problems with tuning a car to drift

[ProtegeDrifter]

Makes sense. Which is why it doesn't go to 100% because that would mean it's no longer a Limited Slip Diff.

I've just been rocking 60/60/60, seems to work best on higher powered cars which unfortunately is what i've been driving so far (350z 530HP).

 

[Serum]

Whether initial is 5 or 60...JZ don't care.

Not sure if people are still maxing cars out or not, but to the newbs who blindly follow maxed out tunes you may want to play with the initial torque a bit.

 

[Drift_Monkey]

Whether initial is 5 or 60...JZ don't care.

Not sure if people are still maxing cars out or not, but to the newbs who blindly follow maxed out tunes you may want to play with the initial torque a bit.

Because some people on here believe that fully locked diffs should be on all cars and anyone who drifts anything else should be shot... Shout out to Gonales

 

[RAZORBACK_69]

TwinturboCH, you're back online then? I had you before but you went offline for a few months and I had to make space on my list... just trying out your baseline tune on a '91 RX-7. Is it me or have they made drifting a bit trickier on GT6?

 

[TwinturboCH]

Because some people on here believe that fully locked diffs should be on all cars and anyone who drifts anything else should be shot... Shout out to Gonales

In the context of GT6, you SHOULD be running a fully locked diff, as there is still slip from the inside wheel. The only way your statement would be correct would be if the GT6 maximum setting was essentially like a welded diff, which it isn't. For drifting, you should ALWAYS run max LSD effect under acceleration. It's just down to driver preference whether you run as 1.5-way (60/30) or 2-way (60/60). Sorry if that pisses on your chips a little, but show me a real world drifter who prefers anything less than a full locked diff, and I'll retract my statement. Anything less means you will make less traction at any given speed when on gas.

TwinturboCH, you're back online then? I had you before but you went offline for a few months and I had to make space on my list... just trying out your baseline tune on a '91 RX-7. Is it me or have they made drifting a bit trickier on GT6?

Yes, they have, it's FAR more realistic, but after some practice, I'm destroying tracks like Spa again, so it's all good

 

[Drift_Monkey]

In the context of GT6, you SHOULD be running a fully locked diff, as there is still slip from the inside wheel. The only way your statement would be correct would be if the GT6 maximum setting was essentially like a welded diff, which it isn't. For drifting, you should ALWAYS run max LSD effect under acceleration. It's just down to driver preference whether you run as 1.5-way (60/30) or 2-way (60/60). Sorry if that pisses on your chips a little, but show me a real world drifter who prefers anything less than a full locked diff, and I'll retract my statement. Anything less means you will make less traction at any given speed when on gas.



Yes, they have, it's FAR more realistic, but after some practice, I'm destroying tracks like Spa again, so it's all good

Sorry to burst your bubble but lots of drifters have said that they prefer 1.5 way LSDs and no one has ever said that yuo "Should" run a fully locked diff. You must be relatively new to the drifting community on GTP to say that we should run fully Locked diffs. Most of the good drifters here don't. It's all about driver preference.

 

[fastfox400]

Fully locked diffs actually cause a loss of traction because both inside and outside tires spin at the same speed. If the inside tire has higher wheel speed it will cause the car to accelerate harder on exit along with making the car more stable .

 

[TwinturboCH]

Sorry to burst your bubble but lots of drifters have said that they prefer 1.5 way LSDs and no one has ever said that yuo "Should" run a fully locked diff. You must be relatively new to the drifting community on GTP to say that we should run fully Locked diffs. Most of the good drifters here don't. It's all about driver preference.

Learn to read I said drifter all either use 1.5 or 2-way. I also said that, regardless of GT6 setups, REAL WORLD DRIFTERS will ALWAYS wants a fully locked diff under acceleration. Not exactly rocket science.

And as per all my other replies, do research into who I am before you say that I am 'relatively new' LOL

Fully locked diffs actually cause a loss of traction because both inside and outside tires spin at the same speed. If the inside tire has higher wheel speed it will cause the car to accelerate harder on exit along with making the car more stable .

Not true. The whole purpose of an LSD is to increase traction.
In the REAL WORLD it works like this:
Open diff = More manoeuvrability, less traction and stability.
Locked diff = More traction and stability, less manoeuvrability.

When turning, the inside wheel is unloaded, therefore you need to send the power to the outside wheel in order to accelerate without spinning power away on the inside wheel, hence why powerful rear cars (regardless of FWD or RWD) run and LSD under acceleration. Obviously in an FWD you do not want as much lock in the diff, as it will cause understeer, however, that is NOT the case with RWD. Why do you think drifters will ALWAYS either run a mechanical 2-way diff (something like the Nismo in my R32 which is 80% locked, or the shimmed standard diff in my E92 M3, for instance) or a welded diff (such as that run by the current Polish Drift Federation Champion, or by me in ALL of my school cars which include R32's, S13's, E46's and JZZ30's). If the thinking was that a diff with less lock was good for traction and stability, then why does no drifter EVER run a stock LSD?

P.S. Happy new year

 

[Drift_Monkey]

Ok bro, we've had enough LSD arguments on gtp. And it always comes down to preference which is why I said you must be new here in which you seem new to the forums. We've debated already that not all drifters want fully locked diffs. Let's get back on topic before the mods intervene.

PS: I don't know who you are and I don't need to know. It wont really make a difference.

 

[TwinturboCH]

Ok bro, we've had enough LSD arguments on gtp. And it always comes down to preference which is why I said you must be new here in which you seem new to the forums. We've debated already that not all drifters want fully locked diffs. Let's get back on topic before the mods intervene.

PS: I don't know who you are and I don't need to know. It wont really make a difference.

It may indeed be down to preference, but anyone running a less than locked diff and says they prefer it is actually just tuning the car to make up for deficiencies in their technique. Sorry, but it's the truth.

If you choose to ignore my advice, so be it, it makes no difference to me, but the fact you say it makes no difference who I am is essentially saying my experience counts for nothing, shows you have no intention of actually listening to what's being said, regardless of whether the person saying it is a total newb or someone who has competed in D1 and been drifting for over a decade.

The fact is the diff is a large proportion of what makes a RWD car handle the way it does when sideways, so the tuning of it is somewhat fundamental to getting the most from the car and setup, if you are talking about setups (which this thread IS about) then the first thing you need to do is get the diff working properly. My tunes, for instance, which are all based around a locked 2-way diff (60/60), will not work with a diff that is set up differently, e.g. stiff 1.5-way (60/30) or sloppy 2-way (40/40) etc.

Discussion is what makes a forum, so give us some reasons why you prefer x-setting on the diff and we can have a sensible discussion.

 

[Mohave]

No offense but this tune looks horrible. Raising the car will give it way too much body roll and we'll become unstable. There is a medium when it comes to running on this game. That excessive camber will make you extremely slow

So, lower it to the limit with + 5 on the rear if needed, and 0.0-1.5 camber rear? And the toes are horrible too? Im here to learn so teach me (i use DS3, cuz the wheels setups are totally different).

 

[Voryaa]

Hey TwinTurboCH -- You seem to know what you're talking about. I am a complete newb at setups and my understanding of differentials in general. I have been having issues with drifting high powered cars with wheel, with controller I am not doing too bad. Anyway, I was wondering what the setup should be, as far as GT6 is concerned. Is it 5, 60, 60? I sometimes run at 20, 40, 40 with wheel and that helps, and this is probably because of my own drifting incompetency. Also, I have my traction set to 1, since I found out that setting it to 0 spins the car out of control. What setting do you use there?

Thanks

 

[twitcher]

You're definitely going to want to set your traction control to zero. The "spinning out of control" is the whole essence of what you're trying to do...just not out of control.

 

[Mohave]

Lol, TCS is the biggest enemy of drift

 

[TwinturboCH]

Hey TwinTurboCH -- You seem to know what you're talking about. I am a complete newb at setups and my understanding of differentials in general. I have been having issues with drifting high powered cars with wheel, with controller I am not doing too bad. Anyway, I was wondering what the setup should be, as far as GT6 is concerned. Is it 5, 60, 60? I sometimes run at 20, 40, 40 with wheel and that helps, and this is probably because of my own drifting incompetency. Also, I have my traction set to 1, since I found out that setting it to 0 spins the car out of control. What setting do you use there?

Thanks

TCS to 0 You need to learn to control the throttle to stop spinning out.

IDEALLY you want to run 5/60/60 with most setups, but some cars work better with a 5/60/30 setup (those which have less grip when off-gas). It can also be down to personal preference and driving style.
In the real world, a LOT of japanese drifters use 1.5-way diffs for some reason, but then most Euro and US drifters either use a 2-way, a MIG diff, or a spool, all of which function in a similar way on and off-gas, the only difference between them being how they respond when you dip the clutch.

The tighter your diff setting on acceleration, the more direct the link will be between throttle/rpm/outside rear wheel speed. And the outside rear-wheel is the one which does all the accelerating and gripping when in a drift. Less lock in the diff will make the car more 'sloppy' when initiating, while a tighter setting will make the car's responses more immediate.

Hope that makes sense, but if not, let me know and I'll try to go into more detail.

 

[Voryaa]

TCS to 0 You need to learn to control the throttle to stop spinning out.

IDEALLY you want to run 5/60/60 with most setups, but some cars work better with a 5/60/30 setup (those which have less grip when off-gas). It can also be down to personal preference and driving style.
In the real world, a LOT of japanese drifters use 1.5-way diffs for some reason, but then most Euro and US drifters either use a 2-way, a MIG diff, or a spool, all of which function in a similar way on and off-gas, the only difference between them being how they respond when you dip the clutch.

The tighter your diff setting on acceleration, the more direct the link will be between throttle/rpm/outside rear wheel speed. And the outside rear-wheel is the one which does all the accelerating and gripping when in a drift. Less lock in the diff will make the car more 'sloppy' when initiating, while a tighter setting will make the car's responses more immediate.

Hope that makes sense, but if not, let me know and I'll try to go into more detail.

Hey, thanks! That makes sense. I actually had my traction to 1, which is what was causing my problems. I am able to drift wayyy better after turning the traction to 0 and running on 5 60 60. Although, I am still having trouble drifting with my Driving Force Pro wheel, when it's set to 900degrees. I was able to control throttle and drift lot better after switching it to 200degrees. This maybe due to the fact that I am not quick enough with my wheel control.

Anyway, thanks!
Cheers!

 

[TwinturboCH]

Hey, thanks! That makes sense. I actually had my traction to 1, which is what was causing my problems. I am able to drift wayyy better after turning the traction to 0 and running on 5 60 60. Although, I am still having trouble drifting with my Driving Force Pro wheel, when it's set to 900degrees. I was able to control throttle and drift lot better after switching it to 200degrees. This maybe due to the fact that I am not quick enough with my wheel control.

Anyway, thanks!
Cheers!

The problem with the DFP is that it is too slow to respond With a G25/27, you can let go of the wheel and it will self-centre at the correct speed. The DFP is slow and so you have to really push it round to get the opposite lock on. I have DFP, DFGT and G25, and for drifting the only one that works properly is the G25 I'm afraid. You will be able to get the hang of it on a DFP, but it will be harder, and if you switch to a G25/27 you will find it a 1,000,000 times easier.

 

[Voryaa]

The problem with the DFP is that it is too slow to respond With a G25/27, you can let go of the wheel and it will self-centre at the correct speed. The DFP is slow and so you have to really push it round to get the opposite lock on. I have DFP, DFGT and G25, and for drifting the only one that works properly is the G25 I'm afraid. You will be able to get the hang of it on a DFP, but it will be harder, and if you switch to a G25/27 you will find it a 1,000,000 times easier.

Oh that's interesting and it makes a lot of sense. I am literally fighting the wheel in the corners and having a lot of trouble with turning the wheel with DFP. I guess this is both good news and bad news. Good news is that DFP is not really cut out for drifting and bad news is that I need to buy a new wheel and they are expensive. Anyway, thanks again. I will probably just play with 200degree mode for now, until I can afford to buy a better wheel.

 

[skazz]

Speaking of the G25, I have been getting a lot better at drifting since I started trying in Assetto Corsa using my G25 and the drift-prepared E30/E92. My PS3/GT6 is however hooked up to my T500RS and it feels very different: That plus having to tune my own drift cars is giving me quite a challenge getting anywhere near as smooth on GT6 as AC. I'm getting a bit confused as to where to look for improvement.

One thing I notice in AC is that it's much harder to overload the front tyres, which makes it a lot easier to keep drifts going and smoothly exit them. In GT6 I regularly find the fronts losing all grip... I know that means I'm doing things wrong, but I'm not sure exactly what: Is it my tune or my technique (related to how different the wheel is)?

I was using TwinTurboCH's advise from one of the other GT6 drift threads for basic tuning, currently having most success with an M3 E92 and a 370Z. They are deliberately not overpowered, I am turning in smoothly and applying throttle to get the rears sliding, then modulating the throttle while letting the wheel spin, then gradually easing off the throttle and bringing the wheel back to center to exit the drift in the same manner as AC, but it's a lot harder to do this in GT6... I guess either my wheel technique is wrong (currently running the T500RS at FFB=10 and power steering on to maximize spin speed, but it feels somewhat different to the G25 in AC) or I need to tweak the ARB, ride heights or something else to improve front end grip.

I guess I should lug my PC to my T500RS and get a feel for AC drifting with the T500RS, but that'll probably just rule the wheel differences out and point the finger at my technique and GT6.

[[[[[Edit: well I just spent the last hour getting frustrated trying to drift AC with my T500RS. I think it's the combination of much more powerful wheel spin speed with more weight to fight against from the belt drive and big chunky rim. In AC I was having trouble keeping the T500RS under control at my usual FFB gain setting, and while slightly lower FFB gain slowed spin speeds down closer to G25 it still requires more force to turn the wheel so you don't really have as much freedom/ease to correct bad form.

I'm starting to think that the T500RS isn't a good wheel to learn on, compared to the extremely free spinning G25. It's funny, the FFB is way better, the wheel feels so much more realistic, but that certainly doesn't make it easier to use! Still, it will no doubt force me to be more precise with the throttle and a better driver in the end

 

[TwinturboCH]

Speaking of the G25, I have been getting a lot better at drifting since I started trying in Assetto Corsa using my G25 and the drift-prepared E30/E92. My PS3/GT6 is however hooked up to my T500RS and it feels very different: That plus having to tune my own drift cars is giving me quite a challenge getting anywhere near as smooth on GT6 as AC. I'm getting a bit confused as to where to look for improvement.

One thing I notice in AC is that it's much harder to overload the front tyres, which makes it a lot easier to keep drifts going and smoothly exit them. In GT6 I regularly find the fronts losing all grip... I know that means I'm doing things wrong, but I'm not sure exactly what: Is it my tune or my technique (related to how different the wheel is)?

I was using TwinTurboCH's advise from one of the other GT6 drift threads for basic tuning, currently having most success with an M3 E92 and a 370Z. They are deliberately not overpowered, I am turning in smoothly and applying throttle to get the rears sliding, then modulating the throttle while letting the wheel spin, then gradually easing off the throttle and bringing the wheel back to center to exit the drift in the same manner as AC, but it's a lot harder to do this in GT6... I guess either my wheel technique is wrong (currently running the T500RS at FFB=10 and power steering on to maximize spin speed, but it feels somewhat different to the G25 in AC) or I need to tweak the ARB, ride heights or something else to improve front end grip.

I guess I should lug my PC to my T500RS and get a feel for AC drifting with the T500RS, but that'll probably just rule the wheel differences out and point the finger at my technique and GT6.

[[[[[Edit: well I just spent the last hour getting frustrated trying to drift AC with my T500RS. I think it's the combination of much more powerful wheel spin speed with more weight to fight against from the belt drive and big chunky rim. In AC I was having trouble keeping the T500RS under control at my usual FFB gain setting, and while slightly lower FFB gain slowed spin speeds down closer to G25 it still requires more force to turn the wheel so you don't really have as much freedom/ease to correct bad form.

I'm starting to think that the T500RS isn't a good wheel to learn on, compared to the extremely free spinning G25. It's funny, the FFB is way better, the wheel feels so much more realistic, but that certainly doesn't make it easier to use! Still, it will no doubt force me to be more precise with the throttle and a better driver in the end

I know this is the last thing you will want to hear, as the T500 is super expensive, but when I used it at GTA Race Camp on the pods, I HATED it. I couldn't feel what the car was doing, I couldn't modulate the steering, it felt notchy, feedback went from weak to strong to quickly etc. Personally, I'd be using your G25 for both, or sell the T500 and buy another G25/G27, since it sounds like you have two rigs anyway

 

[skazz]

I know this is the last thing you will want to hear, as the T500 is super expensive, but when I used it at GTA Race Camp on the pods, I HATED it. I couldn't feel what the car was doing, I couldn't modulate the steering, it felt notchy, feedback went from weak to strong to quickly etc. Personally, I'd be using your G25 for both, or sell the T500 and buy another G25/G27, since it sounds like you have two rigs anyway

I'm a compulsive wheel buyer, also have a DFGT and a Fanatec set. But I will definitely take your advise and attach the G25 to the PS3 at some point, just to see how that feels...

In truth the T500RS actually can deliver very good feedback in GT6 and in AC, lovely smooth feel with plenty of detail, but you have to set FFB low enough so that centering forces aren't clipping and drowning out all other detail (most people use FFB=3 or 4 in GT6 since any higher and you lose detail, although it does slow down peak spin speed to do that). Sounds like they didn't set the wheel up for GTA race camp very well.

Since writing my previous post I put more time into GT6 and concluded that FFB=10 isn't my best compromise to drift with. It lets the T500RS spin super fast, but finesse of the wheel is tricky when you are still learning and trying to understand the dance between throttle control and wheel angle. If I set FFB=8 I can bring the T500RS to a spin speed which is still a bit faster than a G25, but which makes it easier to turn. I was starting to get more control over it like that both in AC and in GT6.

Anyway, thank you for the feedback. I really appreciate just how much difference the specific wheel makes now. I just need to get lots of seat time both getting a feel for throttle control and tweaking cars based on the advice you gave in other threads.

 

[TwinturboCH]

No worries

Sounds like I need to have a play with a T500 and see what it's like in a controlled environment, not on a random Sony-owned pod.

 

[Gonales]

Because some people on here believe that fully locked diffs should be on all cars and anyone who drifts anything else should be shot... Shout out to Gonales

Thank you for the explanation about the differentials @TwinturboCH

Personally, I run a 1-way differential (which is 5 60 5 on GT6 , if Im correct). The reason for this is that my ebrake setup isn't great and the car is a little more forgiving when using the ebrake. It will tend to understeer more because the outside wheel (which has more weight pressing on it, as far as I know), has more grip.

Do you think this is correct, or am I mistaken there?

 

[Natalia90]

I have a lot of problems with setup ooooh my god! LSD,Suspension,Gears...but im training all day and NO PROGRESS >.< GRRR