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- GTP_TheCracker
Porsche 991 Information Released
- Thread starter Tornado
- 1,004 comments
- 80,835 views
Robin
Premium
- 16,799
- United Kingdom
Now to just wait for digital dashes to come back.
They already have
Most supercars and sports car's have them (although they are in an analogue style) and its even started to creep into normal cars.4 wheel steering is so last century, it proved to be more trouble than it was worth and yet another thing overcomplicated just waiting to fail plus expensive to fix. Lets see if we can master two wheel steering first!
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- 27,203
- United Kingdom
Four-wheel steering is a mixed-bag. Honda did it both well and badly, since their mechanical system on the old Prelude was always fairly sound, but the electrical system on later Preludes was prone to failing. And companies like Peugeot and Mazda used passive rear-steering to brilliant effect, but the clue in that one is "passive".
Renault has used it recently too with some of the Lagunas, and apparently it works wonders for the handling - one magazine took a Laguna GT around a slalom course quicker than a Twingo RenaultSport, which is quite impressive.
When it works, it's usually pretty good.
The main trouble is usually that for more experienced drivers on circuits taking cars to the limit, rear-steering has some undesirable effects. But for the average joe driving less than 8/10ths in daily driving, it can be quite beneficial.
Renault has used it recently too with some of the Lagunas, and apparently it works wonders for the handling - one magazine took a Laguna GT around a slalom course quicker than a Twingo RenaultSport, which is quite impressive.
When it works, it's usually pretty good.
The main trouble is usually that for more experienced drivers on circuits taking cars to the limit, rear-steering has some undesirable effects. But for the average joe driving less than 8/10ths in daily driving, it can be quite beneficial.
RocZX
Premium
- 8,849
- New York
Few manufacturers are offering four wheel steering on current models .....
BMW has Integral Active Steering and it's available on a few models
Lexus has Dynamic Handling system, which will be on the '13 GS.
Infiniti has 4-Wheel Active Steer which is available on a few models.
BMW has Integral Active Steering and it's available on a few models
Lexus has Dynamic Handling system, which will be on the '13 GS.
Infiniti has 4-Wheel Active Steer which is available on a few models.
- 434
- JurupaValley,Ca
- marluxiaXI11
There was also quadrasteer on GM trucks not too long ago.
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- 27,203
- United Kingdom
RocZX
Can't believe I forgot that one, as I drove it only a few months ago. It's on the range-topping GS 450h F-Sport. Actually works pretty well - the thing dives into corners so quickly you end up having to wind off some steering until you get used to it. Certainly more nimble than the GSs without the system.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,353
- Texas
See, I hate the fact you guys get that model. Lucky bastards.
I've driven a couple GS350 F-Sports with & without DHS and it's pretty noticeable from my short couple drives. Without it, the car's still very fun to drive & you can give the tail a couple quick kicks. With it equipped on the 3rd available F-Sport option, it really hugs that back end though.
Personally, I think it's nice blend of having a RWD car w/ a touch of AWD capability. The system really makes itself known if you give to much gas at slow speed into a corner & hampers the rear end, which is part of the point of it.
But, absolutely right on the nimbleness & diving into corners. It tends to build a bit of confidence except that it is easy to overstep it's limits.The car itself is amazing, though. Not to suddenly drift off-topic, but I should have a good review of the car here soon & even one of the current topic car after a few drives in it as well.
- 27,203
- United Kingdom
Personally, I think it's nice blend of having a RWD car w/ a touch of AWD capability. The system really makes itself known if you give to much gas at slow speed into a corner & hampers the rear end, which is part of the point of it.
It's amazing how much it helps the rear end. I'd been driving it around some switchbacks in Austria, and it just stuck. Turned far quicker than any ~4,000 lb sedan has any right to.
Here's my review of it. It'd actually make me think twice about getting an equivalent Jag XF (the 3.0D), which says a lot. The Jag is brilliant, but the Lexus just feels more punchy, and on balance I'd expect the hybrid to return better economy than the diesel most of the time.
Back on topic... as for the 911, I'd be interested to see how 4WS works with it. I expect most systems up until now have been on front-engined vehicles, so I wonder how they'll tune the system to work on a rear-engined car? Expect high-speed cornering stability might be a priority.
Keef
Premium
- 24,975
- Dayton, OH
- GTP_KeefRacer
- GTP Keef
The 991 in general resembles the Cayman because it's longer than ever and the cabin is farther forward than ever. I think that while the 991 has some very nice details in its design, it's also the worst 911 design of all time because of its poor proportioning. So poor that I actually prefer the 996 despite its ugly details and weak fenders. Porsche needs to up the ante with the next 911 and get it to set back on its haunches like the older ones.
- 1,847
- London
- Ziz528
I saw one of these new 991's on the road yesterday, and I do like the look of it much much more compared to the 996's and such. The new lights and slight changes to its profile make such a difference.
- 4,213
- Puerto Rico
- motortrend
In the 997 I preferred the GT3 overall be it looks or the pure experience but dang the turbo suits the 991 perfectly. Hopefully it's not much more expensive than the already quite expensive GT3 (not that I'll be able to afford neither anytime soon)
- 1,459
- USA
At least change the design a tad bit. No one likes the same old car again.
- 897
- NRW
- Third_Reign
They did? If you can't tell the differences to the previous generation, you're clearly not a Porsche enthusiast.
And also, if something has worked for centuries...why change it?
- 23,800
- Philippines
There's a 991?
What was the 996? The one with the scrambled egg headlights? Oh... always assumed those were aftermarket. Like Altezzas.
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For people who don't really care about 911s, most of them look the same. I can only tell because I'm paid to write about them.
While the car's overall shape is dictated by its layout, Porsche, after being so liberal with the styling in the 70's and 80's, even going so far as to do this:
...started becoming conservative. The "retro" round headlights stayed on... and on... even when aero requirements dictated they be laid flat. And when they finally decided on trying something else, with the scrambled eggs lights on the 996, they still went back afterwards due to negative feedback from customers.
Of course, the negative feedback was only partially because they strayed from formula... it might have worked if the lights were actually pretty.
This conservative slant is even more telling when you note that they were deathly afraid of giving the Cayenne anything but a 911 face scraped off some poor, cannibalized car and stretched Hannibal-the-Cannibal style over the Cayenne's front end. And then they did the same thing with the Panamera, only this time they skinned an entire car. I'm hoping they do a Cayenne-level facelift on the rear end of that thing, soon. (Yes, I've seen it up close. My uncle has one. Fantastic car, from the front. Still hate the ass).
Porsche have evolved the design enough so that an attentive enthusiast could spot the difference, but I can understand when most people can't tell the difference between the last three generations of 911. Especially if the guy who buys the 996 secondhand decides to buy a kit that converts it to the 997 front lights and bumper...
What was the 996? The one with the scrambled egg headlights? Oh... always assumed those were aftermarket. Like Altezzas.
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For people who don't really care about 911s, most of them look the same. I can only tell because I'm paid to write about them.
While the car's overall shape is dictated by its layout, Porsche, after being so liberal with the styling in the 70's and 80's, even going so far as to do this:
...started becoming conservative. The "retro" round headlights stayed on... and on... even when aero requirements dictated they be laid flat. And when they finally decided on trying something else, with the scrambled eggs lights on the 996, they still went back afterwards due to negative feedback from customers.
Of course, the negative feedback was only partially because they strayed from formula... it might have worked if the lights were actually pretty.
This conservative slant is even more telling when you note that they were deathly afraid of giving the Cayenne anything but a 911 face scraped off some poor, cannibalized car and stretched Hannibal-the-Cannibal style over the Cayenne's front end. And then they did the same thing with the Panamera, only this time they skinned an entire car. I'm hoping they do a Cayenne-level facelift on the rear end of that thing, soon. (Yes, I've seen it up close. My uncle has one. Fantastic car, from the front. Still hate the ass).
Porsche have evolved the design enough so that an attentive enthusiast could spot the difference, but I can understand when most people can't tell the difference between the last three generations of 911. Especially if the guy who buys the 996 secondhand decides to buy a kit that converts it to the 997 front lights and bumper...
- 40,692
I see more differences at a glance between a 993, 996, 997 and a 991 than I do *any Aston made since 2000* and *any other Aston made since 2000*. Break it down to side profile only like that, and you can push that back to also include *almost any Aston made since 1993*.
"Here's the DB9."
"Here's the DB9, except it's got body cladding from a Grand Prix."
"Here's the DB9, except it's got body cladding from a different Pontiac."
"Here's the DB9, but it's got white taillights."
"Here's the DB9, but it's all smoothed out."
"Here's the DB9, but it's a bit longer."
"Here's the DB9, but it's a bit longer and has a Peugeot front end."
"Here's the DB9, but it's a bit shorter."
"Here's the DB9, but it's a bit shorter and has holes cut in the hood."
"Here's the DB9, but it's more muscular."
"Here's the DB9."
"Here's the DB9, except it's got body cladding from a Grand Prix."
"Here's the DB9, except it's got body cladding from a different Pontiac."
"Here's the DB9, but it's got white taillights."
"Here's the DB9, but it's all smoothed out."
"Here's the DB9, but it's a bit longer."
"Here's the DB9, but it's a bit longer and has a Peugeot front end."
"Here's the DB9, but it's a bit shorter."
"Here's the DB9, but it's a bit shorter and has holes cut in the hood."
"Here's the DB9, but it's more muscular."
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- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
See, I can tell all models of both modern Astons and 911's with two exceptions: the Virage and the newest DB9 look identical to me, and the 997 and 991 are hard to tell when you see them from the front or front 3/4. I suppose side mirror location is the easiest give away from that perspective, and obviously the rear's easy to figure out.
Astons? Not a problem, really. The DB7 was all soft versus the rest of the line, the first-gen Vanquish had those bizarre fenders, and the first DB9 really ushered in the smoothed pebble lines we have now. After that: DBS has the natty body kit, V8 Vantage has different proportions and squashed headlights, the V12 version got a different hood and rear bumper, the Rapide has the extra doors, the afore-mentioned Virage, the new DB9 usurps it, and the new Vanq has a different body kit compared to that.
I'm ignoring the numerous recent Zagatos and the One-77 for obvious reasons.
Astons? Not a problem, really. The DB7 was all soft versus the rest of the line, the first-gen Vanquish had those bizarre fenders, and the first DB9 really ushered in the smoothed pebble lines we have now. After that: DBS has the natty body kit, V8 Vantage has different proportions and squashed headlights, the V12 version got a different hood and rear bumper, the Rapide has the extra doors, the afore-mentioned Virage, the new DB9 usurps it, and the new Vanq has a different body kit compared to that.
I'm ignoring the numerous recent Zagatos and the One-77 for obvious reasons.
- 23,800
- Philippines
See, 70's and 80's model Porsches, no problem. The 993? Easy. It's the one that doesn't look like an old Porsche OR a new Porsche. But from the 996 onwards, except for the scrambled-egg headlamps, things have not really changed much. Which is why the 996 to 997 front-end conversion kit actually works.
The 997 to 991, in particular, is as much structural change as you can make to a car while having it look almost exactly the same. It's almost MINI-esque in this regard... except MINI's structural changes were even less, and the slightly wall-eyed look that pedestrian safety regs give the newer car give it away.
This is nothing against the 991. I'm sure it drives wonderfully, and it's great that the lower Carrera variants are now pushing on 997 GT3 levels of performance, but it's pretty obvious Porsche is deathly afraid to drop its marketing milking cow... the "Porsche Look".
Could be worse... they could be handing cars over to design students on psychoactive substances, then selling the results for a few million quid, each... and I honestly do like the looks of the 991. But I understand if people who don't know that a model change was scheduled won't be able to tell that a model change has occurred at all.
The 997 to 991, in particular, is as much structural change as you can make to a car while having it look almost exactly the same. It's almost MINI-esque in this regard... except MINI's structural changes were even less, and the slightly wall-eyed look that pedestrian safety regs give the newer car give it away.
This is nothing against the 991. I'm sure it drives wonderfully, and it's great that the lower Carrera variants are now pushing on 997 GT3 levels of performance, but it's pretty obvious Porsche is deathly afraid to drop its marketing milking cow... the "Porsche Look".
Could be worse... they could be handing cars over to design students on psychoactive substances, then selling the results for a few million quid, each... and I honestly do like the looks of the 991. But I understand if people who don't know that a model change was scheduled won't be able to tell that a model change has occurred at all.
- 4,213
- Puerto Rico
- motortrend
The pre-964 are usually people's problem since many refer to the post 2.0/2.2/2.4/3.0/2.7 as 930 and within the pre 964 there are different denominations like the SC or the turbo(930) from what I understand the G series is simply the late 80s 911 and there are many more denominations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsch...C_I.2C_J_and_K_series_.281983.E2.80.931989.29
What I do with pre-964s is just call them by their liters (I use 930 for the turbo) to avoid confusion, plus also the differentiation bwtween long and short hoods and within the long hoods the wheelbases which I'm not very knowledgeable of.
Another 911 codename some people don't know is the 965 that is the 964 turbo, which was the last turbo to have a different codename to the normal 911 variant.
Also I don't really like the 996s steering wheel, shame it's on the CGT, one of my favorite cars.
One more thing, there was also a flatnose 965
