[RACE] International Touring Car Championship - #5 - Close this vthreadOpen

[ITCC_Andrew]

@gokartman, @Roflwaffle, @Siggers, etc., you won't have to choose.


We're going to work together - publicly, this time - to reach a fair agreement which will actually be followed this time.

I'm willing to try to work with the schedules a bit, to include ToCA drivers. It's Furinkazen we need answers from.

 

[R0ssingt0n]

It's only a game, chill. Or just do your own thing and don't faff about so much...

 

[rolo912011]

I don't understand why you don't just merge in some way. Take the TOCA non-qualifiers on top or something.

Two birds, one stone.

 

[cnd01]

I could care less what you guys do just stop acting like 5 year olds complaining about who gets the top of the jungle gym...

 

[Furinkazen]

@gokartman, @Roflwaffle, @Siggers, etc., you won't have to choose.


We're going to work together - publicly, this time - to reach a fair agreement which will actually be followed this time.

I'm willing to try to work with the schedules a bit, to include ToCA drivers. It's Furinkazen we need answers from.

I scheduled my series. Not once did I even think of a conflict. I'll go back to my PM history:

ITCC 5 will be using those cars, as an FYI, unless something changes. We'll be using entirely unique specs.


Will you be upset?


However, we plan on running at a total of 0 tracks which are on the ToCA 10 roster, so it will remain its own unique series. And we'll be moving to a different timeslot again.

It's silly now. Andrew. Toys back in pram. Cheerio.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

It's only a game, chill. Or just do your own thing and don't faff about so much...

From the outset, ITCC's vision has been clear: We make the racing clean, exciting, and fun. We offer everyone (including ToCA drivers) an equal and fair chance to win. We offer more chances for people to win, with more than just two championships. We sometimes run 5 or 6 championships at once, whether it's Rising Star, Teams', Manufacturers', etc.


We're not ever going to abandon this vision. We want to offer the best touring car experience we can - and we do. We set our timeslot to enable everyone from Europe, Australia and North America to join our series, and we have numerous Australian gamers joining the main European and North American drivers. This is why we can't move our timeslot much - it works for three continents. We (Team of Stewards) bend over backwards for every driver's concerns regarding timeslots and work with ToCA to try to find an easy solution... And then Furinkazen, "Oh, right... You won't like this but ToCA 12..."


And it honestly hurts that I work so hard to find a solution just to be let down by Furinkazen. And, @Furinkazen, we moved our entire schedule for you and you overlapped them. Not fair to us.

I could care less what you guys do just stop acting like 5 year olds complaining about who gets the top of the jungle gym...

This is more like a discussion on a forum than a shoving match. We're looking for a solution. If you don't want to read the solution-finding process, you don't have to. Please contribute to the decision making process...

 

[Furinkazen]

From the outset, ITCC's vision has been clear: We make the racing clean, exciting, and fun. We offer everyone (including ToCA drivers) an equal and fair chance to win. We offer more chances for people to win, with more than just two championships. We sometimes run 5 or 6 championships at once, whether it's Rising Star, Teams', Manufacturers', etc.


We're not ever going to abandon this vision. We want to offer the best touring car experience we can - and we do. We set our timeslot to enable everyone from Europe, Australia and North America to join our series, and we have numerous Australian gamers joining the main European and North American drivers. This is why we can't move our timeslot much - it works for three continents. We (Team of Stewards) bend over backwards for every driver's concerns regarding timeslots and work with ToCA to try to find an easy solution... And then Furinkazen, "Oh, right... You won't like this but ToCA 12..."


And it honestly hurts that I work so hard to find a solution just to be let down by Furinkazen. And, @Furinkazen, we moved our entire schedule for you and you overlapped them. Not fair to us.

I had to change two weeks because of me being unavailable... also Le Mans week as well...

Show me the said message where I apparently said "F U ITCC IMMA TAKING YOUR TIMESLOT".

Not once have I objected about you running your series, or when it is. You chose to change the slot (proven by PM). You used to be on fridays, which is a slot I do not even use anymore. That changed to saturdays when we were already there....

 

[buck1]

Mel dont concern yourself with self indulgent persons 👍

 

[R0ssingt0n]

Lots of schedules overlap. I doubt you're the only one crying about it. This has been blown way out of proportion hahaha

 

[Furinkazen]

Also there hasn;t been an issue considering I haven't done anything. Not even mentioned ITCC in my schedules. What you schedule is up to you. You were generous enough to initially schedule it out the way, I didn't ask for that.

Considering we actually haven't made a single comment about it ourselves either...

 

[adam46]

This message is for anyone in either series, but mostly @ITCC_Andrew @Furinkazen:

I for one, am sick and tired of these arguments that go on all the time in public and on the threads. I don't really care who started it, I don't really care why you continue to argue either.

But, for the sake of the both of you, ToCA, ITCC, the people who currently race in either series and any drivers who might look to join in the future... STOP.

Stop this petty, incessant and usually stupid warfare and move on permanently. You create a bad image for yourselves and your series, as well as the GTP Online community, with this huge squabble-fest.

Please just end it and let ToCA be ToCA, and ITCC be ITCC. I can't speak for anyone else, but I get increasingly weary of it and it makes me feel less and less certain about turning up in either series.

I'm sorry if this offends either of you, but it's just my opinion, which I can't hold back any longer.

 

[Ninners]

Mel's move has caused problems for other drivers just because he's annoyed about what happened in the ToCA thread(that's what I believe). Just move on.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Lots of schedules overlap. I doubt you're the only one crying about it. This has been blown way out of proportion hahaha

But the drivers overlap. @Siggers, @Roflwaffle, etc., are the people I'm thinking of when discussing this.


I don't know whether it's impossible for Furinkazen to fathom that he's also hurting his drivers with this decision, but I know for a fact that the dual-timing drivers running in both series wish they could take part in both series. I respect their wishes. I'm doing this for the drivers. If you don't respect the drivers in your series, you're not ready to organize a series.

Mel's move has caused problems for other drivers just because he's annoyed about what happened in the ToCA thread(that's what I believe).

This was going to happen anyways. Furinkazen scheduled ToCA 12 to begin part-way through ITCC 5's season. I'm solving this before ToCA 12.



I need opinions from ITCC drivers: What do we do to avoid ToCA conflicts?

 

[rolo912011]

I don't understand why you don't just merge in some way. Take the TOCA non-qualifiers on top or something.

Two birds, one stone.

I hate to judge, but TOCA had this slot first (from what I gather), and therefore in any sort of agreement you'd have to say TOCA has "bargaining rights" to a degree. What other situation could something muscle in and take over something that was already there on principle?

I just see a situation where someone comes along and is basically annoyed that the holders of the original slot won't move out of the way.

As I say, look to combine in some way. That would solve a lot, I'm sure of it.

 

[R0ssingt0n]

That's the drivers decision though.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

That's the drivers decision though.

👍 This x1000000. I need driver input. There is 100% definitely a scheduling conflict imminent. Something's got to give so that drivers can be in both series simultaneously, as they rightly wish. I will make changes to ensure that all of our loyal drivers can remain in the series, whether it's ToCA and ITCC or just ITCC, I will make it work. I need to know what people can do/work with.

 

[buck1]

Thanks to all the TOCA members coming over tonight it's been fun having you TAXI

 

[R0ssingt0n]

I'm so confused. Time to unwatch the thread.

 

[Furinkazen]

Andrew, last thing, pertaining to Rolo's post... you had a friday slot no-one else used, and then shifted it to same time as us...

 

[buck1]

'You can move to fridays if you want but this lady is not for turning'

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Andrew, last thing, pertaining to Rolo's post... you had a friday slot no-one else used, and then shifted it to same time as us...

I got some flack about that Friday timeslot, it didn't suit people as well as the Saturday timeslot does; I'll admit that you hit the nail on the head with the timeslot you chose for ToCA, but you can't just guarantee yourself the right to force your drivers to make a choice between which series they want to join. I'm thinking of my drivers and yours when I say that I would like to come to a fair agreement.

I've contacted Wardez, and various other moderators privately, because I know that they have more experience with timeslot scheduling and might be able to offer some insight that we're missing. I'm not tossing my toys or looking for drama. I'm looking for an agreement. Whether it's a middle-ground, in that you can delay ToCA 12 a bit or somehow otherwise allow us to finish ITCC 5 before hand... Doesn't matter. All that matters is that ITCC organizers and Team of Stewards will never turn someone away. Ever.


If you can't appreciate my concern in this matter, you may want to look at it from my perspective. I - as a series host - was able to keep this series alive for four seasons despite continually changing my timeslot for you. My series has become popular and well-respected in its own way. I ask you now, as an equal and an acquaintance, to work with me.


When I PM'd you before posting this, you didn't even bother to reply. I asked if you had any objections, and you didn't. Well, now you do and suddenly it's a major travesty? I've done so much to avoid this overlap, and you've done nothing...


I was going to ask you to change your timeslot in that previous paragraph, but I won't. Instead, I'll consider you stubborn, and let ToCA have its timeslot - the big boy thing to do. I'll fold again, but if you ever overlap us again, I promise I will not fold under next time. You'll be the one who hurts your drivers again.

 

[rolo912011]

I think at the end of the day, if combining doesn't work, it's just going to have to be a law of the playground deal. The more popular series will pick up more of the drivers. It doesn't make one series better than the other, but the proof is in the sign-ups. If another touring car series came along and decided to run on Thursday evenings, and they became more popular than mine, I'd just have to deal with it I guess. It would be a pain in the ass, but still.

 

[Furinkazen]

I got some flack about that Friday timeslot, it didn't suit people as well as the Saturday timeslot does; I'll admit that you hit the nail on the head with the timeslot you chose for ToCA, but you can't just guarantee yourself the right to force your drivers to make a choice between which series they want to join. I'm thinking of my drivers and yours when I say that I would like to come to a fair agreement.

I've contacted Wardez, and various other moderators privately, because I know that they have more experience with timeslot scheduling and might be able to offer some insight that we're missing. I'm not tossing my toys or looking for drama. I'm looking for an agreement. Whether it's a middle-ground, in that you can delay ToCA 12 a bit or somehow otherwise allow us to finish ITCC 5 before hand... Doesn't matter. All that matters is that ITCC organizers and Team of Stewards will never turn someone away. Ever.


If you can't appreciate my concern in this matter, you may want to look at it from my perspective. I - as a series host - was able to keep this series alive for four seasons despite continually changing my timeslot for you. My series has become popular and well-respected in its own way. I ask you now, as an equal and an acquaintance, to work with me.


When I PM'd you before posting this, you didn't even bother to reply. I asked if you had any objections, and you didn't. Well, now you do and suddenly it's a major travesty? I've done so much to avoid this overlap, and you've done nothing...


I was going to ask you to change your timeslot in that previous paragraph, but I won't. Instead, I'll consider you stubborn, and let ToCA have its timeslot - the big boy thing to do. I'll fold again, but if you ever overlap us again, I promise I will not fold under next time. You'll be the one who hurts your drivers again.

Fair enough about fridays, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

Why contact moderators?? I even have the Pm saying you were changing. I think this comes down to you thinking I did this on purpose. I had to adjust T12 schedule couple weeks ago due to me being out of town one week, and off to Oulton Park another.

Also I can't really plan things when you don't even put dates in your OP...

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

@gokartman, @Roflwaffle, @Siggers, etc., you won't have to choose.


We're going to work together - publicly, this time - to reach a fair agreement which will actually be followed this time.

I'm willing to try to work with the schedules a bit, to include ToCA drivers. It's Furinkazen we need answers from.

I'm not sure why toca should be involved in any way though.

Furi has his series you have yours they are run independently if you can't get the drivers then I don't see how it's furi's fault.

Each series origaniser will also have their loyal followers too.

Furi has his and you have yours so I don't see why you have to wait for toca to finish?

 

[Siggers]

Genuinely LOL'd

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

I think at the end of the day, if combining doesn't work, it's just going to have to be a law of the playground deal. The more popular series will pick up more of the drivers. It doesn't make one series better than the other, but the proof is in the sign-ups. If another touring car series came along and decided to run on Thursday evenings, and they became more popular than mine, I'd just have to deal with it I guess. It would be a pain in the ass, but still.

The idea of combining the series doesn't work well because of the guys who want to join both - Siggers, roflwaffle... Probably not going to have a problem qualifying for ToCA. I wish them the best of luck with it.


But that doesn't mean that those who are fast enough to qualify for ToCA can't join ITCC if they want to. We/I refuse to turn people away unnecessarily. I'll find a way. I will. We will.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Also I can't really plan things when you don't even put dates in your OP...

My dates are there. They're like font 5, bold, and 3rd line of OP. I'll just guess maybe you scrolled past?

 

[cnd01]

Why are you guys still mad? It's a freakin video game ffs.

 

[Furinkazen]

My dates are there. They're like font 5, bold, and 3rd line of OP. I'll just guess maybe you scrolled past?

ITCC 5: The Modern Series - July 19th, 2014 - Aug. 23, 2014

Races at:

15:00 GMT-5 (3 PM) (Eastern Summer Time)
20:00 GMT-0 (8 PM) (UK Time)

Yeah, time period. Not actual dates. I see:

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Why are you guys still mad? It's a freakin video game ffs.

It would seem you're more upset than I am. You're cussing and being short-sighted, while I discuss my series. Stop swearing, I don't want that on my thread please.

@Furinkazen, yes. July 19th was the scheduled launch date of preseason Rd. 1., and every subsequent round followed on the next Saturday until August 23rd. You told me ToCA 12 was coming mid-August... Another round was added to the regular season, following the support of many of our drivers. That would take place August 30th.


...Therein lies the problem, as well.