PP-Tuning system correlation is now ruined

[Daniel55]

A step in the right direction by my standards.

Is also like to see tyre choice deleted from affecting pp ratings, as it was in gt5/gt6.

By this logic, let's just delete the whole PP system.

Every change that affects the car should be reflected in the PP rating, otherwise is pointless. This is a step backwards

 

[Pizzapants]

Update 1.23 ruined the tuning system by completely "deleting" the effects of the suspension adjustments. How can someone at PD think that this is a good idea?

A big section of the tuning system is now broken because tweaking the suspension settings have literally no effect on the car's performance.

What's the point in having different suspension types if the tweaks have no effect? Why should people pay for the more expensive suspension that unlocks all the customisation options if those have no effect? Why is there a digital book (the apex book or whatever it's called) detailing what every setting does if in reality those settings are not taken into account?

If someone at PD is seeing this, PLEASE restore this change to how it was before! This is basically cutting a big portion of the tuning system just because the PP system is not perfect.

Edit: to clarify, changing the suspension settings don't change either the performance of the car, or the PP rating. As you can see in the pics below, the Acceleration Performance, Stability and Rotational G don't change anymore if I change the suspension settings:View attachment 1196210View attachment 1196209

Nah, you're wrong. The performance of the car still changes. Just not the SIMULATED performance when it does its pretend tests to determine PP rating. You can't judge what the car will do in a real race based on its simulated tests when you hit the "measure" button. stupid, but true.

This whole mess is simply because PD hates the idea of players getting anything approaching a decent amount of credits per hour, and is too incompetent to actually fix their tuning system.

weakest game in the entire GT series by far.

 

[RacinLei]

The good thing is, these weirdo tomahawk detunes not gonna work anymore 👍 finaly they have to drive the cars they should be driven.

 

[KAlex122]

The good thing is, these weirdo tomahawk detunes not gonna work anymore 👍 finaly they have to drive the cars they should be driven.

Not good if thats there last straw to playing this game at all...

 

[NJ72]

I think the title "Tuning system is now ruined" is very misleading. The tuning system itself has not changed this update as far as I know - i.e. the performance impact of any tune is still the same.

The PP system may, in your opinion, be 'ruined' but even then that's a stretch.

 

[RacinLei]

Not good if thats there last straw to playing this game at all...

But these tomahawk detunes is the reason for the broken pp system. They should add new group categoris or limit events by bhp and not pp.

 

[KAlex122]

I find it good as it is, because:

Before you where thinking: well, let get a good tune, maybe if i do this and that i get it under xxxPP.

Now you just think: get the PERFECT setup without thinking: if i lower this i can maybe get more HP out of it under xxxPP.

Now: Perfect setup first and than adjust weight and power.

Even getting Aero and Tires out would be ok. Every Racing Team can adjust Aero on the go (mostly) and tires in races with tire wear have up and downsides. Only in races without tire wear the actual PP system makes sense.

 

[breeminator]

If you are in a lobby now, a player can have a faster car than yours and you don't even know it because the PP is the same.

This is also how it was before, two cars with the same PP didn't necessarily perform the same. You have exactly the same job as before, to make your car as fast as possible for the PP limit. Whereas before people would adjust suspension settings to lower PP and hence allow reduced weight or increased power, for example, now people will adjust suspension settings to make the car faster.

 

[KAlex122]

But these tomahawk detunes is the reason for the broken pp system. They should add new group categoris or limit events by bhp and not pp.

Other way round would be right. Tomahawk is not the reason for anything but people still playing the game. The PP system (broken) is the reason for the Tomahawk.

 

[RacinLei]

Other way round would be right. Tomahawk is not the reason for anything but people still playing the game. The PP system (broken) is the reason for the Tomahawk.

Hmm if the tomahawk is the last straw to play Gt, maybe its time for another game. These brainless farming with detuned cars is not what Gt should be. And yes, these massive detune youtube farming vids was in my opinion the reason for Pd to change te pp system.

Ps:
Gt should be a skill based reward system and not a, hey look how i detune a 1300bhp car to 800pp and lap all cars twice.

 

[Eggstor]

It was done because many players used suspension exploits online , side effect is that it also affects exploits for grinding but this was expected

I'll argue that it was mostly to get those of us who used these exploits to grind. PD/Sony has to promote their MTX, as evidenced by spending nearly 500,000 Cr. for a time-gated 5-star Wheel of Despair, which has only a 21% chance of getting something worth more than what you paid for the the ticket (13% chance of getting 500,000 Cr., 1% chance of getting 1,000,000 Cr., and 7% chance of getting a car worth at least 500,000 Cr.) and a 15% chance of getting something that's priceless (10% chance of getting a special tuning part and 5% chance of getting an engine).

 

[KAlex122]

Hmm if the tomahawk is the last straw to play Gt, maybe its time for another game. These brainless farming with detuned cars is not what Gt should be. And yes, these massive detune youtube farming vids was in my opinion the reason for Pd to change te pp system.

I don't care why anyone plays but it was just an affect of PD getting there PP system wrong. PD shouldn't have waisted a minute on some people exploiting their system but make the game overall better. So still: Tomahawk cause nothing, Tomahawk was caused by PD.

 

[FOG-Smokebeer]

It's better now changing my ride height shouldn't disqualify my car unless it's against the rules but fitting a big fat turbo should. Most series have practice sessions to tune the car you don't just use the sim data and race you test and tweak and test again it's part of racing.

 

[Madertus]

But these tomahawk detunes is the reason for the broken pp system.

No, it isn't. The Performance Points system has been broken since its inception in Gran Turismo 5. It wasn't unusual to have two cars with similar PP scores do vastly different lap times on every type of tracks.

They should add new group categoris or limit events by bhp and not pp.

The PP system needs a complete overhaul, or Polyphony need to start designing events around actual regulations like engine aspiration, displacement, horsepower, car length, width, weight, allowed suspension adjustments etc.
A calculation-based performance system can't work the same way for all car categories. It was literally possible to bring the Tomahawk X down to sub-500 PP, so it logically should be slower than my stock A45 AMG at 514 PP, right? Right?

(...) And yes, these massive detune youtube farming vids was in my opinion the reason for Pd to change te pp system.

I mean, yeah?
Make no mistake, it's about Polyphony not making money from microtransactions. They really don't want us to earn Credits too fast.

 

[RacinLei]

@Madertus
Who said we have to get all cars in 2 months? This game is designed for 4-6 yeahrs. And farming money is no problem with the group it should be. Is it really necessary to be 10-30 or what ever seconds faster? Gt is still a sim like game.
Yes pd did the mistake of making it happen but i guess not intended.

They should remove the pp system and bind the events on gr. and bhp.

 

[Daniel55]

No, it isn't. The Performance Points system has been broken since its inception in Gran Turismo 5. It wasn't unusual to have two cars with similar PP scores do vastly different lap times on every type of tracks.

The PP system needs a complete overhaul, or Polyphony need to start designing events around actual regulations like engine aspiration, displacement, horsepower, car length, width, weight, allowed suspension adjustments etc.
A calculation-based performance system can't work the same way for all car categories. It was literally possible to bring the Tomahawk X down to sub-500 PP, so it logically should be slower than my stock A45 AMG at 514 PP, right? Right?

I mean, yeah?
Make no mistake, it's about Polyphony not making money from microtransactions. They really don't want us to earn Credits too fast.

I totally agree with you. If they can't make the PP system work as intended, then do a complete overhaul or change the way events regulations are set.

The PP system should take into account every change that affects the car performance, that's why it was implemented. Right now, PD is taking a step backwards by doing this. Players can now have cars with different performance, while the PP is the same, creating inequalities between the players.

It's better now changing my ride height shouldn't disqualify my car unless it's against the rules but fitting a big fat turbo should. Most series have practice sessions to tune the car you don't just use the sim data and race you test and tweak and test again it's part of racing.

Yes, theoretically that's how it should be. But the problem is that the game is not designed around the system (event regulations) that's used in real life.

Also, if the suspension modifications change the car specs, why shouldn't they update the car specs sheet? I agree that after every tune, you should take the car for a spin to see exactly how it performs, but things like top speed, acceleration times etc. should be noted in the specs sheet because they literally change the performance of the car. You should test the tune to see how the car handles, not to see the new top speed or acceleration times than can easily be calculated by the game

 

[Samus]

By this logic, let's just delete the whole PP system.

In a word, yes. The PP system, no matter how much they tweak it, can NEVER work properly across all cars and tracks. There are billions of variations to take into account and there will always be edge cases.

There is a reason you don't see any real world series using a similar system to set regulations. Mind you, of course there is still dominant cars in real world series that do use 1000s of regulations, that's just the nature of the beast. If it's not 100% spec racing, you'll never get totally equal cars. All tight regulations can do is their best to prevent too many wild variations.

 

[RacinLei]

@Daniel55

If you want equal races turn on bop.

 

[KAlex122]

Maybe Sophy could solve the problem with the overwhelming PP system. In other Words, let Sophy drive a lap withe the exact setup and score a PP.

But otherwise yes, the new sytem is easier and still bether than just saying drive this with over 1300 kg and und 400 Hp because with PP i could use 1300kg/400Hp or 1100 kg/350 Hp for example.

 

[Pizzapants]

The good thing is, these weirdo tomahawk detunes not gonna work anymore 👍 finaly they have to drive the cars they should be driven.

What harm was being done to you by a person driving a car on their own system in a single-player game? This is just needless hostility on your part. You have no right to dictate what other people find fun, particularly when it has zero impact on your game experience.

 

[RacinLei]

What harm was being done to you by a person driving a car on their own system in a single-player game? This is just needless hostility on your part. You have no right to dictate what other people find fun, particularly when it has zero impact on your game experience.

My flaming against tomahawk or massive detune at all are the ones who enter open lobby they named f1 only and think they are greate.
I dont care how someone is playing there games in singleplayer. But i care whats the result of this.
I stay on my opinion that the massive detune farming videos cause pd to react and the result is a broken pp system.

 

[Daniel55]

In a word, yes. The PP system, no matter how much they tweak it, can NEVER work properly across all cars and tracks. There are billions of variations to take into account and there will always be edge cases.

There is a reason you don't see any real world series using a similar system to set regulations. Mind you, of course there is still dominant cars in real world series that do use 1000s of regulations, that's just the nature of the beast. If it's not 100% spec racing, you'll never get totally equal cars. All tight regulations can do is their best to prevent too many wild variations.

I have no problem with the removal of the PP system. But at least I expect them to implement something better (similar to what's used in real life).

The problem with today's update is that it's modifying how the PP is calculated, and because the whole game revolves around this system, it's not good. It's closer to what's used in real life, but the whole game is stull using the PP rating for the events.

I really hope GT8 will have a different system

 

[Samus]

But at least I expect them to implement something better

Ah you see, that's where you've gone wrong. Always expect PD to do the worst thing possible to "fix" things. Just see the shambolic penalty system after 5 years of fiddling.

 

[Daniel55]

Ah you see, that's where you've gone wrong. Always expect PD to do the worst thing possible to "fix" things. Just see the shambolic penalty system after 5 years of fiddling.

Yeah, that's another problem... For a moment i thought they'll rework it for GT7, but it's the same broken system. With GT Sport, they updated the penalty system regularly, but with GT7 they don't seem to care too much.

 

[GT_Zaitess]

@Madertus
Who said we have to get all cars in 2 months? This game is designed for 4-6 yeahrs. And farming money is no problem with the group it should be. Is it really necessary to be 10-30 or what ever seconds faster? Gt is still a sim like game.
Yes pd did the mistake of making it happen but i guess not intended.

They should remove the pp system and bind the events on gr. and bhp.

4-6 years, doing the same race over and over ? Are you mad ?

All GT we had so fare, got us to get most of the cars within 2 months.

You shouldn't have to play a game like it's a job. It's a game ffs

Take Project car 1 and 2. Great game, all cars available from start.

Take FM4, really easy to get money and guess what ? they made you pay for the DLC... I bought all of them.

Paying microtransaction for a ridicule amount of credit in game ? No way dude.

Seriously guys, you need to stop with these stupid claims you have.

They are stupid ! a casual gamer should be allowed to get an Mclaren F1 without having to spend months grinding the same race over again.

What's wrong with you ? have you ever played any other game than GT?

 

[Bullwinkle]

I'll argue that it was mostly to get those of us who used these exploits to grind. PD/Sony has to promote their MTX, as evidenced by spending nearly 500,000 Cr. for a time-gated 5-star Wheel of Despair, which has only a 21% chance of getting something worth more than what you paid for the the ticket (13% chance of getting 500,000 Cr., 1% chance of getting 1,000,000 Cr., and 7% chance of getting a car worth at least 500,000 Cr.) and a 15% chance of getting something that's priceless (10% chance of getting a special tuning part and 5% chance of getting an engine).

Maybe Sophy could solve the problem with the overwhelming PP system. In other Words, let Sophy drive a lap withe the exact setup and score a PP.

But otherwise yes, the new sytem is easier and still bether than just saying drive this with over 1300 kg and und 400 Hp because with PP i could use 1300kg/400Hp or 1100 kg/350 Hp for example.

I think both these comments represent the whole of PD’s stupidness. The PP system was only a real problem with the Tomahawk glitch on the Tokyo grind and they desperately wanted to kill that. Realizing the PP system led to explains they started needing it.

Then the online tuning races started showing crazy suspension exploits, so they turned tuning races to HP and weight restrictions instead. Problem solved, right?

But the suspension exploits still led to people grinding too easily to make some cash to buy the stupidly priced cars. So now they’ve killed all the suspension/lsd setting to limit those exploits. Their intention seems pretty clear here. Fixing the PP system doesn’t seem to be their goal, just fixing the mtx market.

As for the current state of tuning races, I like the HP/weight restrictions because they resemble actual racing a little more. If you want absolutely even races turn on BoP. If not, set some base requirements and then let people fiddle with settings to fit their driving style. The location of the weight shouldn’t matter in a competition as long as everyone has the same limitations, but it may fit how you drive better. Tuning should be there to fit your driving style, not give you some kind of unfair advantage. You want to go without any aero? Great, go fast. But you won’t be able to turn. These sorts of trade offs are what tuning is for.

The PP system was (is) horrible for “balancing” anything because it is built around edge cases, which will ALWAYS lead to exploits. PD isn’t worried about balance, just the exploits, which are indicative of their own lazy game design.

Rant over.

 

[RacinLei]

@GT_Zaitess

Im not doing the same race over and over again. Im moste likely in open lobbys.

I never used microtranaktion but you pay for all dlcs in fm4???

And i dont need month for a car i want. I dont need all cars in the game. I have all gr.3 and gr.4 cars and a handfull i use constant.

I miss the old days gt part 1-4. buy it, play it if we hit a limit we had two option getting better or let it.
These days are weird. If someone cant do go online and jell so long until it get changed and easyer…..

 

[Error1355]

I think this is a better way of doing the PP system, but I am really going to miss the ability to grind the higher payout races for credits...

 

[Kev1277]

From the patch notes:
4. Car Settings
　- Changed the calculation of the Performance Points (PP) in ‘Car Settings’ so that measurements are taken with stock Differential Gear (LSD) and Suspension settings.

I had some Porsches for Le Mans 30 Minutes on 700 PP. This change has increased the PP rating for many Porsches.
Now back to 700 they've slowed down in acceleration and speed, that sucks.

 

[Kev1277]

I think the title "Tuning system is now ruined" is very misleading. The tuning system itself has not changed this update as far as I know - i.e. the performance impact of any tune is still the same.

The PP system may, in your opinion, be 'ruined' but even then that's a stretch.

No it has changed for the worse on some cars. Unfortunately, Porsche is definitely affected by this.