate that too, because sometimes bad products happen but there's a lot to be said for people who will go out of their way to make it right. If they don't want to fix it, then 🤬 them, they're assholes and I'll probably say so loudly and to everyone I know.

But I don't and won't assume your attitude of "everyone's just doing what they're paid for", because there's a massive difference in quality between someone just phoning it in and someone who really cares about the job that they do. I think the people who actually give a 🤬 about their job should see something for that, even if it's only warm fuzzies on the internets.

 

[Rallywagon]

You're not a very good nihilist or recluse. Last I heard, nihilists care about nothing... Lebowsky. You sure do seem to care a whole bunch about what other people think, and sure are conversing in a very anti-reclusive manner.
As for the opinion on the OP, a lot of games these days release in some form of beta, especially on the PC. This is always known, and a beta is not a finished product. You can, like all consumer goods, opt to buy in, or not. If you can't be bothered with bugs and work arounds, you probably shouldn't purchase/play these games. Now, as for why people are appreciative? Maybe it's because, as you admitted, you only play racing games, but, many games are far more than just a box with a disc in it. Quite a few people worked hard on the art, the sound and the story line. Many games are years in development for those reasons. Working out not just story lines, but multiple runs within the story. Fleshing out characters and locations, each different with a unique style and personality. It can be a monumental challenge. One certainly worthy of appreciation when it all comes together. And honestly, just because you don't appreciate all of those people and the work they put in, from developer to retailer, doesn't mean you shouldnt. That's not a nihilist mindset, that's just being an unappreciative jerk.
Btw, GT6 sucks. I won't get banned for that.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Hey look what I found. It seems you do understand the concept of two people looking, or in this case hearing, the same thing and having a different perspective on it.

The word is 'humour'... I am comparatively old and do not have great eye sight.....
You remind me of a guy who tried to sell me a very, very expensive Hi Fi many years ago now, in today's money about £10k.... he couldn't seem to grasp that just because his ears heard a certain set of speakers one way, mine didn't... and as it was my money I really could care less what he was hearing... a bit like like paying a small fortune for a gaming computer that my eyes simply do not warrant. Never mind

 

[Joel]

GT5 was crap, GT6 was alright but far too late to be worthy of praise. I admire the passion that went into creating both games, despite the mediocre end result.

Ban me!

 

[MatskiMonk]

This thread reeks of a previously banned member, coming back to troll the site with GT complaints, masquerading as a well-heeled Nihilist recluse, coming across more like a slightly deaf, slightly blind Narcissist - albeit one that has a grasp of collective nouns.

That's just my humble opinion though. I apologise if that's not the case

 

[ryzno]

I won't say that GT6 sucks, but to me it feels like a polished GT5, missing features that could have been copy and pasted like the rest of the game. That said I will wait for GT Sport... 3 strikes you're out, right?
As far as other companies, EA and their Origin, god don't get me started, I downloaded NFS Pro Street, I couldn't get the game to play for my life. I found a disk version and it worked fine after uninstalling their program, then they had the audacity to say it's my PC, then refused me a refund.(all the Sims games work )I just downloaded American Truck Simulator via Steam and I have no problems with a game not even a year old, so not my PCs fault. All companies have their faults, if you don't like it, move on...

 

[polysmut]

previously banned member

That's the feeling I've been getting throughout.
Some of the phrasing seems familiar.

I apologise if that's not the case

Me too, we are just guessing after all.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This thread reeks of a previously banned member, coming back to troll the site with GT complaints, masquerading as a well-heeled Nihilist recluse, coming across more like a slightly deaf, slightly blind Narcissist - albeit one that has a grasp of collective nouns.

That's just my humble opinion though. I apologise if that's not the case

For your own sake it's probably best to just report your thoughts on the matter to the appropriate mods. If you happen to be wrong on the subject this post could possibly be seen as an AUP violation.

 

[MatskiMonk]

For your own sake it's probably best to just report your thoughts on the matter to the appropriate mods. If you happen to be wrong on the subject this post could possibly be seen as an AUP violation.

I'm comfortable with that. It's a suggestion based on how I perceive the situation, with an apology already attached if I've missed the mark. I felt like chiming in with my opinion after the quote you posted - as someone who used to sell "very, very expensive Hi-Fi", the quote you posted triggered my desire to voice my opinion but I'm not out to report or see anyone banned.

 

[Samus]

This thread reeks of a previously banned member, coming back to troll the site with GT complaints, masquerading as a well-heeled Nihilist recluse, coming across more like a slightly deaf, slightly blind Narcissist - albeit one that has a grasp of collective nouns.

That's just my humble opinion though. I apologise if that's not the case

I think the giveaway is that this is a GT forum and not one of their posts are in a GT sub-forum, 90% are in the FM6 forum. Not saying someone wouldn't sign up to GTP to only participate in the non-GT forums but it seems rather unlikely.

 

[Scaff]

Not saying someone wouldn't sign up to GTP to only participate in the non-GT forums but it seems rather unlikely.

We have more than you think.

 

[Pupik]

Rather, if things are not 100% as they should be, it makes me very upset in a spitting blood sort of way because I have paid for this and it had better be right.

Life is going to only get more difficult for you, I suppose. Everything is going to disappoint you if you keep looking for faults in a highly-specialized interest. The internet breeds this sort of culture; feed off everyone's negativity, and I promise you that you'll come back for more of what you're looking for. Did you come here to discuss what you don't like about driving simulations, or to learn more about what you like about them?

Perhaps life will become easier, because you'll eventually outgrow the foolishness of being upset with everything in a video game, an escapist toy which has limited practicality and infinitesimal social usefulness in most people's lives.

But that is what happens way too often with games. There is a game out now which does not fulfil reasonable expectations one could have for the product... but a selection of people are so happy about the game it is akin to stalking

I don't think you understand what "akin" means; your statement blows things out of proportion. Why not be happy about what the game does? Do you realize how far gaming has come in the past 40 years? How much of the past is seen with rose-tinted glasses, yet it's actually really darn good today, for those who enjoy gaming it for what it is. Sure, nothing is perfect...chase perfection forever and you will be quite unfulfilled.

So my question is why are people 'grateful' to game developers when all they are doing is their job, which they get paid for and half the time the product is pretty poor anyway... if you think people should be grateful, then let me know because I have a car in a barn I can sell you.

I buy a car, and knowing that the failure of one or more components might mean injury, fear, incurred expenses, loss of time, social embarrassment, or possibly even death in rare circumstances. I board a plane 160 times a year, and you betcha that I have a bit of a grateful attitude towards the aeronautical expertise, the faith I put into the pilots' skills, and the mechanical hopes that my biggest problem might be a malfunctioning coffee machine on board. And yet, these transportation devices are there to make sure I can enjoy the other things and moments in life.

There's a quiet gratitude in those things one shouldn't quite be taken for granted. The manufacturers, designers, and engineers might not require any special reverence, but what if any of them wasn't there to complete that job or that project? If they didn't like their jobs? If they didn't put aside their differences to work as a team? If their minds were distracted by other things and events? Thus, the game designers, to that extent, fulfill something that might not have been created that made someone else very happy.

That's for each individual to understand for themselves; I can't force anyone else to feel the same. You might not feel that way, but forcing your idealism onto others isn't any more correct than those you disagree with.

 

[photonrider]

(In a nutshell

At no point do I find myself grateful to Big Ken or Sweaty Pete who built the car, Ted who delivered it or Michael who took my order.

I can understand this if you are coming from an anti-brown-nosing stance @Drave - but beware pf extending that thinking to everything - especially applying personally-formed expectations of any product you purchase. Buyer beware. We surely should get what we pay for - but what are you expecting when you pay for something? what is promised? how? These expectations should match up with what the product or service promises and not the other way around.
Not a lot to add to @Pupik's most excellent post on 'gratefulness' itself - but may I recommend some study of current neuroscience; the part of the brain active during periods of depression cannot work simultaneously when the part of the brain dealing with gratefulness is active. Something to 'think' about.