Racing Etiquette?

[SmokeyMR2]

They need damage on, or at least in Race C so fair racers have the opportunity to race. It won't eliminate it completely but drivers would be far less likely to ram the guy in front if it meant suffering engine trouble for half a lap. There is no consequence for a dirty driver in GTS except for a penalty but they get maybe 5 seconds of slow down compared to the 10-15 seconds you can lose getting back on track (or resetting to track) and cleaning the tires!

I love GTS and a lot of drivers are pretty fair, I don't want easy passes but some drivers just cannot handle been passed, lose their **** and decide its time to murder you and anyone else who "dares" to try to overtake. Hard but fair racing is all most of us want and I think the est solution PD has currently would be damage. Secondly it would add a level of pressure in the race as drivers wouldn't get away with wall grinding and other techniques which are quick but IRL would batter the vehicle. Only my opinion though

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

In F1, Ricciardo is an expert (or he's just running hot in a game of chance) at bullying people into giving up places with lunges from way back. In the virtual world he'd find the door would be shut much more often and carnage would ensue. Perhaps acknowledging the differences between real and virtual racing would go some way to stop lunges from way back from people who are just trying to emulate the great overtakes they see in real motorsport.

I understand your point but it's really not fair to compare F1 driving to what we are doing. Passing at that level is about much more than bullying and it's usually the result of tactical decisions made far in advance of the pass with a pit team being aware of tire, fuel, and engine discrepancies between the other cars. What looks like a late brake dive bomb to us is usually a car on fresh tires out braking cars that haven't pitted yet.

I think this feeds back into your main point though. PD definitely needs to establish guidelines since people are having to look to F1 highlight reels as examples of great driving totally unaware of the context.

 

[Woodybobs]

it's really not fair to compare F1 driving to what we are doing. Passing at that level is about much more than bullying and it's usually the result of tactical decisions made far in advance of the pass with a pit team being aware of tire, fuel, and engine discrepancies between the other cars. What looks like a late brake dive bomb to us is usually a car on fresh tires out braking cars that haven't pitted yet.

That's true but it's likely there are other reasons why some drivers get a reputation for pulling off this type of overtake. I have very limited knowledge regarding motorsport in general so perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but I think there must be more to it. If it were just because of those reasons Bottas would be as well known for lunges as Ricciardo. Ricciardo attempts, and pull off, overtakes that others don't go for.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

That's true but it's likely there are other reasons why some drivers get a reputation for pulling off this type of overtake. I have very limited knowledge regarding motorsport in general so perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but I think there must be more to it. If it were just because of those reasons Bottas would be as well known for lunges as Ricciardo. Ricciardo attempts, and pull off, overtakes that others don't go for.

I'd imagine that Ricciardo is a bit hamstrung by his engine relative to his driving ability. So it would make sense that he would have to rely on tactics to pass rather than defending a strong qualifying position.

 

[Woodybobs]

I'd imagine that Ricciardo is a bit hamstrung by his engine relative to his driving ability. So it would make sense that he would have to rely on tactics to pass rather than defending a strong qualifying position.

Again, that's probably a valid reason. I still think there's more to it though. In this interview both the interviewer and he discuss his overtaking technique in such a flippant way that they make it seem like it's a fairly unique skill, even amongst F1 drivers. I think that part of his ability to pull off late lunges is forcing the defending driver to make the final decision - something that's harder to do in the virtual world because of reduced awareness due to 2d screens, the investment in each race is so small (5-10 mins usually and no monetary cost), and the fact that virtual racers know there's another race starting very soon.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Again, that's probably a valid reason. I still think there's more to it though. In this interview both the interviewer and he discuss his overtaking technique in such a flippant way that they make it seem like it's a fairly unique skill, even amongst F1 drivers. I think that part of his ability to pull off late lunges is forcing the defending driver to make the final decision - something that's harder to do in the virtual world because of reduced awareness due to 2d screens, the investment in each race is so small (5-10 mins usually and no monetary cost), and the fact that virtual racers know there's another race starting very soon.

Are you reverring to his Baku pass? He had fresher tires and knew that he could safely outbrake the two inside cars. I can't find the breakdown where that's mentioned but I've seen it discussed before.

But back to what you said, there is definitely "more to it though", which is my entire point. Ultimately it's not a dive bomb if you overlap before the turn in and make it to the apex without hitting the outside driver. That "faith" he discusses is the faith in the result, the assessment that he can cleanly pass to the apex without incident. Though it's ultimately a decision that he makes it's also made in concert with pit crew strategists who are monitoring multiple track issues, in the case of Baku, relative tire wear.

 

[kilesa4568]

I think it boils down to whether or not you can maintain good control of your car and not hit the car you are passing that decides if you are aggressive or dirty.

I'm not talking about using contact to get an advantage. I'd never go that far. Ever. My car control is pretty good though as I drive within my limit so if a small opportunity came up, I can pounce on it. The usual case being people braking too late or early or not defending well enough. Likewise a small overlap on turn in. I'll be far enough along and won't hit them but if they turn in on me, I'm not going to try and disappear any more. Those types of situations.

It might be classed as dirty by the drivers who offer up those sorts of chances but if they make a small mistake that I can take advantage of, tough.

 

[Woodybobs]

Are you reverring to his Baku pass? He had fresher tires and knew that he could safely outbrake the two inside cars. I can't find the breakdown where that's mentioned but I've seen it discussed before.

But back to what you said, there is definitely "more to it though", which is my entire point. Ultimately it's not a dive bomb if you overlap before the turn in and make it to the apex without hitting the outside driver. That "faith" he discusses is the faith in the result, the assessment that he can cleanly pass to the apex without incident. Though it's ultimately a decision that he makes it's also made in concert with pit crew strategists who are monitoring multiple track issues, in the case of Baku, relative tire wear.

No, I'd be relying on YT videos if I were referring to any overtake in particular. I'm reluctant to do so as it's difficult to assess each of them in the context of the race. I'm more referring to the interviewers comments when he says "everyone was watching thinking 'not a chance'... but we think like that every time we see you do a late braking move". Interviewers, commentators, and other drivers use such language when discussing with or about Ricciardo more than any other current driver. They all have help from their teams and, over time, encounter similar situations when it comes to overtaking but he seems to be the one who gets most attention for clean overtakes from a long way back.

Anyway, whatever the reason for it, we are both saying that virtual racing needs it's own code of conduct because certain aspects of real life motorsports don't transfer cleanly to sim racing. Without it people will naturally refer to rules and practices of real motorsport.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I'll be far enough along and won't hit them but if they turn in on me, I'm not going to try and disappear any more.

The only thing that drives me insane now are people who try to run you into the wall/grass on the straights. There's nothing subtle or borderline about that trash tactic and when people begin murdering my SR with little nudges like that I usually don't hesitate to flick them in the rear quarter panel to knock them off of the track with me. It's definitely the cause of my current SR slump (and rightfully so) but I'm just tired of being dorked around by these horrible drivers, especially when I'm better at punting than they are.

 

[dabz343]

The ambiguous comment from the etiquette videos, 'don't do something that makes you look bad' really triggers some people's holier than thou character traits. All the "Judge me!" threads we see on here show how great the disparity is on what's bad and what isn't. Is that more important than a good hard race in a safe environment or do we care that much what others think of us, even if we know the tactic we used was valid?

I'm not sure if we are on the same page about racing etiquette. Knowledge and competency about the rules and sportsmanship of racing does not translate to boring displays of passivity where everyone is trying to look good.

On the contrary. When skilled drivers clearly understand the context, limitations and repercussions, they tend to do what they naturally gravitate towards, which is to get right to the limit of what is acceptable and start poking around. This has been my experience with anything competitive in life, and at the highest levels, no one is just trying to look good.

It's your choice again how you want to perceive, critique and enjoy GTS. But do comprehend that some in this community are seeking to elevate their etiquette because they want to race harder, balance their car on the edge longer and master the cognitive and physical skills that it takes to be a champion.

 

[gtpierre]

They need damage on, or at least in Race C so fair racers have the opportunity to race. It won't eliminate it completely but drivers would be far less likely to ram the guy in front if it meant suffering engine trouble for half a lap. There is no consequence for a dirty driver in GTS except for a penalty but they get maybe 5 seconds of slow down compared to the 10-15 seconds you can lose getting back on track (or resetting to track) and cleaning the tires!

I love GTS and a lot of drivers are pretty fair, I don't want easy passes but some drivers just cannot handle been passed, lose their **** and decide its time to murder you and anyone else who "dares" to try to overtake. Hard but fair racing is all most of us want and I think the est solution PD has currently would be damage. Secondly it would add a level of pressure in the race as drivers wouldn't get away with wall grinding and other techniques which are quick but IRL would batter the vehicle. Only my opinion though

While I would love to have the damage ON (I always put it on strong in custom races), there are two problems with it :
1-ping/lag and connexion related problems make that sometimes, what you think is gonna be a minor contact/rubbing sends the other car 3m away.
It has happened a several times to me (few times on me and few times by me), and this would basically translate in damage for both people while it was not intended, and would have not happened without connexion issue.

2- Dirty players would probably mess up the race of a lower number of people, but the effect would be greater for this unlucky person.
And I don't see this as something that would be accepted easily by the community.

On the other hand, damage could make sense in FIA events like the one in Paris now, or the one in Monaco last year although they don't have a specific issue with dirty driving as they are watched by commissaries. It could still spice the races and force people not to block overtake stupidely like in few occasions last year.

 

[dlshearon]

I think real damage would help with ettiquette. I’ve been on both ends of the spectrum.
🤬 happens when you race.
Take a drink or smoke and race on, at the end of the day it’s just a game.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I think real damage would help with ettiquette. .

Real damage would help with bump passing, brake checking, and dive bombing but it still wouldn't stop punting via using the PIT maneuver. The PIT maneuver causes practically no damage to the attacking car so you'd probably see more punting due to it.

 

[MrCooper]

GTS' radar is an attempt, but the scale and location of this prompt should be optimized so that drivers are able to utilize their peripheral vision and maintain focus on racing.

The radar widget in Assetto Corsa Competizione early access release 6 looks nice. It's in the middle of the driver's view (similar to HUDs in real cars), translucent, and only fades in as other cars approach you from the back or sides. The closer they are, the more clearly visible it becomes.

 

[fastone371]

I'm not talking about using contact to get an advantage. I'd never go that far. Ever. My car control is pretty good though as I drive within my limit so if a small opportunity came up, I can pounce on it. The usual case being people braking too late or early or not defending well enough. Likewise a small overlap on turn in. I'll be far enough along and won't hit them but if they turn in on me, I'm not going to try and disappear any more. Those types of situations.

It might be classed as dirty by the drivers who offer up those sorts of chances but if they make a small mistake that I can take advantage of, tough.

If someone gets by me without contact I call it a good move, if they can do it while I am defending it's a great move. Any part of the track that my car does not occupy is fair game for you. Since I am mid to upper DR B SR 99 I mainly seem to race with other B's and A's, many who will not hesitate to lean on you in a corner to make a pass or cut that apex too tight then knock off track because they are carrying too much speed thru the corner. They seem to think it was accidental when they knock you off track because their car pushed on them, well of course it pushed up high, you were carrying way too much speed. These are same drivers that punt you off track at T1 L1 because they dont seem to learn that you need to brake a little earlier when the cars are all bunched up, they think the car in front was braking too early because they were trying not to hit the car in front of them. Aggression is the way to win as long as it is controlled aggression and not just simply win at all cost.

 

[kilesa4568]

I'm not sure if we are on the same page about racing etiquette.

We were reading different books, never mind the same page.

I was talking about etiquette in its literal sense. ie good manners. It carries over into my racing and I've never had a complaint...*touch wood*

Aggression is the way to win as long as it is controlled aggression and not just simply win at all cost.

Definitely not my style. A good result means nothing if it's ill gotten so there's no worry there.👍

 

[dabz343]

The radar widget in Assetto Corsa Competizione early access release 6 looks nice. It's in the middle of the driver's view (similar to HUDs in real cars), translucent, and only fades in as other cars approach you from the back or sides. The closer they are, the more clearly visible it becomes.

If you are referring to the Helicorsa, yes indeed, very nice.

 

[beegentoo]

I doubt that there is a rule but more a common-sense decision made in the blink of an eye: when I‘m on the inside trying to pass I consider the turn is mine as soon as I don’t see any part of the other car when look straight forward. On the other hand I back off when I noticed the driver behind me is passing somewhere where I noticed in the laps before that he was simply faster (or when I know that I am currently slow due to tire wear etc.).

I‘d rather lose just one position than having my whole race ruined due to a crash. So I will fight for a position but just for a bleeding nose and not for life.

 

[Mirror_man]

Want to know about racing Etiquette???


well .. i´m sure you wil find lots of infos and inspiration in this "old" GT Planet thread :

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ng-behaviour-how-gts-should-be-played.375408/

 

[kilesa4568]

Want to know about racing Etiquette???


well .. i´m sure you wil find lots of infos and inspiration in this "old" GT Planet thread :

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ng-behaviour-how-gts-should-be-played.375408/

N/A. My racing attitude's changed. If you see this face in your rear view mirror in the near future, , it'll be me. Not quite 'Jason Plato' mode, but it'll be close...