Presidential Debate Discussion

[YSSMAN]

Or do you mean that you are surpised that McCain said that, knowing Republicans tend to lean more towards free market (although I am doubting the actual party members at this point)?

Right there is the key. That would be something a Democrat would normally suggest (as a matter of fact, I think Speaker Pelosi or whatshisbucket from Chicago [not Obama] did). That was why I found it so surprising that McCain would say it, but its fairly obvious that he needs to bring back voters on the economy. Problem is, I'm not sure if there is really anyone on either side of the aisle that are really willing to go for that just yet.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

The debates were boring, both candidates blew a lot of hot air. I'm seriously questioning our political system when these are the best two we could come up with.

To me it seemed like Obama and McCain were trying to make it a replay of the first debate.

 

[Solid Fro]

Care to elaborate?

"Well, you know, Sen. McCain, in the last debate and today, again, suggested that I don't understand. It's true. There are some things I don't understand."

You sure don't, Barack, you sure don't.

Obama's Kerry argument about Iraq is extremely tired.

 

[YSSMAN]

It would be fair to say that there are a good number of things that McCain doesn't understand, particularly one that is very important right now:

I’m going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues. I still need to be educated.

November 2005

The issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should

December 2007

 

[Solid Fro]

Oh, I feel the same way.

I'm glad I'm not running for president, because I'd be taken out of context as well.

 

[FoolKiller]

I think all political debates shoudl use this suggstion.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,434761,00.html

Only when they are caught lying it has a very loud buzzer go off behind them, or a mechanical boxing glove punch them in the crotch. That should keep them honest.

 

[Solid Fro]

Why didn't McCain do this in the first two debates?



FACE!!! AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!

 

[YSSMAN]

It was perhaps his best moment of the night, and the opening line will likely go down as one of the better ones in debate history. That being said, when you're voting with the President 90% of the time, it becomes pretty difficult to tell the two apart.

I think McCain did a good job last night at looking tough and following up his "kick his you-know-what" remark earlier in the week. The problem is, despite coming off in a stronger sense, it made him look like he was on the attack, and consequently it backfired by night's end.

With the GOP pulling ads out of Wisconsin today, its beginning to paint a much darker image of whats left in the campaign. With little more than two weeks to go, I'm interested to see what McCain will do now that he only has the discussions of spending (how he will "balance the budget" I do not understand, we're spending $10BN in Iraq a month) and taxes (go for the Plumber!). Hes pretty much been shut-out on everything else.

 

[Solid Fro]

That being said, when you're voting with the President 90% of the time, it becomes pretty difficult to tell the two apart.

When did that become a bad thing? I can tell you that normal folk believe it is the opposite... which is surprising to me, since those on the Left and in the Mainstream Media have already announced their verdict for the Bush administration.

 

[YSSMAN]

Wait, who's normal? Fewer than 25% of the American public approve of Bush's job performance, its pretty fair to say that across the board people aren't happy with the President and the decisions he has made in the past eight years. Its no wonder that McCain's strange and otherwise sudden pro-Bush stance post-2006 isn't catching on with "regular people" across the country...

 

[Omnis]

It would be fair to say that there are a good number of things that McCain doesn't understand, particularly one that is very important right now:


November 2005


December 2007

I think the only Republican nominee who knew anything about economics was Ron Paul. And the Democrats? Forget about it.

 

[Solid Fro]

Wait, who's normal? Fewer than 25% of the American public approve of Bush's job performance, its pretty fair to say that across the board people aren't happy with the President and the decisions he has made in the past eight years. Its no wonder that McCain's strange and otherwise sudden pro-Bush stance post-2006 isn't catching on with "regular people" across the country...

The people who express their opinions to me must be part of that 25%.

 

[FoolKiller]

There is a difference between disapproving of job performance and disagreeing with policies and bills.

Just because a guy has an idea you agree with does not necessarily mean that you like how he made it happen, or failed to make it happen.

I mean, affordable housing for everyone is a good idea, but government regulations and policies to make it happen is absolutely horrible.

 

[Omnis]

There is a difference between disapproving of job performance and disagreeing with policies and bills.

Just because a guy has an idea you agree with does not necessarily mean that you like how he made it happen, or failed to make it happen.

I mean, affordable housing for everyone is a good idea, but government regulations and policies to make it happen is absolutely horrible.

Yeah, I covered that as part of my public speaking class's informative speech project. One of politics' biggest problems is stances or names taken after a goal or result. The free-market capitalist and the statist socialist both support "Universal Healthcare" or "Affordable Housing", but for them to assume a "pro-affordable housing" stance really tells us nothing about them. The weaker the plan or argument, the more likely the proponent will frame it after the result instead of laying out the course of action.

 

[YSSMAN]

I think the only Republican nominee who knew anything about economics was Ron Paul. And the Democrats? Forget about it.

Heh, remember its McCain that wants to buy your house and sell it back to you...

Thought of EPIC proportions:

Obama talks a lot about having Republicans and Democrats in his cabinet, how does Ron Paul as Treasury Secretary sound? Awesome.

 

[FoolKiller]

Obama talks a lot about having Republicans and Democrats in his cabinet, how does Ron Paul as Treasury Secretary sound? Awesome.

Oh yeah, I can see that now:

Obama: I want my first economic initiative to be....
Paul: That's a dumb idea, and contrary to the founding principles of the country to begin with.
Obama: But I didn't say it yet.
Paul: You never do.
Obama: What? I talk a lot.
Paul: But you never really say anything.
Obama: Fine, whatever. So then how about for the mortgage crisis we....
Paul: We shouldn't do anything.
Obama: Fine, what are your suggestions then?
Paul: Reduce spending, reduce taxes, get rid of the Fed, and start lowering our national debt.
Obama: ???
Paul: Do you know anything about the economy?
Obama: Yes and I am trying to have my administration help it by punishing the rich and successful.
Paul: You're doing it wrong.

 

[Tornado]

 

[Omnis]

Oh yeah, I can see that now:

Obama: I want my first economic initiative to be....
Paul: That's a dumb idea, and contrary to the founding principles of the country to begin with.
Obama: But I didn't say it yet.
Paul: You never do.
Obama: What? I talk a lot.
Paul: But you never really say anything.
Obama: Fine, whatever. So then how about for the mortgage crisis we....
Paul: We shouldn't do anything.
Obama: Fine, what are your suggestions then?
Paul: Reduce spending, reduce taxes, get rid of the Fed, and start lowering our national debt.
Obama: ???
Paul: Do you know anything about the economy?
Obama: Yes and I am trying to have my administration help it by punishing the rich and successful.
Paul: You're doing it wrong.

Don't kid yourself, YSSMAN. Obama's cabinet being a mix of Ds and Rs only would serve as another example of how similar the parties have become.

 

[Keef]

I think the country as a whole has socialized considerably. As technology makes everything easier, everyone wants everything easier easier, and therefore the government does political magic and makes things *poof* appear from nowhere. Maybe we're all about to learn that socialism vs. capitalism and/or democracy vs. communism is a cycle? Maybe one leads to the other over and over and over again. Or maybe I thought too hard.

 

[YSSMAN]

Don't kid yourself, YSSMAN. Obama's cabinet being a mix of Ds and Rs only would serve as another example of how similar the parties have become.

It was a joke, but yes, I understand your point. GQ had a funny write up about Ron Paul as McCain's Treasury Secretary, which made me think of that. Labeling that as the big, crazy "eff you" moment to politics. I can't remember what the crazy choice for Obama was... Probably whatshisbucket that funds MoveOn.org...

Which is something worth discussing as well:

Do possible choices for a Presidential Cabinet effect your vote at all?

 

[Kent]

Cabinet choices don't affect my vote at all.
That said, did anyone catch the Howard Stern street interviews?
It was a sad moment for many groups...
Support for Obama came from people who agreed with Obama's stance on staying in Iraq, selecting Palin as VP, and holding an anti-abortion stance. If your head hasn't been up your butt for the last year you might understand why those people were showing how sad the Obama supporters can be.

 

[Omnis]

5 bucks says Lieberman will be McCain's SecState. /shudder.

 

[Solid Fro]

Cabinet choices don't affect my vote at all.
That said, did anyone catch the Howard Stern street interviews?
It was a sad moment for many groups...
Support for Obama came from people who agreed with Obama's stance on staying in Iraq, selecting Palin as VP, and holding an anti-abortion stance. If your head hasn't been up your butt for the last year you might understand why those people were showing how sad the Obama supporters can be.

I wonder if these Obama supporters are just stupid or is the information they are receiving is incorrect?

 

[Omnis]

I wonder if these Obama supporters are just stupid or is the information they are receiving is incorrect?

Stay Home '08.

 

[sn00pie]

That is just shocking. The third woman even critices McCain for being, and I quote, uneducated.

 

[Omnis]

Open debate will be on C-Span tonight. Here's the link: http://www.freeandequal.org/events.php?id=11

 

[FoolKiller]

Open debate will be on C-Span tonight. Here's the link: http://www.freeandequal.org/events.php?id=11

Wait, Bob Barr gets an open debate invite and declines? I hope his scheduling conflict is important.

 

[Omnis]

Wait, Bob Barr gets an open debate invite and declines? I hope his scheduling conflict is important.

Yeah, Barr has seriously been ducking everything. I really want to see him debate with Baldwin so that they can differentiate themselves, but I think Barr keeps ducking these opportunities because he thinks he's already "on top" (at least when it comes to 3rd parties). If he continues to not make any kind of effort to join the discussion, he might just lose my vote.

 

[YSSMAN]

Thats unfortunate, I'd love to see more with him. I've heard him on NPR a few times, and I know hes been on the cable news shows a couple of times earlier this fall. The RCP averages for them aren't looking pretty though, which is a major disappointment. I had figured they stood a good shot of taking 10% of the vote this year between them.

 

[Keef]

Yeah, Barr has seriously been ducking everything. I really want to see him debate with Baldwin so that they can differentiate themselves, but I think Barr keeps ducking these opportunities because he thinks he's already "on top" (at least when it comes to 3rd parties). If he continues to not make any kind of effort to join the discussion, he might just lose my vote.

Bob was in the studio with Eddie Fingers and Tracy Jones on 700 recently. Listen to it, it starts at 15:00. I mean, it seems to me like many of these fair news guys, including the big network people, all believe in libertarian policies. And yet not many people seem to be following these smart guys. What's the deal?