Project CARS 3: General Discussion Thread - Out August 28th, 2020 on XB1/PS4/PC

[Benny44]

@Scaff thanks for the video. Somewhat ironically, I think you've made my final decision to buy this game. Things I don't care too much about are graphics and UI. Unless it's a glaring problem, I won't notice or care. And since we haven't had a proper GT game on the PS4, it'll be nice to get a game to fill that void.

My main concern was the handling. And it seems it's closer to Pcars 2 than NFS. Hopefully they can tweak a few things to make the wheel feel better than what I've heard. One reviewer even said he PREFERRED the controller and just put his wheel away. That's my only lingering concern - will a wheel be fun to use.

Again, thanks for the unbiased thoughts. And I completely agree on your point about music in racing games!

 

[Scaff]

@Scaff thanks for the video. Somewhat ironically, I think you've made my final decision to buy this game. Things I don't care too much about are graphics and UI. Unless it's a glaring problem, I won't notice or care. And since we haven't had a proper GT game on the PS4, it'll be nice to get a game to fill that void.

My main concern was the handling. And it seems it's closer to Pcars 2 than NFS. Hopefully they can tweak a few things to make the wheel feel better than what I've heard. One reviewer even said he PREFERRED the controller and just put his wheel away. That's my only lingering concern - will a wheel be fun to use.

Again, thanks for the unbiased thoughts. And I completely agree on your point about music in racing games!

Thanks, I do my best to be un-biased about titles, so the positive feedback on the video is welcome.

 

[cosme]

Hi Scaff, do you think that graphics-wise, PC3 is at least on par with PC2 on the PS4 Pro, or got downgraded?

I am asking you this because I am out now, and looking at videos on Youtube from the phone does not help much.

If it got downgraded also on the graphics side, this game is a complete mess.

On some videos graphics look ok, but on others it's almost PS3 quality. I remember I was not impressed with PC2 graphics on my PS4 Pro, but still enjoyed it a lot. Was it that bad there as well? It's hard to tell.

There is a side by side comparison video, and PC3 doesn't look good here.

 

[Silver_Wolf]

I have elected to leave this for the "bargain bin sale". I have some other games coming out at the end of the week and quite a few anime
and Miku figures due in the next month so money is somewhat tight!

I am disappointed with how it looks on PS4, the graphics seem like it should be on the PS3 and not the current gen console

At least the handling seems to be quite reasonable and the track/car selection cannot be faulted, will be interesting to see how the game develops
with updates/DLC etc.

 

[FuriousDemon]

@Scaff, thanks for the preview. Seems to be in line with expectations, based on what we knew. One question though, you said "Gran Turismo for kids". Did you mean more like "pCARS for kids", since you put pCARS 3 between GT/Forza and pCARS 1/2?

 

[Chikane_GTR]

I just noticed they killed off DRS you cant map it and i haven't seen the p1 gtr use it

 

[MagpieRacer]

I just noticed they killed off DRS you cant map it and i haven't seen the p1 gtr use it

Yeah seems that its just boost/ers/turbo that has a mapppable function.

 

[RedRockValley]

So there's forced assists in this game? Instant turn off for me.
I think my main issue with this game though is that it seems to be trying too hard to be the definition of "simcade". I'm not sure how I can expand on that point further but it just gives me that vibe.

 

[Corsa]

Wow is the ambient occlusion and blur way overdone? It looks far too blended.
I’ll have to really crank up sharpening and adjust ignore film grain.

 

[Scaff]

@Scaff, thanks for the preview. Seems to be in line with expectations, based on what we knew. One question though, you said "Gran Turismo for kids". Did you mean more like "pCARS for kids", since you put pCARS 3 between GT/Forza and pCARS 1/2?

Yep, that's exactly what I mean.

It reminded me of Kaz's idea of a GT that was more accessible, and that how I think of this version of Project Cars.

 

[McLaren]

On some videos graphics look ok, but on others it's almost PS3 quality. I remember I was not impressed with PC2 graphics on my PS4 Pro, but still enjoyed it a lot. Was it that bad there as well? It's hard to tell.

There is a side by side comparison video, and PC3 doesn't look good here.

Honestly, to me, it looks like both games took a step back; PC1 looks really sharp. PC2 isn't bad, some better details like the carbon in the diffuser.

Did the creator forget to adjust his audio? There's no way each sequel got that much quieter than the last.

 

[MagpieRacer]

So there's forced assists in this game? Instant turn off for me.
I think my main issue with this game though is that it seems to be trying too hard to be the definition of "simcade". I'm not sure how I can expand on that point further but it just gives me that vibe.

Yeah, there's definitely an opposite lock assist which was an optional assist in PC2 but is now just there all the time and its much stronger than it was in PC2.

After playing a bit more this morning I now also think there's a traction assist.


If you listen and look atbthe revs as I go down the straight over the bumps it sounds and feels like the throttle is being pulled back traction control style. I've come across it a few times now, it could just be how the car is bouncing but I would expect it to behave different so I feel like there is a traction assist as well that can't be turned off.

The 1000bhp Formula X as an example, can be taken to a ludicrous angle of drift and the opposite lock assist holds the angle for yiu and this hidden traction assist pulls the throttle back.

Its still possible to spin and stuff but it takes a bit of effort.

 

[RedRockValley]

If you listen and look atbthe revs as I go down the straight over the bumps it sounds and feels like the throttle is being pulled back traction control style. I've come across it a few times now, it could just be how the car is bouncing but I would expect it to behave different so I feel like there is a traction assist as well that can't be turned off.

I think I noticed this in the preview videos but couldn't put my finger on it... Now I know! Not a good look for sure.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I think I noticed this in the preview videos but couldn't put my finger on it... Now I know! Not a good look for sure.

Yeah. I mean, to go on the flipside, it is fun to drive, I hammered around 12 laps of Jerez in the Audi V8 Group A without even thinking, but every now and then you just turn in and do a massive 4 wheel drift and it feels a bit forced and random. When it doesnt do that it feels nice to play. But my comparison point is Forza Motorsport and it just feels a little disconnected compared to Forza.

I really want to like this game.

 

[beyond72]

On some videos graphics look ok, but on others it's almost PS3 quality.

It's due to the system the game uses to try and keep a steady framerate. And it's not an exaggeration to say it's like playing a PS3 title at times!

 

[psychoazubi]

As a backer of both, pcars 1 and 2, i am pretty sad of what they are doing with this name. They should've called it Grid or something...

Apart from that, the game itself looks quite okay, as I enjoy both directions, sim and arcade, basically every game that has cars in it. But what i don't like here is the motion blur; Can you turn it off?

Waiting for the game to be on sale soon, I'm busy with ACC, Forza and The Crew in the meantime...

 

[IfAndOr]

Yeah. I mean, to go on the flipside, it is fun to drive,

I think that is exactly what they were aiming for. Job done SMS.

I really want to like this game.

Do you think that given time you'll adjust to its "charm"? It's early days now with you learning from scratch as such. Previous PC titles can take a while to adapt to for many players but once they "click" they can provide great enjoyment.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I think that is exactly what they were aiming for. Job done SMS.

Do you think that given time you'll adjust to its "charm"? It's early days now with you learning from scratch as such. Previous PC titles can take a while to adapt to for many players but once they "click" they can provide great enjoyment.

Maybe. It's hard to say. Theres still some things outside the driving that fundamentally kill huge chunks of my enjoyment, and maybe thats just me being pedantic but the custom race car classes are really getting under my skin. If I'm gonna have to grind for cash and XP, I wanna do it my way and have fun.

 

[PJTierney]

Would anybody be interested in some casual multiplayer lobbies in the future?

Can do either Xbox or Steam.

I previously ran a successful Forza Motorsport 7 Club which had good, clean racing for many years:

 

[IfAndOr]

the custom race car classes are really getting under my skin.

Yes I can see that as a problem, for myself included. I can perhaps see the reasons for it in the "fun" anything goes career mode races, but it is a strange design choice not to allow fully customisable custom races for those who want to enjoy it their own way. It would seem a easy way to satisfy their previous audience.

I don't suppose anyone has got that far yet but are the more advanced career races more selective in their car choices. All GT3 type cars for instance like in the trailer.

 

[breyzipp]

So I ended up buying it anyway, just got the deluxe edition for the X1X. I liked Project CARS 2 a lot but it was a bit of a struggle to set up the cars properly for my controller (can’t/won’t use my rig setup due to a knee injury that might return). But at the same time I appreciated the sim aspect of full day/night cycles, pit stops, qualifying laps and all that. In the end I think I do enjoy a game like Forza Horizon more, it’s just so polished and chill/relaxing to play, lying lazy stretched out in the sofa with a controller in my hands.

Project CARS 3 now seems to be more arcade (Should be named Project CARA 3 then? ) It’s sad, especially with pitstops and rallycross removed, but it also peaks my interest to see if controls/setup are more forgiving when you play with a controller. At worse, I guess this will be Forza Horizon meets GRID on the fine track selection of Project CARS 2. Aah well.

Its downloading now but I’m sure yet I will even give it a try tonight. Also snagged The Outer Worlds from the Xbox sales for 30 EUR and tbh I’m more interested to give that a try first.

 

[Wolfe]

After playing a bit more this morning I now also think there's a traction assist...
...

I have an idea -- could there be too much elasticity in the new drivetrain model? Could that also be related to the lack of oversteer from the money shift @Scaff tried?

Yeah. I mean, to go on the flipside, it is fun to drive, I hammered around 12 laps of Jerez in the Audi V8 Group A without even thinking, but every now and then you just turn in and do a massive 4 wheel drift and it feels a bit forced and random. When it doesnt do that it feels nice to play. But my comparison point is Forza Motorsport and it just feels a little disconnected compared to Forza.

You and I must have different feelings on Forza because what I see looks significantly more realistic, and less assisted, not more. PC3 is overt with its countersteer (it reminds me of Mercedes-Benz World Racing), but for a long time Forza has inflicted a relatively covert forced countersteer assist upon players.

For the record, FM7 is the only one I haven't had a chance to try myself.

In Forza, when you countersteer the front wheels pull the car out of oversteer. It is very noticeable when you've learned to recognize the trait, as I did from all the time I spent playing FM4 and FH1. It makes drift trajectories unrealistic, which is something I can identify in gameplay video, and is one of the main things about Forza that kills my enjoyment in those games. My driving style leans toward oversteer in race driving as well, and it's challenging to wrap my head around getting the car where I intend or expect it to go with Forza physics.

Forza's physics are also very understeery in my opinion, yet very drifty on the throttle in RWD cars. Lifting the throttle, weight shifting, and braking do not produce the oversteer I expect -- especially for mid- or rear-engined cars -- but there is more power oversteer than I expect. The understeer is the other main thing that kills my enjoyment and screws up my intended line.

I don't mean to pick an argument over Forza, just laying out what I think of it in the context of how it compares here. Drifting doesn't look as wrong to me as how it goes in Forza, and countersteer does not appear to provide that "assist" force. Oversteer without using the throttle certainly doesn't appear to be lacking, and RWD cars appear to stick to the road better coming out of corners.

It's worth noting that I think PCARS2 also exhibits a similar countersteer effect where the front wheels seemed to have an outsized influence on the handling, but only in some of the cars -- the ones that are the most sensitive with a controller, most especially the few that bite your head off with snap-overcorrection, like the Rocket Bunny GT86.

 

[evldave333]

Sounds compelling to me I like driving titles that I can play when im tired that dont require fighter pilot concentration levels. What interests me is how the game plays when the cars are fully upgraded... I should imagine the initial offerings are nerfed and not a good indication of how the game plays at its optimum... Not going to touch it until its heavily discounted and fully patched though...

 

[MagpieRacer]

Yes I can see that has a problem, for myself included. I can perhaps see the reasons for it in the "fun" anything goes career mode races, but it is a strange design choice not to allow fully customisable custom races for those who want to enjoy it their own way. It would seem a easy way to satisfy their previous audience.

I don't suppose anyone has got that far yet but are the more advanced career races more selective in their car choices. All GT3 type cars for instance like in the trailer.

Not in the main career events I havent seen yet but in the invitational and bonus events sections there are more focussed choices it seems. For example there's a Group 5 championship in the challenges section which specifies 3 cars to choose from, BMW 320 turbo, Zakspeed Capri or Skyline Silhouette. LMP Legends which the vehicle requirements state LMP-GT and quite a few single male series like Formula E. Then there's invitationals one of which is limited to either BMW 2002 or Ford Escort RS1600, a group C one limited to 3 of the cars, and a classic one limited to the DBR1 or Ferrari 250.

So theres clearly no technical limited on choosing specific cars as they've done it in the bonus section of career mode.

 

[MroczMR]

Not in the main career events I havent seen yet but in the invitational and bonus events sections there are more focussed choices it seems. For example there's a Group 5 championship in the challenges section which specifies 3 cars to choose from, BMW 320 turbo, Zakspeed Capri or Skyline Silhouette. LMP Legends which the vehicle requirements state LMP-GT and quite a few single male series like Formula E. Then there's invitationals one of which is limited to either BMW 2002 or Ford Escort RS1600, a group C one limited to 3 of the cars, and a classic one limited to the DBR1 or Ferrari 250.

So theres clearly no technical limited on choosing specific cars as they've done it in the bonus section of career mode.

That actually pissed me off even more. So why SMS didn't do that in Custom Race?
I feel like they deliberately cut all the features old fans wanted to make them angry...

 

[MagpieRacer]

I have an idea -- could there be too much elasticity in the new drivetrain model? Could that also be related to the lack of oversteer from the money shift @Scaff tried?


You and I must have different feelings on Forza because what I see looks significantly more realistic, and less assisted, not more. PC3 is overt with its countersteer (it reminds me of Mercedes-Benz World Racing), but for a long time Forza has inflicted a relatively covert forced countersteer assist upon players.

For the record, FM7 is the only one I haven't had a chance to try myself.

In Forza, when you countersteer the front wheels pull the car out of oversteer. It is very noticeable when you've learned to recognize the trait, as I did from all the time I spent playing FM4 and FH1. It makes drift trajectories unrealistic, which is something I can identify in gameplay video, and is one of the main things about Forza that kills my enjoyment in those games. My driving style leans toward oversteer in race driving as well, and it's challenging to wrap my head around getting the car where I intend or expect it to go with Forza physics.

Forza's physics are also very understeery in my opinion, yet very drifty on the throttle in RWD cars. Lifting the throttle, weight shifting, and braking do not produce the oversteer I expect -- especially for mid- or rear-engined cars -- but there is more power oversteer than I expect.

I don't mean to pick an argument over Forza, just laying out what I think of it in the context of how it compares here. Drifting doesn't look as wrong to me as how it goes in Forza, and countersteer does not appear to provide that "assist" force. Oversteer without using the throttle certainly doesn't appear to be lacking, and RWD cars appear to stick to the road better coming out of corners.

It's worth noting that I think PCARS2 also exhibits a similar countersteer effect where the front wheels seemed to have an outsized influence on the handling, but only in some of the cars -- the ones that are the most sensitive with a controller, most especially the few that bite your head off with snap-overcorrection, like the Rocket Bunny GT86.

The driveline modelling is marketing BS. Its 100% a traction assist. Less subtle than the one in F1 2020 on a pad. Its most noticable on bumpy circuits and when attacking curbs.

Regarding Forza, having played them back to back. They feel very very similar. The opposite lock assist i know has been there in Forza for as long as I can remember playing Forza, but its nowhere near as aggressive as PC3. The drifting in PC3 feels very unnatural on a pad because of the hidden assists underneath.

I'm not gonna sit here and say one is better than the other or whatever, simply that regardless of whether PC3s physics are better than or equal to Forza 7 in peoples opinion (and frankly I don't care which in this case), PC3 has much more assistance under the skin which, when going directly between the 2 as I have done, makes PC3 feel disconnected compared to Forza.

 

[Scaff]

Comparison across the whole series, with a Formula Rookie at Oulton Park in the rain.

 

[IfAndOr]

So there's clearly no technical limited on choosing specific cars as they've done it in the bonus section of career mode.

OK. So there is hope then of maybe some adjustments in the future.

and quite a few single male series

Is that because all the females have left them since they've been playing those "damn stupid racing games" all the time?



PC3 Bottom right Scaff

 

[Wolfe]

@MagpieRacer -- OK. I appreciate the feedback. 👍 As always, I'll have to see for myself when I get my hands on it later.

 

[AlexWilmot]

Comparison across the whole series, with a Formula Rookie at Oulton Park in the rain.

Seeing this and the Corvette comparison... I think I should get PC1