Racers Against Street Racing

[infallible]

to be honest i'm not in the street racing scene at all, i've never participated in an actual "street race". and maybe it will be to your astonishment, but i haven't heard the stories, and had no clue this many people have died.

rumple: in no way was i trying to knock on your sister or anything of that sort, i was simply trying to through some statistics into this. i'm not that kind of person, and believe me, if my sister was killed by street racers i'd most likely be in jail.

 

[Joey D]

Here is my veiw on what you guys are saying.

It's your choice to race and no one can stop you.

Compared to other traffic incedents Street Racing deaths are minimal. Most of the time the racer kills him/her self. I've only ever read a few stories of street racing deaths.

The cops are at fault too! Last year in Detroit two cops pulled up to watch a race. They pulled music and took bets. Some guy on a motocycle lost control and hit someone. Tell me that cops are not a fault here.

And actually you have more balls when you race on the street cause of the higher danger. On the track its controled.

Street Racing has been going on since the 20's probaly before. I remember my dad telling me stories. He had a 32 Ford Coupe and raced it. He never agreed with me racing but he said if I got caught he wouldn't pay for anything.

Also I never believe statistics. There a bunch of bull. Like 5 guys sitting at a computer doing a bunch of Math. I believe what I've seen.

 

[Joey D]

By the Way don't flame me for this. If you want to respond be civil

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by streetracer780
Here is my veiw on what you guys are saying.

It's your choice to race and no one can stop you.

Compared to other traffic incedents Street Racing deaths are minimal. Most of the time the racer kills him/her self. I've only ever read a few stories of street racing deaths.

The cops are at fault too! Last year in Detroit two cops pulled up to watch a race. They pulled music and took bets. Some guy on a motocycle lost control and hit someone. Tell me that cops are not a fault here.

And actually you have more balls when you race on the street cause of the higher danger. On the track its controled.

Street Racing has been going on since the 20's probaly before. I remember my dad telling me stories. He had a 32 Ford Coupe and raced it. He never agreed with me racing but he said if I got caught he wouldn't pay for anything.

Also I never believe statistics. There a bunch of bull. Like 5 guys sitting at a computer doing a bunch of Math. I believe what I've seen.

This is just drivel.

That's right it is your choice to race - it is your choice to act like a responsible adult and not race. It's also your choice to run down a street and shoot people at random. This is a nonsense argument.

I would suggest that the rate of death amongst street racers is very high compared to normal road usage. You yourself admit normal road usage is dangerous - why make it any more dangerous, with generally untrained drivers in uncontrolled environments.

Most of the time the racer kills only themselves?!?! ONE innocent death due to illegal street racing is too many.

Your attempt to deflect blame onto the police in your anecdote is ridiculous. Yes, the police should have done something, but it is the racer making the decision to race.

You need bigger balls to race on the street!?! Not only is this also a nonsensical argument, you actually concede it's more dangerous!!

And the fact that it's been going on since the '20's is irrelevant. Murder's been going on since Cain and Abel - it doesn't make it right, buddy. Nonsense argument.

And your comments about statistics is the classic 'I've never seen it, so it'll never happen to me' syndrome. Try this for statistics. Put one bullet in a six shot revolver. It's only a 1 in 6 chance, but if you keep spinning the chambers and pulling the trigger, it's only a matter of time before someone gets hurt.

It's time to admit you're in a morally indefensible position. What you are doing is dangerous to other people. Street racers are selfish and dangerous to other people. If you think otherwise you're deluding yourself.

 

[Joey D]

I'm not defending it. I think its wrong. And that thing with the cops happened more than once. Hell I've even heard about them racing people.

Drunk Driving causes the most accidents. According to something I read. But once again its probaly wrong.

and I don't race on the street so why do I get flammed for it. I used to but I relized the danger and the amount a ticket would be.

 

[sn00pie]

Originally posted by streetracer780
It's your choice to race and no one can stop you.

Wanna bet?

Compared to other traffic incedents Street Racing deaths are minimal. Most of the time the racer kills him/her self. I've only ever read a few stories of street racing deaths.

Oh, so as long as the streetracers are getting their grooves on a "few" deaths are A-okay?

The cops are at fault too! Last year in Detroit two cops pulled up to watch a race. They pulled music and took bets. Some guy on a motocycle lost control and hit someone. Tell me that cops are not a fault here.

Of course the police is at fault here, this however does not mean you're not responsible for your own actions and you won't go to prison when you kill someone or won't die when you run into a tree.

And actually you have more balls when you race on the street cause of the higher danger. On the track its controled.

It's not about the danger, that's not what should get your adrenaline flowing junior. It should be about the actual racing which only really takes place on actual circuits. Face it.

Also I never believe statistics. There a bunch of bull. Like 5 guys sitting at a computer doing a bunch of Math. I believe what I've seen.

And what exactly have you seen?

 

[sn00pie]

Originally posted by streetracer780
I'm not defending it. I think its wrong. And that thing with the cops happened more than once. Hell I've even heard about them racing people.

Drunk Driving causes the most accidents. According to something I read. But once again its probaly wrong.

I thought you didn't believe in statistics.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by streetracer780
I'm not defending it. I think its wrong. And that thing with the cops happened more than once. Hell I've even heard about them racing people.

Drunk Driving causes the most accidents. According to something I read. But once again its probaly wrong.

and I don't race on the street so why do I get flammed for it. I used to but I relized the danger and the amount a ticket would be.

You just put up a huge thread defending it!!! You put up comments defending it with no analysis - of course you were going to get flamed.

I don't doubt it with the police - again, this does not make it right.

I totally agree with you on drink-driving - it's totally wrong, and I would support a zero blood alcohol content law. I don't think it gets anywhere near the coverage it should as a danger on the roads.

 

[Joey D]

I don't believe statistics. Thats why I said it was problay wrong.

That thread defending it was a long time ago!!!!

I have seen people crash. Never die but crash.

This is pissing me off so screw it. You guys flame me for an article.
**** THIS I'm leaving

 

[Der Alta]

Streetracer780:

You were responding with civility, and doing an excellent job at it. You used som flawed logic, but wanted to stand up for what you know firsthand, and try to support it with information. A commendable move. Far better than a few other recent attempts at it.

Skillz comes to mind...

I can attest to the rush that you get from street racing. I was lucky, growing up in the Backwoods traffic was two deer on the road at night. 65 on a dirt road at midnight gives a rush like no other. My little brother managed to get Mom's neon 3/4way through a barrel roll before it landed. He was lucky. I've raced up I-89 at over 130mph. I look back now and wonder why I'm still alive.

I watch TF&TF and was amazed. The inherent danger in these races are incredible. What if that Pizza driver had driven into their path? My dad never told me stories of racing, but he hinted enough for me to know he did.

You are right, it is your choice to race, it's also your choice to not race. In America you have the right to pick a fight, and take a swing in a fight. You lose that right when you connect.

"Balls" rubs a fine line with Stupidity, IN MY OPINION. Does Jackie Chan have balls to do some of his stunts? I'd wager that he does more than a few test runs and studies of some of his crazy stunts. I wouldn't call it drivel, You just used some unsubstantiated facts, that are very close to thoughts. Which is why you got flamed. Not because you defend, or did defend Street racing. A simple, "I was guilty of not doing enough research, thanks guys for showing me that it is worse than I thought." would eliminate alot of the flames.

This is a hotly contested topic, and you opened a can of worms. That takes a bit of Huevos to do considering the company your in. A bit more to try to defend your position.

Yes, Drunk driving is one of the biggest killers on the road.

Tell Ernardt, Senna or Castroneves (SP?) it's a controlled race on a circuit.

90% of all statistics are made up.

My two cents
AO

BTW:I'm so backwoods that I've seen people drive a tractor to Church sunday morning.

 

[Joey D]

Well thanks for your input. I've cooled down some now. I was not only mad here but I was made at something eles. MY god damn clutch went out in my car and I was trying to fix it but the wrench slips outta my hand. I cut it pretty bad.

Any way thanks for clearing the air. Your post really cleared somethings up.

I shouldn't have posted this thread. Cause I should have known that I would get people who don't understand. It seems like Der Alta knows though.

 

[Duke]

I shouldn't have posted this thread. Cause I should have known that I would get people who don't understand. It seems like Der Alta knows though. [/B]

Ummmmmm, what don't I understand? I refuse to 'understand' that street racing is OK if you get away with it. I understand it is fun to drive fast. I do it myself - I'm rarely within 10% of the speed limit. But when I do it, I have my eyes open ALL THE TIME and I am not caught up in the rush of competition. When you are driving on public streets you need to be thinking 10 seconds in front of the car, not looking to see whether you're a fenderlength ahead or behind the guy you're racing.

I appreciate that you were angry at something else and I'll let that pass at face value.

But everything Vat_man said is 100% correct! It is a morally indefensible position. Everything that you used in response was either irrelevant, or centered around choices made by the racers themselves. You are correct, it is their choice, and that is the WHOLE basis of my argument against it. While the racers are excercising their "rights" to race, they are making that same choice for every other person on the road. That's unfair and inexcusable.

You are right, drunk driving is a bigger problem. But nobody makes movies glorifying drunk driving, do they? There aren't any pro-drunk driving websites. Your username isn't drunkdriver_780, either. Everybody knows drunk driving is a problem, and in fact it has tended steadily downward for years thanks to better education, and better enforcement. Streetracing, on the other hand, has been steadily on the rise thanks to drivel like F&F and a lot of teenagers with rich parents.

There are enough local dragstrips and autocross competitions around that people can get their kicks in a way that is safe for bystanders and does not endanger innocent people. In fact, the SCCA is making a concerted effort to recruit new drivers from the import/streetracing crowd, by making new classes that fit those cars and promoting special clubs for younger drivers.

So there is no real excuse or defense. Street racing may be a rush for the participants, but the dangers it forces upon uninvolved, innocent people make it unnacceptable.

 

[Joey D]

The fast and the furious just brought out more people to hate streeet racing. If that movie never would have come out milions of people wouldn't haven't even cared.

 

[1X83Z]

Maybe the uninformed wouldn't have cared...

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by streetracer780
The fast and the furious just brought out more people to hate streeet racing. If that movie never would have come out milions of people wouldn't haven't even cared.

Bzzzzzzt, sorry, wrong answer. Hollywood doesn't start trends, they follow them. The sport compact/street racing scene was hot, and when it got publicized by that movie, it just got bigger. Thousands of spoiled kids with too much money and too little sense decided they could be Vin Diesel too. All the movie did to bring out the 'haters' is give the newspapers something extra to mention in every story.

Besides, by YOUR logic, then anything that people don't find out about is OK. That's like saying, "well, if CNN hadn't published all those news stories, millions of people wouldn't have cared about the Palestinians and Israelis killing each other."

I've been arguing against illegal streetracing for 5 years. Thousands of other people have been arguing against it for far longer than that. I haven't had to suffer the loss of a family member, like [Rumpleforeskin] has. But I KNOW it is morally and ethically wrong because it places people in danger who do not have a choice about accepting that risk for themselves.

YOU CANNOT DENY THAT STATEMENT. You can deny the evidence all you want; you can say it's been going on for decades, you can blame it on cops for not stopping it; whatever. But you cannot morally justify it.

EDIT: We're not talking about a question of style or taste here. It's not a matter of whether or not you like wings/wheels/paint/huge exhaust tips/whatever. That kind of thing is a personal preference, and I'm not against that at all, even if I don't like it myself. But when a street racer places innocent people in danger - which he does just by racing - that's when he loses his right to that activity.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by neon_duke

I haven't had to suffer the loss of a fmaily member, like M5Power has.

neon_duke: Good statement, except that it was Rumple Foreskin who lost his sister, not me...

:thumbsup:

streetracer780: I hope you know the possible consequences for you actions everytime you street-race.

 

[Joey D]

I don't race!!!!

 

[Duke]

Then that's a fairly odd choice of username, eh? Whutevah, d00d.

 

[Joey D]

That was a long time ago. Plus I could do street course racing.

Why don't you guys listen to me? I haven't raced for two months. So get off me for that.

The Fast and the Furious made a lot of people who had know idea what was going on start to complain. I'm not against Street Racing in any way. Like I said its up to them on whether or not they do it.

I'm all for modding up your car. There is nothing wrong with that. I really getting tired for being classified as a Racer just because I have a nice car, I'm young and I used to do it.

I want to stop arguing :argue: so lets just drop it.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by neon_duke
Then that's a fairly odd choice of username, eh? Whutevah, d00d.

- Agreed.

streetracer: You just said your dad told you he wouldn't bail you out if you got caught.

 

[Joey D]

I know I did

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by streetracer780
"I'm not against Street Racing in any way. Like I said its up to them on whether or not they do it."

YES, but get it through your head - it's NOT up to everybody else to be subjected to that risk. The OTHER DRIVERS on the public road are not allowed to make that choice. THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT WRONG.

"I'm all for modding up your car. There is nothing wrong with that. I really getting tired for being classified as a Racer just because I have a nice car, I'm young and I used to do it."

First off, I'm arguing against street racing in general, not just against you. Second off, if you're tired of being classified as a street racer, change your user name and - here's a thought - QUIT DEFENDING STREET RACING!

 

[Joey D]

I can't change my user name I'd lose my account.

I'm not defending street racing. I just saying the US isn't a Communist country so they can't tell people what to do. Nor can I or you. What do you care if people want to act stupid and race on the street? You can't stop it so just forget about it. The only way you can help stop street racing is promote stuff like the NOPI Series.

 

[vat_man]

Any objections if I were to call time on this thread, lads?

Good.