Question about Driving Etiquette
- Thread starter MasterDriver
- 50 comments
- 4,132 views
- 1,134
- NapoleonMikey
seeing as these are sports cars (except for the F1) i myself try to follow ALMS rules which state you only get 1 move to defend you position if they attempt to pass.
HERE IS WHAT THE SCCA RULEBOOK and Skip Barber Racing school say about the rights to a line:
"The responsibility for the decision to pass another care rests with the overtaking driver." If , at the brake point, your car is dead alongside the car your are trying to pass, the overtaken car is obliged to leave room for you and not simply turn into you at the turn-in point. If, however, you're trying to pass but you're not quite alongside, as in having the front wheels up the the middle of the other car at the break point, you haven't made the pass; it's your responsibility to get out of the way of the other car and yield the line in order to avoid a collision. The other driver might yield and give you room at the apex, but you can't count on it. He may not have even seen you if he hasn't been looking in his mirrors. If you're not alongside, you've got to expect to be "chopped", which is the racing term for another driver pulling across the nose of your car going to the apex.
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Online drivers will likely chop you even more often than AI drivers. And they will late break and crash into your side and blame you, because they saw an opening "after" your turn-in and went barrelling right through your line instead of backing off.
If you're not even at the turn-in point for the other car, please everyone, back off and wait 'til you've earned the line and we'll all have a better racing experience :-)
Some people consider your bumper up to the front wheel or even door as "even". I don't, but at least at the front wheel or door the guy in front can see you. He can close the door once per straight as long as you aren't even. The AI does this all the time and most drivers blame the AI. I have very few issues with the AI in either PD or Forza, because I expect them to close the door and they have the right to do it. I back off.
I see a lot of blocking posts in this thread. One block per straight, but many think swerving is OK. It's not. Real race cars cost money and lives. You need to hold your line.
"The responsibility for the decision to pass another care rests with the overtaking driver." If , at the brake point, your car is dead alongside the car your are trying to pass, the overtaken car is obliged to leave room for you and not simply turn into you at the turn-in point. If, however, you're trying to pass but you're not quite alongside, as in having the front wheels up the the middle of the other car at the break point, you haven't made the pass; it's your responsibility to get out of the way of the other car and yield the line in order to avoid a collision. The other driver might yield and give you room at the apex, but you can't count on it. He may not have even seen you if he hasn't been looking in his mirrors. If you're not alongside, you've got to expect to be "chopped", which is the racing term for another driver pulling across the nose of your car going to the apex.
==================
Online drivers will likely chop you even more often than AI drivers. And they will late break and crash into your side and blame you, because they saw an opening "after" your turn-in and went barrelling right through your line instead of backing off.
If you're not even at the turn-in point for the other car, please everyone, back off and wait 'til you've earned the line and we'll all have a better racing experience :-)
Some people consider your bumper up to the front wheel or even door as "even". I don't, but at least at the front wheel or door the guy in front can see you. He can close the door once per straight as long as you aren't even. The AI does this all the time and most drivers blame the AI. I have very few issues with the AI in either PD or Forza, because I expect them to close the door and they have the right to do it. I back off.
I see a lot of blocking posts in this thread. One block per straight, but many think swerving is OK. It's not. Real race cars cost money and lives. You need to hold your line.
- 107
- GTP_PlusP
This is from the Live For Speed online manual, but can be applied to almost any racing sim/game. These "rules" are generally accepted and utilized by the majority of any racing community. Feel free to agree or disagree with them though.
Corner Rights
CR-1: You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corners turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. Substantial overlap means at least that the front of your car is up to say the drivers position in the ahead car - and thats at the very least. You probably should have more overlap in some circumstances. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in.
CR-2: If sufficient overlap is established before the turn-in point, then the behind driver has the right to sufficient side room. The ahead driver must then leave sufficient side room for the behind driver.
CR-2A: The car on the outside has the right to outside room all the way through the corner right up to the exit point. They should not be squeezed against the outside towards the exit point.
CR-2B: The car on the inside has the right to inside room all the way through the corner - right up to the exit point. They should not be squeezed against the inside towards the apex area. The ahead driver can still battle for the position of course but must do so while maintaining side room for the behind driver. The practice of going up the inside of an ahead car after they have already turned in, and where there was no established substantial overlap before the turn-in point, is sometimes referred to as barge passing, ( I.e. you barge your way past ). Understand that barge passing is a high risk manoeuvre for both you and others. You have no rights what-so-ever as a barge passer. Should you cause an accident from a barge passing manoeuvre youll be in a defenceless position should you be protested?
CR-3: Where an ahead driver has clearly made a sufficient error to warrant a passing move a behind driver may attack their position, with due caution and care, regardless of whether there was any pre-existing overlap. E.g. - If the ahead driver brakes too late and drifts out wide of the apex and then has to reduce speed etc. This would be a valid passing opportunity regardless of whether there was pre-existing overlap. However, there is still substantial responsibility on the overtaking driver to take all necessary care to avoid contact. Small errors by the ahead driver may not be sufficient to justify an attacking passing move however. Just because the ahead drivers gets a bit out of shape at times doesnt give you an automatic right to pass uncontested by them or a right to room. You still have to judge if their error provides sufficient opportunity for a safe pass to take place.
Defensive Driving
DD-1: Leading cars have the right to choose their own line down a straight. They may make one move to block an attacking car to protect their position while on a straight - but then must maintain that position as long as the attacker remains affected by their position. Then, naturally, as they approach the next corner, they can of course return to the racing line of their choice for the corner.
DD-2: Leading cars have the right to take their line of choice through corners. E.G. they may drive a defensive line around the inside of a corner to protect their position, thereby forcing an attacking driver to try to pass around the outside. This is not blocking and is part of normal racing etiquette.
Corner Rights
CR-1: You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corners turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. Substantial overlap means at least that the front of your car is up to say the drivers position in the ahead car - and thats at the very least. You probably should have more overlap in some circumstances. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in.
CR-2: If sufficient overlap is established before the turn-in point, then the behind driver has the right to sufficient side room. The ahead driver must then leave sufficient side room for the behind driver.
CR-2A: The car on the outside has the right to outside room all the way through the corner right up to the exit point. They should not be squeezed against the outside towards the exit point.
CR-2B: The car on the inside has the right to inside room all the way through the corner - right up to the exit point. They should not be squeezed against the inside towards the apex area. The ahead driver can still battle for the position of course but must do so while maintaining side room for the behind driver. The practice of going up the inside of an ahead car after they have already turned in, and where there was no established substantial overlap before the turn-in point, is sometimes referred to as barge passing, ( I.e. you barge your way past ). Understand that barge passing is a high risk manoeuvre for both you and others. You have no rights what-so-ever as a barge passer. Should you cause an accident from a barge passing manoeuvre youll be in a defenceless position should you be protested?
CR-3: Where an ahead driver has clearly made a sufficient error to warrant a passing move a behind driver may attack their position, with due caution and care, regardless of whether there was any pre-existing overlap. E.g. - If the ahead driver brakes too late and drifts out wide of the apex and then has to reduce speed etc. This would be a valid passing opportunity regardless of whether there was pre-existing overlap. However, there is still substantial responsibility on the overtaking driver to take all necessary care to avoid contact. Small errors by the ahead driver may not be sufficient to justify an attacking passing move however. Just because the ahead drivers gets a bit out of shape at times doesnt give you an automatic right to pass uncontested by them or a right to room. You still have to judge if their error provides sufficient opportunity for a safe pass to take place.
Defensive Driving
DD-1: Leading cars have the right to choose their own line down a straight. They may make one move to block an attacking car to protect their position while on a straight - but then must maintain that position as long as the attacker remains affected by their position. Then, naturally, as they approach the next corner, they can of course return to the racing line of their choice for the corner.
DD-2: Leading cars have the right to take their line of choice through corners. E.G. they may drive a defensive line around the inside of a corner to protect their position, thereby forcing an attacking driver to try to pass around the outside. This is not blocking and is part of normal racing etiquette.
- 1,246
- belgium
- bertvw
In formula one it's like thizs for over ten years now. You can come of yr line to defend the position 1 time, after that it's may the best man win. If it happens again a penalty comes in for the one who's fault it was. ---> penalty pitstop!
Just general driving etiquette is what's really needed. Give your opponent room, and hope he returns the favor, don't block more than once, respect others lines, and don't drive too aggressively. I mean really, that's all there is to it. If you're burning up the track right behind me, you bet I'm going to yield to you. Why? Because there's absolutely no logic in blocking you and potentially screwing us both out of a decent finish. That happens more often than anything, someone is constantly blocking the man (or woman) behind him, and the other person isn't going to give up that easily, and why should they? I mean really, you're the one who refuses to back down when you should be, so the person trying to pass by becomes more aggressive, and at some point it's almost certain one or both of you will be in a sand trap because of it. If it's the last straight on the last lap, OK, it's more forgiveable. You haven't been blocking the entire race, and now it's victory lane, no, you shouldn't have to give up your win in that instance, but if you're bobbing and weaving the entire time just to stop someone from a legit pass, I feel no sympathy when they've finally had enough of your *you know what* and just take you down. I don't agree with dirty racing, but I know when someone is right and wrong.
Also, if you're an aggressive driver, don't go crying when someone decides to start pressing you. If you have a bad habit of, as poster above referred to it, barge-passing, don't expect me to go out of my way to accomodate you. I'm going to stick my line, and I don't care if it results in you being off the track. You want to pass on the inside, fine, do it after the apex and make sure you're fast about it, because I use the entire track, and if you're at my side when I'm trying to set up for the next time, so be it, gravel pit for you. Now if you can fast out and be in front of me, please do, but if you can't pull that off, pick another moment to pass, because as I said, I'm not going to inconvenience myself because of your aggressive actions. I like to race good and clean, but if you're not willing to meet me halfway, I'll continue racing my best but I'll be that much less likely to do things like yield to you, or give you the pass in a corner.
It's all case by case for me. If you're driving far too slow, I'll pass you in a turn, but I won't be reckless about it. Get up there and in front, don't screw around with it, and if you're unsure, it's best not to do it. I think of it like reality, and ask myself "Now if I were a pro racer, and this happened on a track, would I normally do this? Would this be extremely hazardous to myself, or the other driver? If he did it to me, would I be upset with his driving methods?" and depending on my answer, I go from there.
Also, if you're an aggressive driver, don't go crying when someone decides to start pressing you. If you have a bad habit of, as poster above referred to it, barge-passing, don't expect me to go out of my way to accomodate you. I'm going to stick my line, and I don't care if it results in you being off the track. You want to pass on the inside, fine, do it after the apex and make sure you're fast about it, because I use the entire track, and if you're at my side when I'm trying to set up for the next time, so be it, gravel pit for you. Now if you can fast out and be in front of me, please do, but if you can't pull that off, pick another moment to pass, because as I said, I'm not going to inconvenience myself because of your aggressive actions. I like to race good and clean, but if you're not willing to meet me halfway, I'll continue racing my best but I'll be that much less likely to do things like yield to you, or give you the pass in a corner.
It's all case by case for me. If you're driving far too slow, I'll pass you in a turn, but I won't be reckless about it. Get up there and in front, don't screw around with it, and if you're unsure, it's best not to do it. I think of it like reality, and ask myself "Now if I were a pro racer, and this happened on a track, would I normally do this? Would this be extremely hazardous to myself, or the other driver? If he did it to me, would I be upset with his driving methods?" and depending on my answer, I go from there.
Yes, and I think PD should include some lessons or Licenses to address that as there are so many casual gamers who aren't going to read the Clean Racers Club Rules that was mentioned in the "Slow In/Fast Out" thread by PlusP357.
I'd said something similar previously here https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2979317#post2979317
- 1,446
- MustangXS
- MustangXS
The unwritten rule is that you can only block once. By blocking, I mean crossing over the track to the inside line. You can only do it once per every track segment (i.e. once you've gone by a corner, you can do it 1 more time, pass another corner, etc.).
Moving the inside line (which forces the person behind to try outside line) and then moving back to outside line to block that too is against the unwritten rule. Once you're on the inside line you better stay there. What I described is also called weaving.
The other unwritten rule is also that once you're 2/3-3/4 car length up to the inside line, then the other person should give you the inside line in the corner (assuming you both brake evenly). This rule is where some people agree and disagree. With me (playing LFS online as well as Forza 2 with my friends), if another person is more than half a car length up to me, then I will give them the inside line in the corner.
Moving the inside line (which forces the person behind to try outside line) and then moving back to outside line to block that too is against the unwritten rule. Once you're on the inside line you better stay there. What I described is also called weaving.
The other unwritten rule is also that once you're 2/3-3/4 car length up to the inside line, then the other person should give you the inside line in the corner (assuming you both brake evenly). This rule is where some people agree and disagree. With me (playing LFS online as well as Forza 2 with my friends), if another person is more than half a car length up to me, then I will give them the inside line in the corner.
so you are racing online and someone faster is coming from behind; what do you do?
- block them no matter what
- block them as far as it's reasonably safe to do so, i.e. not forcing them ram into you
- make one blocking move and then let them pass (IIRC that's the rule in formula1 and perhaps elsewhere)
- let them pass at once
Christian_C
Premium
- 1,499
- Stoke, UK
- GTP_Christian_C
2. <- It's online RACING after all.
- 1,099
- Sydney
- oni_chan
+ 1
Im with G.T.Ace on this. I'll only attempt a block if they are slightly faster. i never block on a straight, only through corners (i.e holding the fastest racing line and corner entry). Its racing after all.
However if they are alot faster then me. Ill open doors for them to pass in corners so i can follow and improve my overal lap times.
RussRobit
Premium
- 355
- GTP_RussRobit
I think if you're not sure of the rules, refer to the rules found here.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=111241
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=111241
- 1,090
- Australia
- OnlineGT
+2
This is an important topic, there's nothing worse than being stuck in back-traffic, because someone is desperately blocking you from passing, even though you obviously have a greater pace.
Besides I think it is alot more fun to the faster driver past, then driving as hard as you can to keep with them.
This is sometimes when you pull some of your fastest laps...I think it has something to do with driving motor-vation.
:tup:R*
- 2,044
- GTP_DaddyVDUB
- R U Kidding
I see nothing wrong with 1 attempt at a safe block,that is before they are polishing your rear bumper. If the car is much faster, as in you just blew a turn and are off pace,then let them pass.But in a situation where your are running at a good pace you have to protect your spot, you cant just pull out of the racing line everytime someone is behind you.
- 366
- Cashwars
Am i going to win loads of money, get a new racing contract, have women throw themselves at me, well apart from the missus and thats more of a trip....NO. The only defensive driving i try to do is when come out of corner i may take a different racing line so the car behind needs to look to catch my draft. I found that if i am caught by another racer chances are my lap time will drop as i try to defend my position, meaning slower and maybe a lot less carefull driver can catch me. So i prefer to yeild when safe to do so, maybe by coming off racing line making it obvious that they can pass or lift of the gas slightly. I think it's better to let them pass use their draft and watch their lines (especially if in same car) as like Drama_Kyd says, a lot can be learned by following a faster driver than keeping one behind and hopefully thelap times don't drop to much meaning less chance of more cars catching you.
- 2,376
- Stockholm, Swe
- GTP_Anghammarad
I seldom block intentionally. My erratic driving may seem like blocking to the driver behind me but it is no tactics from me. If I am ahead on the last lap at Suzuka I may stay to the right coming up to Casio but that's about it.
that's one hell of an argument
very well putof course, you also don't risk being killed...
