Racing Drift Discussion

  • Thread starter The Prime
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In an attempt to bring this board back to its roots and create meaningful discussion, I think we should start discussing drift theory again. I am going to try to start it by saying I believe drift racing can be every bit as fast if not more fast than grip racing. I don't mean the huge angle sim tire drifting. I mean 4 wheel drifting where there is mild oversteer and you are using 100% (and sometimes a little more) of your grip, and controlling your car in a corner is only done by the gas and brake; i.e. don't touch the steering wheel. A lot of people already know this so I am gonna try to take it a step further by talking about some techniques behind drift racing that will allow increased speed, overtaking of opponents, and sometimes blocking opponents in a race. I don't have time to post all the techniques I use in GT3 but I will start with braking drift.

Braking Drift: The way I like to define this is by giving a scenario of when this will be used. I think the ideal corner to use this is where moderate to heavy braking is required and the corner is in the shape of a half circle. The basics of this allow you to have your foot on the gas pedal a little longer than a grip racer. As you enter the corner you should brake heavily .5-.8 seconds later than a grip driver would brake. This creates oversteer as you enter the apex of the corner which is the beginning of the drift. You should immediately switch to gas after the apex has been reached and modulate it as necessary to maximize grip. I've created a diagram of this to help illustrate my point.

braking_drift.JPG


The top set is for a drift racer and the bottom set is for a grip racer. Red lines indicate braking, blue indicate gas, and grey indicate neither. The drifter brakes a little later than the gripper allowing him to enter the corner at a greater speed. He brakes until he reaches the max grip speed then he switches to gas to modulate his angle to maximize his speed during the last half of the corner leading to the exit. Notice the grip racer has to brake earlier and the gray line indicates he is at the max grip speed, but the drifter is able to race above that grip speed for a short period of time until he reaches the apex where the max grip speed is the same as the grip racer. Note that the drift racer is never idle on the throttle or brake. If one were to combine the two sets, it can be easily seen that this is a great technique for passing an opponent in a corner.

Pergatory, bengee, thio and the gang: if you think this thread can bring something back, try to contribute your ideas.

If you guys wanna know about the old school discussions I was talkin about just check out this thread that discusses drift vs grip.
 
i like to brake drift but i usually do a quick feint right before it then i will brake to bring the back end around then just moderate the throttle not full but not have none.
 
good stuff prime, however when I race my freinds (which are pretty damn good at gt3) I allways use my drifting cars while they choose to grip, and I allways win or loose either right in front of them, or right behind them... it's definately not that "why drift? it's slower.." cause I win drifting all the time.

The best way to compare this, is too choose a car (any car) and do a couple laps and remember your lap times, then, using the same car, set it up for drifting, then check you lap times again, and compare... you'd be suprised how close they are...

good work prime :)
 
ok, here's a question for you: Is feinting into the corner faster or slower than not feinting? I would believe that feinting requires you sacrifice a certain amount of grip which will be taken from the grip needed for gas or brake. Is the greater entry angle worth this sacrifice?
 
This is my drifting style. I just started using SIMS today, it's alot harder, but fun. Hehe, badly drawn. :D
 

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In a race (on tarmac) the car should never ever be sideways, as i see in several of hte posts after The Prime's diagrams... I believe that the Prime wants to discuss the use of drifting while racing, not for the purpose of exhibition, and i would encourage all drifters to try and race while drifting in a car that gives good competition for the AI...

What i tend to do on most tracks is use the trail braking technique to slow my speed and then i feather the throttle to keep both my revs and my speed throughout hte corner... much as the prime has described... I generally use the brake to change my direction in a drastic manner ( like in the middle of turn 1 on apricot) on other corners i use the throttle to control...

What i think we need to do in addition to the discussion of racing theory, is a general test forum... something like my drift versus grip challenge in my sig... I think i will open it up in here rather than the olr forum just beacuse the majority of individuals who were in it were from this forum and anyone else interested was too busy with olr comps... Prime if you are interested in what i am planning please pm.

Anyways... This is a great topic The Prime and i think it might actually get me into gt3 again... I really havent been playing all that much...
 
Originally posted by nightkids4ever
u guys should make a guide by using the pics
yes that would be a good idea. using pictures would help peoplle understand certain concepts of drifting. I wouldn't publish the diagram unless i had a high quality way of doing it though:cool:
 
yea most of my drift cars are kinda powerfull so i do ebrake quite a bit!:banghead:

sry for my scary ms paint skeelz
 

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Originally posted by Chaos Fire
You'll soon learn how to properly drift, young grasshoppa.:lol:

if by properly you mean using a 250-300hp car on sims then yes i also know damn well how to drift under those conditions, i just choose to use high powered cars becuase its much more fun beating my friends and family when we're playing each other with it.
 
Originally posted by fiend
if by properly you mean using a 250-300hp car on sims then yes i also know damn well how to drift under those conditions, i just choose to use high powered cars becuase its much more fun beating my friends and family when we're playing each other with it.

Oh, i thought you ONLY used E-brake, well, can't wait to see you on the track in GT4 i guess...
 
Originally posted by Willis
umm... how did the prime make this topic yet respekt has the first post?

oh and um... drifting is cool ;)

the last time that happen'd was when we had a server change... that is very wierd though. im sure people can figure it out.

anyway... i'lll rarely use the hand break. i do feint drift and when i switch directions, like in my example above. I'll hit the break reall hard to get the angle on my drift and accelll and smoke the tires throigh the turn. i have just came up with a setup on my 180sx and its allows for maximum drift angle, more than i have ever been able to achieve before, very crazy indeed.

and drifting faster than grip? i see this as an opinion really. On some turns with a long and wide radius, grip will obviouslly be faster. On real tight turns, WRC would be a could example and i see drift faster in that case...
 
A point no one has really dealt with... A drifter will be able to cope with an unfamiliar course becuase if a mistake is made they will be able to deal more readily than one who only grips...
 
Originally posted by bengee
A point no one has really dealt with... A drifter will be able to cope with an unfamiliar course becuase if a mistake is made they will be able to deal more readily than one who only grips...
This is exactly what I have been trying to explain to all the hardcore grip racers. Practicing drifting gives the driver very a intricate perception of throttle, braking, and steering response. Which in turn teaches one how to control the car at the limit, helping you to avoid any lost time due to skidding out or accidentally taking a bad line. I use a style of 4 wheel drift when racing against the AI, very similiar to grip but with only slight loss of traction to setup for turn exit. Furthermore, I am glad more topics like this are showing up so we can have more informative discusions.;)
 
I agree with you silviadrifter by practising alot with drift it makes the grip races with tyre wear alot easier.How many times have you been in a 10 lap grip race your not doing so well you know if you pit at all your race is over, so there are 2 options, 1 bow down accept defeat restart the race, 2 take the bull by the horns decide im not going to pit do the race on 1 set of of tyres, at some point the AI pit letting you back into race lead, the AI take a lap to get some heat into there tyres then they start clawing back at your advantage, by lap 8-9 your rear tyres are seriously shot you are now required to draw upon your drifting experiance to prevent a spin out whilst maintaing maximum speed when cornering as braking to hard before the corners is seriously chewing away your lead, three quarters through Lap 10 the AI are barking at your heels no problem strategic blocking and ramming is required. Finish line and none to soon what an adreniline rush .Drifting techniques saves the day yet again.
 
Prime, you forgot to mention that there is no countersteer :) Other else than that, you got it all covered. I'll shed some more light on this more:

When driving a turbo-powered car, the best way to keep the boost going in a four wheel drift (what Prime is describing) is to keep the revolutions up where the turbo spools the most and keep it there. Instead of letting the throttle go in a turn, press the brake moderately to slow the car down before a turn and turn hard into the corner while keeping the revolutions up. And then when the car is turning into the corner by itself, modulate the throttle and the brake to use the maximum grip the car can get out of the four tires. If you can do that on each turn, then you have learned how to four wheel drift. Oh yeah, and no countersteering or steering for that matter.

Man, I have to edit that paragraph later :)
 
I made a little diagram if what my lines may look like. It has nothing to do with going fast but I thought I'd share since everyone else did. :D
 

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Originally posted by Odpadnik
Hmm, nice.
But this is theory. When I'm behind the wheel everything becomes 10 times more difficult.:mad:

Well, you have to keep that kind of line in mind though :)
 
too lazy to read it all....ill just make my point.
a race drift is when you start a slide before the corner allowing a high entrance speed while keeping the drift throughout the turn using minimal countersteer and regaining straight forward traction just after the apex of the trun.
that should do it.:lol:
 
Originally posted by F.Zamataki
too lazy to read it all....ill just make my point.
a race drift is when you start a slide before the corner allowing a high entrance speed while keeping the drift throughout the turn using minimal countersteer and regaining straight forward traction just after the apex of the trun.
that should do it.:lol:

Wow, a truncated version of what the first ~30 posts were trying to say/portray. Nice :)
 
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