R34 vs. Grudge Match Round 1

risingson77

risingson77

4,036
OK, here goes! The showdown between West and East begins again today. Here are the drivers -

mr_pushrod - R34

12 Sec. Civic - Z06

PunkRock - Z06

R34-Initial D - presumably in an R34, but not confirmed - PM me, won't you? :)

No NOS 4 Me - Z06

FuryX21 - Z06

axletramp - R34

Robin - Z06

GoKents - Z06

Late Entry zak88lx - driving the R34, despite the fact that he drives a Mustang. :P

risingson77 - I drove a Z06 last time, so I'll drive an R34 this time. :)

Let's have a nice clean fight! So, stay off the grass. You are allowed to use rumble strips, but no corner-cutting, 'kay? No TCS or ASM either. :)

The track will be:

Grand Valley Speedway​

The deadline will be Friday, February 21 2003. Please PM me your best time (don't trouble yourself with splits) by midnight EST.
 
Arcade cars, I don't think TCS or ASM was allowed last time but you'd have to ask risingson about that.
 
I'm pretty sure we'll see a lot of American made fiberglass up front... ;)
 
Yea, Im working on my times now, and after racing both cars out of curiosity, I just might have to say the R34 is faster.

Of course, I cant say for sure, but like I said, Im working on it.

Im thinking about doing 10 laps with each and then calculating an average for each.

Im gonna keep track of fastest laps for each also, and maybe even theoretical fastest laps if I can check the times though out the different sections.

Either way, both have advantages and disadvantages.

I believe the R34 has better turn in under braking, but I believe the corvette has better turning under acceleration.

Lets just see how everything works out.

And will our ratings as drivers be accounted for in this?
 
I meant that in the official olr thread at the top started by bb, there was a requirment to do the arcade mode race on midfield with the lancer evo 7.

He would have the racers pm their times and then eventually we would all get ratings... beginer, amatuer, pro.

I will go ahead and get my best time and leave the other car alone for now, but I am going to check the R34 out after this is over, because I want some personal confirmation of possible times people claim.

I also would like to know if your going to post the best lap times we all give and when your going to do it?
 
Well its cool since I talked to bb and he said that he hasnt figured out exactly what times should go where in the rating system... so it seems like I should bring up this point...

If a good driver gets time "A" with the corvette, but a great driver gets time "B" with the skyline, and time "B" beats time "A," wouldnt it be possible that the corvette was still a better car, yet the drivers skewed the testing.

I dont really care either way because I am confident that the Z06 will win no matter what the drivers abilities are.

Btw, what were the results of the last competition?
 
I am currently sending my PM to Risingson. I have no idea why its not sending, it just keeps waiting and waiting. I think I sent it twice as well!


Well, I am not going to tell my lap times because I dont want anyone to get any ideas.


Like everyone else has probably done, I attempted it in both cars. Although I'm still officially a Corvette entered racer.


Anyways, when I took the Z06 out, it took me 3 laps to get one solid lap that I felt was trouble free. I didnt want to keep doing laps forever, because there comes a point where you've acheived, basically a perfect lap. And then it doesnt exhibit your available skills, just the skill of the car.

But for the R34, I did 1 lap and I felt it was good enough. I have to say, the R34 is obviously much more predictable and WAY easier to drive fast. But it isn't nearly as fast as my slowest lap with the Z06.

The R34 does turn MUCH better than I remembered, as I was anticipating an understeering 4WD. Not so in the R34, it swings around very nicely and best of all, exits the tightest corners with ease, and best of all, not overly loose.

The Z06 is harder to exit a corner cleanly, but it pulls itself around with RWD and Torque up the ass. I would say I can notice a slight rear weight bias as well. It gets very good exit speed when you've got the right line. I think its harder to drive as smooth as the R34 because its got atleast 55hp more (noone really knows how much hp an R34 has). And its also 500lbs lighter.

So, I stand by all of my convictions about the Z06 being WAY faster than the R34. Its also got better brakes and can handle alot more G's. I also like the way it can get tossed pretty quickly and doesnt have a problem hitting a chicane with the flick of the wheel.


I would say that the R34 shows evidence of superior chassis tuning and suspension geometry. I am very impressed by how well it handles for a 4WD. And it is difficult to tell which is faster until you see some lap times. But considering the fact that it has such a weight and power deficit to the Z06, I think its a better car, from an engineering standpoint.

But the Z06 uses a traditional setup that just cant be beat with its combination of engine, super wide tires and handling response, and a very light body to enhance both qualities.
 
uh....... keep in mind its just a game. or did you go out and race these two cars? i dont trust polyphony's representation of these cars are as precise as you would assume by making such subtle comments about the cars.

but your general statements i agree with. torque up the ying yang, z06 faster, r34 better engineering, suspension geomewhat?

also a great thing to keep in mind is that the z06 costs roughly half of what the r34 gtr would cost through motorex. what do they cost in japan? around 8,000,000 yen? i would guess they are atleast 1.5 the cost of a Z06.
 
GT3 is just a game, yes...but it's a fair representative, too. ;)

I don't think that the Z06 has a rearward weight bias - remember it has a big V8 in front. It does have an excellent weight distribution, something 55/45.
 
Well I ran a couple laps last night with the 'Vette and to tell the truth, I was all over the place. I guess I overestimated and drove the car too hard because at about every corner I was either getting on the gas too early and hitting the wall or spinning out coming off the corners. I was quite surprised as I thought the Z06 handled much better than that. Anyway, I didn't get a chance to copy down my best lap time because my cousin came in and turned the game off while I was in here on the computer. I'll most likely have another go at it today.
 
After testing both cars (am still running the R34 though) I can say the R34 runs rings around the Z06 in the corners. On the straights however the R34 doesn't stand a chance. My prediction is therefore that the Z06 will win this race due to the length of the straights.
 
Well, I had an initial impression of the 2 cars the way mr. pushrod expressed himself.

However, the more I raced and the more I looked into it, the more confident I felt saying that the vette was a superior car in most senses. (in stock form of course)

The vette has a hp to wieght ratio of 3.7, the skyline has a hp/wieght ratio of 5.5. A similar ratio is seen in the torque to weight... the vette has a .22 and the skyline has a .39.

So based on numbers the vette should be faster.

However, I thought about some of the other aspects of the match up.

Specifically the handling.

Although the skyline has what I believe to be a lighter wieght (although Im not sure) the skyline also has something going against it...

4wd.

Some here may consider that an advantage, but using the philosophy which is explained in the back of the game book, it might not be the advatage some think it is.

Allow me to elaborate...

At any given time, the tire has 100% of availible grip.

If 50 percent is being used for acceleration, than only 50 is availible for turning at the same time.

Same with braking and so on...

However, because of the 4wd the skyline has, all 4 wheels are using some of their possible grip for acceleration.

This is a disadvantage when compared to the corvette, which can match the acceleration of the skyline, yet has the front 2 tires constantly able to give up 100% of their grip for turning.

Hence, the grip of the vette in a turn while accelerating may be greater than the skyline's.

What do you guys think, either way...

I am now pretty sure its gonna be the vettes all the way. Especially on a big track like grand valley.
 
The thing with the Skyline's 4WD is that it is variable front to rear. It is therefore able to virtually eliminate understeer on turn in (something the 'vette seemed to like to do). While oversteering all the time is slower than simply gripping, I find it enables much better turn in. I also notice that going around corners, the R34 can simply reach higher cornering speeds. Maybe this is because I only quickly drove the Z06 but this is what I feel.
 
This is truely interesting to me at this point because I am slowly becoming more used to the Z06.

I posted what I had because of my feelings toward oversteer and understeer.

This is why I brought up a almost scientific explanation out of the game booklet.

To me it seems that the vette will actually preform oversteer in a more beneficial way than the skyline.

It litterally felt like I could do a proper speed turn and hit the gas just a bit early to create a greater turn in.

Plus I do believe that the corvettes complete lack of wheel drive in the front contributes greatly to the wheels willingness to turn under speed and stress.

I would like to hear more about what you think and even more from the other drivers in the comparison.
 
Originally posted by mr_pushrod
The thing with the Skyline's 4WD is that it is variable front to rear. It is therefore able to virtually eliminate understeer on turn in (something the 'vette seemed to like to do). While oversteering all the time is slower than simply gripping, I find it enables much better turn in. I also notice that going around corners, the R34 can simply reach higher cornering speeds. Maybe this is because I only quickly drove the Z06 but this is what I feel.
Click to expand...

Which is odd, because I prefer the Vette's turn-in. The R34 feels a bit "tight" to me.

I should also mention that the Skyline is essentially RWD - it only re-biases the engine's power when the rear wheels begin to slip.
 
Well the way I look at it, there's no way the R34 is going to beat the 'Vette. The 'Vette is like 400 lbs lighter, and has more horsepower. The power-to-weight ratio tells all. Maybe the R34 would have a chance if the Corvette handled like the Shelby Cobra and the R34 handled like the NSX, but since thats not the case, then I just don't see the R34 lapping a track quicker than a Z06 driven by 2 drivers of the same skill.
 
Many people are beginning to understand the physics of a car.


With a little reasearch, I've found that the Z06 has a weight distribution of 51%/49% F/R. I found the weight dist. for the regular C5 which is 53/47 but it looks like they took the weight off where it counts in the Z06.
 
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