PURE | Chevy Camaro Cup | Series Champion: Dr_Watson

[Dragonwhisky]

Turns out the car isn't broke in. thought I ran this with a bob at laguna 90 lapper last week. Must have restored from backup before backing up after this car was broke in. 👎

Many thanks to CSLACR and OwensRacing for sharing the tunes. Owens' tune already shed a full second + off my PB. Will be testing/practicing with CSL's tomorrow evening. Bob's re-breaking in the car now.

Owens' tune is amazingly stable in turn 9 but I still don't trust the car there yet. Will take a few more stints. Turn 6 still gets the pucker factor high. Still haven't figured out how you gents snap the car into that turn without sending it off track or spinning. Sometimes I hit it well and carry 90+mph through it, but more often than not, I miss the turn in point and have to coast through to keep it on the tarmac. Very annoying.

 

[Müle]

well... it's not backward from real life, it's just that GT doesn't model any of the down-sides to having a negative rake (like the big ball of air that mark webber's you on the mulsanne).
So in GT all positive rake does is add understeer by shifting the center of gravity and weight balance forward. Doesn't seem to have any effect on aero or suspension dynamics.. just weight transfer and center of gravity.

so it's the "Real-Simplified Driving Simulator"

Something I've noticed from tuning Nascar's in this game is that having a high front, low rear, while also making the car oversteer, gives you a few extra MPH down the straights. Almost like lowering your rear aero.

 

[CSLACR]

The upside to a higher front/lower rear is the extra speed,(as Mule mentions) the rotation it gives can be achieved by other means.(Usually, not always)
The downside to a higher front than rear is it seems to make cars more unstable, and a lower rear means less grip.

I agree with Doc that it's not exactly backwards from real life, but the end result in what you have do to make handling adjustments is often exactly backwards from real life.
It's not mechanically backwards in the system, but it's missing some pieces of the physics puzzle that alter the end results greatly.

 

[OwensRacing]

You guys can have theories. I'm convinced many items are just simply accidentally reversed.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Something I've noticed from tuning Nascar's in this game is that having a high front, low rear, while also making the car oversteer, gives you a few extra MPH down the straights. Almost like lowering your rear aero.

Wouldn't changing the AoA of the car and thus the rear wing change downforce values?

 

[Dr_Watson]

Something I've noticed from tuning Nascar's in this game is that having a high front, low rear, while also making the car oversteer, gives you a few extra MPH down the straights. Almost like lowering your rear aero.

LOL... that's because you ARE lowering the rear downforce. Raising the front and lowering the rear moves the rear wing down out of the clean airflow. Without getting into too much nerdy fluid dynamics your aerodynamic elements need laminar flow to work at optimum efficiency. Just like "dirty air" from the car in front will wash out the front wing on a Formula 1 car, your car is creating it's own "dirty air" which you're lowering the rear wing element into with negative rake. This is why race cars stick the wing as high up in the air as the rule book will let them get away with. If you can't get it above the roof-line you compensate with some positive rake.

You guys can have theories. I'm convinced many items are just simply accidentally reversed.

Feel free to take the 'blue pill' the end results are the same.

Though if you want to take the red one I'm 99% certain that the game engine is setup correctly the Playstation just doesn't have the resources to have a real-time physics model so the programmers simplified a lot of the aerodynamics and interactions between components. They also gave us "relative" adjustments which creates even more uncertainty. If you're setting the ride height at +1, -5 the first 4mm of that net 6mm adjustment may just be removing the 'natural' rake the car came with.

 

[carracerptp]

LOL... that's because you ARE lowering the rear downforce. Raising the front and lowering the rear moves the rear wing down out of the clean airflow. Without getting into too much nerdy fluid dynamics your aerodynamic elements need laminar flow to work at optimum efficiency. Just like "dirty air" from the car in front will wash out the front wing on a Formula 1 car, your car is creating it's own "dirty air" which you're lowering the rear wing element into with negative rake. This is why race cars stick the wing as high up in the air as the rule book will let them get away with. If you can't get it above the roof-line you compensate with some positive rake.

Stock cars don't have wings, they have a simple "Spoiler" glued to the trunk. So it's would really just change the angle of attack. So it all depends how simply the game hands lift coefficients.

Though if you want to take the red one I'm 99% certain that the game engine is setup correctly the Playstation just doesn't have the resources to have a real-time physics model so the programmers simplified a lot of the aerodynamics and interactions between components. They also gave us "relative" adjustments which creates even more uncertainty. If you're setting the ride height at +1, -5 the first 4mm of that net 6mm adjustment may just be removing the 'natural' rake the car came with.

GT5 from my testing really doesn't "simulate" that much, almost everything is from a pre-mapped "physics" curve (Like a really good "Lookup" table).

 

[Dr_Watson]

GT5 [...] (Like a really good "Lookup" table).

Exactly my thoughts as well. It's certainly not doing real-time calculations the way a high-end PC sim does. It does a commendable job as the "Real Driving Estimator" though.

 

[CSLACR]

Just to note that cars with an aero rating of "0/0" also increase top speed from the same setup.
As far as I know, downforce or not, it would greatly reduce your top speed because air would build in massive proportions underneath the front end and the vehicle would have to lift the front end off the ground once it reached a high enough speed.

It is what it is though, I stopped worrying about the differences between real-world and this game a while ago, we're just not there yet, maybe GT6.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Practice room open;

1472-6399-8451-1927-3520​

CSL tune, final gear at 2.496 with ITS=180. PB 1:25.024. So close to breaking in to the 24s. Had several laps this session where I would have hit that mark but screwed up one thing or another and lost time. May take a few clicks out of final. Hitting redline at the end of front straight but sometimes I go ahead and shift to 6th just before braking point into to turn 2. Getting better at hitting the turn at 6. This car handles much like Owens' but this tune seems to accelerate quicker and occasionally I hear the engine pull down and grunt hard coming out of turn 2. I take this to mean it's hooking up well and it's very satisfying.

My first RMed '10 Camaro is fully modded and I have to say I like the exhaust note this one plays, without the supercharger, much better than the old one.

 

[CSLACR]

This car is just too 🤬 amazing.
Signed up. Room still open?

 

[OwensRacing]

Qualified:

CSL - 1:22.304 Clean


---------------------------------------

Refreshed tune. 22.9's Personal Best so far.

 

[Mac K]

Mule, its alright if I only make a few races right?

Edit: just signed up part time.

 

[CSLACR]

Well that's way looser than mine now, I guess I'll have to try loosening mine up and see what happens. It feels like the rear will come out if I loosen it at all though. Mostly in the corkscrew-finish area.
Plus my tire wear seems about dead even, and that always makes me happy.

Very solid car out of the box.

Trans:
Reset to default
Set top speed slider to minimum (left)
3951
3070
2450
2020
1680
1420
Final: 2.270


LSD: 9/18/5

Suspension:
0/9
9.4/10.6
6/6
5/5
3/3

2.4/1.6
-0.03/0.00

Brake Balance: 5/5

Updated. PB of 1:22.133

 

[Litchi]

Qualified:

CSL - 1:22.304 Clean

Quali for what? Have you read the rules guys?

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Quali for what? Have you read the rules guys?

Yeah, sorry. I read the OP. Completely forgot about the pre-race qual session, so didn't say anything when CSL asked to qual. Just queued up the race and let 'er rip.


My bad.

 

[OwensRacing]

I was not sure. So when asked I watched.

Well we got ourselves a quick time to chase anyway.

 

[Müle]

 

[CSLACR]

Quali for what? Have you read the rules guys?

No.

That's okay, I think I can hit a 21 for Q if I try again. (No jk, 22.3 was good)

-*NEW* Track boundaries have been altered slightly. You must keep at least 2 wheels on black tarmac at all times (Any exceptions will be pointed out in the race information before each race).

This is probably asking the obvious, but for example, the last turn at Laguna has tarmac/rumble/tarmac, I assume it's two wheels on tarmac inside the rumble in that case?

 

[Müle]

In the sake of consistency, yes.

Personally, I'd have no problem running wide there, but if I allow it, then I'd have to allow running wide everywhere else, then it gets out of hand.

On that topic, though, that random rumble strip on the left hand side of the track going up Rahal towards the Corkscrew, pretend that it doesn't exist.

 

[GenkoMax]

Already know how this one's going to go.
Can't go fast on this track to save me life.

 

[OwensRacing]

Already know how this one's going to go.
Can't go fast on this track to save me life.

Do a practice room? I'll offer any help I can. Not the fastest but willing to help you find some speed.

 

[CSLACR]

In the sake of consistency, yes.

Personally, I'd have no problem running wide there, but if I allow it, then I'd have to allow running wide everywhere else, then it gets out of hand.

On that topic, though, that random rumble strip on the left hand side of the track going up Rahal towards the Corkscrew, pretend that it doesn't exist.

Already done. Though I don't think there's a need to touch the rumbles with the inside tire there even.

 

[GenkoMax]

Do a practice room? I'll offer any help I can. Not the fastest but willing to help you find some speed.

If you wouldn't mind.
I believe it's my line that is costing the majority of my time.

 

[OwensRacing]

If you wouldn't mind.
I believe it's my line that is costing the majority of my time.

I'm on now. Set up a room and I'll join.



Edit:

PURE ROOM CLOSED:

1472-6681-3200-9598-1095

 

[GenkoMax]

Sorry I missed it. I was tending to the adoption of some of our puppies.....
extremely manly

 

[OwensRacing]

Sorry I missed it. I was tending to the adoption of some of our puppies.....
extremely manly

What kind of puppies?

Maybe tomorrow. Saying after 5pm EST.

 

[Litchi]

Room open: 1472 6681 3630 4565 3084

EDIT: Closed.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Room open: 1472 6681 3630 4565 3084

EDIT: Closed.

Bummer. I am just about to log in.

Room open;

1472-6118-3615-5261-4709​

closed for GTA Finals!

 

[Dr_Watson]

I might get some practice in between GTA rounds... but not during.