Racing for "Pinks?"

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This idea for a possible new feature in the upcoming GT5 came to me the other night while racing in the Extreme Hall against some of the more exotic LMP and JGTC cars (e.g. those you can buy after saving up tons of credits but not win).

Why not allow one to "race for pinks?"

This was a real-life feature of early American street racing that has survived to the present day among the "Fast and Furious" crowd: one bets one's car -- i.e. its 'pink slip' or certificate of ownership -- against an opponent's based on the outcome of a race.

As applied to the GT5 game the idea could work something like a claiming race in thoroughbred horse racing: you would enter your car in a race or a championship series for which it qualifies and, if you win, you get your choice of one of the opposing cars to own.

This would not only reward skill in a very tangible way but it might also add value to all those credits that one seems to inevitably squander on modding one's favorite ride.

To take a simple example, let's say you purchased a 2003 Shelby Series 1 SC for 184,630 Cr to compete in the one-make Shelby series of races and you win the championship. Instead of (or in addition to) the 1965 Shelby Mustang GT 350R you’d win as a prize car, why not allow you to claim one of the opposing cars, the 1967 Shelby Cobra 427 (costing 530,550 Cr), as your prize?

To make the contests more meaningful I could envision limiting claiming races to one’s with a certain A-spec value…even, perhaps, for only 100- to 200-point races.

Of course, the flip side of the “racing for pinks” concept is that if you lose the race or championship, you also lose your car. Thus, the same dynamic would be at play in the game as in real life: you’re betting your skill and/or the ability of your car against those of the AI with a lot on the line to either win or lose.

To ensure fairness, the developers could make the process of winning or losing the same as buying a car, i.e. once the transaction is completed, pushing the reset button can't undo it.

What do you think?
 
I think it would make the game too easy to make money and to build up your garage. I already think the game is too easy to build up in, and I think that's one of the games problems. The AI is simply put, too easy to beat, now to do it against a human player online, that's another story. Alternatively if they did do pink slips in the GT mode then I'd rather see it as a challenge thing, ie you get challenged once every so many game weeks, months or years or something (but not frequently) and that way you can't easilly just win back another car should you lose yours, you'll have to wait a long time and that's puts the seriousness of it into perspective. Alternatively you couldn't use it as a cash cow and just win car after car after car really easilly.
 
What about online? Personally, I wouldn't participate, but it'd be a popular feature...

I can see that one ending in blows... While the idea has merit, I don't know how many people would be happy to lose their car. Racing AI is one thing, but racing another person? I might be able to dust the AI, but I can tell you my driving is about as precise as a tactical nuke! :nervous: Methinks if I participated in this, my garage would dwindle faster than my bank balance...
 
I can see that one ending in blows... While the idea has merit, I don't know how many people would be happy to lose their car. Racing AI is one thing, but racing another person? I might be able to dust the AI, but I can tell you my driving is about as precise as a tactical nuke! :nervous: Methinks if I participated in this, my garage would dwindle faster than my bank balance...

It'd teach you how to bet and how to become a better driver. I like that idea, but it's a shame that the only game that I've seen have that feature was Need for Speed High Stakes which was made ages ago. It's time for a next-gen game featuring pink slip racing.
 
I think it would make the game too easy to make money and to build up your garage.

True, I own Juiced on PS2 and when I win heaps of pink slip races it just makes the game ridiculously easy to go through, due to the amounts of money accumulated when selling cars.
 
Let it be known that I like this show. Would this work in GT5? No. As much as I think the people have some wonderful cars up for grabs, I don't see this working in GT5. Here's your model in action using two hypothetical drivers:

Rich Christensen ("Pinks" host): What are you looking for in this race?
Team A: I say we go heads up.
RC (to Driver B): Are you going to give him a Heads-Up race?
Team B: No, we can't go heads up. He/She got a much faster car than mine. Three lengths at best.
RC: Will you take the three lengths for this pass?
Team A: Hell no! That is an 11-second car while we have this bone stock car on street radials.
RC: Will you split and go for one and a half length?
Team B: We'll do it.
RC: Kail, head to the finish line. Let's race!

I don't see this for single play. It would be better for multiplayer whether online or offline. It would be a strange deal to use pure race cars like LMPS and GTPs. The game will NEED drag racing because Pinks is a drag racing show. Everything from muscle cars to compacts have competed on the show. Something like this would be fun for multiplayer, but not single play. Events like this shouldn't count as part of your normal win/loss count. And if you recall from one of my past posts, I noted that the win/loss ratio should be eliminated because I think it puts extra pressure on you to do your absolute best.
 
It would make online racing even more interesting than it would be normally (but hell, getting online GT racing will be a dream come true within itself). But yeah, as mentioned above, if it's put in at all, it would have to be implemented carefully and correctly. I wouldn't mind seeing it, but it doesn't matter to me.
 
I'd rather see wagering credits online, even in non races like best lap time uploaded in a certain time period(1hour, 1 day, 1 week, whatever)

btw, can you go bankrupt and unplayable in any GT game? I think with pinks you could.
 
I think it would make the game too easy to make money and to build up your garage. I already think the game is too easy to build up in, and I think that's one of the games problems. The AI is simply put, too easy to beat, now to do it against a human player online, that's another story. Alternatively if they did do pink slips in the GT mode then I'd rather see it as a challenge thing, ie you get challenged once every so many game weeks, months or years or something (but not frequently) and that way you can't easilly just win back another car should you lose yours, you'll have to wait a long time and that's puts the seriousness of it into perspective. Alternatively you couldn't use it as a cash cow and just win car after car after car really easilly.
Well, my response would be that you are a very good player, indeed. Or, at least, much better than me. :) Kudos.

But, why shouldn't you be rewarded for that?

My perception is that presently A-spec points are meaningless except for "bragging rights" and, even there, it is possible to cheat.

Under my proposed scheme, which could perhaps be an option that could be toggled on or off, one could set a certain A-spec minimum for "pink slip" races. Let's say one went to the extreme and set 200 A-spec points for a race (assuming the same criteria as GT4) as the qualifying point for a pink slip race. Also assuming bugs like the Dodge Ram are eliminated, are you saying that even the above-average player would find "the game too easy to make money and to build up your garage" with a series of 200-point A-spec races? If that were the case it seems to me that there would be a much higher percentage of 100K+ A-spec players (than there seems to be).

In GT4 I think there is too much meaningless repetition of championships or games where one can "quickly" rack up the couple of million or so credits needed to buy one of the more exotic cars. Given the number of desirable exotic cars, there's a lot of boring credit gathering that needs to be done in the game. But what if that process could be short-cut for really good players (like youself)? I think the more numerous "average" players would find it quite daunting. I could easily imagine a situation in which a player mods his/her LMP prize car to the max in order to take on the more-than-equal AI in a 200-point A-spec race or championship in the Extreme Hall and loses by a narrow margin. Poof! There goes one's hard-earned car (or, Heaven Forbid, one of the irreplaceable Driving Mission or game percentage completed prize cars) and it could take the player days or weeks to amass enough credits to have another go at the pink slip race. That hardly seems an easy way to amass credits or fill one's garage but it could be a highly rewarding quest for the superior player.

This feature would also give A-spec points some purpose beyond on-line gaming, most particularly for the single player.

On a related topic, someone asked if (using this proposed feature) one could go bankrupt and be unable to play the game any longer? Actually, I think that would be a desirable feature in that it adds the element of "risk" to the game play. In the extreme case of a player bankrupted by pink slip racing, why not just have the game restart itself? In other words, the bankrupt player gets his/her licenses "revoked" (and completed missions erased) and is given a 10K credit stake and has to start a brand-new game on the same memory card?
 
I think this betting schema is criminally-bound.

Also, it leads to depression when losing. Is just like gambling.

Lose a car.. right. Bet your wife later. A good idea until you LOSE it. And you will. Nobody wins all the time.
 
No I stand by wha I said, it will certainly screw up the balance of the game, making it far too easy to fill your garage with good cars. Even with a 200 a-spec point limit, there are plenty of car/race combinations in GT4 where you can win a 200 point race with relavtive ease. As for people having over 100k a spec points I don't, not because I can't but because I can't be bothered with GT4, there is imo a big problem with GT4 but it isn't that the a-spec points are flawed, it isn't that it's already too easy, it's got nothing to do with that. It's that the races themselves are boring, and will continue to be boring whether your racing for a pink slip or not. The only difference is, winning that one pink slip race will net you a brand new car whereas you would otherwise have to win a series of maybe 5 or 10 races for the same result.
 
No I stand by wha I said, it will certainly screw up the balance of the game, making it far too easy to fill your garage with good cars. Even with a 200 a-spec point limit, there are plenty of car/race combinations in GT4 where you can win a 200 point race with relavtive ease. As for people having over 100k a spec points I don't, not because I can't but because I can't be bothered with GT4, there is imo a big problem with GT4 but it isn't that the a-spec points are flawed, it isn't that it's already too easy, it's got nothing to do with that. It's that the races themselves are boring, and will continue to be boring whether your racing for a pink slip or not. The only difference is, winning that one pink slip race will net you a brand new car whereas you would otherwise have to win a series of maybe 5 or 10 races for the same result.
That's why I made the suggestion that the racing-for-pinks concept could be equally (or exclusively) applied to championships. As you put it one would still have to win a series of 5 or ten races to win a car but in this case it would be a new and different car instead of the same old one -- which you then have to turn around and sell for a ridiculously small amount of credits in order save up enough to buy the other car.
 
i would have settled for paying "entry" money into an event (higher event with more prize money = higher cost), and then u can pick one of the cars u raced against to win at the end of the championship if u win it..
 
This topic is getting out of control.

First thing I see is that racing for pinks would only apply to a live opponent either online or splitscreen.

Second thing I see is that Mr 1/4 mile up there needs to understand that it's pinks for any type of race. Not drag racing. GT has always been about the encyclopedia of cars on a closed circuit tracks with a set number of laps.

Third thing I see is if someone has gambling problem, playing GT for money or pinks has no real life impact on assets. Noone is going to lose actual money in the game, just the credits and/or time it takes to earn those credits.

Fourth thing I see is there aren't a whole lot of constructive ideas on how to make this work.

The online race screen experience should post up like a chat room with the players and there cars listed and viewable. The option to bet for pinks against any of the 8+ racers should look something like

Player--Car--Pink Race

1 civic challenge by "racer 4"
2 miata challenge by "racer 3"
3 cobalt challenge to "racer 2"
4 accord accept player 1 challenge?
|
8

In the above example racers 2 and 3 have agreed to a pinkslip challenge. Racer 1 has issued a challenge to racer 4 who has not yet accepted.

This isn't rocket science and the choice to race for pinks can be done on the fly. You don't need to be worried about earning cash early and easy by "pinks racing" if it's limited to online or live opponents only. And most importantly, if you can't handle the heat... get off the line.
 
The only form of this "pinks" i would like to see is being able to chose the colour of the prize car, im getting really frustrated trying to get a blue Chevelle in GT4, have at least 2-3 of most other colours, choosing the colour would be just lovely.
 
First of all, don't call me "Mr. 1/4 mile." I don't know these things as religiously as most illegal street racing types do. Don't discredit me only because I am not as knowledgable as you or others around you think. Having said this, my apologies for thinking this is a drag racing-only deal. I just used the TV series "Pinks" as a reference when I first thought of this issue. And that's it.

But again, I think this is something that would really shine from a multiplayer perspective and not so much offline single-player racing against someone in a match race like in "Pro Race Driver." Pro Race Driver... worst memories of match races- trying to win at Barcelona in a one-on-one TVR Tuscan race. But much worse (sorry if I offend anyone) was a Toyota GT-One match race where I had to race around Charlotte's oval against a NASCAR-type driver. This "racing for pinks" deal should work VERY well in online play. It may also be good in LAN and single-screen two-player action (unless PD drops this totally).

I just want to say this one last time- just because I don't know as much doesn't mean that I need to be blasted by someone. It does pay to politely and positively set me straight. I'll only be a gentleman if you be a gentleman/lady as well. So if you dig that, carry on this discussion.
 
JohnBM01,

I'll agree with you in that the "Pinks" aspect of online play would truly shine.

You and I are now guilty of publicly stereotyping each other. I offer my apology for that, and that alone. Haphazard name calling isn't considered blasting someone to me. I will only discredit you if you misinterpret what I say and try to run a post with it. What others discern of you in a forum such as this is, and can only be, based on the post you present. In that light, is not accurate knowledge what creates credibility in the first place?

Don't worry your pretty little heart, I'm not about to start a flame war over a topic we agree on. :sly:
 
Since I intend to use the heck out of the mod and paint shop on all my cars, no deal.
 
at first i disagreed with this but actually i think it would be a good idea only for gt hd though because youve got to buy almost every single car and track...

so one way to do so is win cars from other people online :)
 
this would be completely inappropriate. The bottom line is all the seasoned GT fans will find it too easy and any new players will be overcome promptly and lose interest aswell. If this is to work, it has to be adjustable for driving skill and importantly, optional
 
At first I thought - only if GT5 comes with a paintshop, bodyshop and a selection of dragstrips, and even then only against real opponents. It would be nice to win someone elses prized, and heavily modified race car.

...but if it was to start there, eventually it could lead to all sorts of real world trouble. Newbies/inexperienced players abandoning GT as they are unable to compete with the big boys, pink slips progressing to real money changing hands, gambling debts, payoffs for deliberately losing unique vehicles - I'm sure Sony/Polyphony don't want to go down that route.

Reading through the thread, I eventually came up with this scenario:
In single player GT mode we already have the Beginner/Amatuer/Professional Leagues. Add to this a new Privateer League.
Currently the entry requirements for a race includes License and vehicle requirements. Add to this an entry fee.
The grand prize for winning a race is the total of all the entry fees. Thus a 2 car rally/drag race sees the winner double his money, and a 10 car endurance race gives a much bigger payoff. Add the obligatory prize car, and a prize for winning the championship financed by the spectators.
To keep the cost/prize reasonably fair, have the Beginners League free to enter, Amatuer cost low, and Professional race costs high.
The new privateer league allows you to put your car on the line both physically and metaphorically. Lose the race, lose the car. Win the race, trailer your new car(s) home.
To prevent the player getting to the stage of bankruptcy, only allow entry to a privateer race when they have spare cars in their garage. That coupled with the beginners league being free to enter should ensure that the player always has a car and somewhere to race it.
 
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