Presidential Election: 2012

  • Thread starter Omnis
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I was speaking generally, if you misinterpreted. Fixed;

It is true that ignorant people can vote. They should make their vote count and not use it flippantly nor blindly.

One should make ones vote count.

Curse English and its ambiguity.

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Any updates on the election front, United Statesmen?
 
Honestly I have not detailedly looked into each canidate, but I based upon what I did read mitt romney ( sorry I cant spell) or ron paul would be good in office
Since you've narrowed it down and haven't had time to look into it further, I'll offer some contrasts between the two candidates you're choosing between.

Mitt Romney has openly supported military action against Iran, just like most of the Republican party and Democratic party. He has a history of changing his policy on various topics when he finds it to be unpopular amongst his likely voters - a bad habit of his that has been very well publicized since before the 2008 election when he ran for President. He thinks the government should regulate the traditionally religious practice of marriage, and that it should be between a man and a woman. That might sound reasonable to you, but I'll tell you Dr. Paul's view on that here shortly.

Dr. Ron Paul does not support military action against Iran, his view being that it's just another undeclared, never-ending, and unwinnable war as we are still carrying out in Afghanistan and Iraq. Besides these wars being unconstitutional, he thinks they will cost too much money. As for his voting record, he has been in and out of Congress for about 30 years and has always voted against illegitimate wars, voted against government spending increases, voted to lower taxes at every opportunity, and voted against allowing the Federal government to have more power than what is allowed by the Constitution. His view on marriage? He understands that the Constitution does not give the government the authority to regulate marriage, and therefore he would work to get the government out of the practice, and return it to the people at large to decide where, how, and who they want to marry. If untraditional organizations popped up that performed gay marriages, then so be it, gay people can get married if they want. Ron Paul doesn't think it's any of the government's business who is married or not.

Basically what I'm saying is that Mitt Romney supports basically the same ideas that most Republicans and Democrats already support, the main one being more government spending on illegitimate wars. Dr. Paul is the only real pro-liberty, economically sensible Presidential candidate this country has seen for decades. I support him, but I support him because I support the ideas of personal freedom, a government with limited powers to control my life, and responsible financial habits. A lot of people criticize the guy for not being as presentable as the others, and not being the smoothest public speaker, but I think he's just got too much knowledge trying to exit his mouth at one time. :lol:

That's a pretty basic jist of it. There are a lot of issues, but Ron Paul's stance on the issues are always summed up by following the Constitution. He belongs to a very interesting school of economic theory called Austrian economics, which is worth a lookup at the Ludwig von Mises Institute. The CATO Institute is another organization promoting personal and economic freedom. Those two organizations have areas on their website that suggest a lot of good books on the subject that cover everything from the basics of the economy and liberty to complex economic stuff that I don't have time to sit and read. Probably the best place to go for news about Ron Paul is a fan site called Daily Paul which has a fan forum, and updates the news blog very often with interesting articles and videos of Dr. Paul's speeches from Congress or rallies or TV shows or wherever he might be.

I don't think Mitt Romney has much of a fan presence online, or Institutions that he is a member of and contributes to as Paul does with Mises and CATO. Mitt doesn't get many donations from individual supporters like you and I, either - he gets the majority of his campaign money from banks that benefited from the bailouts, like Goldman Sachs, whom he has close business ties to. Ron Paul doesn't have business ties - he gets most of his money, and a fair amount at that, from individual donors. The New York Times has a thing that shows how much money candidates have raised, where they got it from, and in what denominations. About 56% of Paul's money is raised through donations of $200 or less, while 60% of Romney's money is raised in donations of $2,500. Do you have $2,500 laying around to donate to a candidate? I sure don't. But Romney's millionaire friends at Goldman Sachs do. So far I've only been able to donate $20.12 to Ron Paul, which is a cute option on their donation website.
 
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Keef
Since you've narrowed it down and haven't had time to look into it further, I'll offer some contrasts between the two candidates you're choosing between.

Mitt Romney has openly supported military action against Iran, just like most of the Republican party and Democratic party. He has a history of changing his policy on various topics when he finds it to be unpopular amongst his likely voters - a bad habit of his that has been very well publicized since before the 2008 election when he ran for President. He thinks the government should regulate the traditionally religious practice of marriage, and that it should be between a man and a woman. That might sound reasonable to you, but I'll tell you Dr. Paul's view on that here shortly.

Dr. Ron Paul does not support military action against Iran, his view being that it's just another undeclared, never-ending, and unwinnable war as we are still carrying out in Afghanistan and Iraq. Besides these wars being unconstitutional, he thinks they will cost too much money. As for his voting record, he has been in and out of Congress for about 30 years and has always voted against illegitimate wars, voted against government spending increases, voted to lower taxes at every opportunity, and voted against allowing the Federal government to have more power than what is allowed by the Constitution. His view on marriage? He understands that the Constitution does not give the government the authority to regulate marriage, and therefore he would work to get the government out of the practice, and return it to the people at large to decide where, how, and who they want to marry. If untraditional organizations popped up that performed gay marriages, then so be it, gay people can get married if they want. Ron Paul doesn't think it's any of the government's business who is married or not.

Basically what I'm saying is that Mitt Romney supports basically the same ideas that most Republicans and Democrats already support, the main one being more government spending on illegitimate wars. Dr. Paul is the only real pro-liberty, economically sensible Presidential candidate this country has seen for decades. I support him, but I support him because I support the ideas of personal freedom, a government with limited powers to control my life, and responsible financial habits..

Very interesting. I will be sure to research them more, but this gives me a good basis
 
Basically, when you criticized the democrats for wanting to increase government spending, make sure you look at what Romney will do. He won't be any different, he's very similar to Obama, and he'll probably end up starting another war (in Iran). Paul is the only candidate who is any different than the others, Obama, Romney, Santorum, and Gingrich are just the same old politicians. The biggest benefit to having Paul as a president in my opinion would be him holding the presidential veto, and being the Commander In Chief of the US Military. Paul gets heat for his laissez-faire capitalistic views, and I personally agree with most if not all of his Libertarian principles, he won't be able to put them all in to law. The best thing about a President Ron Paul, would be the end of the wars in Iraq, and Afghanistan, and the huge military-industrial complex. Also, things like SOPA and ACTA (and the PATRIOT act) would be non issues, as they'd never get past Ron Paul in the oval office.
 
Noob616
Basically, when you criticized the democrats for wanting to increase government spending, make sure you look at what Romney will do. He won't be any different, he's very similar to Obama, and he'll probably end up starting another war (in Iran). Paul is the only candidate who is any different than the others, Obama, Romney, Santorum, and Gingrich are just the same old politicians. The biggest benefit to having Paul as a president in my opinion would be him holding the presidential veto, and being the Commander In Chief of the US Military. Paul gets heat for his laissez-faire capitalistic views, and I personally agree with most if not all of his Libertarian principles, he won't be able to put them all in to law. The best thing about a President Ron Paul, would be the end of the wars in Iraq, and Afghanistan, and the huge military-industrial complex. Also, things like SOPA and ACTA (and the PATRIOT act) would be non issues, as they'd never get past Ron Paul in the oval office.

I will make sure to research the canidates thoughly
 
mamrhein, you can even find humour in the election.

Excuse the watermark.
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Repost, but for comparative purposes.
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Here's an interesting tidbit I just read. Vote fraud confirmed in Nevada and a video where a reporter reads the real vote count live on tv and effectively catches his own station in the act of broadcasting manufactured and fraudulent election results as fact.

About 4:10
 
Weather a voter is ignorant or not he/ she has the right.to.vote

Just because you can, doesn't mean you'll be helping anything. If someone as ignorant as that votes, they hurt democracy.

It seems I'm in luck though. Judging by your apparent level of literacy it seems that you won't legally be able to vote for at least another decade.
 
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Just because you can, doesn't mean you'll be helping anything. If someone as ignorant as that votes, they hurt democracy.
The man came in here and stated that he hasn't looked into the matter yet. Some people are too busy to absorb themselves into the issues like I do, but I was kind enough to provide him a few good links to very respectable sources of scholarly information on subjects relevant to the issues that he can look at whenever he has the time. Then you come in here and suggest he shouldn't vote. Now, I know a moron when I see one, and I didn't assume he was because he was not yet privy to the type of information that gets argued in this thread. I reserve the "moron" label for people who have been exposed to irrefutable information yet choose to argue against it.
 
Keef
The man came in here and stated that he hasn't looked into the matter yet. Some people are too busy to absorb themselves into the issues like I do, but I was kind enough to provide him a few good links to very respectable sources of scholarly information on subjects relevant to the issues that he can look at whenever he has the time. Then you come in here and suggest he shouldn't vote. Now, I know a moron when I see one, and I didn't assume he was because he was not yet privy to the type of information that gets argued in this thread. I reserve the "moron" label for people who have been exposed to irrefutable information yet choose to argue against it.

Fair enough. I'll keep an open mind. His first statement irked me.
 
The only reason I will be voting republicans, is the democrats want more government spending. Puting the Us more in debt. The debt keeps rising and eventually the us will be in the same boat as Greece. Now as I am a man of logic if you want to present facts that could persuade me to vote for Obama go ahead.

You do realize there are more options than Obama or GOPs choice? I mean as a fellow American I'd hope that the people around me are much more aware. Since you claim your "a man of logic" that simple point shouldn't blow over your head.

Also as a man of logic, voting party lines is logical how? See it's ironic cause this is the mistake that tea party voters made when they got the people they wanted into office, and guess what happened the people they elected didn't come through on what they promised. Florida is one place too look at it.
Logically I'd think a person would vote for someone who is actually going to benefit them, despite what the label may say.

Here's an interesting tidbit I just read. Vote fraud confirmed in Nevada and a video where a reporter reads the real vote count live on tv and effectively catches his own station in the act of broadcasting manufactured and fraudulent election results as fact.

About 4:10


Is that why CNN are trying so hard to get their reportes to watch in on the counts? At least Wolf Blitzer is making his people do it.
 
Zenith013
Just because you can, doesn't mean you'll be helping anything. If someone as ignorant as that votes, they hurt democracy.

It seems I'm in luck though. Judging by your apparent level of literacy it seems that you won't legally be able to vote for at least another decade.

Excuse my bad grammer I acually will.
 
Found this today

Might interest those that haven't been paying attention to the election process.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/07/10341705-group-wants-investigation-of-obama-romney-super-pacs

I've been screaming for this since I saw the lists of donators. When the same donors are funding both sides, it should be beyond obvious to anyone that they are working for the same people and we are being manipulated and herded into the "two-party" voting booths. Robamaomney is the candidate that they want. They don't care which mask the puppet wears, just as long as he dances when they pull his strings. There is only one candidate that they do not want and are trying desperately to avoid, and even changing election results to try to stop him.
 
I have to take back what I said about Santorum not being a factor. As terrible a candidate he might be, he is a factor.

He's basically going to sweep the Midwest and Great Plains. He's leading every county in Missouri that has voted so far. He's also leading in Colorado. He's also leading in Minnesota.

What my fellow Americans are thinking I have no idea.

Foolkiller, how are you feeling about Kentucky? That there is one of the few states I have any faith in.
 
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I've been screaming for this since I saw the lists of donators. When the same donors are funding both sides, it should be beyond obvious to anyone that they are working for the same people and we are being manipulated and herded into the "two-party" voting booths. Robamaomney is the candidate that they want. They don't care which mask the puppet wears, just as long as he dances when they pull his strings. There is only one candidate that they do not want and are trying desperately to avoid, and even changing election results to try to stop him.

I've been screaming for it before I saw the list because most of us on this thread could have guessed the damn list. I agree with you, but am highly pissed about the power they have that will belittle the average voter anyways. Then you have new people coming in here chanting how they'll vote party lines when the party and canidate (bar independents and Paul) are already bought well before election night. Too bad America wants to be sheeple but in the great words of Bill Hicks I'll just leave it at this

Go back to bed, America. Your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed, America. Your government is in control again. Here. Here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up. Go back to bed, America. Here is American Gladiators. Here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their :censored:ing skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom. Here you go, America! You are free to do as we tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!- Bill Hicks

Add the big companies pull the strings to that as well. Isn't democracy grand!:dunce:
 
Is voter fraud/counting fraud, or whatever you may call it, ever looked into or investigated after the fact? Watching one person in a local high school count votes (On CNN) didn't exactly satisfy me in terms of how official the voter results really were.
 
I've been screaming for it before I saw the list because most of us on this thread could have guessed the damn list. I agree with you, but am highly pissed about the power they have that will belittle the average voter anyways. Then you have new people coming in here chanting how they'll vote party lines when the party and canidate (bar independents and Paul) are already bought well before election night. Too bad America wants to be sheeple but in the great words of Bill Hicks I'll just leave it at this

Add the big companies pull the strings to that as well. Isn't democracy grand!:dunce:

America is not a democracy. It's a limited republic, and it's not controlled by corporations, it's controlled by voters and the republic's charter.
 
Is voter fraud/counting fraud, or whatever you may call it, ever looked into or investigated after the fact? Watching one person in a local high school count votes (On CNN) didn't exactly satisfy me in terms of how official the voter results really were.

Exactly, or the old guy in front of the reporter counting them. I mean I'd think with all the technology we have we could at least have a simple solution to primaries and caucuses. However, I guess that's too much to ask though in the name of democracy.

America is not a democracy. It's a limited republic, and it's not controlled by corporations, it's controlled by voters and the republic's charter.

Yes I know this, but it is pushed on to the public as a democratic republic. You know the whole we have a Representative Democracy, that is what I'm talking about.
 
Yes I know this, but it is pushed on to the public as a democratic republic.

Well I'm with you on the problem of voter stupidity, I just never blame the corporations for this stuff. Corporations are going to do what corporations do - they can be counted on for that. They're like a dog chasing a cars, they wouldn't know what to do with one if they caught it.
 
Exactly, or the old guy in front of the reporter counting them. I mean I'd think with all the technology we have we could at least have a simple solution to primaries and caucuses. However, I guess that's too much to ask though in the name of democracy.

Just a few people from a few major counties could in fact change the race, and, ultimately, our entire country. A scary thought.
 
Well I'm with you on the problem of voter stupidity, I just never blame the corporations for this stuff. Corporations are going to do what corporations do - they can be counted on for that. They're like a dog chasing a cars, they wouldn't know what to do with one if they caught it.

I not fully out at the throat of companies, I'm blaiming those in control of them cause at the end of the day to much policy is made around them first and regular people second. Instead it should be everyone together obviously. Either way I have my mind made up I'm doing a write in this year. Also they use the guise of that company when they support a candidate I would say the groups that these big time money makers are a part of are the root of the problem.

Just a few people from a few major counties could in fact change the race, and, ultimately, our entire country. A scary thought.

Exactly
 
I mean I'd think with all the technology we have we could at least have a simple solution to...caucuses.
We use electronic voting in Ohio's primary. It's run by the State. Caucuses are run by the political party within whatever state, and apparently they know not of reliable technology.
 
We use electronic voting in Ohio's primary. It's run by the State. Caucuses are run by the political party within whatever state, and apparently they know not of reliable technology.

Didn't know that, thanks Keef. Well I guess some states just love the old days of little house on the prairie.
 
The only reason I will be voting republicans, is the democrats want more government spending. Puting the Us more in debt. The debt keeps rising and eventually the us will be in the same boat as Greece. Now as I am a man of logic if you want to present facts that could persuade me to vote for Obama go ahead.
Keep in mind that Bush spent more too. Republicans in general love to spend just as much as Democrats, only on different things. Well, I guess they both spend it on wars. But my experience in my life is that they both wish to grow government and spending. I believe that Ron Paul is an exception, but I do not believe he will take the nomination.

In the event that Ron Paul is not the nominee I will be looking at the third parties because I don't see the big difference between the two parties.

See it's ironic cause this is the mistake that tea party voters made when they got the people they wanted into office, and guess what happened the people they elected didn't come through on what they promised.
Kentucky got what they wanted. Well, I did. I haven't heard a single person who voted for him say they are disappointed

Foolkiller, how are you feeling about Kentucky? That there is one of the few states I have any faith in.
We are in the Bible Belt. Keep that in mind. Rand Paul was easily the better choice in the primary over Trey Grayson. And Paul won the general election because Kentucky traditionally goes Republican on national elections.

I honestly think that in southern and western Kentucky Santorum will carry a lot of the vote unless enough people who are happy with Rand Paul give his father a blanket confidence vote. The other thing that could easily happen is that people will vote for whoever they think the nominee will be because we like to say we won. One thing I can say is that a lot of Kentucky Republicans I know think we should already be going into Iran.

In short, don't hold out hope. This is the same state that was asking me who Ron Paul was in 2007-2008 and then when I mentioned Bob Barr in the general election they gave me blank stares. They didn't know there were more than two choices. When I explained that they asked me why I would "waste" my vote. When I asked the how voting for the guy I most agree with was a waste they said it was because I knew he wouldn't win. They would rather vote to get a guy they don't like in office, and stop a guy they like less, than vote their conscience. And they say anything else is wasting your vote.

Also, Lexington's ABC station had their morning news anchor, Kristi Runyon (who I went to college with), leave and the replacement they hired for her sports Sarah Palin glasses and hair, and is from Fargo so has a similar accent.

She isn't wearing the glasses in her profile picture.
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Is voter fraud/counting fraud, or whatever you may call it, ever looked into or investigated after the fact? Watching one person in a local high school count votes (On CNN) didn't exactly satisfy me in terms of how official the voter results really were.
Yes. Remember Florida in 2000? Or Iowa this year? Close votes are recalled and any reports of vote fraud is investigated.

Also, in that video, you see the guy next to him give a thumbs up after each tally. The guy picked it up from a man next to him, read it off, and then showed it to a group behind him. That group is compiled of representatives from each campaign. Volunteers from each campaign are allowed to witness the vote counts in an open caucus or private vote.
 
...except that the final tabulation, in Iowa at least, was done at the Republican headquarters with no oversight.
 
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