Potential ideas to stop DR tanking in the next FIA championship

[JayOTT]

The strength of field scoring system was supposed to encourage raising your DR as high as possible to compete for the most points in any given FIA race. But as these past championships went on, it became clear that top split wasn't necessarily where you wanted to be. Players in less competitive countries/manufacturers could still pick up enough points from split two, and these splits were often a lot easier to score in. Hence, some players kept their DR down to avoid the top split, and full credit to them, this was a competition and there was no rule against it.

It is however, a rule flaw that needs looking at before the next official season. And after giving it some thought, I have arrived at two matchmaking alternatives. Both of these use Asia-Oceania as an example (EMEA would require more splits). Typically in Asia, top split was all A+, split two the A+/A crossover, split three all A, and split four the A/B crossover...

Plan A

My idea would be to have three points scoring splits in each timeslot. A+ drivers would be guaranteed a spot in one of these splits, whilst A drivers would have to set a free practice time, with the slowest A's missing out unless fewer than 60 A+/A drivers sign up. In this scenario, the fastest B drivers would be given a wildcard to fill out the three splits. In any case, the drivers would then be seeded based on DR and matched so that all three splits are theoretically equal in strength. Points would be awarded 20-1, ignoring strength of field.

This would eliminate the urge to tank, and make A+ the highly sought after rank that it should be. It also gets rid of those annoying moments where the points table plummets because one or more drivers failed to connect to the lobby. However there is one issue with this system... a lack of parity. With drivers who would normally be in split three racing top split drivers, the field would spread out and perhaps make the race less exciting. This is where my other idea comes into play...

Plan B

This plan involves placing all of the A+/A drivers, as well as the fastest B's if needed, into four 'heats', using the same seeding as in plan A. These heats would do the usual qualifying session, then a sprint race. After the sprint, new lobbies would be created, with the top 5 in each heat going to top split, 6th-10th in split two, 11th-15th in split three, and the rest missing out. The grid for these feature races would be determined by finishing position in the sprints first, qualifying times second.

Top split would race for 60-41 points, split two for 40-21, split three for 20-1. Much like Plan A, this takes away the need to tank and should make the points fairer. It also ensures that the feature races have parity and that the best of the best in each timeslot end up racing each other. The drawback is that this is a much more complex system to implement, especially in EMEA.

Potential concepts common to both plans

Another issue common to both formats is what we do with non-scoring splits. One solution I can think of would be to have the highest (or two highest) rated non-scoring splits in each timeslot offer an exemption reward for the race winner, which would allow them to be treated as an A+ driver for matchmaking purposes in a future round. I would also have increased credit rewards across the board, giving even C and D rated drivers a reason to have a go.

As for SR, it should be made clear that a player is only eligible for the points scoring lobbies if their SR is above a certain threshold. But this threshold needs to be made apparent in game... in other words, S SR should be enough. Either bump S SR to 90+ or make the threshold for entering high SR lobbies 80+.

There may still be issues with what I've proposed (some timeslots are weaker than others and there isn't much that can be done about that), but I think both of these ideas have the potential to remove some of the issues that presented themselves during the 2018 championships. I eagerly await your thoughts.

 

[steviea712]

It was also an issue I experienced and no doubt others were exploiting

I believe the lobbies should have some ‘base points’ (I believe t24 lobbies have this?) so if you end up in the top split you are guaranteed to still get a decent haul of points even if you end up towards the back of the field and actually give an incentive for aiming to be good enough to get a place in the top lobby. These base points would decrease down through the 2nd, 3rd etc lobbies to provide than incentive to get in the top lobby

 

[VeeDoubleU]

there's a very simple and easy fix for this....

....get rid of the 75K DR Cap.

The problem about lower splits getting more points 'undeservadly' is only comparable between Split 1 and Split 2.

Split 1 would have way way more points if those drivers weren't capped to 75K. These drivers are often way better than Split 2, but due to the cap, the points aren't as high as they should be to make up for the extra skill in the split.

Split 1 is essentially capped to approximately 3000-3200 (not sure of the exact value but that's a rough estimate) and Split 2 is often over 2000 points for a win back in the proper FIA Seasons at peak time, which is worth around 5th or 6th in Split 1.

Hence lift the cap, the points for Split 1 will increase exponentially, and then a win in Split 2 would be more relative to a lower result in Split 1.

Also, MAYBE add a small base points score, of about 1/8th of winning score for Split 1 (and maybe have lower and lower base values per split) because I think 0 points for last makes no sense with the rest of the linear 'everyone else gets some points' system. So with a 4000 1st place score, 500 base points.

A win in Split 2 shouldn't be behind last place in Split 1, but it is stupid that it can often be equivalent to around 5th, and a DR Cap Lift solves that issue.

No need for specific guaranteed splits or stuff with some scoring and some not (although I do think mentioning what SR is needed would actually be a good idea)

 

[mthomas_95]

Along with removing the DR cap and adding some form of base points to top split, I'd also reduce the timeslots from 5 to 4 (maybe even 3). Even in EMEA there was always a 'weak' timeslot which scored the same amount of points at top split as a 2nd split race during a busier time.

To make up for the reduced number of timeslots they can spread them out more and that would allow longer races so the tyre strategy they seem to want to introduce can be better balanced. Less timeslots also concentrates the players better, so you'll see less of a difference between timeslots so everyone is competing for a similar number of points.

 

[JayOTT]

Oh yes, they definitely have to raise and/or remove the DR cap. That round 6 farce where RNG decided the superstar grids was enough evidence on it's own that 75k is too low. However it's hard to predict just how many points top split would be worth if the DR cap is removed. So I'm not sure it would be as effective as a format change in stopping the DR tank strategy, though it is something that PD can test before the next official championship.

As for the issue where a player failing to connect to the lobby tanks the points table for everyone else, there is a simple solution to this as well; let players reconnect to a lobby they've been disconnected from, as long as the race itself hasn't begun yet. That would've been really useful in round 10 EMEA manufacturers and who knows how many other races...

 

[Lord Protector]

The strength of field scoring system was supposed to encourage raising your DR as high as possible to compete for the most points in any given FIA race. But as these past championships went on, it became clear that top split wasn't necessarily where you wanted to be. Players in less competitive countries/manufacturers could still pick up enough points from split two, and these splits were often a lot easier to score in. Hence, some players kept their DR down to avoid the top split, and full credit to them, this was a competition and there was no rule against it.

It is however, a rule flaw that needs looking at before the next official season. And after giving it some thought, I have arrived at two matchmaking alternatives. Both of these use Asia-Oceania as an example (EMEA would require more splits). Typically in Asia, top split was all A+, split two the A+/A crossover, split three all A, and split four the A/B crossover...

Plan A

My idea would be to have three points scoring splits in each timeslot. A+ drivers would be guaranteed a spot in one of these splits, whilst A drivers would have to set a free practice time, with the slowest A's missing out unless fewer than 60 A+/A drivers sign up. In this scenario, the fastest B drivers would be given a wildcard to fill out the three splits. In any case, the drivers would then be seeded based on DR and matched so that all three splits are theoretically equal in strength. Points would be awarded 20-1, ignoring strength of field.

This would eliminate the urge to tank, and make A+ the highly sought after rank that it should be. It also gets rid of those annoying moments where the points table plummets because one or more drivers failed to connect to the lobby. However there is one issue with this system... a lack of parity. With drivers who would normally be in split three racing top split drivers, the field would spread out and perhaps make the race less exciting. This is where my other idea comes into play...

Plan B

This plan involves placing all of the A+/A drivers, as well as the fastest B's if needed, into four 'heats', using the same seeding as in plan A. These heats would do the usual qualifying session, then a sprint race. After the sprint, new lobbies would be created, with the top 5 in each heat going to top split, 6th-10th in split two, 11th-15th in split three, and the rest missing out. The grid for these feature races would be determined by finishing position in the sprints first, qualifying times second.

Top split would race for 60-41 points, split two for 40-21, split three for 20-1. Much like Plan A, this takes away the need to tank and should make the points fairer. It also ensures that the feature races have parity and that the best of the best in each timeslot end up racing each other. The drawback is that this is a much more complex system to implement, especially in EMEA.

Potential concepts common to both plans

Another issue common to both formats is what we do with non-scoring splits. One solution I can think of would be to have the highest (or two highest) rated non-scoring splits in each timeslot offer an exemption reward for the race winner, which would allow them to be treated as an A+ driver for matchmaking purposes in a future round. I would also have increased credit rewards across the board, giving even C and D rated drivers a reason to have a go.

As for SR, it should be made clear that a player is only eligible for the points scoring lobbies if their SR is above a certain threshold. But this threshold needs to be made apparent in game... in other words, S SR should be enough. Either bump S SR to 90+ or make the threshold for entering high SR lobbies 80+.

There may still be issues with what I've proposed (some timeslots are weaker than others and there isn't much that can be done about that), but I think both of these ideas have the potential to remove some of the issues that presented themselves during the 2018 championships. I eagerly await your thoughts.

I pointed this out way before the Final Season started (actually some time in last year!!) but nothing changed. And I must admit, after playing the first few pre-seasons in 2017 I quickly realised it is not beneficial to get matched with my "class".

Example: Why risking a P10 finish with the fastest guys and getting 1300 points when I can finish P3 with slightly worse people and get 1800 points?

Unless PD bans these tactics in future I don't see me punishing myself for trying to race with people as quick as I am.

 

[rono_thomas]

Some nice ideas, two issues that I see is,

whilst A drivers would have to set a free practice time,

I think theres to much potential for weaker racers to pull of a fluke. Think this would need a lap limit or time limit.

then a sprint race.

I think daily sport mode problems could migrate to FIA races.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

I was playing with this idea for quite a while now, since I myself have bled my DR from 60k to 48k by constantly placing badly in FiA races. Whether or not you consider it tanking is up to you, but for me it is and I felt guilty of what I did

My (really rough) proposal as of now is to 1: remove the DR Cap, and along with it the points restriction the capped Strength of Field induces. And then 2: Make it so that last place of a higher split will garner one more points than first place in a lower split.

The reasoning behind is to incentivise players to actually try and get the most competitive room they can get into instead of hoping for a lower split. The removal of a DR Cap means people would compete and raise their DR as much as possible for the next round to get into the highest split that they can (as a side effect this may bring back top split players to dailies which can solve the current DR disparity there). With these two aspects combined, it could create for a much more competitive environment and possibly seeing much more top split rooms

However, this idea, like I said before, is really rough and has its fair share of flaws.
1: this will create a really big disparity to people who have time and those who don't- even more than it already does right now. One would need to constantly gain DR in dailies to have hope in competing in the top split.

2: The whole points system in itself needs to be revised to be able to accomodate my proposition. This is because the points table will spiral into the tens of thousands if we keep our current points system calculation and then adding first place's points in the lower split as "base points". This could potentially render the Top 24 Superstars useless.

3: This method only caters to the top split lobbies. It would be devastating and extremely demoralizing for the lower split drivers to see such points differences between themselves and the top split players. This could turn away even more players from the FiA events, which in itself is already a niche community

I hope that this idea can help/be merged with another idea/polished/anything so we don't have to face this dilemma anymore

 

[Lord Protector]

I was playing with this idea for quite a while now, since I myself have bled my DR from 60k to 48k by constantly placing badly in FiA races. Whether or not you consider it tanking is up to you, but for me it is and I felt guilty of what I did

My (really rough) proposal as of now is to 1: remove the DR Cap, and along with it the points restriction the capped Strength of Field induces. And then 2: Make it so that last place of a higher split will garner one more points than first place in a lower split.

I had been thinking the same thing that this would actually fixed it, but then I realised it isn't so easy to make it work...

I once tried joining the last FIA time-slot race and I got matched to the room full of D/S drivers, I was the only S/S... got around 200 points for P1. My point is, PD will never know the rank of the players, hence they cannot implement this solution.

UNLESS, PD reimagine the ranking system and come up with something like divisions, where people can only be matched within the same division and then P20 could get more points than P1 in a lower division.

 

[sundaydriving]

If they want to stop DR tanking for FIA base points are a necessary addition.

Base points should be calculated based upon the strength of the field rather than fixed.

I also think they should probably reduce the spread between first and last in all lobbies as well. With points allocated for all positions including the last finisher. Maybe only let those that DQ or quit before the end get 0.

I don't believe the last finisher in a higher lobby should get more points than first in the lower lobby. There are just too many variables and that would be extreme.

 

[Lost Sheltie]

I am not sure why this is a problem. The only people points matter for is the very top guys, and they need to be in the top split races.

For the rest of us, sure the points is a nice pointer to how good we are, but it doesn't affect anything. Sure you can tank your DR to get max points in a lower tier race, but you don't get anything out of it. No prizes, no invitations, no nothing. I can understand the frustration of getting lower points than someone in a lower ranked race, but it doesn't really matter.

It's like the people who tank their SR/DR to get wins. If they want to then fair enough, but I would far rather have a good race against good drivers for 10th, then have a mediocre one where I just win from the front.

 

[VeeDoubleU]

I am not sure why this is a problem. The only people points matter for is the very top guys, and they need to be in the top split races.

For the rest of us, sure the points is a nice pointer to how good we are, but it doesn't affect anything. Sure you can tank your DR to get max points in a lower tier race, but you don't get anything out of it. No prizes, no invitations, no nothing. I can understand the frustration of getting lower points than someone in a lower ranked race, but it doesn't really matter.

It's like the people who tank their SR/DR to get wins. If they want to then fair enough, but I would far rather have a good race against good drivers for 10th, then have a mediocre one where I just win from the front.

Someone who is in 2nd split and does well will get more points in that split than they probably would in 1st split, hence making it more likely for them to get a spot at the finals for their nation or car.

If 2 drivers are in the same manufacteurer, and Driver 1 has a higher DR and finishes 10th in Split 1, they will actually be beaten by a lower rated driver, Driver 2, doing well in a lower lobby but getting more points, and hence representing the manufacteurer at finals purely because of a poorly done system, and not because of being better.

 

[Lost Sheltie]

I agree I can see it happen over a couple of races, but for the main series I just don't think it is an issue. The best drivers end up needing to be in the top split to get 2000+ points otherwise they simply don't stand a chance, and you don't see that too often in a 2nd split race.

Of course I could be completely wrong

Thinking about it, could they not just completely hide the DR (eg stop kudos and others from accessing it). Then you wouldn't know what you required to do to get 2nd tier/1st tier. People could still tank, but would be no way to know if you tanked too much/too little.

 

[Venster]

Kind of agree with @Lost Sheltie on this, it’s a pretty small problem that I’m not has affected the result that much. The majority of players who have qualified have been top split drivers getting good points from those lobby’s.

To me though the easiest solution is

1. Your DR should be separate from daily races and fia. This would stop easy tanking from daily’s as well as stopping easy farming for DR. It should be purely based on your performance in fia.

2. It already runs an algorithm to work out the top points, so why not one for last position as well. So if you have a lobby full of 75k top points are like 3200 for a win, the bottom could be 1200 ish. A lobby partly full of A+ and A would be 2500 for a win but last 800. Then so on down the ranks.

This takes out the situation where if you come last in a top lobby you get 0 and literally any DR can out score you. There will be always a way to game the system but I think that would work pretty well.

 

[HERE4BEER3]

Spoiler

Just so I get this straight, if you finish last in a top 24SS race you take a DR hit? If true, how about instead of DR being judged at all where you finish, it is instead just solely based on time. There is no reason the 20th fastest person in the region should lose DR for running a race faster than thousands of other people. I'm not sure how they could implement it since DR is updated live but DR can go up or down based on the drivers time finishing the race relative to either everyone with the same DR or everyone in general, as opposed to just the drivers in the same race.

Top 10th Percentile +2000 DR
10th-20th percentile +1500DR ETC..

I'm sure the system they have now is the easiest for them to implement and other methods may not even be possible unless we are willing to wait 24hrs for DR to update, but I think this methods would be fairest to the fastest drivers and keep slow drivers from raising their DR higher than it should be.

Nevermind, I missed the whole point of the OP. I kept my original in spoilers in case anyone cares for my thought's on how DR points can be issued.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

I agree I can see it happen over a couple of races, but for the main series I just don't think it is an issue. The best drivers end up needing to be in the top split to get 2000+ points otherwise they simply don't stand a chance, and you don't see that too often in a 2nd split race.

Of course I could be completely wrong

Thinking about it, could they not just completely hide the DR (eg stop kudos and others from accessing it). Then you wouldn't know what you required to do to get 2nd tier/1st tier. People could still tank, but would be no way to know if you tanked too much/too little.

Kind of agree with @Lost Sheltie on this, it’s a pretty small problem that I’m not has affected the result that much. The majority of players who have qualified have been top split drivers getting good points from those lobby’s.

To me though the easiest solution is

1. Your DR should be separate from daily races and fia. This would stop easy tanking from daily’s as well as stopping easy farming for DR. It should be purely based on your performance in fia.

2. It already runs an algorithm to work out the top points, so why not one for last position as well. So if you have a lobby full of 75k top points are like 3200 for a win, the bottom could be 1200 ish. A lobby partly full of A+ and A would be 2500 for a win but last 800. Then so on down the ranks.

This takes out the situation where if you come last in a top lobby you get 0 and literally any DR can out score you. There will be always a way to game the system but I think that would work pretty well.

It's a problem for small countries/manufacturers that will eventually somehow make it to the Live Events. For example in Pre Season 1 I was 2nd in Singapore behind LMP_LuisMoreno and ahead of LMP_te9500rpm. The reason why I beat te9500rpm is because I got better results in lower split lobbies while he got worse results in higher split lobbies. Granted this isn't the Final Season, but these kinds of cases could happen. The 2nd tier splits can still give you 1900-2100 points, so if you think you have the pace and you're in a small country/manufactuter, the 2nd tier splits seem so much more of a viable option than running as mid/backfield fodder in the top split

 

[Venster]

It's a problem for small countries/manufacturers that will eventually somehow make it to the Live Events. For example in Pre Season 1 I was 2nd in Singapore behind LMP_LuisMoreno and ahead of LMP_te9500rpm. The reason why I beat te9500rpm is because I got better results in lower split lobbies while he got worse results in higher split lobbies. Granted this isn't the Final Season, but these kinds of cases could happen. The 2nd tier splits can still give you 1900-2100 points, so if you think you have the pace and you're in a small country/manufactuter, the 2nd tier splits seem so much more of a viable option than running as mid/backfield fodder in the top split

Yeah I can see it’s a potential problem but a small one. I see it more that it’s a problem with the cap, eventually you end up with guys that haven’t scored as heavily qualifying, the cap gives them that opportunity.

The manufacturer series was easy to game in respect that you pick a less populated manufacturer. But it very much depends, nations for example it’s much harder for the top ones to game this system. The UK is an example of this, you pretty much have to be in a top split and do well to qualify.

The other point being is the gap between 1st and 2nd split isn’t so big, yes I understand if a top 75k player drops to the second split they would dominate it, but it’s still a pretty competitive race. I’m not sure it’s fair to suddenly say because your not top 75kdr or haven’t got time to farm it from daily’s you get barely any points. Not everybody are in these splits gaming the system some are trying their best to get a good result and qualify. I don’t have time to farm DR, assuming I could do this but whatever DR I am at the time is the race I enter.

I think my algorithm system would work, at least there would be a bigger crossover of points. I don’t want a system that eventually favours only the best, it demoralises 90% of the player base.

 

[zzz_pt]

I was reading through some suggestions on the last couple of pages and no one pointed out the other side of the coin.

As we know, top split lobbies only accommodate 20/24 drivers. But there are other drivers who are just as fast as them who can not be in the same lobby, even if they enter the 18:00h races.

It happened to me (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) to enter an FIA race with slower drivers than usual but my total race time would be enough for a top 5 in the top split lobby. I didn't choose to be placed in a lobby with slightly slower drivers, so it wouldn't make sense to get less points than the P20 of the top split lobby. It just doesn't make sense. Also, higher DR doesn't always mean faster or better drivers. It means, more often that not, a fast driver with lots of hours put into the game.

 

[Lord Protector]

I am not sure why this is a problem. The only people points matter for is the very top guys, and they need to be in the top split races.

For the rest of us, sure the points is a nice pointer to how good we are, but it doesn't affect anything. Sure you can tank your DR to get max points in a lower tier race, but you don't get anything out of it. No prizes, no invitations, no nothing. I can understand the frustration of getting lower points than someone in a lower ranked race, but it doesn't really matter.

It's like the people who tank their SR/DR to get wins. If they want to then fair enough, but I would far rather have a good race against good drivers for 10th, then have a mediocre one where I just win from the front.

Good points, of course it is much more fun to play with people of the same skill but hey, it might have helped me get

I was reading through some suggestions on the last couple of pages and no one pointed out the other side of the coin.

As we know, top split lobbies only accommodate 20/24 drivers. But there are other drivers who are just as fast as them who can not be in the same lobby, even if they enter the 18:00h races.

It happened to me (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) to enter an FIA race with slower drivers than usual but my total race time would be enough for a top 5 in the top split lobby. I didn't choose to be placed in a lobby with slightly slower drivers, so it wouldn't make sense to get less points than the P20 of the top split lobby. It just doesn't make sense. Also, higher DR doesn't always mean faster or better drivers. It means, more often that not, a fast driver with lots of hours put into the game.

I kinda did say something similar, but regular FIA races are matched by DR points so if you ended up in a slower lobby, that means there was 20+ "better" drivers than you. What I'm trying to say is although you didn't choose that, you could have prevented it by bumping up your DR

But still, I think if players could only be matched with the same rank that would be far better. But it needs some precautions so players not end up in lobby with 3 people

Idk...

 

[zzz_pt]

I kinda did say something similar, but regular FIA races are matched by DR points so if you ended up in a slower lobby, that means there was 20+ "better" drivers than you. What I'm trying to say is although you didn't choose that, you could have prevented it by bumping up your DR

What if I can only be online for one of the last races because of work, let's say? I could be 75K and would get less points for no reason other than schedule.

 

[Lord Protector]

What if I can only be online for one of the last races because of work, let's say? I could be 75K and would get less points for no reason other than schedule.

Yes, but that happened to me anyway exactly that, with the way it works now I got matched with D/S drivers and got 200 points for P1, so that would not change anything really

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Yeah I can see it’s a potential problem but a small one. I see it more that it’s a problem with the cap, eventually you end up with guys that haven’t scored as heavily qualifying, the cap gives them that opportunity.

The manufacturer series was easy to game in respect that you pick a less populated manufacturer. But it very much depends, nations for example it’s much harder for the top ones to game this system. The UK is an example of this, you pretty much have to be in a top split and do well to qualify.

The other point being is the gap between 1st and 2nd split isn’t so big, yes I understand if a top 75k player drops to the second split they would dominate it, but it’s still a pretty competitive race. I’m not sure it’s fair to suddenly say because your not top 75kdr or haven’t got time to farm it from daily’s you get barely any points. Not everybody are in these splits gaming the system some are trying their best to get a good result and qualify. I don’t have time to farm DR, assuming I could do this but whatever DR I am at the time is the race I enter.

I think my algorithm system would work, at least there would be a bigger crossover of points. I don’t want a system that eventually favours only the best, it demoralises 90% of the player base.

Yeah it is also a problem for people who are at cap. It needs to be removed

 

[mthomas_95]

I don’t want a system that eventually favours only the best, it demoralises 90% of the player base.

Even as it stands there's nearly a 3,000 point difference between a win at A+ and D lobbies, not sure how pushing that up closer towards 4,000 harms the D drivers all that badly.

At the end of the day when running a competitive event you should have a system that rewards the top guys the most? The fact so many were openly discussing or considering tanking their DR or SR highlights it's an issue.

The other point being is the gap between 1st and 2nd split isn’t so big

I've seen many get caught out by this belief tbh. A lot of the 1st split lobbies in the Official Seasons in EMEA could've easily been a Top 24 in terms of ability, where even the guy in about 15th would be front row in Split 2. Reading through the FIA thread you see a lot of posts during T24 rounds of guys who were usually at the back of top split picking up the wins and podiums because that's when the 'aliens' were locked away

 

[VeeDoubleU]

But still, I think if players could only be matched with the same rank that would be far better. But it needs some precautions so players not end up in lobby with 3 people

Idk...

Driver Rating is a linear 75000 point scale. The actual letter ranks are merely a visual 'mark' and in no way should be used as actual cut off points for FIA Splits.

All you would do there is annoy people between 50-60K DR who are constantly finishing 15th to 20th and getting barely any points as well as reducing the number of people they are realistically going to race, as they could have plenty of good races with people just below A+, so you're ruining their potential fun too

 

[Venster]

Yeah it is also a problem for people who are at cap. It needs to be removed

I meant the country limit. If the DR cap was removed it would only benefit people who have time to do daily’s often. There would be a huge gap eventually and matching would be ridiculous. I wouldn’t have time to do daily’s over and over to farm DR so I would end up stuck in low lobby’s. DR system works in the most part it’s the point system that needs tweaking to work with it.

Even as it stands there's nearly a 3,000 point difference between a win at A+ and D lobbies, not sure how pushing that up closer towards 4,000 harms the D drivers all that badly.

At the end of the day when running a competitive event you should have a system that rewards the top guys the most? The fact so many were openly discussing or considering tanking their DR or SR highlights it's an issue.



I've seen many get caught out by this belief tbh. A lot of the 1st split lobbies in the Official Seasons in EMEA could've easily been a Top 24 in terms of ability, where even the guy in about 15th would be front row in Split 2. Reading through the FIA thread you see a lot of posts during T24 rounds of guys who were usually at the back of top split picking up the wins and podiums because that's when the 'aliens' were locked away

Yeah I understand that and agree, I meant I wouldn’t want to see a huge point gap between 1st and 2nd split as I don’t believe the gap deserves it.

It depends what we class as 2nd split? I’m high DRA and this off season I sneak in higher lobby’s (as rank 20 XD). I don’t think I have top split pace but equally I didn’t come last. I don’t see the pace gap is that big maybe just consistency?

 

[cleanLX]

higher DR doesn't always mean faster or better drivers. It means, more often that not, a fast driver with lots of hours put into the game.

This times a thousand, and I've said it many times before.

there are other drivers who are just as fast as them who can not be in the same lobby, even if they enter the 18:00h races.
It happened to me (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) to enter an FIA race with slower drivers than usual but my total race time would be enough for a top 5 in the top split lobby.

Dr. has no place in the FIA with regards to matchmaking.
Because as @zzz_pt points out, Dr. is related to "time invested".
Matchmaking by Sr. and qualifying.
And to make qualifying mean something, and not be a 1 lap wonder implement part of @JayOTT Plan B... heat races to select qualifying position.

I fully understand (I think it could be better, but I get it) it in Sport mode... BEING random pairings set 24hrs a day, throw of the dice.

 

[Azerach]

If you removed DR cap that would lead to even more DR banking. Players are already quitting the game outside of FIA to safe guard their DR. I don't know many people who enjoy in other games risking hundreds - if not thousands - of ranking points in order raise theirs by only 10-20 points.

 

[JayOTT]

I am not sure why this is a problem. The only people points matter for is the very top guys, and they need to be in the top split races.

It's important to stress that it really depended on your specific championship situation. Japanese players in the Nations Cup needed to brave the top split if they were going to make it inside the top 10 of their country. But for players outside of Japan, split two would often suffice.

Based on what has been said so far, it seems like Plan B would be the better option out of the two I proposed, as long as the potential issues with it can be ironed out...

I think daily sport mode problems could migrate to FIA races.

It wouldn't erase all issues, but I think that by reverting to all FIA races being rolling starts, you could mitigate the problems. Save the grid starts for live events only. And if we take mthomas's suggestion to reduce the timeslots to 4, we can set these slots 75-80 minutes apart and use that time to make the heat race longer.

Under the current system, the winner of split two does still deserve to outscore the backmarker/s in top split, as they still had to drive reasonably fast to get that win, and if you could trundle around in last place in the higher split and score more that wouldn't be fair either. That's why heat races could work; because then you have to actually beat the drivers who end up in split two before you can earn the privilege of trundling around at the back and still scoring well.

And I think DR should be important, otherwise there would be way too many entrants to make heats work, even in the smaller regions. But with this format you only need to make it to A DR, which isn't a huge grind in the grand scheme of things. The same can be said about Plan A's format, which is still worth consideration because, since the heats would be unnecessary, you can make the final a longer race and some might like that.

 

[sundaydriving]

This times a thousand, and I've said it many times before.


Dr. has no place in the FIA with regards to matchmaking.
Because as @zzz_pt points out, Dr. is related to "time invested".
Matchmaking by Sr. and qualifying.
And to make qualifying mean something, and not be a 1 lap wonder implement part of @JayOTT Plan B... heat races to select qualifying position.

I fully understand (I think it could be better, but I get it) it in Sport mode... BEING random pairings set 24hrs a day, throw of the dice.

Interesting suggestion. Maybe something like this could be made to work.

I agree that DR is related to time invested. If you don't race, you don't gain or lose DR. The theory is that the more you race the more stable your DR should become. This isn't quite what happens in reality.

Likewise time invested will show in improved qualifying lap times. Invest no time and your lap times will probably be poor.

The issue with ignoring race results, which DR takes into account, is that hot lapping is not the same as racing so you will eventually find players able to set fast times but with little ability around traffic.

 

[cleanLX]

The issue with ignoring race results, which DR takes into account, is that hot lapping is not the same as racing so you will eventually find players able to set fast times but with little ability around traffic.

excellent point... hmm...