Prison Rape

[FoolKiller]

it upsets me deeply that my tax revenues go to pay for these ill-behaved layabouts.

This made me think of the occasional story I hear on the news where guys will break the law in order to be put back in jail because they are given meals and a place to sleep.

It definitely makes me think that prison rape is not a big issue, because you have to be extremely desparate in order to take that and think that life is better than if you had to keep a full-time job.

I can only imagine that being extremely traumatic and if you will face that trauma for food and shelter then you are either messed up or extremely lazy.

 

[Danoff]

I don't believe that a criminal should be able to cry foul when mistreated in prison, because they have (circumventing the issue of miscarriage of justice) relinquished their eligibility for societal protection.

Their freedom is taken away, yes. But they're not sentenced to anal violation, which would be an anal violation of the constitution which protects all people (even those who have foregone their right to freedom or even life) from "cruel and unusual punishment". Shooting your wife's lover in a jealous rage does not (or should not) condemn you to years of rape and beatings. That's not what prison is supposed to be about.

I agree with you that they have it too easy. Cable television, basketball, weightrooms etc. make life easy on criminals. Life is easier still if they can assualt other criminals with no fear of legal consequences or interference. My complaint is that criminals still have too much freedom, especially over each other.

 

[sn00pie]

its not rape, they enjoy it secretly.

How do you know this? Or more specific: why do you think this?

 

[Gil]

Danoff,
I've worked in Max Security. I've seen a ****-load of guys come into the infirmary because they've taken a beating for reneging on a bet, or snitching somebody out.
I've had them in solitary for trying to do harm to themselves.
I've never seen anyone in the infirmary for treatment for injuries that occured during a forcible rape.
It is true that younger guys are often "punked" and become the "property" of older, hard-case inmates. They do their time this way because of the protection they are afforded by being the hard-case's punk.

I don't feel like inmates should have all that many rights.
If you segregate them for safety, and to keep them from passing on thier skills, you get into the "cruel and unusual" punishment of lack of socialization.
Plus, if you only let one person at a time out for exercise, each inmate in a 5000 person prision would get outside about once every 210 days.
Which thing is more cruel and unusual, risking altercations letting large numbers on the yard at once, or letting each person out once every 7 months?

 

[Ghost C]

The chances of getting ass buggered in open prison jails are next to none.

You speak as if you know this, but I have to assume you've never been to jail because it's totally wrong.

Yes, it's a problem, I've witnessed it firsthand, and I've seen guards turn the other cheek to it. Here's a question for all the people who think it's morally acceptable to allow rape to happen in jails - Do you think we should allow murder, assault, etc to go unpunished in prison as well? A person who murders someone in prison is tried for murder - A person who rapes someone else in prison should be tried for rape.

You're alot more likely to get raped than you are to get shivved for that reason alone.

 

[Famine]

I've witnessed it firsthand

and I've seen guards turn the other cheek

Must... resist... urge... for... double... entendre...

 

[Submerged]

Oh, how i laughed at Famine's answer to Ghost C's comments!

Albeit in a drunken state.

But still, it was funny!

 

[Snortin Norton]

Depends. If you are found to have been convicted of child molesting, you might as well grab your ankles and stock up on the KY.

"They" put pedophiles in different wings for that exact reason.

 

[Danoff]

Danoff,
I've worked in Max Security. I've seen a ****-load of guys come into the infirmary because they've taken a beating for reneging on a bet, or snitching somebody out.
I've had them in solitary for trying to do harm to themselves.
I've never seen anyone in the infirmary for treatment for injuries that occured during a forcible rape.

Good to know. I assume it isn't as much of an issue as people say. But generally if people are being assaulted in any way in prison it's a problem.

It is true that younger guys are often "punked" and become the "property" of older, hard-case inmates. They do their time this way because of the protection they are afforded by being the hard-case's punk.

If it's for protection, then the ones they're trying to get protection from are the problem.

I don't feel like inmates should have all that many rights.
If you segregate them for safety, and to keep them from passing on thier skills, you get into the "cruel and unusual" punishment of lack of socialization.
Plus, if you only let one person at a time out for exercise, each inmate in a 5000 person prision would get outside about once every 210 days.
Which thing is more cruel and unusual, risking altercations letting large numbers on the yard at once, or letting each person out once every 7 months?

I think "lack of socialization" is a much less cruel and unusual punishment than rape or beatings (or getting stabbed with a pencil). Optional socialization would be interesting. As would optional exercise.

It would be interesting if we gave prisoners their own cell, allowed them to take their meals in the cell, and allowed them to choose whether to exercise or which one of the exercise periods to use. That way, if they were concerned for their safety they could protect themselves by staying in their cell.

I don't think prison violence is an unsolvable problem. Prisoners are in a highly controlled environment, it should be possible to (largely) prevent them from hurting each other. I just think that nobody cares because they don't expect to be in prison. Assault is assult, even if it's against a prisoner.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Stats must be impossible to collect.

Just think, how many guys would willingly admit to anal sex in prison?

 

[Ghost C]

As a former guest of two states, I can say I saw (and by saw, I mean I heard about it after the fact from the guards) it more times than I care to remember.

Must... resist... urge... for... double... entendre...

Heh, I didn't think about the pun there. Shutup

 

[Snortin Norton]

As a former guest of two states, I can say I saw (and by saw, I mean I heard about it after the fact from the guards) it more times than I care to remember.

Most likely to keep you from comming back, aye?

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Prison is synonymous with gay rape these days. We've all heard of the "federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison", and jokes about dropping the soap. It's gotten so that people assume that everyone in prison was either raped or raped someone else.

I have two questions to this.

1) Is it true? Is rape really that common in prison? If so, why is it tolerated. Why do we continue to put prisoners together in a cell if this occurs so often.

Probably not, but I haven't looked up the statistics on the subject (which is what happens when your eyes are glued to a currency pair).

2) If it is true, is this acceptable? Should the punishment for doing drugs, or selling drugs to willing buyers really be anal rape? Should the punishment for paying a willing prostitute be anal rape? Is it a proper punishment for a theif to be raped by his cell mate? Doesn't this fall under cruel/unusual punishment?

Why is this topic not addressed more carefully. People get up in arms about the food quality in prison, but the rape problem? Eh no biggie. Either it isn't a constitutional issue because it doesn't actually happen, or it should be a major issue with our prison system.

I believe it's entirely acceptable. Incentives are a powerful tool.

Why do you ask, Dan? Tax problems?

 

[Sage]

The problem with arguing that prisoners have no rights is this: what about the people who are in prison even though they shouldn’t be? We’ve all heard of the people who are on death row until a last-minute DNA test frees them. There are innocent people who go to prison – wouldn’t you be pissed if you went to jail for no reason and then were buggered?

 

[Ghost C]

I believe it's entirely acceptable. Incentives are a powerful tool.

Why do you ask, Dan? Tax problems?

So let's say this, one day, you get arrested and charged for insider trading. You are convicted, even though you're innocent (Or not, it doesn't actually matter). You then proceed to get raped every day for your entire sentence because everyone knows you're not a real criminal, but you're still in a federal prison because of your crime.

Still entirely acceptable? If you say yes, you've got something wrong in your head. The same case goes for people convicted of many, many crimes. What about someone convicted of involuntary manslaughter - Do they deserve to be raped too? You can go to prison for alot of crimes - Saying it's acceptable for the United States government to let crimes happen because crimes have already happened is like saying "Hey, slaves are OK because we've already had them at one point in time! Let's go buy and sell some (insert minority of choice here)".

I seriously don't think some of you understand just how ignorant you sound.

 

[Danoff]

The fundamental problem is that for most crimes, rape and beatings is nowhere near an appropriate penalty. You do not lose all rights (including the right to life) simply because you stole a beer from a convenience store. You don't lose your rights (including the right to life) just because you got into a bar fight that resulted in serious injury. You don't lose all rights because you smoke pot in your home, or grow pot in your home.

Our constitution suggests that criminals don't even lose their right not to be subjected to cruel and unusual punishment by the state even when they've lost their right to life.

Why do you ask, Dan? Tax problems?

Always, but not the illegal kind.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

So let's say this, one day, you get arrested and charged for insider trading. You are convicted, even though you're innocent (Or not, it doesn't actually matter). You then proceed to get raped every day for your entire sentence because everyone knows you're not a real criminal, but you're still in a federal prison because of your crime.

Still entirely acceptable? If you say yes, you've got something wrong in your head. The same case goes for people convicted of many, many crimes. What about someone convicted of involuntary manslaughter - Do they deserve to be raped too? You can go to prison for alot of crimes - Saying it's acceptable for the United States government to let crimes happen because crimes have already happened is like saying "Hey, slaves are OK because we've already had them at one point in time! Let's go buy and sell some (insert minority of choice here)".

I never said it was acceptable to "let crimes happen". What I meant to say was, it was acceptable to use the threat of rape in jail, whether it's a common occurence or not, as an incentive to do the right thing. Innocent people shouldn't be punished for crimes they didn't commit and I appreciate your insider trading analogy. The law isn't perfect, but if jail was a pleasant place to be, I'm sure there'd be a lot more crimes committed.

I seriously don't think some of you understand just how ignorant you sound.

I can see now how I could've worded that better...

@Sage: I won't argue that, prisoners should have rights. But if there was nothing particularly bad about jail (aside from the lack of "freedom", and "detachment" from the outside world), I'm pretty sure there'd be more crimes committed. And to answer your last question: absolutely.

@Dan: I agree, but I still feel that the threat alone should be enough of an incentive.

 

[dbartucci]

I thought the point of incarceration was rehabilitation not to victimize as many of your fellow inmates as possible because they deserve it for being in jail in the first place.


I encourage you all to read this site devoted to stopping prison rape, the aptly named Stop Prison Rape organization
www.spr.org

 

[GilesGuthrie]

I thought the point of incarceration was rehabilitation not to victimize as many of your fellow inmates as possible because they deserve it for being in jail in the first place.

Do you think that incarceration helps with rehabilitation? I wonder how many prisoners are actually repentant, and wanting to make the necessary sacrifices to be better people. Sadly, I feel that crime and freeloading do pay, and that those of us who work for a living and pay our taxes are the ones footing the bill. It's probably a separate discussion though, although it does rather begat my "****-em" stance on prisoner's rights.

Been thinking about it all recently, and I wonder what options there are for prison reform that can prevent the inmates from descending to savagery, whilst being economically viable and actually beneficial to the inmate who is wanting to better himself legitimately. It's not an easy problem to solve.

 

[TheCracker]

The chances of getting ass buggered in open prison jails are next to none.

I'm sure if you asked nicely enough.......

 

[Danoff]

A recent study of prisons in four Midwestern states found that approximately one in five male inmates reported a pressured or forced sex incident while incarcerated. About one in ten male inmates reported that that they had been raped.1

Rates for women, who are most likely to be abused by male staff members, vary greatly among institutions. In one facility, 27 percent of women reported a pressured or forced sex incident, while in another facility, seven percent of women reported sexual abuse.2

...

 

[dbartucci]

Do you think that incarceration helps with rehabilitation? I wonder how many prisoners are actually repentant, and wanting to make the necessary sacrifices to be better people. Sadly, I feel that crime and freeloading do pay, and that those of us who work for a living and pay our taxes are the ones footing the bill. It's probably a separate discussion though, although it does rather begat my "****-em" stance on prisoner's rights.

Been thinking about it all recently, and I wonder what options there are for prison reform that can prevent the inmates from descending to savagery, whilst being economically viable and actually beneficial to the inmate who is wanting to better himself legitimately. It's not an easy problem to solve.

I don't know if it does work or not as rehabilitation or not. In my mind there are a few reasons to incarcerate someone as a form of punishment. One is the deterrent effect and another is to rehabilitate. These effects are not mutually exclusive.

 

[RallyF1]

when i was in college we had to do essays that dealt with socila phenomenas and one of the subjecys we had to pick was prison rape. good lord, that was one hell of a nightmare to write about. one of the sources that i stumbled upon was about interracial prison rape in which there was a charatcer, and this is true, named the booty bandit. as soon i read that name i was on my back laughing my ass off. and the thing is that prisoners where being raped by this man who they don't know who he is, all they know is that he had a great personality if you catch my drift. oh god, i should stop, i cant stop laughing man just thinking of it.

that's it i'm out

i'm all misty, i have a tear in my eye... booty bandit

 

[Danoff]

People getting raped is hilarious. Whew... I wish more rape happened because it's just entirely too funny.

 

[Kylehnat]

It's interesting; they said in college that 1 in 4 women would be raped in their lifetime, and that seems to correspond with the 27% in the article that danoff posted. If both of these are true, does this mean that there is an equal chance of being raped in prison as there is outside it?

 

[Danoff]

It's interesting; they said in college that 1 in 4 women would be raped in their lifetime, and that seems to correspond with the 27% in the article that danoff posted. If both of these are true, does this mean that there is an equal chance of being raped in prison as there is outside it?

You believed the 1 in 4 bit? That's a major exaggeration.

 

[ozyran]

I can say only one thing



Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew

I agree. 1000%.

 

[Kylehnat]

You believed the 1 in 4 bit? That's a major exaggeration.

I never really gave it much thought, seeing as how 1)I'm not a girl, and 2)I'm not a rapist. It might have been 1 in 4 will be, uh, "accidently bumped" by a drunken frat-boy.

On the other hand, it might have been blatantly misleading information (certainly likely on a college campus). The 1 in 4 may have come from (number of rapes)/(number of women), ignoring the fact that many women who are raped once are likely to be raped again if they don't change their lifestyle and/or who they associate with.

This is a depressing topic, isn't it?