Phil Spencer Teases That the Next-Gen Xbox "Scarlett" Could Be a Family of Consoles

[KingK76]

8k60???!!! NEVER going to happen with next gen Consoles. 4k60 will be the target for the next gen consoles for all AAA games.

Exactly... Don't the people that write these articles have ANY clue as to what they are talking about?!?! 8K is 4 TIMES 4K!!! That would mean that in 2 years time that mainstream videocard technology would have to increase by 400% (and even higher considering that a Titan Xp isn't even enough to run every game at 4K60...). Generally every new generation of GPU's gain around 40-50% performance... And that is over 2 years! So the person writing this article thinks that in that same time-frame the GPU industry is going to magically increase by 10 TIMES that amount?!?! Come on... Give me a break! 8K is 32 Million pixels!!! 1080p is 2 Million! (4K is obviously 8 Million...). So in one console generation this writer expects the consoles to gain in power by 32 times (consider that the majority of games this generation are 1080p@30fps and he expects the beginning of the next generation to be 8K@60fps. That is a 32 fold increase from the beginning of the generation.... ridiculous.) Consider that from the beginning PS3/360 generation (which was 720p@30fps) to this current generation (1080p@30fps) was a 2 fold increase (obviously there were many other technological advances other then mere performance that this generation has gained over the last, but still...)... And that was over 8 YEARS!!!! 4K@60fps will be the target for the next generation, whith more advanced graphical features. That's it... Come on man.... Get a clue!

 

[Whitestar]

Several sites out there are saying that the PS5 will get a Navi chip with GTX 1080-ish (or maybe slightly better) performance. Based on that alone I would say that 4k60 is probably going to be the new target/standard for the new consoles. Isn't 4k30 sort of the standard now, at least for the Pro and X?

Anyway, that's still a good leap forward I would say. At least for people like me who think the 30-->60 fps leap has more visual impact than many other graphics features. I can't really see how they would achieve 8k60 even with bespoke solutions.

 

[Joey D]

Exactly... Don't the people that write these articles have ANY clue as to what they are talking about?!?! 8K is 4 TIMES 4K!!! That would mean that in 2 years time that mainstream videocard technology would have to increase by 400% (and even higher considering that a Titan Xp isn't even enough to run every game at 4K60...). Generally every new generation of GPU's gain around 40-50% performance... And that is over 2 years! So the person writing this article thinks that in that same time-frame the GPU industry is going to magically increase by 10 TIMES that amount?!?! Come on... Give me a break! 8K is 32 Million pixels!!! 1080p is 2 Million! (4K is obviously 8 Million...). So in one console generation this writer expects the consoles to gain in power by 32 times (consider that the majority of games this generation are 1080p@30fps and he expects the beginning of the next generation to be 8K@60fps. That is a 32 fold increase from the beginning of the generation.... ridiculous.) Consider that from the beginning PS3/360 generation (which was 720p@30fps) to this current generation (1080p@30fps) was a 2 fold increase (obviously there were many other technological advances other then mere performance that this generation has gained over the last, but still...)... And that was over 8 YEARS!!!! 4K@60fps will be the target for the next generation, whith more advanced graphical features. That's it... Come on man.... Get a clue!

I'm sorry you didn't care for the article, and I'm open to criticism and disagreements. However, I do have a clue. I rely heavily on what others in the industry say about potential new features and where the next-gen consoles are going. I don't get a chance to actually sit down with these folks and interview them about upcoming devices or games, so I have to rely on information from other sources or by watching press conferences via corporate sites.

Right now we know very little about the Scarlett or the PS5, so pretty much everything is a guess. I'm not saying that it will have XYZ, but I'm saying it's a possibility and others have said the same thing or similar things. This is going off of the fact the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro both do native 4K with 60 FPS for games that take advantage of it.

 

[Tornado]

8k is no problem (late) 2020
but by 2021 its a fact.

I suspect this "fact" will pan out about as much as the "facts" you brought up before the PS4 released of not being able to buy a 1080p set at all by 2016, PS4 being able to push 4k natively, Sony unveiling a 4K game streaming service following the Gaikai service purchase and GT6 definitely being a PS4 game; but do you still "work in the industry" or whatever it was you said then?

 

[DDastardly00]

I really doubt I am going to be interested in a streaming only device, though I own a select few digital titles, the majority of all my games are on disc and I intend to keep it that way. I am going to stick with disc games and if someday I can't, then I guess I will just be a retro gamer only. I use my consoles as blu ray players, DVD players and so on, a disc-less console would be utterly useless to me.

 

[Tired Tyres]

No, For AAA games the target for current gen consoles is to maintain 4k30. There is no AAA game out there which have TRUE 4k60 without checkerboard etc. I am VERY sure the next target will be TRUE 4k60 with enhanced visuals (like Dolby Vision) (which is totally fine, nobody will have a 8k TV in 2020, even now in 2018 I dont know that many who own a 4K TV, there are a LOT of people still using HD TVs).
And remember that even with 2 years away from the release of the next gen consoles Sony and MS are choosing their hardware NOW more or less today and then they develop the new console. They dont pick up a GPU and CPU which comes 1st half of 2020 to develop the console then. The decisions for hardware will be done now in the coming months (if not already happened). And today NO GPU and CPU will handle 8k60 - NEVER. (at least not for AAA games, where current gen consoles even struggle to mainatain a sloid 4k30).

Tokyo Olympics will be broadcast in 8K mate. They made that decision when they first won the right to host the games. All the Japanese electronic manufacturers were in on that from the start. They will be ready in time for those games. That's why the next Gen will be 8K regardless of what gamers want as their priority.

 

[Simracer92]

Oh dear. Think, what you want to think but 8K60 in games won't happen with next gen Consoles for sure.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Oh dear. Think, what you want to think but 8K60 in games won't happen with next gen Consoles for sure.

So do you think Sony are a stand still company? I did not mention 60.

 

[Nexus]

So do you think Sony are a stand still company? I did not mention 60.

Soo....5FPS?

 

[Jawehawk]

So do you think Sony are a stand still company? I did not mention 60.

They're probably not blind to adoption rates. It took a long time to transition from SD tv's to HD, and the transition to 4K is still ongoing and has been equally slow. The content section has it the worst.

Consumers aren't the brightest when it comes to technology, but getting them to buy into 8K when there's no content is not likely to be a success. The companies making the actual content aren't likely to be willing to spring for 8K before 4K has even paid off. Similarly, people who bought 4K tv's might want to actually see a return in investment through native 4K content before "upgrading" once more.

 

[Simracer92]

So do you think Sony are a stand still company? I did not mention 60.

But the original article does and thats impossible to achieve with next gen consoles and totally bs. And we are discussing real time rendering in games in 8k and not showing videos in 8k which doesnt need that much power as rendering games in 8k.

4k60 with enhanced visuals will be the target for all AAA games.

Todays consoles cant even handle TRUE 4k30 without frame drops on cross-platform AAA games so no way 8k games will be possible.

 

[Tired Tyres]

But the original article does and thats impossible to achieve with next gen consoles and totally bs. And we are discussing real time rendering in games in 8k and not showing videos in 8k which doesnt need that much power as rendering games in 8k.

4k60 with enhanced visuals will be the target for all AAA games.

Todays consoles cant even handle TRUE 4k30 without frame drops on cross-platform AAA games so no way 8k games will be possible.

I could not care less what you think about what will be possible in TWO years time. Each console generation is 40 times more powerful than the last one except for the PS4 which is a low tech solution about 10 to 12 times more powerful that the PS3. Now that Sony knows consoles can still be sold in large numbers PS5 will be as powerful as it needs to be to get the job done. Sony DO NOT stand still on Tech advances.

 

[Simracer92]

You still dont get it. Next Gen consoles might be 2 years away but Sony and MS choose their hardware more or less now and not next year and especially not in 2 years. They take what they get now/can develop now (Zen & Navi almost confirmed for PS5). These hardware wont be able to handle 8k. Not even the next gen nVidia cards 1180/2080 will be able to run 8k60. And remember that we still speak about a console and not a high tech pc. They wont put a 1000-2000 USD GPU into a console, they will put a mainstream GPU in it which could be on par with what todays GTX 1080 or maybe 1080 Ti can handle and that is NOT 8k in any way. It is a solid 4k60 experience with the possibility to run almost full Ultra settings and that is exactly the way the next gen consoles will go.
So technically there is no way the next gen consoles can handle 8k in any way if the hardware is not capable of doing so. Nothing Sony can do if the hardware for running native 8k is still many years away.

 

[Tired Tyres]

You still dont get it. Next Gen consoles might be 2 years away but Sony and MS choose their hardware more or less now and not next year and especially not in 2 years. They take what they get now/can develop now (Zen & Navi almost confirmed for PS5). These hardware wont be able to handle 8k. Not even the next gen nVidia cards 1180/2080 will be able to run 8k60. And remember that we still speak about a console and not a high tech pc. They wont put a 1000-2000 USD GPU into a console, they will put a mainstream GPU in it which could be on par with what todays GTX 1080 or maybe 1080 Ti can handle and that is NOT 8k in any way. It is a solid 4k60 experience with the possibility to run almost full Ultra settings and that is exactly the way the next gen consoles will go.
So technically there is no way the next gen consoles can handle 8k in any way if the hardware is not capable of doing so. Nothing Sony can do if the hardware for running native 8k is still many years away.

It is you that doesn't get it. 1. Tech of this type is scalable. 2. As I have told you Tokyo 2020 will be 8K. It is NOT many anythings away. You sound like someone who has bought a 4K TV and is desperately hoping you haven't made a mistake in buying into what was always a half way house before full 8K.

 

[Simracer92]

8k broadcasting is not 8k gaming. For 8k broadcasting you only need a 8k TV (which will still cost more than 10000 € in 2020 I think). For 8k gaming you need hardware which can render games with so many millions of pixels and those hardware is not available in 2018 (and as said they choose hardware now and not in 2020). The hardware is the limiting factor here (and the cost to develop a GPU which could handle to render AAA games in 8k).

Believe what you want to believe but don't be sad about the end result.

OH and BTW, you won't see any real advantage in 8k over 4k on small screens and I don't know anybody who would buy a 100 inch + screen. Biggest TV of my friends is a 65 inch TV and on that one you wouldn't see much of an improvement in 8k over 4k.

 

[Tired Tyres]

8k broadcasting is not 8k gaming. For 8k broadcasting you only need a 8k TV (which will still cost more than 10000 € in 2020 I think). For 8k gaming you need hardware which can render games with so many millions of pixels and those hardware is not available in 2018 (and as said they choose hardware now and not in 2020). The hardware is the limiting factor here (and the cost to develop a GPU which could handle to render AAA games in 8k).

Believe what you want to believe but don't be sad about the end result.

OH and BTW, you won't see any real advantage in 8k over 4k on small screens and I don't know anybody who would buy a 100 inch + screen. Biggest TV of my friends is a 65 inch TV and on that one you wouldn't see much of an improvement in 8k over 4k.

You haven't got a clue what you are talking about. That much is obvious. Goodbye. Conversation over.

 

[Nexus]

You haven't got a clue what you are talking about. That much is obvious. Goodbye. Conversation over.

The only GPU's on the market that are capable of playing games comfortably at 4K are enthusiast grade, and aren't exactly cheap. Furthermore, as @Simracer92 said again, the parts used in consoles are planned at least a few years in advance, not in the year that they're revealed/launched.

And if two 1080Ti's struggle with 8K gaming, what makes you think that the hardware in the PS5 (which will almost certainly be far less powerful than this) will be capable of doing that?

 

[Tornado]

Tokyo Olympics will be broadcast in 8K mate. They made that decision when they first won the right to host the games. All the Japanese electronic manufacturers were in on that from the start. They will be ready in time for those games. That's why the next Gen will be 8K regardless of what gamers want as their priority.

It is you that doesn't get it. 1. Tech of this type is scalable. 2. As I have told you Tokyo 2020 will be 8K. It is NOT many anythings away.

I think it's great that the Xbone S can play games at 4K60, though I never understood why they also made the X.

 

[PzR Slim]

I think it's great that the Xbone S can play games at 4K60, though I never understood why they also made the X.

When I'm playing games on my X I'm really glad they did.

 

[Tired Tyres]

The only GPU's on the market that are capable of playing games comfortably at 4K are enthusiast grade, and aren't exactly cheap. Furthermore, as @Simracer92 said again, the parts used in consoles are planned at least a few years in advance, not in the year that they're revealed/launched.

And if two 1080Ti's struggle with 8K gaming, what makes you think that the hardware in the PS5 (which will almost certainly be far less powerful than this) will be capable of doing that?

Xbox1X does 4K/60? The next gen of consoles will be massively more powerful than that. You are thinking only in PC terms. Now that Sony will now be confident enough about the continued success of consoles then the custom chip advantage can be regained.

 

[Simracer92]

Xbox1X does 4K/60? The next gen of consoles will be massively more powerful than that. You are thinking only in PC terms. Now that Sony will now be confident enough about the continued success of consoles then the custom chip advantage can be regained.

4k60 on either Indie Games or Xbox exclusive games, yes, but also the X can't handle AAA games like Assassins Creed Origins in 4k60 but only in 4k30 with some frame drops. Anyway, to discuss this with you is time wasting..
We won't see 8k in games with next gen Consoles, there is simply no way any hardware in the world can handle that (with price of maximum 500 Euro in mind) when even 2x 1080 Ti can't handle that.

 

[Tornado]

Xbox1X does 4K/60?

By your logic so far, the Xbone S does.

You are thinking only in PC terms.

Because that's the kind of hardware the PS4 is almost certainly going to have.

Now that Sony will now be confident enough about the continued success of consoles then the custom chip advantage can be regained.

But it won't. Sony is not going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to develop a console that will also lose them hundreds of millions of dollars per year so they could maybe sell some more TVs or something; and Sony never had any reason to lack confidence on the success of game consoles as a concept even after the bath they took in 2006 when they did do those things. Of both those things we can be quite sure, because Sony has no reason to do these things.


5 years ago they debuted the most powerful console on the market for a lower price than its chief competitor and made a profit on every one from day one anyway. Then they walked away from the competition in sales and market share; and now the gaming division along with their image sensors basically prop up Sony's other largely-failing divisions. You want to talk confidence? Sony should be pretty confident that they don't need to spend money to develop custom chips and increased production costs to chase the cutting edge that people are claiming they are targeting just like they were in 2012; since they deliberately did not with the PS4 and it paid off to near PS2 levels and it allowed them to double dip mid-generation for the people who would pay the additional price. Sony should be pretty confident that their commanding lead had at least some basis in the system being publisher-friendly and inexpensive to develop and produce to begin with. And Sony certainly can't afford SCE in 2019/2020 to have the market performance that SCE in 2006/7 did.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Sony has no reason to do these things.

Yes they do. It is called Microsoft. You know what happens when you rest on your achievements.

 

[Nexus]

Xbox1X does 4K/60? The next gen of consoles will be massively more powerful than that.

...most "4K" games on the PS4 Pro/Xbox One X aren't actually 4K - they're running at upscaled 4K. Even some of the native 4K titles are only running at 30FPS, there's only so much you can do in terms of software optimisation on what's essentially a midrange PC.

You are thinking only in PC terms. Now that Sony will now be confident enough about the continued success of consoles then the custom chip advantage can be regained.

Consoles use PC hardware...

It is called Microsoft. You know what happens when you rest on your achievements.

Microsoft doesn't make GPU's, they don't have anything capable of 8K gaming either.

 

[Tornado]

Yes they do. It is called Microsoft. You know what happens when you rest on your achievements.

Microsoft has even less reason to do it, since shareholders have been calling for the division's head since the billion dollars put aside for RRoD was rolled into the billions of dollars Microsoft had already lost on the Xbox division to that point because of the original Xbox. It's just that, unlike Sony, the Xbox part of the company doesn't prop up the rest of the company so much as exist as part of a larger division that turns a decent profit; which would make it easier to sacrifice but no more popular when it comes to billion dollar yearly losses.


The time for razors and blades ended when the sheer amount of losses that started happening last console generation (like the first few years of the PS3 wiping out all of the profit Sony had ever made with the brand to that point) had to be compared to the amount of money Nintendo was making hand over fist by shareholders. Repeating "you don't know what you're talking about" and "but the Olympics!" over and over again doesn't do much to suggest they are returning.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Microsoft has even less reason to do it, since shareholders have been calling for the division's head since the billion dollars put aside for RRoD was rolled into the billions of dollars Microsoft had already lost on the Xbox division to that point because of the original Xbox. It's just that, unlike Sony, the Xbox part of the company doesn't prop up the rest of the company so much as exist as part of a larger division that turns a decent profit; which would make it easier to sacrifice but no more popular when it comes to billion dollar yearly losses.


The time for razors and blades ended when the sheer amount of losses that started happening last console generation (like the first few years of the PS3 wiping out all of the profit Sony had ever made with the brand to that point) had to be compared to the amount of money Nintendo was making hand over fist by shareholders. Repeating "you don't know what you're talking about" and "but the Olympics!" over and over again doesn't do much to suggest they are returning.

Fine. So in other words Sony don't have to make a significant advancement on the next gen console in order to sell it? Cool.

 

[Simracer92]

Fine. So in other words Sony don't have to make a significant advancement on the next gen console in order to sell it? Cool.

Exactly. And in addition they simply can't do any significant advancement in terms of resolution with the hardware which is available today,even if they would want

 

[Jawehawk]

Fine. So in other words Sony don't have to make a significant advancement on the next gen console in order to sell it? Cool.

Because resolution is all that matters...

 

[Tired Tyres]

Because resolution is all that matters...

Have you seen Destiny 2 on PC and PS4 pro? If you had you'd know that it matters. A lot. But keep telling yourself it doesn't if it makes you feel better about it. 👎

 

[ImaRobot]

Have you seen Destiny 2 on PC and PS4 pro? If you had you'd know that it matters. A lot. But keep telling yourself it doesn't if it makes you feel better about it. 👎

I don't think that jump is only resolution, but also an upgrade in textures and the like as well. The Xbox One X patch is probably more closer to what you see on PC compared to what the PS4 Pro is offering, so that's probably why you see a larger difference.