Poll - 1.13 Penalty System Initial Impressions

[dabz343]

I've just realised this poll might be flawed as the people complaining about the new system the most are in higher ranks and seriously outnumbered by everyone else.

Definitely true and IF the new penalty algorithm is indeed operating on a tiered system then a simple poll such as this will not sufficiently isolate precise areas of gripe/opportunity.

For clarity, the intent behind this poll was to capture a broad view of how all the drivers, regardless of DR/SR, feel about the changes. Hence the disclaimer, "Don't overthink it."

 

[Jamie Bbbbb]

I think PD have made a bold, but overly-risky and possibly naive move with this new system. It promotes cleaner driving, at the expense of more random frustrating incidents and more-disjointed races. However, it may be a wise move if they are confident that the small but mostly dedicated bunch of Sport Mode players will grow to appreciate this new direction. I would guess that 95% of people who will ever enthusiastically play Sport Mode are already doing so and will see the new system for its benefits. The potential problem is if new, inexperienced players are put off due to the harshness of penalising the slightest of imprecisions.

 

[dabz343]

Deeper analysis should be done here - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/just-raced-under-the-new-algorithms-and-rules.375584/

Just a quick reminder.

 

[Voodoovaj]

From what I've read in another thread, that's incorrect. It seems as though it's based on strength of field according to this:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/championship-points-scoring-system.367630/

Your DR affects the score, and yes the DR of others as well, but it's more than just your finishing position and the field make up. It also scores your drive.

You can have a terrible mistake filled drive and finish second and score fewer points than a perfect drive where you finish 3rd or 4th. It's happened to me and the competitors remain fairly consistent.

Even if I am wrong about it, and it's just coincidence that the scoring is different, we have all seen the old penalty system in action. You could apply half throttle in a full throttle area and scrub off penalty time. You could brake in a non braking zone and scrub off time. The game most definitely knows where you should be doing what.

Also, the AI knows what to do and where to do it. Obviously, the AI has to be using some indicator of where to brake and where to accelerate. If the AI can use is, the scoring system can as well.

I think PD have made a bold, but overly-risky and possibly naive move with this new system. It promotes cleaner driving, at the expense of more random frustrating incidents and more-disjointed races. However, it may be a wise move if they are confident that the small but mostly dedicated bunch of Sport Mode players will grow to appreciate this new direction. I would guess that 95% of people who will ever enthusiastically play Sport Mode are already doing so and will see the new system for its benefits. The potential problem is if new, inexperienced players are put off due to the harshness of penalising the slightest of imprecisions.

As the old saying goes, you only get one chance to make a first impression. The bulk of players already tried Sport a long time ago, made their judgement, and moved on to other things if they didn't like it.

This change now is indeed very risky because I am surely not the only player saying "no way" to Sport mode races for the time being.

With fewer players, matchmaking is more disjointed. With lesser drivers getting more lenient penalties, it will drive away higher rated drivers. If you survive corner one, and you are up front, things will be fine. I'll see what the middle of next week is like.

 

[FPV MIC]

Your DR affects the score, and yes the DR of others as well, but it's more than just your finishing position and the field make up. It also scores your drive.

You can have a terrible mistake filled drive and finish second and score fewer points than a perfect drive where you finish 3rd or 4th. It's happened to me and the competitors remain fairly consistent.

Even if I am wrong about it, and it's just coincidence that the scoring is different, we have all seen the old penalty system in action. You could apply half throttle in a full throttle area and scrub off penalty time. You could brake in a non braking zone and scrub off time. The game most definitely knows where you should be doing what and where.

Also, the AI knows what to do and where to do it. Obviously, the AI has to be using some indicator of where to brake and where to accelerate. If the AI can use is, the scoring system can as well.

You keep mentioning the scoring system, but the fact is no one knows exactly how the point system works. Unless you check every person in each race you do in the FIA events, and the totals of their points (and yours) and your finishing position are dead on the same, then, and only then, can you start to make assumptions about the system scoring your drive. It must be taken in to account that all B drivers, for example, are not equal. 10k to 30k points is a very large range. The field could look fairly even but have a great deal higher/lower total points tally. Do you have any proof that this scoring system of your drive exists?

Regarding the old system, it was also far easier to scrub off a penalty on a slower circuit than a fast one, so I think speed was also part of the equation, not just throttle position.

I also would hate to have my driving judged by how the AI is programmed to accelerate and brake .

Apologies for the OT to the OP also.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

This change now is indeed very risky because I am surely not the only player saying "no way" to Sport mode races for the time being.

From the point of the game devs and the numbers floating around breaking down the the percentage of players in the different DR brackets then from the devs point of view since DR S and DR A combined are only about 2-3% of the total Sport players a system that caters to the other 97% of players would be the correct system to put in place to benefit the largest percentage of players.

All PD needs actually is enough "S" ranked players to fill the grids for their FIA championships and otherwise probably could care less about the players holding higher rankings.

They are much more interested in the total number of players who are playing the game rather than how high those players are ranked.

I could care less in reality what letter of ranking the game assigns me as a player as long as I can get good clean competitive races that I have fun racing. I do realize that sometimes I will get lobbies that fill that bill better than others.

So in my opinion overall for the MAJORITY of the people playing the game this change thusfar has been a home run for PD in stopping the aggressive bulldozing type of position advancement that was the norm in Sport mode before the change driving away many from playing the Sport mode.

 

[Matty28]

The game must be looking at driving in detail (either that or the system is now completely broken/glitched). I finished 15th today after a crashfest caused by the penalty system. You can see my SR has plummeted but my DR has shot from 57k to exactly 70k. Either it glitched or it's seen how fast I am and jumped me straight to where my DR should be rather than me spending the next month or so gradually increasing it. It used to be based on finishing position relative to the quality of the drivers in the lobby with you. After this race prior to the update my DR would have gone down. The only way it can have gone up like that is because it has either glitched or taken my fastest lap or is analysing braking points, speed through corners etc.

 

[mclarenLB]

*post*

Nah, that's a known bug that happens when you drop to SR B whilst DR S, has been a thing for a little while now. Its meant to immediately kick you out of DR S but instead the reset point is 70k, I have no idea why.

 

[jimbo197]

Personally I saw it as quite a simple fix - add an SS safety rating and make the safety rating scale go to 150 or 200 instead.

Not sure why we needed a whole new system? Getting penalties for being hit just seems daft.

 

[mclarenLB]

Personally I saw it as quite a simple fix - add an SS safety rating and make the safety rating scale go to 150 or 200 instead.

Not sure why we needed a whole new system? Getting penalties for being hit just seems daft.

Because with a fundamentally broken system everyone decent would just immediately reach SS.

 

[jimbo197]

Because with a fundamentally broken system everyone decent would just immediately reach SS.

Was it fundamentally broken though? I never had a dirty race with SR S.

 

[Matty28]

Nah, that's a known bug that happens when you drop to SR B whilst DR S, has been a thing for a little while now. Its meant to immediately kick you out of DR S but instead the reset point is 70k, I have no idea why.

Haha so in the end a crashfest was my ticket to the top 24 . Weird bug. Unless it jumps back down again after the next race of course...

 

[mthomas_95]

Haha so in the end a crashfest was my ticket to the top 24 . Weird bug. Unless it jumps back down again after the next race of course...

Won't be getting into the Top 24 with a B SR , even S isn't enough as it needs to be at least 90/99

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Major leap forward imo. I had a great streak of races yesterday. I have only done 2 Monza races so far, yet both went great, for me at least. Started in 5th first race, finished second. Started in 10th second race, finished 4th. Both races no problem in T1. First race I got dive bombed twice, right car got punished, they did not get away with it. Red ratings at the end and all. Seems the right people are getting punished now.

I did get a 5 sec penalty from the second dive bomb in the final turn of the race. Still didn't help him pass me, he got a bigger penalty. The rest was far behind from sloppy driving. Loving it so far.

My SR has been stuck to 99, no more punts off the track, no more pushed off the track. The only thing that needs improving is where you can serve penalties. Some trolls were swerving while serving penalties, luckily they got ghosted in time so I could simply drive through them. In a daily C penalty serving should be restricted to the pit, stop and go if your time exceeds 10 sec, else just add it on to the finish or regular pit time.

 

[muz]

I am utterly frustrated. My dr and sr both took a huge dive due to 1 incident. Following someone and they slammed on the brakes on a straight. I couldn't do anything to avoid( i suspect they were ditching a penalty) this gave me a huge penalty and i ended up last. This is why sport is losing players. Takes ages to climb ranks (i only get a couple races a week as i have a life) and 1 race destroys your ratings so you fall back into crashfest. It needs to ghost people quicker when they are acting odd.

1 crash lost me 30 manner points and over 1000 dr points. It takes me a week or longer to get back.

 

[Pedinhuh]

It's a step in the right direction, but needs a lot of fine tuning.

 

[ScottPuss20]

So yeah, if you don't serve the penalty quickly your penalty will increase. I found myself with a 5 second penalty on the back straight of Monza in yesterday's Daily Race, after cutting the chicane just before it. When I reached the main straight, it had increase to 9 seconds. Oh dear. At least I got a 5 second penalty for accidentally punting someone, rather than a 10 second one. That is a plus.

 

[Matty28]

Won't be getting into the Top 24 with a B SR , even S isn't enough as it needs to be at least 90/99

Lol yeah but I can get it back up to 99 before the last race of this season if I do enough clean daily races.

So yeah, if you don't serve the penalty quickly your penalty will increase. I found myself with a 5 second penalty on the back straight of Monza in yesterday's Daily Race, after cutting the chicane just before it. When I reached the main straight, it had increase to 9 seconds. Oh dear. At least I got a 5 second penalty for accidentally punting someone, rather than a 10 second one. That is a plus.

This is a bit dodgey though - sometimes it bumps up your penalty and sometimes you can serve it whenever you want/have it added on at the end. I have no idea how it decides, it seems to be random.

 

[_ApexPredator]

I think we can probably all agree that the old system was too lenient; you could serve a penalty without even realising it just through normal driving - so clearly that wasn't optimal.
But, from my experience so far, it's ruining what would otherwise be enjoyable races.

I like to have those lap-long side-by-side battles, those moments where you're both being compliant, both giving each other racing room, both committed to racing each other clean; but with the best will in the world there can often be slight contact in those situations, and do we really want to penalise racing?

I'll link a Manufacturer race from the day of the patch that I think illustrates the points me and @kilesa4568 are trying to make far better than I can describe.



Are the penalties in that race consistent with everyone else's experience? I've heard some people say that they can get bumped by a driver attempting a move and they receive no penalty, whereas others say that they're getting severe penalties for the lightest of contact - which has been my experience, so far.

 

[mthomas_95]

Lol yeah but I can get it back up to 99 before the last race of this season if I do enough clean daily races.

It does look like the DR system is struggling to compute 'dirty' S drivers as it naturally expects them to stay at a high SR and struggles when they drop to B or lower. After racing you at Brands yesterday I can safely say you're not one of those , but does explain how some guys have been ranked highly in top lobbies recently and been very slow for the door number (got the DR reset).

 

[VFOURMAX1]

This is a bit dodgey though - sometimes it bumps up your penalty and sometimes you can serve it whenever you want/have it added on at the end. I have no idea how it decides, it seems to be random

I believe as long as the penalty is less than 5 seconds total then the penalty can be served whenever or carried to the end of the race with no additional time added. Above 5 seconds it must be served fairly quickly.

I had one race yesterday that I had a 2 second minor penalty acquired on like lap 2 of an 11 lap race. I carried that 2 seconds to the end and towards the end of the race I had like a 3+ second lead over the car behind me so I did not lose a position by not serving the penalty.

I've heard some people say that they can get bumped by a driver attempting a move and they receive no penalty, whereas others say that they're getting severe penalties for the lightest of contact - which has been my experience, so far

I had one instance yesterday where a driver attempting an overtake on the downhill approaching the chicane on Kyoto that gave him no reasonable angle to enter that chicane at the bottom of the hill.

He attempted the banging into my cars side to move me over off my line but I knew it was coming and held my line and he hit me 3 times trying to move me. I did not receive a penalty for his actions but I do not know whether he was penalized or not although he should have been.

In the past I would have gotten a penalty so perhaps the system is working better for the "victim" but not sure.

It was nice seeing that his bulldozing method of position advancement did not work and did not cost me a penalty. This was at DR B, SR S.

 

[Matty28]

I believe as long as the penalty is less than 5 seconds total then the penalty can be served whenever or carried to the end of the race with no additional time added. Above 5 seconds it must be served fairly quickly.

I had one race yesterday that I had a 2 second minor penalty acquired on like lap 2 of an 11 lap race. I carried that 2 seconds to the end and towards the end of the race I had like a 3+ second lead over the car behind me so I did not lose a position by not serving the penalty.

Didn't think of that but yeah I think you're right. Mine that went up started at 7.6s while the ones I've seen continuing were <5s. That's a pretty good policy, but relies on it accurately deciding how long your penalty should be which it really struggles with at the moment.

 

[HellzFire]

I'm suprised the majority of the people are in favor of the new system, from what im looking it didnt look like this was the case.

That's good cause i also like the direction they're going for.

 

[2011Z]

I got sandwiches by two dirty drivers tonight and they took me out bad. In one race my SR went from A to C all for something I didn’t do! I was behind them as they scrapped and tried to go up the middle as they were crashing. There was a gap so I went for it! I had no bad intentions at all! Just trying to capatalise and I got hugely penalized for it! It’s infuriating!

 

[kjeldsen]

I'm suprised the majority of the people are in favor of the new system, from what im looking it didnt look like this was the case.

That's good cause i also like the direction they're going for.

The new system will force many of the current high ranking drivers to change their driving style in order to stay at the top. It is natural that it would be something that would bring out a vocal minority.

 

[the8INGman]

I like the fact that penalties force you to slow down. However I find that quite often I'm purposely slowing down and the penalty remains the same. This then means I am losing slot more time than necessary.

I am also finding there is a lot more contact from behind that goes unpunished. I am not proud to admit it but I have accidently shunted people and not received any penalty. I am DR:C SR:S, and genuinely do my best to avoid any contact, simple driver error means that is not always possible though.

 

[manion]

Its just my opinion but I think penalties should not be able to be scrubbed off

 

[kilesa4568]

I got sandwiches by two dirty drivers tonight and they took me out bad. In one race my SR went from A to C all for something I didn’t do! I was behind them as they scrapped and tried to go up the middle as they were crashing. There was a gap so I went for it! I had no bad intentions at all! Just trying to capatalise and I got hugely penalized for it! It’s infuriating!

Infuriated that you chose to go for a gap between two crashing drivers or infuriated that you got a penalty for trying something so risky?

 

[dabz343]

The results so far speak for themselves. I wonder if it will continue to follow the current trend now that the weekend drivers will have a go with the new system?

 

[NAXEHT]

My initial impression is what on earth has happened? Rollback. I suppose I’ll have to give it some more races before I cast my vote but dear me, those two second penalties for slight, slight, slight touches...