Project CARS 3 Plans Free Post-Launch DLC Tracks

[FrankieStail]

But with pc2 having the superior content and physics it begs the question why anyone that already has pc2 would feel the need to buy pc3?

 

[davidt33]

There are a few tracks that, to me, have sort of a legendary status in terms of current and historic importance. On that list are (I might be missing some) Spa, Le Mans, Norschleiffe, Silverstone, Indianapolis, Monza and Suzuka. When one of them is missing in a game like this ( or GT, AC or Forza ) it to me feels like it's not entirely complete.

Agreed. They are great, legendary tracks I look forward to also.

 

[evldave333]

But with pc2 having the superior content and physics it begs the question why anyone that already has pc2 would feel the need to buy pc3?

For a pad user the need is abundantly clear...

 

[gregc]

For a pad user the need is abundantly clear...

Not for this pad user.

 

[FrankieStail]

I’ve read the complaints and haven’t tried pad on pc2, however I did use pad on pc1 without any complaints and that was my first driving game since the days of the zx spectrum.

Indeed I have original project cars to thank for getting me into sim racing and going on to get wheel, playseat and buttkicker.
Never once did I see any fault with pad handling but maybe I didn’t know any better?

 

[FT-1]

But with pc2 having the superior content and physics it begs the question why anyone that already has pc2 would feel the need to buy pc3?

To quote responses to a similar question from the main thread...

Better pad controls, structured career mode with progression, a sense of car ownership and car customisation/upgrades.

These features make PC3 more appealing to me than its predecessor because its gameplay style is more akin to racing games I enjoy playing.

Upgrades will add so much depth to half of my most-driven cars in PCARS2 (eg. GT86, 2002 Turbo, Evo VI TME), and liveries will allow me to finally personalize the other half (ie. every racecar I like). In spite of all of PCARS3's faults that stuff is a huge improvement over PCARS2's dry and static offerings. PCARS2 is a fine sim, but a boring game.

Having things to buy and upgrade will lend more context to racing for some time, even in free races, and the game should be more comfortable to play, hopefully with improved drifting physics as well.

A couple of newer cars, a couple of new fake tracks plus a real one, better pad controls if you don't use a wheel, car customizations, umm... well pretty much the gist of it, you're getting a casual car customization couch playing game you can drink while playing instead of a motorsport simulation game

Simply put, PC3 has got features that make it better as a game compared to PC2.

 

[FrankieStail]

I prefer sim than game so not for me then.

 

[evldave333]

I’ve read the complaints and haven’t tried pad on pc2, however I did use pad on pc1 without any complaints and that was my first driving game since the days of the zx spectrum.

Indeed I have original project cars to thank for getting me into sim racing and going on to get wheel, playseat and buttkicker.
Never once did I see any fault with pad handling but maybe I didn’t know any better?

lol coming from a spectrum it must have been truly incredible, but in the context of other driving games this generation it was lacking... fingers crossed this time will be better...

 

[Chikane_GTR]

For a pad user the need is abundantly clear...

 

[gregc]

To quote responses to a similar question from the main thread...







Simply put, PC3 has got features that make it better as a game compared to PC2.

Pretty much all of those things are subjective though - I'm happy with the pad handling in pCARS2, I have zero interest in the car modding/customisation aspect, I want proper races not catch-the-rabbit 3-5 lap ones, I hate the whole XP/Credits thing in racing games. Those things may make it a better game for some, and that's great for them - I hope they enjoy it, but they are neutral to negative for me.

The only things that I can see in pCARS3 that I would identify as positives over 2 are the McLaren GT3 & 4, Interlagos and Jerez. And they don't even come close to making up for what has been removed, both in terms of content and realistic motorsport.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Pretty much all of those things are subjective though - I'm happy with the pad handling in pCARS2, I have zero interest in the car modding/customisation aspect, I want proper races not catch-the-rabbit 3-5 lap ones, I hate the whole XP/Credits thing in racing games. Those things may make it a better game for some, and that's great for them - I hope they enjoy it, but they are neutral to negative for me.

The only things that I can see in pCARS3 that I would identify as positives over 2 are the McLaren GT3 & 4, Interlagos and Jerez. And they don't even come close to making up for what has been removed, both in terms of content and realistic motorsport.

I'm glad there's like 3 people who were happy with the pad handling, I really am happy for you and those few. However, even the devs said it was absolute rubbish. You shouldn't have to spend hours or days setting up a controller to play a game.

The whole game argument thing, PC2 didn't sell well, that's abundantly clear in how fast it came down in price, sat on pre owned shelves in bulk very quickly, certainly where I work it sold about 3 copies total Vs Forza 7 which had a queue of over 20 on launch day. They had to do something different, maybe in hindsight they won't have made such drastic changes, a lot of this will be very much motivated by a drive to make sure the game sells much more strongly, thereby making them a better margin than on PC2, if they'd known Codemasters would take them on an effectively secure their future they may not have needed to make such drastic changes.

But one mans dung is another man's gold, its clear from the first announcement this game was going to be divisive in the sim racing community and it has been. Which is fine, the market is pretty strong right now, platform depending, for racing sims and if this saga shows developers anything, its that there is a hungry crowd out there for a full racing and motorsport sim.

Are you listening Reiza? Automobilista 2 console plz.

 

[Wolfe]

I have always defended PCARS2 as a game that you can play with a controller, that it's not hopeless or worthless with one, but there was plenty of room for improvement and it still did not suit everyone. Also, some cars are strangely more sensitive than other similar cars on identical controller settings, making them practically undriveable. I know it was some kind of specific issue because SMS fixed several cars with that problem as the updates were rolling out -- then the updates stopped.

I look forward to being able to pick anything I want to drive instead of keeping a "blacklist" of specific models via paint/livery color, and to have a more natural driving experience that allows me to focus on racing without paying extra attention to steering.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I have always defended PCARS2 as a game that you can play with a controller, that it's not hopeless or worthless with one, but there was plenty of room for improvement and it still did not suit everyone. Also, some cars are strangely more sensitive than other similar cars on identical controller settings, making them practically undriveable. I know it was some kind of specific issue because SMS fixed several cars with that problem as the updates were rolling out -- then the updates stopped.

I look forward to being able to pick anything I want to drive instead of keeping a "blacklist" of specific models via paint/livery color, and to have a more natural driving experience that allows me to focus on racing without paying extra attention to steering.

Yeah it can be played with a pad but it felt so disconnected. And you highlighted one kf the absolute biggest faults, the fact that cars seemed to need different controller settings. That's a sure fire way to put all but the most dedicated players off.

 

[gregc]

I'm glad there's like 3 people who were happy with the pad handling, I really am happy for you and those few. However, even the devs said it was absolute rubbish. You shouldn't have to spend hours or days setting up a controller to play a game.

The whole game argument thing, PC2 didn't sell well, that's abundantly clear in how fast it came down in price, sat on pre owned shelves in bulk very quickly, certainly where I work it sold about 3 copies total Vs Forza 7 which had a queue of over 20 on launch day. They had to do something different, maybe in hindsight they won't have made such drastic changes, a lot of this will be very much motivated by a drive to make sure the game sells much more strongly, thereby making them a better margin than on PC2, if they'd known Codemasters would take them on an effectively secure their future they may not have needed to make such drastic changes.

But one mans dung is another man's gold, its clear from the first announcement this game was going to be divisive in the sim racing community and it has been. Which is fine, the market is pretty strong right now, platform depending, for racing sims and if this saga shows developers anything, its that there is a hungry crowd out there for a full racing and motorsport sim.

Are you listening Reiza? Automobilista 2 console plz.

Personally I've never spent hours on controller settings - I have everything default apart from speed sensitiviy, which I set at 75. That said there's always room for improvement of course, but in the original context (reasons to be buy pCARS3 if you already have 2) pad handling is absolutely not one for me personally.

As for the game argument, agreed, pCARS2 clearly didn't sell anywhere near as well as SMS would have hoped, and I completely understand the change in direction from that point of view. The two things that got my back up about it are pretty much the same as everyone else really - the deceptive choice of name for the game, and the 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' approach of simply removing a whole host of (motorsport) simulation aspects, rather than keeping them for the hardcore but hiding them away from the new target audience behind options.

I have always defended PCARS2 as a game that you can play with a controller, that it's not hopeless or worthless with one, but there was plenty of room for improvement and it still did not suit everyone. Also, some cars are strangely more sensitive than other similar cars on identical controller settings, making them practically undriveable. I know it was some kind of specific issue because SMS fixed several cars with that problem as the updates were rolling out -- then the updates stopped.

I look forward to being able to pick anything I want to drive instead of keeping a "blacklist" of specific models via paint/livery color, and to have a more natural driving experience that allows me to focus on racing without paying extra attention to steering.

Out of curiosity, what cars are on your blacklist? I've yet to come across one that I find unmanageable, but I haven't by any means tried every car in the game.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Personally I've never spent hours on controller settings - I have everything default apart from speed sensitiviy, which I set at 75. That said there's always room for improvement of course, but in the original context (reasons to be buy pCARS3 if you already have 2) pad handling is absolutely not one for me personally.

As for the game argument, agreed, pCARS2 clearly didn't sell anywhere near as well as SMS would have hoped, and I completely understand the change in direction from that point of view. The two things that got my back up about it are pretty much the same as everyone else really - the deceptive choice of name for the game, and the 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' approach of simply removing a whole host of (motorsport) simulation aspects, rather than keeping them for the hardcore but hiding them away from the new target audience behind options.



Out of curiosity, what cars are on your blacklist? I've yet to come across one that I find unmanageable, but I haven't by any means tried every car in the game.

I'm still of the opinion that name aside, the devs social media chit chat has done more damage to the game than simply the direction.

 

[FrankieStail]

lol coming from a spectrum it must have been truly incredible, but in the context of other driving games this generation it was lacking... fingers crossed this time will be better...

Your not wrong, to me the ds4 in pc1 felt fantastic coming from a wobbly joystick.
For the pad users I only hope that they’ve truly improved the handling without too much dumbing down of physics to achieve this.

 

[David Wright]

As for the game argument, agreed, pCARS2 clearly didn't sell anywhere near as well as SMS would have hoped, and I completely understand the change in direction from that point of view.

On PC, PC2 seems to have sold well. We have the advantage of steam giving concurrent player numbers (PC2 matched PC1) and it is consistently in the top 10 best selling racing games even though it is still sold at full price (£45). When on sale it is usually in the top 3.

While there were no doubt a number of issues as to why PC2 might not have sold so well on console such as quality of gamepad control, releasing just weeks before Gran Turismo Sport and Forza 7 can't have helped. The original Project Cars had the advantage of releasing 4 months before Forza 6 and years before GT Sport. The timing of PC3s release is also much better in that respect.

 

[gregc]

On PC, PC2 seems to have sold well. We have the advantage of steam giving concurrent player numbers (PC2 matched PC1) and it is consistently in the top 10 best selling racing games even though it is still sold at full price (£45). When on sale it is usually in the top 3.

While there were no doubt a number of issues as to why PC2 might not have sold so well on console such as quality of gamepad control, releasing just weeks before Gran Turismo Sport and Forza 7 can't have helped. The original Project Cars had the advantage of releasing 4 months before Forza 6 and years before GT Sport. The timing of PC3s release is also much better in that respect.

Steam Spy isn't totally accurate, but according to that site pCARS2 sold about half of what the first game did (and any inaccuracy should theoretically be similar for both titles). So it may have sold ok on PC, I obviously don't know what SMS expectations were, but it's nowhere near pCARS1.

 

[David Wright]

Steam Spy isn't totally accurate, but according to that site pCARS2 sold about half of what the first game did (and any inaccuracy should theoretically be similar for both titles). So it may have sold ok on PC, I obviously don't know what SMS expectations were, but it's nowhere near pCARS1.

View attachment 947664

As you say its not very accurate, plus PC1 could have sold 1.1 million copies and PC2 0.9 million and you would get the SteamSpy results. What is more accurate are concurrent players and PC2 matched PC1. If it only sold half as many copies you would not expect the same number of players.

 

[Wolfe]

Out of curiosity, what cars are on your blacklist? I've yet to come across one that I find unmanageable, but I haven't by any means tried every car in the game.

Sure. I suppose I should explain that half the reason I marked them was to remind myself to check on them after updates. They're not all as dramatic as the Radbul or GT86 RB, and other cars can be sensitive too, but these are a few that seem "off" in terms of sensitivity in a similar way to how the OMSE RX Lite used to drive. The RX Lite was the first car I noticed when it was changed.

By now, the Skyline GT-R Group A is the only other one I can remember for sure getting fixed, but I assume there could be more I didn't catch (or can't remember now). I also haven't driven everything, of course.

With my settings, friendlier cars are fairly sedate with their steering -- for some, almost only just responsive enough to keep up. So if you then hop into one of these back-to-back, the difference is quite striking. The killer symptom is snap-overcorrection from trying to countersteer -- what I might call "Gran Turismo 4 syndrome". As some older members here would know, that trait drives me right up the wall.

Acura NSX
Aston Martin DB11
BMW 1M Coupe
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (compare against the Camaro ZL-1; big difference)
Mazda MX-5 Radbul (kinda understandable on paper, but totally over-the-top in practice)
Toyota GT86 Rocket Bunny Street

Sitting with my laptop and PS4, I'm tempted to sit here and try to catalog more, but the GT86 RB is a perfect example to try and you should see what I mean.

 

[Tired Tyres]

My only guesses would be Le Mans and Spa once negotiations go through.

We saw the car list, it would be silly to have all those Le Mans legends without Le Mans itself.

As silly as getting Le Mans and no pitstops?

 

[MagpieRacer]

On PC, PC2 seems to have sold well. We have the advantage of steam giving concurrent player numbers (PC2 matched PC1) and it is consistently in the top 10 best selling racing games even though it is still sold at full price (£45). When on sale it is usually in the top 3.

While there were no doubt a number of issues as to why PC2 might not have sold so well on console such as quality of gamepad control, releasing just weeks before Gran Turismo Sport and Forza 7 can't have helped. The original Project Cars had the advantage of releasing 4 months before Forza 6 and years before GT Sport. The timing of PC3s release is also much better in that respect.

Relatively speaking the PC market is small compared to the console market. Plus the sim market is stronger on PC anyway.

 

[FrankieStail]

Serious question for pad users,
Which, if any, semi serious sims have decent game pad handling and don’t give up anything in the physics department to achieve this?

Just wondering if it’s actually possible to do without invisible hand of god steering the car half the time.

 

[Rob192005]

It took me 5 minutes to set up my controller for PC2 and had no issues with it whatsoever.

 

[gregc]

Serious question for pad users,
Which, if any, semi serious sims have decent game pad handling and don’t give up anything in the physics department to achieve this?

Just wondering if it’s actually possible to do without invisible hand of god steering the car half the time.

For me, and I think it's important to make that distinction up front, other than pCARS2 - AMS2, unsurprisingly - it's basically the same as pCARS2. ACC is ok but pretty twitchy out of the box. Assetto Corsa is dreadful by default but I found some "ok" settings somewhere (may even have been on here actually). rFactor2 is even worse than AC by default, so far I've only got it to "just about driveable" but haven't spent much time with it.

 

[evldave333]

Serious question for pad users,
Which, if any, semi serious sims have decent game pad handling and don’t give up anything in the physics department to achieve this?

Just wondering if it’s actually possible to do without invisible hand of god steering the car half the time.

I think your mixing up assists with physics... Its apples and oranges as an analogue stick has less travel than a turning wheels degrees of motion, pads need a certain amount of deadzone otherwise they become a twitchy mess lol hopefully PC3 offers a workable solution this time. Im not getting into a debate about what is classed as a sim, but in gameplay terms F1 / GTS / Dirt 2.0 / Wreckfest all offer good pad solutions. The thing with accuracy and physics they are great when matched with the original control set ups ie wheel / pedals, but they can be lost in translation when using a device that has limited inputs like a game pad. Its quite an art to calibrate any control set up. Im hopeful PC3 works for all types or offers the customisation to get it were you want it (and has a good baseline set up to start off from too!).

 

[gregc]

I think your mixing up assists with physics... Its apples and oranges as an analogue stick has less travel than a turning wheels degrees of motion, pads need a certain amount of deadzone otherwise they become a twitchy mess lol hopefully PC3 offers a workable solution this time. Im not getting into a debate about what is classed as a sim, but in gameplay terms F1 / GTS / Dirt 2.0 / Wreckfest all offer good pad solutions. The thing with accuracy and physics they are great when matched with the original control set ups ie wheel / pedals, but they can be lost in translation when using a device that has limited inputs like a game pad. Its quite an art to calibrate any control set up. Im hopeful PC3 works for all types or offers the customisation to get it were you want it (and has a good baseline set up to start off from too!).

I read in one of the developer blogs that they have removed all pad settings. That's showing an admirable level of confidence in their pad setup, but has massive potential to backfire...

 

[MagpieRacer]

Serious question for pad users,
Which, if any, semi serious sims have decent game pad handling and don’t give up anything in the physics department to achieve this?

Just wondering if it’s actually possible to do without invisible hand of god steering the car half the time.

Semi serious and not giving up anything is slightly contradicting. Semi serious implies sacrifices have ready been made surely? Pad handling needs some form of smoothing or damping to recreate a smooth and controllable feel, games that let you tweak parameters to get there, but games that sacrifice this or don't offer enough adjustment of it feel twitchy and rough to play, which is the experience I get with PC2. And ACC to a point but some of that can be dialled out using lower sensitivity.

Anyway, ACC achieves decent pad handling, again with a few tweaks. Dirt Rally 2.0 as already mentioned, F1 2020, the Forza Motorsport series,

 

[Wolfe]

Serious question for pad users,
Which, if any, semi serious sims have decent game pad handling and don’t give up anything in the physics department to achieve this?

Just wondering if it’s actually possible to do without invisible hand of god steering the car half the time.

My list:
Enthusia Professional Racing
Sébastien Loeb Rally Evo
Wreckfest
Baja: Edge of Control
Project CARS 3 (probably)

EPR has some reputation for being unplayable with the DS2, but I offer that as evidence that it isn't dumbed down, if that makes sense. It employs very damped steering that requires you to anticipate maneuvers a bit, as well as more intelligent countersteer and contextual turn-in than in PCARS2. My method involves quick taps in both directions for any adjustments -- it's that slow, which also makes it predictable and comfortable with practice.

In a way, Wreckfest is perhaps the best example, because you're expected to maintain control of mangled big-engined RWD vehicles over mixed surfaces and jumps while other cars attempt to ram and spin you.


As for PCARS3, I don't believe anything it has given up was for the sake of making the game more playable with a controller, per se. To the extent that it is about accessibility (I suspect SMS also found it quicker and easier to polish), it's just to make it more accessible in general -- not requiring players to think about cold tires, brake heat, brake ducts, proper tire compounds for the weather, fuel/pit strategies, or making sure you got the tires you expected from a pit stop.

 

[Nacho Libre]

Serious question for pad users,
Which, if any, semi serious sims have decent game pad handling and don’t give up anything in the physics department to achieve this?

Just wondering if it’s actually possible to do without invisible hand of god steering the car half the time.

If a player is content with merely mashing the throttle/brake (and using automatic transmission...) then I think no "serious" o "semi-serious" game will do...
I like FM6/FM7 with no assists (traction control, ABS, stability control) with 0/100 deadzones, normal steering (sim is twitchy and meant for the wheel.) For PC2 I use settings suggested in these forums with some adjustments of mine. Even GRID, if driven with some subtlety, can be rewarding somewhat. DIRT 4 is superfun and feels substantial even if I play in gamer mode.
Call me crazy, but I expect PC3 to feel like a mix of the strengths of FM6 and PC2.