Racing Themed Mid Range PC / Simvibe & General Gaming

[Mr Latte]

Appreciate any advice or thoughts...
Bit of a user blog below.

PC Built as of mid May / GPU Added October 2016

So Im in the process of picking and accumulating components for a long overdue system build.
This system will play a key role in what I am calling


Performance & Budget Focused Build
I have been out of the PC gaming scene for some time, while my last system 3 years ago was rather high end this time my budget is limited. I want to help illustrate with this build what can be achieved for a mid level system and when shopping around for good deals on hardware. Feel free to join in or comment at any time but I do not want to go into detail about Simvibe here.

If your moving from Console-PC focused gaming or indeed for "Sim Racing" then this thread may have some interest for you. My own system will mainly be for racing titles and Simvibe usage with visuals displayed on a 1080p HDTV.

Focus at this time is a good base to build on and use internal 530HD graphics temporarily (stop Laughing) to allow me to at least get the other main components and start doing tests with Simvibe for my desired tactile configuration. I want a decent performance system so importance also goes on the CPU/Motherboard that can be built upon later with good GPU but also something which is visually striking.


(For those interested in following I have updated the items purchased)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE:
Purchased So Far:

• Focusrite 18i8 Professional USB Digital Recording Interface
• Intel i7 6700K
• Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 7 Intel Socket 1151
• Cooler Master G750M
• Corsair Spec Alpha Case (Red/White)
• 2x 4 GB Ballistix 2400 Mhz DDR4 (Red)
• 2x 4 GB Ballistix 2400 MHz DDR4 (White)
• Deepcool 240 CPU Cooler (White)
• Asus Xonar DGX PCI Express 5.1 (Simvibe Extensions Mode)
• Basic USB 5.1 Soundcard (Game audio when Simvibe used)
• Samsung EVO 850 2.5" 250GB SATA III SSD
• Samsung Slim USB External DVD

--------------------------------------------------------------------

(Previously)

So far....
Found a nice spec motherboard with good on-board audio THIS
Got a great offer on it with a FREE PSU and while I understand the PSU is not the best it should do the job.


Being Considered:
Not decided yet on CPU cooler if going for Corsair Hydro or Heatsink/Fan based.
I have seen that i5 overclocking to 4.5 or higher should be possible/stable but I would prefer to have good stability over max possible overclock.

Asus TURBO GTX 970 would be in the region I would like to get in time but curious when the newest GFX may arrive offering a better performance for similar money? So willing to hold out but will take time to gather the necessary funds any-ways. I do eventually want 60FPS+ on Assetto Corsa/Dirt Rally with MAX settings for 1080p but not sure if say a GTX 960 is good enough?

What would you do different or recommend?

 

[Lion-Face]

I built a budget gaming desktop last year with a similar thought process in mind, to start with a CPU, run on integrated graphics, and then upgrade the GPU at a later date.

I ended up going with an AMD A8-7600K as my CPU. Gaming performance easily outperformed any of the Intel CPU's when running integrated graphics, and it then gave me the option to run a AMD card for dual graphics, or go all out and buy a more powerful graphics card and disable the on board graphics.

I would look at the AMD A10-7850k or 7870k as an alternative. I feel you will be disappointed with trying to run games on the Intel HD graphics. Might be worth looking into, depending on how soon you plan to have the machine up and running games.

In saying that, I am no expert on PC gaming. I did a lot of research on budget PC building at the time with room to expand, and I am happy with my results. The main goal was a Photoshop PC with gaming on the side, which it runs quite nicely.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks will look more into it, yes I believe that AMD has much better integrated video.

Although I am rather surprised to discover from YT videos showing benchmarking the HD530 intel integrated with lowest details will manage approx 40 fps on AC in 1080p and about 30ish with P Cars in 720p. I think having the DDR4 if I buy a good speed of RAM will help with the integrated performance too but yes still much behind the AMD A8

First priority for the system is to begin doing what I want regards Simvibe and I need specific audio hardware for this, costing more than a GTX 970 does. So the fun gaming on the PC will have to wait. I will enjoy Dirt/Assetto Corsa/P Cars on PS4 for my fun till then.

Does the integrated solutions support 2 monitors, eg: primary screen and touch-screen for Simvibe?

 

[Lion-Face]

Since I don't use my PC for racing games, I went and downloaded rFactor2 demo just as a trial to see how it would perform.

My system is currently

AMD A8-7650k (not overclocked)
AMD R7-250 graphics (2GB DDR3) - this was added 6 months after building pc as a 2nd hand pickup.
16GB DDR3-1866mhz ram - started with 8, went to 16 when I hit limitations in photoshop, gaming performance hasn't changed since going to 16gb.
120gb Intel 530series SSD

I initially started with just the A8-7650k and picked up the R7-250 as a cheap 2nd hand purchase to run games in a Dual Graphics setup. I believe though, you could buy both the CPU and GPU for less than the i5.

At 1080p, the demo defaulted most of the settings to high in rFactor2, and ran the game at around 45fps @1080p. The grid started at approx 35fps then crept up to about 45fps on average with just over 50fps as a peak. rFactor2 isn't the best looking game on the block, but it was the only demo I could get easily of a recent driving sim.

To give you an idea, other games I play on my PC at 1080p, Warthunder runs approx 35fps on high settings and Heroes of the Storm bounces between 45-60fps on med-high settings.

You can use dual monitors on the AMD integrated graphics depending on your motherboard video output. I imagine the intel HD graphics would be the same but haven't tested that.

 

[sesselpupser]

If you're using a 1080p 60Hz monitor I really wouldn't recommend a GTX 970 myself, unless you plan to upgrade to either a higher resolution or higher refresh soon. I use a 960 and while it can't max out Dirt Rally or Assetto Corsa on that kind of monitor, I've found the difference between my settings and max settings to be completely inconsequential and absolutely not worth spending double the amount for a graphics card on.

In addition, Pascal (the next generation of Nvidia cards) is supposedly right around the corner - I know this is always the case - so I'd recommend buying a cheaper card so you could feasibly sell it when the Pascal equivalent to the 970 is out and upgrade. I say this because it looks like the jump from Maxwell to Pascal will be more significant than the jump from Kepler to Maxwell was, so if I were you I'd want to minimise the 'damn, I wish I'd waited' pain. 960s are £170 or so here, though, which isn't all that expensive really. And then there's also the possibility that you could keep it and run it as a PhysX card afterwards.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks for your thoughts gents.
I feel more swayed to the intel as being the better system later down the road with a proper GPU and the performance of the i5 6600 seems great for its price. Yes the AMD onboard is much better for my situation now but I have to plan for the future more with the build. THIS would of suited the style with the combination if all a bit Ferrari looking.

You help highlight the issue and my own thoughts towards the newer cards coming. Possibly the replacement for the GTX 960 could be as fast as the current GTX970? If so then the value of the current cards will drop dramatically, bringing the GTX970 version of the card shown to a more affordable price 2nd hand. So holding off for me might be sensible, not that I have much choice as really the funds at this moment are not available and the GPU performance can be increased later.

Experimenting with Simvibe is the top priority. Being able to monitor/record/analyse its output (other hardware) for growing my understanding of it. Then to use this knowledge best within the rather extreme tactile cockpit configuration that I have.

I assume this audio hardware will be suitable and I am trying to avoid same brand cards or driver issues:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Simvibe
Onboard Audio for Chassis
Asus Xonar DGX PCI for Extensions
USB Star-Tech for Game Audio

Revert to on-board audio for music etc when Simvibe not being used.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any thoughts on the best value CPU cooler options to sustain an i5 6600 @ 4.5 Ghz
Also what RAM speed or cheapest option if overclocking to this level?

 

[sesselpupser]

@Mr Latte, a few points:

- I think you'll find a scroll fan cooler like the one you linked will be louder and less efficient at cooling your card than a multi-fan cooler, they do have the advantage of being more controlled in that almost all the air they draw in is expelled out of the back of your case (multi-fan coolers tend to be a bit more chaotic and can raise the temperature inside your case very, very slightly) but honestly that's not a big enough effect to be worth trading on noise and poorer cooling.

- I think it's a pretty safe bet that the 1060 (if that's what they call it) will be at least nearly as good as a 970, since the 960 is pretty much as good as my old 680 was, and that was rebranded as a 770 (with a modest speed bump). If the jump from Maxwell to Pascal is supposed to be bigger than Kepler to Maxwell then it stands to reason that the 1060 could be really great, but no one really knows yet. In any case, I still think a 960 is as high as anyone needs to go with a 1080p 60Hz monitor. Anything faster or higher resolution than that, though, and the 960's comparative lack of performance would really start to show.

- Do you need to overclock the 6600? That seems like jumping the gun if you haven't tried it yet. I've got a Noctua NH-U9S on my 4690K which isn't overclocked (I had been using a stock fan that was too loud for my liking and figured I might as well get a cooler that'll allow for overclocking if I ever need to) which was £50, I don't know how hot Skylake runs when overclocked but the Hyper 212 Evo was supposedly not quite good enough to take Haswell to 4.5GHz hence why I spent £50 instead of just over half that on the 212 Evo.

 

[Ibonibo]

Skylakes do run very cold. I run idle at 30° with a room temp probably around 22°. On load it varies from 40-50° depending the load. Not gone over 50° with the biggest Noctua Fan at very low speeds.

Mine is not overclocked yet. But Skylakes do not run very hot. Especially with a good cooler.

On the cooling side of things, everyone is hyped with those AIO Water cooling solutions. While their fans do run quiet, most pumps do not! I seen benchmarks with the dominant AIO WC against some air coolers.

Temp difference was in the 1° range and the air coolers were quieter!

I would recommend going the Skylake route. Look for a second hand Nvidia 5xx -6xx GTX and tzhen upgrade to Pascal when available.

I now have on my old rig i7920 a 570GTX card in it. I can run Pcars and Assetto Corsa at 1080p@+60fps with most set to high-very high.

I think while the 9xx range has good clocks to run most games in 1080p @ xx fps, even above 100frames, something that lacks with cards like the 970gtx and above is the vram on it.

4Gb has become limit in some games if you running post effects, AA, .... The new Tomb raider doesn't run well on my 970gtx with textures set to ultra

I think Pascal will remedy that.

As for the RAM : no need to go to 3000Mhz. I got 4x8GB @ 2400MHz DDR4 with 15-...Timings...
(was 2x8Gb Kits for 90€ +- (+VAT)

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks for your time and help guys, read over your points and appreciate any further input you can give on my considerations.

With news just recently it seems the new GFX cards are expected for mid-late summer. That will maybe work well for me to consider the 1060 or perhaps get a bargain on a 970/960 with people upgrading.

The i5 6600k seems to very easy/stable to over-clock, certainly the UK is filled with PC vendors selling bundles with guaranteed over-clocks of 4.5- 4.8GHz. My last system 3 years ago was an i7 with H100 @ 4.5 GHz. Going to hold out a bit for the CPU price to perhaps drop or keep an eye out for a good deal. I have already saved quite a bit of money buy shopping around for offers.

New considerations:


Cooling Air:
Alpenfohn Matterhorn looks like a decent cooler, completely in all white so cosmetically nice for the build.

Cooling Water:
Costing about £40 more, which isn't bad is the new Deepcool Captain 120, or the 240 again in white (ooohhhh).
Reports from reviews point to temps likely to be in the 5-10 degrees favour for the water option depending on the load for the CPU. Though either option should be okay for the 4.5Ghz target.

RAM
I have taken the advice given and bit surprised to find YT videos benchmarking RAM 2400-3000 in various games and the difference at best was a couple of frames in some titles. Many titles showed no difference in FPS at all. Also that over 8GB brings no real benefits for gaming FPS neither going by the videos I watched.

Money saved here sticking with the below could go towards the better water-cooling option.

Crucial Ballistix Sport LT DDR4 8GB (2x4GB) DIMM 288-pin
2400 MHz/PC4-19200 CL16 1.2V unbuffered

I feel a Ferrari based theme coming on with all the Red/White.

​

 

[Mr Latte]

Hardware from first post arrived (YAY!)

Being tied to a limited budget but shopping around pays dividends. Most components now sorted. My FM6 Xbone console has had to go in favour of some more components and got some good deals...

Newly Purchsed:

• DeepCool 240 White Liquid CPU Cooler from Ebuyer £60
• Crucial Ballistix Sport LT DDR4 8GB (2x4GB) from Kikatek £32
• Corsair Carbide SPEC ALPHA Mid-Tower Gaming Case - White/Red from PC Nation £72
• Microsoft All-In-One Media Keyboard £24

Was hard to resist the liquid cooler for £30 cheaper than the Corsair H100v2 and costing not much more than some heatsink coolers. Seems to get a decent review...

 

[Mr Latte]

Here is an article I found regards using 4 fan push/pull on a radiator Vs just standard 2 fan push method.
Aparently more fans at lower RPM can mean less noise...
Push Vs Push Pull

I am not quite yet sure if I can easily mount a 240 radiator with push/pull on the (Spec Alpha) case without any modifications. Have the idea to use the standard "Red Led Fans" for the front and use additional white (non led) on the radiators other side.

 

[Mr Latte]

The SPEC ALPHA case is getting a lot of hate in several popular pc/hardware forums, I know its cheap metal with plastic low quality build but I actually like its unusual styling and striking design. Here is a closer look at it...

 

[Rallywagon]

I'd just like to chime in on the memory thing. What, besides the game, do you plan on running in the back ground. Do you want to record for YouTube? If you are just gaming, then 8gigs is fine. But the more background processes (simvibe, secondary audio software, recording, web browser, etc.) the more RAM you will want.

 

[Mr Latte]

I'd just like to chime in on the memory thing. What, besides the game, do you plan on running in the back ground. Do you want to record for YouTube? If you are just gaming, then 8gigs is fine. But the more background processes (simvibe, secondary audio software, recording, web browser, etc.) the more RAM you will want.

Hi thanks for commenting.
Yes I may have an issue with 8GB if I try to do everything on this system. I could use a laptop for the audio recording/monitoring but here is what I primarily need to do.

Running a sim game with Simvibe on an external monitor.
Recording from 1-8 channels in real-time from Simvibe via USB interface into a DAW (Reaper/FL12). I am not sure how CPU/RAM intensive a DAW is and if monitoring/recording in 16/24 bit for mainly 4 channels.

Most hardware recording options are limited to 2 Channel/Stereo but I want to at least be able to monitor/record Simvibe Chassis across ALL4 with a low latency professional hardware interface.

Crucial have just released the red edition of the ram. While I already have 2x4GB in white Im kinda suckered into getting these partially for the aesthetics and white/red theme of the build. They are affordable so might be worth having. I hope 16GB would be enough to do all you mention on this system but if not and CPU or other factors are an issue then recording/monitoring can be done on the laptop. Then transferring recorded files to this system for full analysis and the work that I will be doing.

 

[Rallywagon]

16GB I think will do just fine. I would also suggest as others have, getting a proper G card. Even if it's just a cheaper Radeon as opposed to running on board graphics. Running a game, and the games graphics, even at 4.5GHz is going to tax that proc. I'm kinda surprised it doesn't hyperthread. That would have probably helped save the day.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks @Rallywagon I have since looked into minimum specs for some of the popular DAW available. My laptop will run them for all that I need to be doing. So that may be the better option and hold out for the newer cards in summer.

I could spend about £100+ on a XFX7970 but then it will only be hard to sell in 4-6 months time and it is possible that the market will get flooded with 960/970 cards making a better 2nd hand purchase in a few months time.

Or if I decide to get the mid priced option in the newer 1080 based series.

 

[Mr Latte]

More bargains....
Looks similar to the STARTECH 7.1 model but this basic 5.1 Channel USB External Soundcard was 1/3rd the price at an amazing £7.95. Will use as the 3rd audio card when running Simvibe. If it sounds terrible it isn't much of a loss.



Samsung USB Ext DVD £16.95
With the SPEC ALPHA having no DVD slot this will be useful for some occasions



Below is a popular product for small bands and those into home recordings.

This seems one of the best options for my own personal Simvibe investigating.
I will be able to fully monitor and record all effects output in great detail over all Chassis and Extension channels used.

While not a specific PC component it is very important for the reason of this build.

 

[Mr Latte]

First post now updated with more info and purchases added...

 

[Mr Latte]

Not sure if anyone can add to this with their own experiences?
With some extra research I found reports that doing push/pull adding extra fans may only reduce temps around 3 degrees. I suppose it all depends on the system but I like the idea of more at slower speed/noise than fewer at high speeds.

Is this a good configuration?
2x SP for intake on the Radiator
2x AF for blowing the air into the case
1x AF for 3rd fan below the radiator
1x AF for rear exhaust

(* Dual fans above the board are possible but looks cramped for space)
(** I intend to do a shround over the PSU and along the bottom so will not use a floor fan)

 

[Rallywagon]

Linus tech tips on YouTube a couple of months back did a segment on just that. And what you says is correct. With no fans, the temps went sky high, the biggest drops in temp came when one fans intakes, and one exhausts, each fan after only helped by a small margin. Three proper case fans should work fine in most situations. This of course, is in addition to CPU heatsink and GPU heatsink fans, whether it be air or liquid cooled.
Edit:
Turns out they have two vids on the subject...



And here is something a little extra...

This one is about building a silent gaming rig.

Edit 2:
OK, seems the first video is just about configuring the fans around a liquid cooler radiator.
Personally, I have two fans feeding air in, one in the front of the case, one in the back, then I have one fan exhausting out the top. My AMD 8350 usually sits around 55°c under load, 20°+- at idle. On the stock low rise heatsink/fan. I also have slightly unique setup though, in that my GPU, an MSI R9 380, is liquid cooled as opposed to my CPU. With PSU at the top of my case, I don't have to worry about moving cold air over my g card. I just put the rad on the door fan slot, and a fan outside of the cas3, pulling air through the rad. Under load, neither the CPU or GPU get over 60° or even to it. The mobo usually sits around 38° and same with the case ambient temp.
This is open to change if you are doing things like over clocking RAM or have some crazy storage server set up where you need to cool your hhds.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks for your comments and links friend...

First proper review of the case I have found Here and contains video overview also.
Seems to offer pretty decent cooling in stock so adding the better fans in push/pull and the 3rd fan at the bottom should keep my components cool.

 

[Mr Latte]

I am keeping an eye on a possible bargin HD 7950 that could keep me going for a while.

This news however is interesting....

AMD Polaris 10 GPU 'performs close to' NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti

 

[Mr Latte]

My poor little Corsair Spec Alpha case arrived but seemingly got mobbed by the Tifosi
(I moved order from PC Nation to Scan.co.uk as they got stock in)

Ferrari Spec Alpha

Wont be to everyone's taste but I like how its turned out so far. The angles used on the front/top of the case don't quite get captured properly in photos.

The red is really bold, strong and sharp. So if it appears dull, kinda orange or odd tone just ignore. I plan to do some tweaking inside the case too, waiting on Corsair LED fans arriving with 3x red for front 1x white for rear.

 

[Mr Latte]

@Rallywagon watched all the videos you posted regards fans and cooling.
I am looking forward to start building within the incoming month once the processor is purchased.

I have decided to remove the standard fans from the case.
Going to try the following configuration first and then if needed consider push/pull on the radiator:

Rear Exhaust = 1x AF 120 White LED
Front Bottom = 1x AF 120 Red LED
Front Radiator = 2x SP 120 Red LED

 

[Mr Latte]

Look who had a baby...

 

[Mr Latte]

Good news, all chuffed that I finally got the "audio monitoring/recording" hardware solution for Simvibe purchased. I went for the above Focusrite 18i8 as found a sweet deal. It is a lot of money to spend on monitoring Simvibe audio output but I feel it is necessary for the work I want to do with it.

CPU will be the next purchase and then the PC can be built but have been looking into the GPU situation as well.

I have found the current selling prices for GPU both Nvidia/AMD found on ebay are generally too high for being 2nd hand. Many selling for around £90-£100 for a decent card. I don't want to spend too much with the upcoming new cards but have to take the advice given that trying to do the audio/monitoring of Simvibe via a DAW, having a game running on the HD530 onboard graphics may be too taxing.

Would be nice to be able to perhaps do everything on one machine (if possible) but a decent budget card now would keep me going for several months for the newer options to arrive and gradually fall in price too. I will have to wait this incoming month and see what news comes out about the new 2016 cards but also consider the option below...

Seems I can get a brand new 950Ti with included mild/over-clocking for approx £120. Benchmarks/videos seem to show the card is not far off a GTX 960 but is now £40-£60 cheaper than many of the GTX 960 based cards. Seems good enough for my single 1080p display and high-ultra settings on most titles with the i5/i7 Skylake CPU. The Gigabyte Extreme 950 Ti model seems to be amongst the best but I like this slightly lower clocked one below for its size/aesthetics for the build.

So cute and tiny!!!

 

[Mr Latte]

16GB I think will do just fine. I would also suggest as others have, getting a proper G card. Even if it's just a cheaper Radeon as opposed to running on board graphics. Running a game, and the games graphics, even at 4.5GHz is going to tax that proc. I'm kinda surprised it doesn't hyperthread. That would have probably helped save the day.

Thanks again for you input in this thread @Rallywagon.
I found that hyperthreading is used on many of the DAW software available. Also from studying videos on YT it seems it can help a bit with the gaming performance or maintaining framerates on some titles at least.

The budget didn't really cover for the additional expense over the i5 but today the PS4 has now been traded in with some other bits enabling this to be got with a 2 year warranty.

So looks like the specs for this little machine now wont be bad at all and certainly better than I originally had expected. Hoping to get a start on the build this weekend as the fans have also arrived.

 

[Rallywagon]

Glad my info helped @Mr Latte. I'm assuming that's the 6700k? Should keep you rocking solid for years to come. Intel is changing some of their philosophies and will be making less powerful, more efficient procs, not unlike the Atom, in the future, so it is very likely that for home PC's this will stay the gold standard for quite a while. Hyperthreading is also becoming more prevalent, so more games and apps are becoming optimized for it. The 6700k overclocks pretty well as well

 

[20832]

Glad my info helped @Mr Latte. I'm assuming that's the 6700k? Should keep you rocking solid for years to come. Intel is changing some of their philosophies and will be making less powerful, more efficient procs, not unlike the Atom, in the future, so it is very likely that for home PC's this will stay the gold standard for quite a while. Hyperthreading is also becoming more prevalent, so more games and apps are becoming optimized for it. The 6700k overclocks pretty well as well

Agreed! The 6700k is a beast!

If you haven't purchased the card yet @Mr Latte, maybe check eBay for a R9 280/285/280x or 290. Maybe you're lucky to find a good deal. If so, make sure to either get a Gigabyte card or, even better, a Sapphire card. That way you would pay about the same and are getting better performance out of it. It, of course, depends on your power supply. Don't even bother with a 290 if you have below 500W. (Edit: Just saw that you have a 750W PSU, so a 290 is certainly an option if it fits within the budget)
But it's just a decent alternative while offering very good performance and decent VRAM for a low budget.

 

[Mr Latte]

Hi again guys, I know its not a big exciting build but is for me being away from PC for so long, nice to have you here to talk it over and share with.

Yes it is the 6700K and has been a large part of the budget but I know it will serve well for a good while. I have upgraded the RAM to 16GB and updated the (1st post system purchases)


As for the GPU I have done a LOT of researching reviews of many cards in trying to find the best performance that I could for the £100 range. The concern I had was that some cards could be got a bit less going back to the 79 or 78 series but these were several years old now and other finds like the 270 280x or GTX 770 even the GTX 950 were not that much more expensive. Although not knowing if people may of had high over-clocks on them but in some cases the asking prices people have for 2nd hand cards is similar even higher than some current offers available for a new card of similar performance.

The GTX960 or 280X seemed to be as good as I could get for just over the money I wanted to spend but discovered some 950TI cards in benchmarks were pretty much bang on the GTX960 performance and I can get these NEW for just over £100 - £140 Depending on the model/offer.

These will likely not over the next month go up in price but I want to see what the release schedule for the newest cards may turn out to be. I will not have the funds for a card now for perhaps another month or more any-ways and in which time perhaps more news will be available with the new ones due this year.

Not an Nvidia fanboy but think they have this price-point covered best (this may change).

Example One
Example Two
Example Three

Feel free to discuss or link others if you want.