Raikkonen return to F1?

[prisonermonkeys]

Petrov does spin out quite a bit when hes pushing it and sometime when he isn't. Remember race before monza? span cos he wanted to see if water was in the kurbing and didn't catch the slide. THe first few races this year revolved around the mechanics doing repairs on his car after practice or after qualy constantly.

Spa was the first time he spun since Canada. He span it in Melbourne, China, Montreal and Spa, so how can you say he "spins out quite a bit" when he's only turned it around four times in fourteen races? And while he had to have a few rebuilds in China and Monaco, it hasn't happens since. If you want a rookie who can't cut it, look at Nico Hulkenberg. He's been all over the place since he began, and he's consistently proven to be his own worst enemy.

Raikkonen might bring a bit of speed to Renault, but he's a terrible fit. He doesn't like doing development work, refuses to do PR stuff if he can avoid it, and he won't fit into a team built around Robert Kubica. His interest will most likely come and go with the team's success, making him more of a liability than anything else. He'll be good when he has a decent weekend, but he'll phone it in when things go badly. It's what he did at Ferrari. I'd rather have a Vitaly Petrov who spins once a weekend and needs a rebuild every other race than a Kimi who doesn't care about racing if things looking like they might be rough. It was pretty obvious in 2009 that his heart wasn't in it.

 

[The Outlaw]

Spa was the first time he spun since Canada. He span it in Melbourne, China, Montreal and Spa, so how can you say he "spins out quite a bit" when he's only turned it around four times in fourteen races? And while he had to have a few rebuilds in China and Monaco, it hasn't happens since. If you want a rookie who can't cut it, look at Nico Hulkenberg. He's been all over the place since he began, and he's consistently proven to be his own worst enemy..

Nico at least has some speed though and has continued to improve by a fair bit (now often performing as well if not better than Ruben's), not to mention the fact that he is also 3 years younger than Petrov. IMO Petrov is no better (and possibly slower) than the former GP2 flukes (Piquet Jr. and Grosjean) who tried out for Renault...he just got lucky enough to have a good car under him (which is also very easy to drive) unlike the other two who weren't as fortunate (especially Grosjean).

Petrov is getting out performed by his teammate worse (of the established teams) than any of the other drivers on the grid in both qualy and in races.

-------------------------Kubica---Petrov---Barichello--Hulkenburg

Avg qualifying position: 6.8-------14.6-------10.2-----------11.4
Avg finishing position: 5.75-------11.55-------10-----------12.27
Avg time gap in Q2: -----X--------+.80--------X-----------+.19
(Between teammates)

BTW, I didn't inlcude DNF's in the avgerages.

Raikkonen might bring a bit of speed to Renault, but he's a terrible fit. He doesn't like doing development work, refuses to do PR stuff if he can avoid it, and he won't fit into a team built around Robert Kubica. His interest will most likely come and go with the team's success, making him more of a liability than anything else. He'll be good when he has a decent weekend, but he'll phone it in when things go badly. It's what he did at Ferrari. I'd rather have a Vitaly Petrov who spins once a weekend and needs a rebuild every other race than a Kimi who doesn't care about racing if things looking like they might be rough. It was pretty obvious in 2009 that his heart wasn't in it.

Why would you want a driver who can't get results? Raikkonen would kill Petrov (in terms of results) even on his worst day.

Regarding Raikkonen in 2009- If his heart wasn't in it he did pretty damn well considering the car he was given I would have liked to have seen Petrov do what Kimi did (Fisichella couldn't do a damn thing).

 

[Ardius]

Its interesting to note that the 3 rookies in the established teams are next to each other in the WDC. They are almost in reverse order to their car's WCC standing. A few more good races for Hulkenburg and it will be.

Kobayashi has far out-performed his machinery and his teammate, even from the word go last year. He's beaten Trulli and De La Rosa and now we will have a very good benchmark teammate with Heidfeld.

Hulkenburg has steadily improved, now he is at the point where he is close to his teammate, if not beating him. He needs to tighten up his racecraft and perform with continued consistencey and he's right up there with Kobayashi, even if he is a little less exciting.

Petrov has been pretty disappointing in my opinion. If this was 1986, he would be pretty good and already made his mark on the team. But it isn't, he just isn't showing signs of consistencey, only flashes of speed.
Really, what makes Petrov's season disappointing is more the equipment he is in and the team's expectations and aspirations. If he was in a backmarker team like Sutil was, he would be ok and probably would already have been confirmed for next year. Unfortunately for him, he's in a team which really need someone with consistent fast pace and he's not going to deliver that right now.

All 3 of these rookies have shown the necessary promise to secure seats next year. Petrov has shown the least signs of improving significantly soon, he may well be a good or even great F1 driver in future, but he needs some seasons under him I think, for his confidence if anything.

Its also telling that only Kobayashi has a confirmed seat so far, while everyone expects Hulkenburg to keep his.

Its difficult to really judge Senna, Di Grassi and Chandhok. But overall, they have avoided crashes when their equipment has been reliable and at this point for a new, lowly team with little budget, thats exactly what they need. All three have done enough to earn a seat at their respective teams, but their problem is money not talent.

People are fooling themselves if they think a rookie is better for a championship-aspiring team than a proven WDC.....Renault want results now, its painful to see the WCC standings, imagine where they could be now if they had started this year with Glock or Sutil in the 2nd seat? Let alone Raikkonen...
I'm all for giving rookies a chance, but Renault have spent too long letting un-tried rookies in the seats. Only Kovalainen has really been a success.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Well, Raikkonen wins the Rally of France...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86817

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Well, Raikkonen wins the Rally of France...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86817

No, he won a French Rally, not the French Rally. It was the Rallye Vosgien, and going by what the article says, it was very short - two stages.

 

[Ardius]

And against rather lacking competition it seems too....it was basically just "practice".
Even so though, nice but lets see what he does in the real WRC Rally.

Kubica already won a round of the Italian Rally Championship earlier this year, so Kimi needs to do better to really impress.

 

[Greycap]

It was the Rallye Vosgien, and going by what the article says, it was very short - two stages.

Two stages of three loops, six special stages in total.

 

[UN_OC]

Yes, and raikkonen took his WRC car to go and do it beating in 2nd place a renault clio i believe. Yes, a rally car, but not a WRC car.

If I had the skill to be competing (not winning though) in WRC and took a WRC car I'd blitzkrieg the competition back into the 1930's as well.



Raikkione doesn't like development, but the one thing he likes even less is not winning. He will do what is required to win, that ferrari raikkonen 1 win, massa 1 podium in half a season, fishichella who got a force india on pole and 2nd in result in spa couldn't do bugger all. Raikkonen and Massa and rediculosly underappreciated. They are both incredibly fast, and raikkonen would destroy petrov in speed no matter what.

When thinking about the seat about 40% of what i'm thinking about is speed

RAIKKONEN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petrov in speeed

So were really only arguing over if raikkonen can bea arsed developing wihch I beleive he will if it means a 2nd wdc or more wins.



Hulkenberg is showing more and more speed, last 3 races is matching barrichello (no mean feat), barichello has the brilliant development skills thogh (says sam michael tech director of williams andwilliams himself), kobyashi beat DLR in all but 1 race where both cars finished the race. Kboy has only ended the race by his own mistake once, hitting the wall of champions in canada at the first possible moment.

Di Grassi i think has some speed is up there with glock most of the time, but we don't know how much the car is holding glock back and weather di grassi could push as much. Senna and Chandhok are big ??????? All we know is that they are faster ALOT than Yammy and that they may be slightly slower than a desperate and much more experienced Klien, depending on fuel loads and such we don't know.

As mentioned above the renault is aparently easier to drive than other cars so petrov should be finding it better, but is still loosing it.

Deserves to stay
Senna - yes
Chandhok - yes
yam - NO
di grassi - yes
petrov - meh.. not taking such a great seat maybe do something else come back? I like the guy, but I jsut can't stand to see him to take it from a World Champion
hulkenberg - yes improving learning growing and almost as fast and barichello in some races
koby - hell yes managed to get a more experienced teammate sacked...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Renault have picked up another sponsor for the final five races, Vyborg Shipyards JSC. They're Russian, so the general consensus seems to be that Petrov is fighting back to retain his seat.

 

[Seismica]

Update: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87045

So Renault have agreed to meet with him. I actually think they have made their decision already to be honest.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Then why make such a public show of it? If they'd settled on Raikkonen, why not just sign him already and then tell the world? Why do they need to go through the theatricality of a public spectacle? They've already gone on the record to uestion his motivation for wanting to return. The article makes it pretty clear that Renault are expecting Petrov to finish seventh or eighth, something he would have done if it weren't for Hulkenberg's bonzai. Why would they still be talking about Petrov like that - that there is a way for him to save his seat - if they had already decided to drop him?

 

[UN_OC]

With Marko (the jackass from Redbull... i mean whatever his title is) saying that they offered Raikkonen a 2010 redbull f1 seat and kimi said 'no.. i want to go rallying'... and now raikkonen wants to go back to f1 it seems pretty clear that he knows what he wants to do and wants to be paid well for it.

Redbull has also parently wained in its enthusiasm for raikkonen rallying as he is never anywhere near the pace... usually minutes off at best and crashing other times..


I think the worry they have with petrov is that he isn't perofrming. They have said several times lately that they want to be up the standings and challenging for the championship next year (given that they have the 4th best car, and hence best non championship challenging car). They can't do that with a crap driver. Petrov is taking one step foward and two steps backwards, and occasionally 1 step foward, 1 new sponser and 3 steps backwards.

Kubica managed an extra pit stop and battled through traffic and better qualifying and managed to end up much further up the field. Kubica for the great driver he is, isn't 'the best'.. I think a raikkonen or hamilton or alonso definately and maybe others, would beat him in a fair race.

Petrov just isn't improving. If you look at hulk or kobayashi (spelling) then they have good days when they are challenging or beating there temamate or just dragging a crap car into Q3 in KK's position, and then making the odd error currently. Hulk's qualy, KK a mistake in the race (he has retired twice this year thanks to his problem.... that's only twice by a banzai japanese rookie driver!!!!!)

Petrov is crashing and burning and isn't making up for it with great qualifying or brilliant race pace when he isn't crashing. He just isn't crashing when he isn't chrasing, and that's not what renault want.


I'm guesing they want to speak to raikkonen to make sure it isn't just for money and that he wants to do it and to work out where he wants to be in 3 years time etc.. And then to thrash out a contract.


The anouncements have been coming out since spa, and petrov was doing... barely there OK, until then showing he has time to improve. 3 races later and a big FAIL in spa qualy, and then again showing no pace in either monza or singapore, I believe that it has almost been decided to let him go.



Personally, I believe he should just be test driver and give him some time learning other stuff, or if trulli does retire then give him to renault as a special '9th engine'.


Why tell the world? because raikkonen 'im not going to drive in any car that can't win the championship, and its your job to make a gerat car and its mine to drive it' just said that he wants to go to renault next year!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

With Marko (the jackass from Redbull... i mean whatever his title is) saying that they offered Raikkonen a 2010 redbull f1 seat and kimi said 'no.. i want to go rallying'... and now raikkonen wants to go back to f1 it seems pretty clear that he knows what he wants to do and wants to be paid well for it.

Kimi couldn't race in 2010 bcause he was technically under the employ of Ferrari. And Ferrari would be damned if they were going to let him race for the team they believed would be their main rivals.

Kubica managed an extra pit stop and battled through traffic and better qualifying and managed to end up much further up the field. Kubica for the great driver he is, isn't 'the best'.. I think a raikkonen or hamilton or alonso definately and maybe others, would beat him in a fair race.

Kubica had fresh tyres. Felipe Massa, for instance, had been on the same set since the first lap.

Petrov just isn't improving. If you look at hulk or kobayashi (spelling) then they have good days when they are challenging or beating there temamate or just dragging a crap car into Q3 in KK's position, and then making the odd error currently. Hulk's qualy, KK a mistake in the race (he has retired twice this year thanks to his problem.... that's only twice by a banzai japanese rookie driver!!!!!)

Petrov was doing exactly what Renault were asking of him. The article makes it clear that Renault are expecting him to be about seventh on the road, and he would have been seventh if it weren't for Hulkenberg's move.

Petrov is crashing and burning and isn't making up for it with great qualifying or brilliant race pace when he isn't crashing. He just isn't crashing when he isn't chrasing, and that's not what renault want.

Yes, he crashed in Spa and started from the back row of the grid. He then went on to finish ninth. How is that not brilliant race pace? Sure, you could say he gained an advantage because everyone else went off at the Bus Stop, but what does that say about everyone else?

I'm guesing they want to speak to raikkonen to make sure it isn't just for money and that he wants to do it and to work out where he wants to be in 3 years time etc.. And then to thrash out a contract.

It's probably more to do with making sure he isn't interested in Renault simply because they're fast. If he is, there's a very real chance his heart won't be in it when they're not. We saw it all through 2009: every time Ferrari was off the pace, Raikkonen simply phoned it in.

The anouncements have been coming out since spa, and petrov was doing... barely there OK, until then showing he has time to improve. 3 races later and a big FAIL in spa qualy, and then again showing no pace in either monza or singapore, I believe that it has almost been decided to let him go.

Petrov started Spa in 23rd. He finished 9th. That's a good effort. In Monza, he got shafted by the team letting him go from the pits right on top of Glock. And in Singapore, he crashed out and still qualifed 12th, and was on-track for seventh when Hulkenberg ruined his race.

Why tell the world? because raikkonen 'im not going to drive in any car that can't win the championship, and its your job to make a gerat car and its mine to drive it' just said that he wants to go to renault next year!

No, I mean why tell the world that they're willing to meet with him? Why not just sign him and be done with it? Why telegraph everything well in advance? Why talk about what Petrov can do to save his seat if it's already been decided?

If Raikkonen joins Renault, I believe the team will suffer. I doubt he'll take well to the fuel rules and the new Pirellis, and the team environment - built around Kubica - is not one that he will take to well.

 

[UN_OC]

Kimi couldn't race in 2010 bcause he was technically under the employ of Ferrari. And Ferrari would be damned if they were going to let him race for the team they believed would be their main rivals.

Raikkonen did have the option to race in F1, BUT only recieved a minor payout if he did, he recieved the full blown if he didn't

Kubica had fresh tyres. Felipe Massa, for instance, had been on the same set since the first lap.

Kubica managed to be ahead, go in for an extra pit stop and hence earnt those tyres. If those tyres and extra pit stop gave him advantage then why didn't they hall petrov's arse into the pits to give him some fresh rubber? Even if you take away the whole new tyrs and extra pit stop, kubica was far ahead anyway. He LOST a position by going for an extra pit stop and tyres AND STILL FINSIHED AHEAD of petrov

Petrov was doing exactly what Renault were asking of him. The article makes it clear that Renault are expecting him to be about seventh on the road, and he would have been seventh if it weren't for Hulkenberg's move.

So 1 GP he finally does what they expected. My point is that Kobyashi and Hulkenberg are both showing flares of great skill, hulk beat barichello and KK making Q3 in a bad car.. then occsioanlly they crash out and most of the time they do ok. Petrov isn't doing that first one, he is only crashing or doing ok. He is no where near Kubica at all and shows no signs of nudging him occsioanlly..

Yes, he crashed in Spa and started from the back row of the grid. He then went on to finish ninth. How is that not brilliant race pace? Sure, you could say he gained an advantage because everyone else went off at the Bus Stop, but what does that say about everyone else?

That it was greazy and he was so far behind at that point he completely missaed it? A whole heap of cars went off at the final corner one lap, saftey cars banked the whole place up, a long lap means its hard to get lapped so you can just get behind the saftey car again without being a lap down. He had enourmous luck and showed some skill there. If that was a showing of his ability then that's no that great. Yes it was a good performance, but was it a Di Grassi out qualy glock, or kk in q3 or hulkenberg ahead of barichello or alg nearly in q3 in a torro rooso? I don't think it was anywhere near that big of a showing.

It's probably more to do with making sure he isn't interested in Renault simply because they're fast. If he is, there's a very real chance his heart won't be in it when they're not. We saw it all through 2009: every time Ferrari was off the pace, Raikkonen simply phoned it in.

Raikkonen doesn't want to not win. He doesn't want to be in a slow car and he isn't going to win without a mirachle in WRC and so he wants to go back to something he is brilliant at. Yes he lost in in 09 and a bit of 08. But at mclaren when the car just kept of braking up under him he continued to push on because he wanted to win. I think he wants to win again and spending a year away being so far off the pace they might as well call him petrov has reignited his desire to win. I belive its more that they want someone who is there because he wants to win not just grab some money. In 08 he had to support massa and lost it, in 09 2nd half he was against driver who couldn't drive it. He had no reason to come fisrt over 11th. Against kubica he does anyway.

Petrov started Spa in 23rd. He finished 9th. That's a good effort. In Monza, he got shafted by the team letting him go from the pits right on top of Glock. And in Singapore, he crashed out and still qualifed 12th, and was on-track for seventh when Hulkenberg ruined his race.

He qualified 12th!!!!!!!!!!!!!! at a track that renault was good at? That's almost kinda nearish to kubica! See above for spa, yes monza was a bit shafted, BUT he is still not showing great flashes of pace. He is always there a chunk slower than kubica. That's not showing signs of improvement thats leveling out.

My point isn't that he is slow, my point is that he isn't showing any signs that he is fast. He is a bit slowr than kubica or he crashes. Other rookies also every blue moon to somethign really impressive. I haven't seen that. It's the occasional impressiveness that shows what he can become.

No, I mean why tell the world that they're willing to meet with him? Why not just sign him and be done with it? Why telegraph everything well in advance? Why talk about what Petrov can do to save his seat if it's already been decided?

Because they want to? It hasn't been decided its still borderline, I believe slightly Raikkonen's way now. If petrov does some great stuff in the lsat 4 races then he should keep it. If Raikkonen impresses then he wont. It's as simple as that.

If Raikkonen joins Renault, I believe the team will suffer. I doubt he'll take well to the fuel rules and the new Pirellis, and the team environment - built around Kubica - is not one that he will take to well.

No one knows if he will take well to fuel rules, he has never shown a lack of ability in the past when it comes to heavy fuel. Infact he is good at overtaking and overall pace. He hasn't needed to get an easy overtake in the pits before. And he has shown how to look after tyres (eg at mclaren when he new how to get the most of them in speed while lasting the minimum laps). WTF? he wont like the perelli's? No one knows what the perellis are like? quick nick has driven on a prototype of them, grojean who wont get a drive for a while atleast has also. We don't know if they decay quickly or are hard or what. Doubting he wont like fuel and tyres that he has never used is just making stuff up. It's like saying I'm doubt petrov will even beable to drive anywhe near anyone next year because he wont be able to know when to sue KERS. It's stupid.

The idea was put out ages ago when kubica was thinking about moving and the idea is taht the team is built around performance for the top of the team as opposed to stability for petrov. You can't take something they said months and months ago about a different driver in a different situation between the two than now.

Answers in bold

 

[Ardius]

Kimi couldn't race in 2010 bcause he was technically under the employ of Ferrari. And Ferrari would be damned if they were going to let him race for the team they believed would be their main rivals.

Funny that you forget the facts on this, as it was you I believe who was mocking Raikkonen for pricing himself out of a seat at the time.
Raikkonen had offers from McLaren, Renault and Red Bull. Some were genuine, some were not. The problem was, those teams were offering him extremely low salaries because they all knew he was being paid for the year by Ferrari - so they viewed it as his Ferrari-salary == his salary for the year, regardless who was paying it.

People like to refer to it as "Ferrari paying Kimi not to race" but it was really paying money they owed Kimi...they had cut his contract short by 1 year, therefore violating its terms. So they had to buy him out of it.

Ferrari can't pay someone not to work for another team. (well, they can, but I don't think they have any legal means of stopping them actually doing so). At the very most, they can choose not to pay Kimi if he races in F1 with another team in 2010, but if Kimi really wanted to, he could have raced in 2010, he just wouldn't have been paid by Ferrari.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Kubica managed to be ahead, go in for an extra pit stop and hence earnt those tyres. If those tyres and extra pit stop gave him advantage then why didn't they hall petrov's arse into the pits to give him some fresh rubber? Even if you take away the whole new tyrs and extra pit stop, kubica was far ahead anyway. He LOST a position by going for an extra pit stop and tyres AND STILL FINSIHED AHEAD of petrov

Which wouldn't have happened in the first place if Kubica hadn't developed a puncture. He finished ahead of Petrov because he started ahead on a circuit that is notoriously ahrd to overtake on except for extraordinary circumstances - like developing a puncture and needing new tyres. Or did you honestly expect Petrov to defend against Kubica on tyres that were thirty laps older?

So 1 GP he finally does what they expected. My point is that Kobyashi and Hulkenberg are both showing flares of great skill, hulk beat barichello and KK making Q3 in a bad car.. then occsioanlly they crash out and most of the time they do ok. Petrov isn't doing that first one, he is only crashing or doing ok. He is no where near Kubica at all and shows no signs of nudging him occsioanlly..

Can you only remember as far back as the last three races? Go back and check out China, Turkey and Hungary in particual. In China, he handed the conditions well enough to pick up seventh place. In Turkey, he defended against Alonso for most of the race before Alonso tagged him. In Hungary, he had the measure of Kubica all weekend. There's something there; Renault just need to unlock it in his qualifying.

Raikkonen doesn't want to not win. He doesn't want to be in a slow car and he isn't going to win without a mirachle in WRC and so he wants to go back to something he is brilliant at. Yes he lost in in 09 and a bit of 08. But at mclaren when the car just kept of braking up under him he continued to push on because he wanted to win. I think he wants to win again and spending a year away being so far off the pace they might as well call him petrov has reignited his desire to win. I belive its more that they want someone who is there because he wants to win not just grab some money. In 08 he had to support massa and lost it, in 09 2nd half he was against driver who couldn't drive it. He had no reason to come fisrt over 11th. Against kubica he does anyway.

What I mean is that if Raikkonen wants in, he can't just join Renault the race-winning team. He has to be willing to take everything that comes his way. And I honestly think he won't do it - like I said, the Ferrari F60 was never on the pace in 2009, and he was upstaged by Massa all year long. It was only when Massa was KO'ed in Hungary that Raikkonen stepped up.

He qualified 12th!!!!!!!!!!!!!! at a track that renault was good at?

At a circuit Renault was supposed to be good at. A lot of people expected big things from Renault, kind of like in Monaco. Except that they didn't deliver.

No one knows if he will take well to fuel rules, he has never shown a lack of ability in the past when it comes to heavy fuel.

When was the last time Raikkonen raced on a heavy fuel tank? He hasn't!

Funny that you forget the facts on this, as it was you I believe who was mocking Raikkonen for pricing himself out of a seat at the time.

I've since learned that things went down a little differently.

 

[UN_OC]

Which wouldn't have happened in the first place if Kubica hadn't developed a puncture. He finished ahead of Petrov because he started ahead on a circuit that is notoriously ahrd to overtake on except for extraordinary circumstances - like developing a puncture and needing new tyres. Or did you honestly expect Petrov to defend against Kubica on tyres that were thirty laps older?

And how did Kubica get that far ahead that he was able to pit to fresh tyres and then still return close enough to be able to make teh moves.... oh yeah, because he qualified better and then actually did somethingw ith it.


Can you only remember as far back as the last three races? Go back and check out China, Turkey and Hungary in particual. In China, he handed the conditions well enough to pick up seventh place. In Turkey, he defended against Alonso for most of the race before Alonso tagged him. In Hungary, he had the measure of Kubica all weekend. There's something there; Renault just need to unlock it in his qualifying.

Renault has said they are looking for signs of IMPROVEMENT. If you want to go back to stuff he did earlier how about smashing the car each weekend for the first few months?

What I mean is that if Raikkonen wants in, he can't just join Renault the race-winning team. He has to be willing to take everything that comes his way. And I honestly think he won't do it - like I said, the Ferrari F60 was never on the pace in 2009, and he was upstaged by Massa all year long. It was only when Massa was KO'ed in Hungary that Raikkonen stepped up.

The car was so incredibly off the pace... he couldn't manage points at the start. They wrote the season off mostly anyway so it didn't matter and he now is ready to win again. Thats what he has gained from his year away WRCing

At a circuit Renault was supposed to be good at. A lot of people expected big things from Renault, kind of like in Monaco. Except that they didn't deliver.

So.... Kubica easily top10, petrov didn't really have a chance of getting there... it wasn't even a close 12th.. it was a bit of a missed it by quite a bit much. Hulkenberg is now being compared to barichello as opposed to a few places back from him. KK is being compared with hidfeld and PDR, di grassi is being compared with the performance and pace of glock. petrov is still. 'wow, he is only 4 places behind kubica' he must have done really well! It seems most are expecting him to always be a bit slower and he isn't showing that he can make it to challenge kubica every few races or atleast nudge him. It's a bit back from kubica and thats the way it has been. Hence not improving as much as he shuld be.

I think one day he could become a consistant great driver like a massa, but he isn't showing that he is ready for it yet and definately isn't fitting in the plans renault know they can do next year with teh right drivers.

When was the last time Raikkonen raced on a heavy fuel tank? He hasn't!

You were the one doubting him!!! There have been small changes in laps from the heavy tanks, but thats about it. Doubting Raikkonen (a man has been adjusting to wrc cars... kinda) according to you is doubtful (your word not mine) if he can drive with a full tank. That's stupid. no one has really had problems at all, and so a brilliant driver like Kimi shouldn't have any problems either!

I've since learned that things went down a little differently.

Such as....??

answers once again in bold.


Frankly Petrov does hold more than he is showing, but renault need someone much better than what he can do for next year. They need a big performer to challenge for the title. Petrov is still 2-3 years away from that. he is like sutil in that he will be a little while before he can produce consistant top level results. Petrov is consistantly not top level. Sutil has now arrived at that point almost, Petrov is at the begining.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

And how did Kubica get that far ahead that he was able to pit to fresh tyres and then still return close enough to be able to make teh moves.... oh yeah, because he qualified better and then actually did somethingw ith it.

From the time he started the race until the time he was forced to pit, Robert Kubica didn't actually pick up a single place on-track (that I know of). He gained them during his pit stop. Petrov started twelfth and was seventh when he got muscled off.

Renault has said they are looking for signs of IMPROVEMENT. If you want to go back to stuff he did earlier how about smashing the car each weekend for the first few months?

And now he's not smashing the car each weekend. I'd say that's the very definition of IMPROVEMENT.

The car was so incredibly off the pace... he couldn't manage points at the start. They wrote the season off mostly anyway so it didn't matter and he now is ready to win again. Thats what he has gained from his year away WRCing

I'm sorry, it's perfectly okay for Raikkonen to not give a stuff if the car is no good? And Renault are going to pay him to do this because it's their fault?

definately isn't fitting in the plans renault know they can do next year with teh right drivers.

"The right driver" isn't Kimi Raikkonen. There is no way Raikkonen will accept a team built around another driver the way Renault is built around Kubica. He'll expect them to back him, despite having a year off and being unknown to the team. That's flirting with danger.

You were the one doubting him!!! There have been small changes in laps from the heavy tanks, but thats about it. Doubting Raikkonen (a man has been adjusting to wrc cars... kinda) according to you is doubtful (your word not mine) if he can drive with a full tank. That's stupid. no one has really had problems at all, and so a brilliant driver like Kimi shouldn't have any problems either!

No one has had any problems at all? What about that guy who won the World Championship seven times and is now tanlging with Saubers every other lap?

You seem to have misinterpreted my post - I'm doubting Raikkonen's ability to handle a car with a full tank because he wasn't racing last time there was no refuelling. And how exactly is there no difference between heavy and fuel cars when Alonso's pole time was two seconds faster than his fastest lap, which was set on lap 58 when most of the fuel had burned off?

Such as....??

That wasn't directed at you. Go back and read the previous posts; you'll understand.

 

[Seismica]

Petrov needs time in F1 to refine his skills.

Renault don't need a driver who is going to refine his skills over time, they need someone who can deliver the results now.

At the moment Petrov is essentially a pay driver, bringing sponsors to the team that allowed the team to stay afloat after a period of uncertainty. But what they need next season is a team of drivers who can potentially challenge for the Constructor's championship. I believe if Renault have a potential championship winning car next season, Petrov will only hold them back and end up costing the team more than he brings in sponsorship revenue.

For Petrov to stay though, it's going to take some decent performances for the rest of the season. As long as he's finishing in the points each race he will earn his seat.

But personally I don't think that he will retain his seat. We know that Renault have their doubts about Petrov, otherwise they would have signed him for next year already. Kobayashi hgas already been signed up for next year, and I believe Hulkenberg is fairly safe in his seat too. The fact that Renault F1 have publically admitted that they are considering Raikkonen shows that they believe he is a better driver, perhaps better or at least on par with Kubica (Who I still believe to be the Fastest current driver in F1). It is also putting unnecessary pressure on Petrov. It is my personal view that Renault have already made their decision to take on Raikkonen, if i'm wrong so be it.

 

[UN_OC]

Definately agreeing with Seismica here. Renault need performance and petrov isn't ready to produce it yet... Hence i'm thinking 3rd driver or maybe a present to lotus? one of teh two.


From the time he started the race until the time he was forced to pit, Robert Kubica didn't actually pick up a single place on-track (that I know of). He gained them during his pit stop. Petrov started twelfth and was seventh when he got muscled off.
But he started and ahead and finished ahead. Petrov showed that he can get a good start and then take the odd position. His overall result wasn't great.


I'm sorry, it's perfectly okay for Raikkonen to not give a stuff if the car is no good? And Renault are going to pay him to do this because it's their fault?

Bit of a difference when raikkonen knew that ferrari were dumping him for alonso. Worst secret ever and raikkonen would have found out early to end his contract. Why wouldyou care if the car can barely manage points and your getting dumped at the end of the season. Who honestly cares... obvsiouly not the team

"The right driver" isn't Kimi Raikkonen. There is no way Raikkonen will accept a team built around another driver the way Renault is built around Kubica. He'll expect them to back him, despite having a year off and being unknown to the team. That's flirting with danger.
what the team say at the start of the year is different to now. THe team isn't built around kubica its built around performance and getting the performance onto the car. Kubica was that performance when it was kubica contract time and that was said then. Raikkonen is also a performance driver and so the team wont shun raikkonen especially if he can = or outscore kubica.


No one has had any problems at all? What about that guy who won the World Championship seven times and is now tanlging with Saubers every other lap?

You seem to have misinterpreted my post - I'm doubting Raikkonen's ability to handle a car with a full tank because he wasn't racing last time there was no refuelling. And how exactly is there no difference between heavy and fuel cars when Alonso's pole time was two seconds faster than his fastest lap, which was set on lap 58 when most of the fuel had burned off?

Your first sentence is against your 2nd. Schumacher WAS around when thre was no fuelling according to my memory. His problem is being out of the sport for 3 years, not having the full team and tyres working for him, slick tyres, no traction control, a crack down on illigal aids (as opposed to the we have a launch control.. we just dont use it wink wink) and also being old. The car change dramatically from 2006-> 2010

Raikkonen has been away for what less than a year and the only change has really being refuelling. The aero is pretty much the same, the tyres are the same for all, the aids are the same. The races are the same. Everything is pretty much the same.

Youve missed my point or atleast misinterpreted it. I wasn't syaing the car is the same with and without fuel. I was saying no driver in the field has been put off but anything more than a tenth to comparision to other drivers now that the rule has changed. I.e. alonso is still just as fast, trulli is just as slow. no one has shown any drop or great rise in performance that can be attributed to the new fuel rules. Your original comment was that you doubted raikkonen could drive with the new fuel rules. I'm saying no one has shown any great change to there performance levels (comparing with others), so doubting raikkone, a WDC and brilliant driver would someone not be able to drive under the new fuel rules while others are still the same relative distance away from each other is stupid.

To try and get it rhough another way..

drive in 2009 fuel rules = driver in 2010 fuel rules roughly. No drive has shown an inability ot great ability to drive with the bigger tanks. So why would raikkonen be unable?


interludes, your in italics, my answers are in bold

 

[The Outlaw]

You seem to have misinterpreted my post - I'm doubting Raikkonen's ability to handle a car with a full tank because he wasn't racing last time there was no refuelling. And how exactly is there no difference between heavy and fuel cars when Alonso's pole time was two seconds faster than his fastest lap, which was set on lap 58 when most of the fuel had burned off?

Nonsense. I hope this isn't another excuse for you to try and justify why Renault should keep Petrov for next year. Don't let your enthusiam for a driver get in the way of reality.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

But he started and ahead and finished ahead. Petrov showed that he can get a good start and then take the odd position. His overall result wasn't great.

What? You're just going around in circles. Is Alonso a better driver than Massa because Massa's engine packed it in during qualifynig?

Bit of a difference when raikkonen knew that ferrari were dumping him for alonso. Worst secret ever and raikkonen would have found out early to end his contract. Why wouldyou care if the car can barely manage points and your getting dumped at the end of the season. Who honestly cares... obvsiouly not the team

Except that Raikkonen didn't know he was being traded until some time after Massa's accident in Hungary. How do you accont for all those other races where he just trundled around?

what the team say at the start of the year is different to now. THe team isn't built around kubica its built around performance and getting the performance onto the car. Kubica was that performance when it was kubica contract time and that was said then. Raikkonen is also a performance driver and so the team wont shun raikkonen especially if he can = or outscore kubica.

They won't shun him, but they'll be behind Kubica from the start, and a team's support of a driver counts for a lot. Haven't you heard of the way drivers have to campaign within the team for support from the higher-ups as the season go on so that they can challenge for the championship? Mark Webber is doing it right now - he wants Red Bull behind him 110%. Ergo, Raikkonen will have to claw his way back. But he'll have to do it from the beginning of the season because Kubica is a proven quantity to the team. Raikkonen's results might help his case, but he is unproven in the team.

Your first sentence is against your 2nd. Schumacher WAS around when thre was no fuelling according to my memory. His problem is being out of the sport for 3 years, not having the full team and tyres working for him, slick tyres, no traction control, a crack down on illigal aids (as opposed to the we have a launch control.. we just dont use it wink wink) and also being old. The car change dramatically from 2006-> 2010

You say that Schumacher's problem is the tyres. Then you say Raikkonen will have no tyres, even though he's (supposedly) following Schumacher in re-entering the sport. Get your story straight!

[/b]Raikkonen has been away for what less than a year and the only change has really being refuelling. The aero is pretty much the same, the tyres are the same for all, the aids are the same. The races are the same. Everything is pretty much the same.[/b]

A year can count for a lot - especially when you're off doing something so radically different to Formula 1 as rallying.

You seem possessed with the idea that Raikkonen can jump into a car and be instantly competitive. But based on what we've seen in 2008 and 2009, he has absolutely no motivation. That may have been because he could not win at the time, but if he doesn't care about it when he cannot win and he finds that Renault are not competing for race wins, what possible motivation would he have? He'd just be a waste of space, the worst possible driver for the team. I'd much rather have an untried and untested rookie who gives his all than some former World Champion who doesn't try when things don't go his way.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=389119&FS=F1

 

[UN_OC]

Just a bunch of quotes that we have already seen and heard. And a bit of speculation. No major site has said it not ESPN or autosport.


It says raikkonen was never interested... except that raikkonen was the one who originalyl said he was interested. It wasn't renault saying that kimi had contacted, both renault AND raikkonen have said that kimi has contacted.

If the turun sanomat thinks that raikkonen is going to play interested to help push renault then there even crazier than a certain bbc face who used to run a team...

Raikkonen is yet to meat renault, and aparently raikkonen already isn't interested? That's the most pointless statement ever, if they are going to meet which they said they are, then its because HE IS INTERESTED!!!!

Oh, and petrov is selfconfident.. no.... a driver is selfconfident and assured he is the right choice! amazing


Old quotes, lack of substance, not on a major site, no one else has mentioned it, and trying to preempt whatever teh meeting will decide which is yet to happen. YAWN

 

[Greycap]

But based on what we've seen in 2008 and 2009, he has absolutely no motivation.

What neither of us knows is what the team had ordered during those seasons. Ferrari has a reputation for team orders - very hard to argue against that - and I wouldn't be too surprised if they had tried to give Massa one championship as a way of saying thanks for all the times he had to play the second violin. it almost worked in 2008 and it surely seemed that way in 2009 too because Räikkönen stepped up very much after Massa was out of the game. I have a feeling the performance was there all the time but was he allowed to use it all? Who knows. What we know is that immediately after Massa was out his results jumped from ~10th place to the podium. It sounds a bit odd to be just a coincidence.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Just a bunch of quotes that we have already seen and heard. And a bit of speculation. No major site has said it not ESPN or autosport.

I'm sorry, where is it written that a publication has to be English-language to be considered "major"? La Gazetto dello Sport broke the news that Alonso was moving to Ferrari, and that's an Italian publication. It's no less valid because it's not in English.

It says raikkonen was never interested... except that raikkonen was the one who originalyl said he was interested. It wasn't renault saying that kimi had contacted, both renault AND raikkonen have said that kimi has contacted.

No, Raikkonen allegedly said to Boullier that "You have a fast car" and the press took it from there.

If the turun sanomat thinks that raikkonen is going to play interested to help push renault then there even crazier than a certain bbc face who used to run a team...

Raikkonen doesn't have to play along at all. He doesn't even have to say anything. If the bulk of story comes from Renault's side of things and they have an objective of putting pressure on Petrov's sponsors, Raikkonen doesn't have to say a word and Renault can just as easily accomplist their goal.

Raikkonen is yet to meat renault, and aparently raikkonen already isn't interested? That's the most pointless statement ever, if they are going to meet which they said they are, then its because HE IS INTERESTED!!!!

Maybe they're going to meet because Renault and Gerard Lopez are considering expanding their motorsport program to include the WRC and they want Raikkonen to drive for them in it. After all, Sebastien Loeb is retiring at the end of 2011 and the new Super 2000/Super 1600 regulations are coming in, plus talk of a few new manufacturers - it stands to reason that Citroen's grip on the championship will weaken, and with Raikkonen steadily improving in the WRC ... well, Renault might want to expand into that category. Personally, I doubt this will happen, but I just created reasonable doubt about your expectations. What are you going to do if and when Raikkonen isn't signed for Renault F1?

Oh, and petrov is selfconfident.. no.... a driver is selfconfident and assured he is the right choice! amazing

When was the last time you heard of a driver going around telling everyone "No, I'm no good, I shouldn't be here"?

Old quotes, lack of substance, not on a major site, no one else has mentioned it, and trying to preempt whatever teh meeting will decide which is yet to happen. YAWN

Yes. Feel free to ignore anything you don't like because it's not in English. I'm pretty sure Hitler ignored the Third Geneva Convetion for no other reason than it wasn't written in German. [/sarcasm]

 

[UN_OC]

The article is light on for facts and is saying that raikkonen wasn't ever interested despite the fact that we KNOW that he is. When I see that, I tend to think that the sources or article is a bit iffy. And since no one major is reporting it, then I'm going to stick with its very iffy.


Raikkonen MADE CONTACT. It wasn't just saying he had a fast car. But raikkonen's manager and renault have confirmed that they have spoken to show interest before. That's why there is interest there.. its not just media.


RAIKKONEN MADE CONTACT!!!!! how hard is that for you to understand. No, its not a money based ploy, (renault may have a big new sponser anyway), RAIKKONEN IS ACTUALLY INTERESTED. He and his manager have contact renault. THAT IS INTEREST FOR FKS SAKE!

Except for the fact, a) raikkonen wants to win and if you have ever actually watch WRC, then you'll know that his 8th place occasionally is actually a handful of minutes behind the pace, and others like solberg can pick up a puncture and still finish well ahead of it. and B) BECAUSE RAIKKONEN CONTACTED RENAULT F1!!!!! F1F1F1F1 .. Try to get this into you. Renault F1 team doesn't = renault factory currently. The team was mostly sold to gemnii or whatever group and is mostly there in name and spirit. Raikkonen is far from being the top. And if renault were going to start doing wrc cars, and there is no talk of it, so i'm not sure why they would be looking for a driver when they haven't even started a development program (note: mini has started and wont do a full season until 2012). Raikkonen can't do a development program because he is new to wrc anyway.
And even if renault wanted to do that, then
a) how would raikkonen know to contact renault, seeing media doesn't know that renault is to enter wrc but aparently raikkonen does know
and
b) raikkonen would have contacted renault or renault sport NOT renaut f1 team. They are seperate enterties and Renault F1 team were contacted. Renault wasn't.


Never thats my point! All drivers think that they should be there. Bumei think he should be in red bull if webbber leaves despite never being on a podium. Liuzzi thinks he should be racing next year. All drivers do that. Petrov isn't going to say.. actually i don't think i'm ready for it. He'll always say.. yes, I know i can or I will beable to.


WTF! Your complaining to me about not reading things that are only being published by 1 site and not by the main media while you continuen to ignore the fact that and i';m gonna make this big and loud for you


Raikkonen/manager contacted Renault F1 - shows interest
Renault f1 is renault f1 not renault wrc or renault factory, but renault f1
The meeting is yet to happen, if either party weren't interested then it wouldn't happen. REnault f1 have bigger things than to worry about someone they don't think they should put in the car, and raikkonen wont bother talking to those who he wont drive for.


Wait for the bloody meeting before you link to illinformed fringe media comments

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

What neither of us knows is what the team had ordered during those seasons. Ferrari has a reputation for team orders - very hard to argue against that - and I wouldn't be too surprised if they had tried to give Massa one championship as a way of saying thanks for all the times he had to play the second violin. it almost worked in 2008 and it surely seemed that way in 2009 too because Räikkönen stepped up very much after Massa was out of the game. I have a feeling the performance was there all the time but was he allowed to use it all? Who knows. What we know is that immediately after Massa was out his results jumped from ~10th place to the podium. It sounds a bit odd to be just a coincidence.

His performances are too inconsistent to back that up. Ok, in 2009 he strung together 4 podiums. What happened in the next 4 races?

A quote from the man himself will explain it better:

For sure, I wouldn't stop if I'd feel I would miss it. I'll have found something else to do that I enjoy more. I don't know what's going to happen next year. I haven't made up my mind.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The article is light on for facts and is saying that raikkonen wasn't ever interested despite the fact that we KNOW that he is. When I see that, I tend to think that the sources or article is a bit iffy. And since no one major is reporting it, then I'm going to stick with its very iffy.

No, we know Raikkonen is interested in meeting with Renault. Where has he said "I want to drive for Renault in 2011"? I'm looking for a direct quote, mind you - not some implication from an article.

Raikkonen MADE CONTACT. It wasn't just saying he had a fast car. But raikkonen's manager and renault have confirmed that they have spoken to show interest before. That's why there is interest there.. its not just media.

Yes. And Raikkonen has also said on several occasions that he is not interested.

RAIKKONEN MADE CONTACT!!!!! how hard is that for you to understand. No, its not a money based ploy, (renault may have a big new sponser anyway), RAIKKONEN IS ACTUALLY INTERESTED. He and his manager have contact renault. THAT IS INTEREST FOR FKS SAKE!

Yes, he made contact with the team. But you have no proof of just how interested he is, or of how interested the team is.

Except for the fact, a) raikkonen wants to win and if you have ever actually watch WRC, then you'll know that his 8th place occasionally is actually a handful of minutes behind the pace, and others like solberg can pick up a puncture and still finish well ahead of it. and B) BECAUSE RAIKKONEN CONTACTED RENAULT F1!!!!! F1F1F1F1 .. Try to get this into you. Renault F1 team doesn't = renault factory currently. The team was mostly sold to gemnii or whatever group and is mostly there in name and spirit. Raikkonen is far from being the top. And if renault were going to start doing wrc cars, and there is no talk of it, so i'm not sure why they would be looking for a driver when they haven't even started a development program (note: mini has started and wont do a full season until 2012). Raikkonen can't do a development program because he is new to wrc anyway.

If you ever watched the WRC, you'd know that finishing several minutes behind the leader is par for the course for everyone. The WRC is not won by tenths of a second the way Formula 1 is, and the sheer fact that you don't know this makes me disreagrd everything you say.

And even if renault wanted to do that, then
a) how would raikkonen know to contact renault, seeing media doesn't know that renault is to enter wrc but aparently raikkonen does know
and
b) raikkonen would have contacted renault or renault sport NOT renaut f1 team. They are seperate enterties and Renault F1 team were contacted. Renault wasn't.

You said it yourself: Renault F1 was sold to Genii. Genii may be looking to enter WRC in the future under the Renault name. If so, Raikkonen would have to go to Renault F1 because Genii has no representation in Renault or Renault Sport.

WTF! Your complaining to me about not reading things that are only being published by 1 site and not by the main media while you continuen to ignore the fact that and i';m gonna make this big and loud for you

Actually, I read things from dozens of publications, both in English and in other languages.

Raikkonen/manager contacted Renault F1 - shows interest
Renault f1 is renault f1 not renault wrc or renault factory, but renault f1
The meeting is yet to happen, if either party weren't interested then it wouldn't happen. REnault f1 have bigger things than to worry about someone they don't think they should put in the car, and raikkonen wont bother talking to those who he wont drive for.


Wait for the bloody meeting before you link to illinformed fringe media comments

Now you're just being exceptionally rude. Bold, enlarged text will do noting for your cause, except to make me think of you as irrational. If you cannot carry out a civil debate, there is no place for you here.

Let me spell this one out for you: you assume that because Renault and Raikkonen have met and/or will meet, that Raikkonen will drive for Renault next season. This is what we call jumping to conclusions. To make matters worse, you completely disregard any evidence that disagrees with your idea because it disagrees with your idea. At elast I try to create an explanation; you, on the other hand, take one news story and hold it up as an empirical truth simply because it was published. I would suggest you start reading some more before you reply, because I have nothing more to say to you if you continue with this line of behaviour.

 

[UN_OC]

Deary deary me...


"It's flattering, because it shows that our team is again attractive to a Formula One world champion," - bollier refering to how raikkonen has contacted (i.e. shown interest)

"It is true that I spoke with Boullier," Robertson (raikkonen manager) mentioninghow on kimi's behalf he spoke with renault f1 team principle

He is on the radar because he contacted us." - renault f1 again..

If kimi isn't interested then he obviously jsut enjoys contacting renault f1 about drives anyway..




Raikkonen made contact i.e. he is interested. Why would he make ocntact and then say he isn't interested... i don't know... maybe because he said that in relation to this year and hadn't thought about next year until now. He said he didn't want to do f1 if he didn't enjoy it and he enjoys wrc more in early 2010. He now has made contact with f1 teams so he is interested in f1 again and he is now saying he DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING NEXT YEAR



No one has proof. But you saying he isn't interested ata ll - his communications from his manager (the guy whos job it is to do sort out kimi's drives) to renault and back show otherwise. Admit it, your wrong on this one. We don't know how interested he is, but he is atleast slightly interested and quite possibly alot more given that he has chosen to make contact while before when he wasn't interested it didn't.


I do watch the WRC. I said that in my post, so I would appreciate it if you didn't ask me if I watch something I just implied I do. If you do watch it youll know that the first few places are usually taken by (apart from leob whos generally miles ahead) mere seconds. Solberg in his own citeron wrc got a puncture a few rallies ago and still ended up minutes ahead despite taking 2 minutes to fix up the tyre.

If you do watch it, you will see that Raikkonen isn't anywhere near the pace. He is good enough to score a few points if he doesn't crash, but a small problem like a bit of an off or a puncture which usually sticks a hirvonen or solberg or ogier or someone back a bit and then they pull through to pick up double digit points, it actually destroys his rally. Raikkonen is in no way going to win a wrc rally at any rate soon.

Heres an example.

Rally Germany only a few weeks back. Kimi has 8:50.5 off the pace at the end of it. That put him 7th. 3rd has ogier at 2:13.3. So to have scored a podium there, it would mean raikkonen would have had to save6 and a half minutes along the way. He has just over 14 mnutes off the apce in bulgeria in 11th position.
Now I know it isn't down the the 100th of a second like f1, and usually a couple or so minutes may be the difference between 1st and coming 4th. But 8 minutes off or even more in a rally isn't anywhere near the pace and so raikkonen wont win. If you watched WRC and knew what you were saying you'd know that.
You'd also know that ford haven't been competiive this year so the time differences may get worse as more ford drivers push - currently only the top ford drivers are above.. but soon hell be challenging mid citeron and ford and mini drivers.

Genii doesn't own the rights to the renault name. They only own the renault f1 team. Genii capital is an investment firm. They aren't going to enter WRC. And if they did they would need to work with a manafacturer anyway (like how prodrive is with mini) as tyou need a road car to abse the wrc off. Genii doesn't own any road car division and isn't in contact with any road car division to base a wrc off and hasn't done any testing on this made up car which raikkonen is meant to be driving.
Pointless. Raikkonen contact renault f1 to talk about a drive with reanult f1.

Just out of interest were you suprised that the alonso ferrari talks last year culminated in alonso driving for ferrari in f1.. no putting an f430 in wrc? I mean atleast ferrari have a road car to base the wrc off, so they are further along the way.


Well I only read english, so i'm going with the major publicators that write in english. It has been more than 24 hours since that article has posted and no other site has posted anything remotely like it so I doubting it even more.



Your calling me irrational? Your the one who think an investment firm is in talks with a car company and has been building a wrc in secret without media knowledge for raikkonen to drive next year!!!

It is called jumping to conclusions to think that he definately will drive next year. I'm merly arguing that until we find out what happened in those talks, we can't say anything. Your the one who linked to that article



I am asuming that...
Raikkonen is interested - he made contact, people not interested don't make contact
Renault are interested - they want to speak to him, they have said no to 'other drivers' interested but want to meet Raikkonen
They are to meet soon - mentioned everywhere



I decided to tell some drivers that we will not carry on discussions with them, so we know wait and see - but Kimi remains one of our scenarios. - quote from boullier before you ask



All I am reading is that. And then my thought is that if renault want to win then raikkonen is there best hope.



Your trying to argue that raikkonen isn't interested and that his talk with an investment firm are for a drive with a team that doesn't exist or even have a car for him to drive.