Private rooms discussion

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Private rooms is a misleading term -

Thank you! 👍
I said that ages ago, but everyones just saying no we want Private Rooms...

I played a few games yet, that have proper friend invites where you make a room, set how many players you want and then just invite your friends-
then press start.
Easy, no ban options needed. Banning is pretty bad imo because if you want to play a certain event and none of your friends is up it could be very frustrating to find a room after a long search and then get banned by some noobs.

 

[patriotzero]

Taku Imasaki confirmed private rooms on 18th March 2008...8 months passed..Is it hard to implement the game? 8 months..

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

timasaki replied on March 18, 2008 at 11:58 am

SPARDA & ozzyuno,
private races with buddies and in-game chat are all in the works… but will not be ready from day one. Will keep you posted on the progress!


Is it this what you call a confirmation?

For me it´s PR BS, nothing else.
Also he made a mistake, should of said friend invites.

 

[Live The Dream]

Private rooms have been rumored to come when HOME is released which is supposed to be on the 19th November, Lets all hope it's true and not another false hope.

 

[Ardius]

timasaki replied on March 18, 2008 at 11:58 am

SPARDA & ozzyuno,
private races with buddies and in-game chat are all in the works… but will not be ready from day one. Will keep you posted on the progress!


Is it this what you call a confirmation?

For me it´s PR BS, nothing else.
Also he made a mistake, should of said friend invites.

The confirmation that Polyphony are looking into it comes from Kaz himself, however no date was ever confirmed or set. We just know we are likely to get them.
Whats misleading about private rooms? They are self explanatory, the rooms are created by users and can be optionally made private through passwords or limited access. Public rooms would be ones where anyone is allowed in, and they are usually dedicated servers.

I don't think so called "reputation systems" work particularly well, they are always abused and generally become too much focus for the "elite" players. For example, a player sets up a game, and a newbie player joins but has a low or no reputation because of their lack of experience, they are instantly kicked just because of this, even if they may actually be good, fast and clean drivers.
Eventually, all of the games become like this and online actually becomes a hassle just to find games people will let you join, I've seen this happen in many games that use ranking or reputation based systems.

The best online experience has always come from private, well organised games and matches between people who are in it to play for fun and respect each other. The nature of the internet and its anonymity will always mean public games will be ruined at some point in one way or another. The only time this isn't the case is with the older games which only have a small following left, though there are still some pricks around then.

 

[patriotzero]

Home will come out 19th November as a Beta..How will they do that? Its Beta

 

[Obli]

Whats misleading about private rooms? They are self explanatory, the rooms are created by users and can be optionally made private through passwords or limited access.

Private rooms, to me, means that not anyone can enter, only those that are invited or that know the password. There are so many people saying 'we want private rooms', that might be just what we get - be careful what you (not you specifically, Ardius) wish for!

As well as private rooms, I'd like the ability to create public rooms that anyone can enter with a means to control the abusive / punters (i.e. vote, kick, ban commands).

I don't think so called "reputation systems" work particularly well, they are always abused and generally become too much focus for the "elite" players. For example, a player sets up a game, and a newbie player joins but has a low or no reputation because of their lack of experience, they are instantly kicked just because of this, even if they may actually be good, fast and clean drivers.

Why couldn't it work well? If players want to focus purely on their reputation rating, then so be it. I'm more concerned about a reputation system being a deterrent to punters or a means to keep all punters together! Newbies, whether quick and/or clean, should still have to earn a reputation - I don't see any problem with that. It need not take too long. Just because a driver is clean and/or quick, I think if they're new to Prologue they should have to build up their reputation in a similar manor to having to build up their credits / garage.

Eventually, all of the games become like this and online actually becomes a hassle just to find games people will let you join, I've seen this happen in many games that use ranking or reputation based systems.

Depends. If their was a way to filter or auto-match only servers you can join by reputation, it wouldn't be a problem.

The best online experience has always come from private, well organised games and matches between people who are in it to play for fun and respect each other. The nature of the internet and its anonymity will always mean public games will be ruined at some point in one way or another. The only time this isn't the case is with the older games which only have a small following left, though there are still some pricks around then.

Agreed. The best experience I have had with Prologue is racing in organised races with fellow GTP'ers. However, I'd still like to race decent, clean racers outside of the GTP community. That means we either need a reputation system, an improved penalty system that truly punishes punters or a means for a host / players in a server to control the disruptive.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

@ Ardius...`are looking into it´ is even worse than what timasaki said imo and I could not disagree more about the other things you say;

I didn´t say something about a reputation system btw. I played a lot NFS:Carbon ( which had it flaws, that´s right), but the online gaming was so much fun!
For example when your opponent(s) left the race, because of whatever... you still got your points for finishing the race, also it was cool, because there where always new guys( girls ) joining the room... if you did not like them, you just made a new room in a few seconds.👍
Oh and I had lots of XP points and really loved to show the noobs and cheaters, especially the noob-cheaters, what´s up.

However, what´s missleading about private rooms?
Well, everything... you maybe really have to get them to understand it. Private rooms could well mean (for PD as for me ) that you can only make rooms where only people you invite or who have a password can join.
I mean that would be the most horrible thing I can imagine ( as far as online gaming goes .. )
So if that is what you personally want or not, does not matter, but it is still slightly ´misleading´ .


**Ok, thinking about it... private rooms is not really misleading, it´s just not what I want
or what the Ps3 community needs.
It´s just being elitist and would destroy the fun for the majority of all players!

***patriotzero, and now what should happen if home comes out 19th?
Well nothing will happen since PD is very slow and it´s a Beta...
LOL I was really thinking i wont be using home anyways, but if they force me to( just to play with my friends), oh well so be it.

****Anybody noticed how he said `will keep you posted on the progress´ ?(on March 18th )
I mean that really goes to show how they go...

 

[Ardius]

I didn´t say something about a reputation system btw. I played a lot NFS:Carbon ( which had it flaws, that´s right), but the online gaming was so much fun!
For example when your opponent(s) left the race, because of whatever... you still got your points for finishing the race, also it was cool, because there where always new guys( girls ) joining the room... if you did not like them, you just made a new room in a few seconds.👍
Oh and I had lots of XP points and really loved to show the noobs and cheaters, especially the noob-cheaters, what´s up.

However, what´s missleading about private rooms?
Well, everything... you maybe really have to get them to understand it. Private rooms could well mean (for PD as for me ) that you can only make rooms where only people you invite or who have a password can join.
I mean that would be the most horrible thing I can imagine ( as far as online gaming goes .. )
So if that is what you personally want or not, does not matter, but it is still slightly ´misleading´ .


**Ok, thinking about it... private rooms is not really misleading, it´s just not what I want
or what the Ps3 community needs.
It´s just being elitist and would destroy the fun for the majority of all players!

I never said you said anything about reputation systems, I was just responding to the poster a few posts above you, but I couldn't be bothered quoting him.

You just gave the perfect example of why reputation/skill systems don't work in my books, this whole culture of "i'll impress the noobs/i'll show the noobs how its done"...just because someone has less XP/reputation/whatever than you does not necessarily mean they are any less skilled or knowledgable than you are. Perhaps they might not have the time to play the game as much, perhaps they have started a new account, maybe they've played many similar games before, whatever, point is, the system is abused and people value it way too much.
Perhaps not everyone abuses it like this, but my point is that many gamers do and its not a positive aspect of online play, its not helping the community, its making it worse.
You say you don't want private rooms because theyre elitist, yet you make elitist comments about having XP systems...

As for the term "private" being misleading...oh come on, have you not played other games before? Private lobbies is just referring to games not created "officially". The worries about all the games being password protected or invite only are rubbish too, as all other games that have this system (and no dedicated servers) have plenty of open games for you to join if you wish. It really isn't an issue.
I also think you aren't giving PD enough credit, they are clearly researching what players want otherwise we wouldn't have Prologue. I doubt they will implement a feature which will isolate one type of player, especially seeing as they have tried to appeal more to two different types of gamers now, with the different physics engines (standard and professional).

I honestly think this is a non-issue and past games have shown private rooms/lobbies work perfectly fine and far better than the system we have now with only auto-matching.

Why couldn't it work well? If players want to focus purely on their reputation rating, then so be it. I'm more concerned about a reputation system being a deterrent to punters or a means to keep all punters together! Newbies, whether quick and/or clean, should still have to earn a reputation - I don't see any problem with that. It need not take too long. Just because a driver is clean and/or quick, I think if they're new to Prologue they should have to build up their reputation in a similar manor to having to build up their credits / garage.

I've already explained why it doesn't work well, the system rewards those who play the game a lot, not those who necessarily have skill or are clean drivers. XP systems should just be avoided full stop.
Reputation type systems can be abused too, with people giving others negative reputation just because they were beaten or annoyed or whatever.

 

[amar212]

Stats system? Yes. Through License Tests. You get your status depending on your License score. It's so simple in GT games, any other "elitism" is just not needed.

Private Lobbies? Yes. Race with your friends, with your rules, etc. Detail: NO PRIZE MONEY.

Public Lobbies? Yes. Based on License Stats for Races in Race Mode. Detail: PRIZE MONEY, BABY.

Everyone satisfied. You have true stats (no punter-moron will ever even bother to run all golds in Licenses, not even silvers - of course, with idea that Licenses stay hard-to-get as in previos games ), you hvae private lobbies (no prizes there, just real racing with clean people or whoever), and public ones (money, money, money, must be funny, in the punters world.. aaaaaaaeeaaaa..).

Voila, thank you.

 

[Ardius]

^I can agree with that system, though I'm against any kind of rating system because I feel its not needed, a license test styled one wouldn't be too bad, it would do a lot more good than say a points system based on number of wins/2nds etc or a win/loss ratio, which just promote too much elitism and punish the new players more than they help experienced players find good players.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

I never said you said anything about reputation systems, I was just responding to the poster a few posts above you, but I couldn't be bothered quoting him.

You just gave the perfect example of why reputation/skill systems don't work in my books, this whole culture of "i'll impress the noobs/i'll show the noobs how its done"...just because someone has less XP/reputation/whatever than you does not necessarily mean they are any less skilled or knowledgable than you are. Perhaps they might not have the time to play the game as much, perhaps they have started a new account, maybe they've played many similar games before, whatever, point is, the system is abused and people value it way too much.
Perhaps not everyone abuses it like this, but my point is that many gamers do and its not a positive aspect of online play, its not helping the community, its making it worse.
You say you don't want private rooms because theyre elitist, yet you make elitist comments about having XP systems...

As for the term "private" being misleading...oh come on, have you not played other games before? Private lobbies is just referring to games not created "officially". The worries about all the games being password protected or invite only are rubbish too, as all other games that have this system (and no dedicated servers) have plenty of open games for you to join if you wish. It really isn't an issue.
I also think you aren't giving PD enough credit, they are clearly researching what players want otherwise we wouldn't have Prologue. I doubt they will implement a feature which will isolate one type of player, especially seeing as they have tried to appeal more to two different types of gamers now, with the different physics engines (standard and professional).

I honestly think this is a non-issue and past games have shown private rooms/lobbies work perfectly fine and far better than the system we have now with only auto-matching.

Fair enough, you have some valid points there. I think you misunderstood what I said about the XP system a bit though.
Its not funny to beat someone without skills, but it gets funny if he´s a cheater ( mind you NFSC had a endless NOS cheat.. )
or just simply trys to punt you off everytime.
Good thing about XPs is that you can see if someone will be hard to beat beforehand or if you can relax and just cruise, imo.
And well I dont get it why we dont need dedicated servers where everyone could make a room?
Non dedicated servers ( especially for a racing game ) just dont work = are laggy, example: GT5

 

[Ardius]

Fair enough, you have some valid points there. I think you misunderstood what I said about the XP system a bit though.
Its not funny to beat someone without skills, but it gets funny if he´s a cheater ( mind you NFSC had a endless NOS cheat.. )
or just simply trys to punt you off everytime.
Good thing about XPs is that you can see if someone will be hard to beat beforehand or if you can relax and just cruise, imo.
And well I dont get it why we dont need dedicated servers where everyone could make a room?
Non dedicated servers ( especially for a racing game ) just dont work = are laggy, example: GT5

Well, I still dont like XP systems, the benefits just dont outweigh the problems.

I agree that dedicated servers are still needed, I was just saying that many other games have basically no "public" lobbies and work perfectly fine online (in the sense of players being able to find games and play, I know there is the lag issue).

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

At least we can agree that dedicated servers are needed. I think It was / is kind of an experiment from PD if they could use a non dedicated server system. Well imo it failed since it only works properly, if the host has a very strong internet connection...

As for stats I don´t know why there shouldn´t be both, license test stats and race stats?

Of course this should not mean that people with low stats can not race people with higher stats or something.
Oooh, I guess we´ll have to wait a long time until we see how they do it...

 

[DaddyVDUB]

Anyone who has ever played F1CE online & GT5P has to come away thinking WHY does'nt GT5P have the same online options as this small 2 year old game.

 

[Ardius]

Anyone who has ever played F1CE online & GT5P has to come away thinking WHY does'nt GT5P have the same online options as this small 2 year old game.

Why does this have to be repeated all the time?
Because its called Prologue for a reason!
F1:CE is a finished game, GT5 is not. End of.

 

[DaddyVDUB]

Why does this have to be repeated all the time?
Because its called Prologue for a reason!
F1:CE is a finished game, GT5 is not. End of.

Oh I understand that,thanks for pointing that out though. But I expect more out of SONY & PD in a prolouge than we've got.

 

[Asylum]

Oh I understand that,thanks for pointing that out though. But I expect more out of SONY & PD in a prolouge than we've got.

I bet your the kind of guy that looks at the glass half empty right? Be happy atleast we have a prologue and are not waiting untill 2010 or later for the game...

 

[DaddyVDUB]

I bet your the kind of guy that looks at the glass half empty right? Be happy atleast we have a prologue and are not waiting untill 2010 or later for the game...

No I'm the kind of guy when my glass is half empty I get off my duff & FILL it.

 

[kart racer]

I beleive that PD is waiting on "Home" for the private rooms.They might have a test on in the Beta,not going to hope.If it is there,:tup:If not,The reason I beleive this is that way they do not have to use any space on the full game for private rooms and voice.This leaves space for cars and tracks.That is what most of us would like,more cars and tracks.For voice chat,you can allways use one of the many options out there that work with your PC.If it is not close by,bluetooth adapter works wounders.Just my 2 cents.

 

[Obli]

As for the term "private" being misleading...oh come on, have you not played other games before? Private lobbies is just referring to games not created "officially". The worries about all the games being password protected or invite only are rubbish too, as all other games that have this system (and no dedicated servers) have plenty of open games for you to join if you wish. It really isn't an issue.

We're talking about the same thing using different terminology. I'd disagree that 'Private lobbies is just referring to games not created "officially"' because from my online gaming background, primarily of PC FPS games, non-official servers were either public (anyone can enter) or private (password protected).

I've already explained why it doesn't work well, the system rewards those who play the game a lot, not those who necessarily have skill or are clean drivers. XP systems should just be avoided full stop.
Reputation type systems can be abused too, with people giving others negative reputation just because they were beaten or annoyed or whatever.

In terms of a repuation system, I was thinking of a way to average how often a player is involved in incidents per race, gauging also the severity of the incidents. Such a system would mean that the current penalty / collsion judgement system would have to be spot on for this to work. This way, a new player wouldn't have such a disadvantage as they would have with an XP system and the huge XP defecit as a new player. I agree that an accumulative XP / stat system would encourage elitism and those that aren't necessarily any good but just play the game a lot would end up being rated highly! I also agree that a voting repuation system would be abused.

EDIT: I was thinking something along the lines of what is mentioned in this thread: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=111725

 

[o SIZE13CHOOK o]

To me it should be simular to Forza on 360.Forza dosent compare to GT5 but online is so much fun and it doesent take long to find or make your own room.

 

[Rusty*]

I beleive that PD is waiting on "Home" for the private rooms.They might have a test on in the Beta,not going to hope.If it is there,:tup:If not,The reason I beleive this is that way they do not have to use any space on the full game for private rooms and voice.This leaves space for cars and tracks.That is what most of us would like,more cars and tracks.For voice chat,you can allways use one of the many options out there that work with your PC.If it is not close by,bluetooth adapter works wounders.Just my 2 cents.

Your absolutely right, if Sony is bringing out a system by which PD can use as private race rooms that saves PD alot of time. Time that can be continued progress in other areas of the developement process.👍
I hope your right Kart Racer!
Rusty*

 

[Blitz187]

Looks like were going to have to wait longer for Private rooms then expected... I remember reading a release date for Home somewhere being like Nov 19th or something like that... well if I have to believe this article.... Home doesnt even have a RELEASE DATE yet.... Article is from Monday October 27th, and it states it doesnt have a release date yet... Nov/Dec. maybe.... It does however appear on the PSN registration site.... according to this....

http://blogs.ign.com/XoZeN/2008/10/27/104677/

PLAYSTATION Home Appears on PSN's Registration Page


""Have you Tried to Set up a New Account on the PLAYSTATION Network ? I Think you Might Find Something Interesting and New on the Registration Page...Yes, Appearing Next to the PLAYSTATION Store and the PLAYSTATION Eye Buttons, is the Long-Awaited, PLAYSTATION Home. Mind you, it Doesn't Actually Work Yet.


Given Q4 2008 is Supposed to be When Open BETA Starts, the Appearance of PS Home on the Registration Page is a Good Indication that we're Right at the Very Brink of Launch. So: YAY, SCREAM YAY ! GO ON ! We Should Soon be Able to Simulate Having a Real Social Life. (I Wonder What it'll be Like ?)


To those of you Not Familiar with PLAYSTATION Home, it's Basically a Community Social Service Tool for PSN Users. One Creates an Avatar, Furnishes a Virtual Apartment and then Interacts with Other PSN Users. Kinda like The Sims 2 but, Online and Free, although People will still Spend Real Money for Virtual Items and of Course are always the Free Ones but, with More High-Valor into Them. The Service Has been in Development since 2005 and Has Yet to be Given a Final Release Date but, Reps. from Sony Say that, PS Home, will be Released Somewhere on November/December. ""

 

[Rusty*]

Looks like were going to have to wait longer for Private rooms then expected... I remember reading a release date for Home somewhere being like Nov 19th or something like that... well if I have to believe this article.... Home doesnt even have a RELEASE DATE yet.... Article is from Monday October 27th, and it states it doesnt have a release date yet... Nov/Dec. maybe.... It does however appear on the PSN registration site.... according to this....

http://blogs.ign.com/XoZeN/2008/10/27/104677/

PLAYSTATION Home Appears on PSN's Registration Page


""Have you Tried to Set up a New Account on the PLAYSTATION Network ? I Think you Might Find Something Interesting and New on the Registration Page...Yes, Appearing Next to the PLAYSTATION Store and the PLAYSTATION Eye Buttons, is the Long-Awaited, PLAYSTATION Home. Mind you, it Doesn't Actually Work Yet.


Given Q4 2008 is Supposed to be When Open BETA Starts, the Appearance of PS Home on the Registration Page is a Good Indication that we're Right at the Very Brink of Launch. So: YAY, SCREAM YAY ! GO ON ! We Should Soon be Able to Simulate Having a Real Social Life. (I Wonder What it'll be Like ?)


To those of you Not Familiar with PLAYSTATION Home, it's Basically a Community Social Service Tool for PSN Users. One Creates an Avatar, Furnishes a Virtual Apartment and then Interacts with Other PSN Users. Kinda like The Sims 2 but, Online and Free, although People will still Spend Real Money for Virtual Items and of Course are always the Free Ones but, with More High-Valor into Them. The Service Has been in Development since 2005 and Has Yet to be Given a Final Release Date but, Reps. from Sony Say that, PS Home, will be Released Somewhere on November/December. ""

GREAT POST!!👍
I will have to deck out my "Home" with GT merchandise lol!
...Ohh, can everyone wipe ther feet before coming in.
Peace,
Rusty*

 

[LANDO]

Here's how I see private rooms working best (only slightly modelled around OSP Quake3)

You start a room and set up a password and it puts you straight onto the track in freerun mode.

You should be able to name your server to make it easy to find in a "server browser" but integration with PSN should also make you findable to your friends with a one-click join then they enter the password.

Once you have a couple of peeps you will all "ready up" and, at that point the race kicks off with the preset number of laps. If, during this race, some other(s) join the server - they will be placed into "spectate" mode until the race is over, at which point there may or may not be a "vote" for the next track, pp limits.. etc and then the latecomers will be plonked onto the track in freerun until, once again, everyone has readied up.

This in my opinion is the proper way to have ANY game played online. Warm up periods are essential - this whole idea of - everybody has to press the start button at the exact same millisecond - is patently ridiculous. Also who in their right mind would want to join an online server for just one race, in one car, on one track? If I find a good server I'm there all day!

You are absolutely right, the online system for MotorStorm is fine, they should start copying that online system, and go foward, it very easy and fast.

 

[WOT-Tuning]

Well personally, when the function is available, I think it would be a great idea to host GTP rooms with a password that only GTP members know of, so that we can enjoy bump free competitive racing.

The majority of people here race fair, so sure it would be great.

 

[Nicksfix]

No I'm the kind of guy when my glass is half empty I get off my duff & FILL it.

LMAO ,only you could think of that one 'Dubs

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Why does this have to be repeated all the time?
Because its called Prologue for a reason!
F1:CE is a finished game, GT5 is not. End of.

Poor excuse.

Nobody is asking for vast online features. The fact is a very simple online feature such as private rooms should of been available ages ago. End of.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Also on my box of GT5p is written The New Standart...