rate this game's physics
- Thread starter rotary drifter
- 107 comments
- 6,587 views
6/10While I admire those who can get past the graphics in a game like rFactor, personally I would rather take the 2 point reduction in physics realism, and level that off with a 3 point augmentation in the graphics realism. I am a self admitted graphic-whore and unless it drives like GRID, I'm quite happy if its visual presentation is up to par. Even GTR2 with its newly developed Lizard Engine doesn't look that much better than what I used to get from GP Legend. While I can spend a hour the most with rFactor but with Prologue, it's the replay as much as the driving itself that seem to chew away my day. By the time GT5 is ready or release there will be another point or two towards physics realism and perhaps the same in term of graphics presentation.
- 3,239
- New York
- thepatriots
I think one of the problems with GT5 is that the high powered AWD cars (Evo, R8, GTR, etc) are not prone oversteer enough. If you drive the R8 in GTR Evo you can do some power slides and four wheel drifts with just some hard application of the right foot. Same with AWD cars in LFS. But in GT5p you have to be really aggressive with the steering and the throttle in order to get the back end of the R8 to step out (even with N3 tires. I would assume S1 would be the most realistic). Go watch the Top Gear with the Evo X FQ320. It can do a four wheel donuts for Gods sake. Try doing that in GT5p. It is not going to happen. I think how traction is lost needs to be reworked it does not have to be harder to control it just needs to happen sooner. IDK I am not an expert driver and I have never driven any of these cars (only sat shotgun in a Ford GT).
On the GT. From what I can tell, that car with S2 tires (maybe S1) is pretty close to what it is like in real life. It is a little more planted and stable in real life. It also sounds a thousand time better. But overall in GT you get the same sense that you are driving something big, powerful, with power at almost every rev and something that could kill you if you get too zealous.
On the GT. From what I can tell, that car with S2 tires (maybe S1) is pretty close to what it is like in real life. It is a little more planted and stable in real life. It also sounds a thousand time better. But overall in GT you get the same sense that you are driving something big, powerful, with power at almost every rev and something that could kill you if you get too zealous.
That may be your perspective, but personally I find physics to be a very large part of immersion. GT5P is a nice balance of the two (top notch graphics, above average physics). I still, however, prefer the slight downgrade in PC sim graphics for their big step up in physics (iRacing and LFS specifically).
- 846
- GTP_juniordee3
- Oddbug
I would sum things up like this:
The difference between normal and pro physics should be greater.
Actually, I don't care about the normal physics, but make pro physics more realistic.
If people want to play an arcade racer, go buy NFS en stay away from GT. It's a driving simulator for God's sake.
The difference between normal and pro physics should be greater.
Actually, I don't care about the normal physics, but make pro physics more realistic.
If people want to play an arcade racer, go buy NFS en stay away from GT. It's a driving simulator for God's sake.
- 416
LFS is a religion to some, many refuse to overlook it's massive flaws in everything but the physics department, even they have been through a number of changes.
Personally I use sims to experience car/track combinations I don't have access to, fantasy versions do little for me.
Neither can you really rate rfactors physics, so many mods are total garbage, many of the better ones have serious flaws, only a handfull tick all the boxes.
Then you have to consider the PC sim world is tiny, fractured, stagnent, and almost entirely reliant on user created content, you only need to play F1 mods to experience different physics for essentially the same cars, each of which are praised and criticised in equal measure, i.e. few know which is most accurate. You'll have to wait for rfactor 2 to see if the mod community and standards can be controlled.
With GT5P you can at least expect all content to have the same quality control and physics standards, that is a massive plus for anyone who's been used to hit and miss PC mods.
Personally I use sims to experience car/track combinations I don't have access to, fantasy versions do little for me.
Neither can you really rate rfactors physics, so many mods are total garbage, many of the better ones have serious flaws, only a handfull tick all the boxes.
Then you have to consider the PC sim world is tiny, fractured, stagnent, and almost entirely reliant on user created content, you only need to play F1 mods to experience different physics for essentially the same cars, each of which are praised and criticised in equal measure, i.e. few know which is most accurate. You'll have to wait for rfactor 2 to see if the mod community and standards can be controlled.
With GT5P you can at least expect all content to have the same quality control and physics standards, that is a massive plus for anyone who's been used to hit and miss PC mods.
- 2,435
- Fuji
- NissmanR34
- 416
- 416
- 23,800
- Philippines
Hmmm? I coulda sworn the GTR was a nasty beast to control when it started to go sideways... very twitchy at speed (especially on S or N tires) as it reportedly is in real-life.
At least with the current Gran Turismo physics build, not all of the AWD cars "plow" under power. In GT4's physics model, the moment a car had power going through the front-wheels, it would plow. Period. No matter how much power was going through the rear wheels. In GT5P, some AWDs actually neutral-steer or oversteer slightly under power, as they're supposed to in real-life, depending on the torque-bias of the system. Without knowing the torque-bias of the R8, I can't comment as to how realistc GT5P's AWD model is. I've never driven an Evo or Subie on track (at least not an STi)... the only high-powered AWD car I've caned at high speeds is the X6.
The closest points of comparison to real-life I have is the Ford Focus. Feels spot-on to how one drives in real-life... feeling very nimble at 8/10ths but feeling overly heavy and under-tired at 10/10ths. I hope GT5 gets the newer Focus ST, because they've revised the front suspension of the Mark 2.5 Focus to give it a more neutral stance.
At least with the current Gran Turismo physics build, not all of the AWD cars "plow" under power. In GT4's physics model, the moment a car had power going through the front-wheels, it would plow. Period. No matter how much power was going through the rear wheels. In GT5P, some AWDs actually neutral-steer or oversteer slightly under power, as they're supposed to in real-life, depending on the torque-bias of the system. Without knowing the torque-bias of the R8, I can't comment as to how realistc GT5P's AWD model is. I've never driven an Evo or Subie on track (at least not an STi)... the only high-powered AWD car I've caned at high speeds is the X6.
The closest points of comparison to real-life I have is the Ford Focus. Feels spot-on to how one drives in real-life... feeling very nimble at 8/10ths but feeling overly heavy and under-tired at 10/10ths. I hope GT5 gets the newer Focus ST, because they've revised the front suspension of the Mark 2.5 Focus to give it a more neutral stance.
- 606
- Toronto, Canada
- slicecom
That's cool that you admit you're a graphics whore. I love great graphics as much as the next guy, and have bought games just to marvel at the graphics, but when it comes to racing sims, I'm more of a realism whore. I want the closest experience that I can get to real life, and for me, graphics are not as essential as physics in that experience.
Agreed. When I play iRacing I find the immersion alot better than GT5, even if it has horrible graphics. Nothing compares to iRacing so far in terms of physics and racing. If GT5 would have iRacing physics, it would hands down be the best driving game ever.
x3!
Good post. While I disagree with your viewpoint, its clear to me that unlike many here, you've actually spent some time trying out PC sims, so you get my respect.
- 45
- mink_GTRP
it is interesting to see a lot of people rate LFS so high,where real racedrivers (apart from the guy in the LFS-Booklet 
) were not so satisfied with the physics of the sim (espeacially the tire-model)
as for me, it looks something like this:
4/10 GT4
6/10 GT5P
8/10 rFactor
8/10 GTR EVO
6/10 GTR2
6/10 LFS
9/10 Richard Burns Rally (im really surprised it has not been mentioned so far)
I do own all of those titles and have driven a fair bit in each sim now. Theese ratings are based on how much i was convinced of really sitting in a car, rather than just playing a game - as far as the current technology allows this...
Sadly I cant say anything about Forza2, coz i have driven it only once with a gamepad or iRacing, which i havent driven at all
) were not so satisfied with the physics of the sim (espeacially the tire-model)as for me, it looks something like this:
4/10 GT4
6/10 GT5P
8/10 rFactor
8/10 GTR EVO
6/10 GTR2
6/10 LFS
9/10 Richard Burns Rally (im really surprised it has not been mentioned so far)
I do own all of those titles and have driven a fair bit in each sim now. Theese ratings are based on how much i was convinced of really sitting in a car, rather than just playing a game - as far as the current technology allows this...
Sadly I cant say anything about Forza2, coz i have driven it only once with a gamepad or iRacing, which i havent driven at all
- 3,239
- New York
- thepatriots
At Jaguar, oh right it was the 360. Anyways you could tune the Evo in arcade mode to 360hp and give it N3 or S1 tires and it still would take massive inputs and e-braking to get sideways or do donuts.
At Niky, the only thing I have to act as a real life guide is I think it was motor trend or road and track did a test at Laguna Seca and they seemed to be getting the rear end of the R8 to step out without having to force it. They also said that the car does understeer like all AWD cars but it was nicely balanced between under and oversteer.
The GTR I guess, is a pretty good representation of the real life thing but I wouldn't know. Well at least from watching videos and such it seems to have a little too much understeer and lower speed. But you are right I have read that it can be pretty twitchy at the limit which it is in GT5.
The reason I think the Ford GT is close is because KY owns one and I think he would know how it drives. Also PD helped develop the GTR's screen thingy with Nissan and probably have a good relationship with them so there cars are going to be better representations.
At Niky, the only thing I have to act as a real life guide is I think it was motor trend or road and track did a test at Laguna Seca and they seemed to be getting the rear end of the R8 to step out without having to force it. They also said that the car does understeer like all AWD cars but it was nicely balanced between under and oversteer.
The GTR I guess, is a pretty good representation of the real life thing but I wouldn't know. Well at least from watching videos and such it seems to have a little too much understeer and lower speed. But you are right I have read that it can be pretty twitchy at the limit which it is in GT5.
The reason I think the Ford GT is close is because KY owns one and I think he would know how it drives. Also PD helped develop the GTR's screen thingy with Nissan and probably have a good relationship with them so there cars are going to be better representations.
Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
You nailed it. 👍
Also always I see a lot of people mixing his driving experience(real driving) with his sim experience(high speed racing, race cars and dangerous stunts) to make facts about other games and much of this facts are based on flaws and inaccuracies that only an experienced race driver or specific car owner with track time can spot.
Is that because I don't take seriously the facts from the PC gaming community, are more about believing and feeling than real facts.
Maybe a little bit more difficult, but just more realistic really.
The cars still feel too planted on the road to me, and if you select S or N tires it just feels more sluggish. On S1 tires, the TVR Tamora feels like guiding a boat round a circuit...
But even if they decided to keep the current physics I would be happy.
The only thing I'd have a problem with is indeed the sense of speed.
I think they can add this in many ways: motion blur, more head movement, bumpier tracks or atleast the sensation of a non smooth surface, etc.
After driving and drifting gt5p and lfs and comparing it to driving and drifting in real life, I have come to this conclusion. I judge physics only on how natural it feels to drive, compared to real life. I do not consider tyre wear, or any damage etc. in this.
For driving a car as fast as possible around a track I find that gt5p is closer to my real life experience, I think lfs has better physics but it feels more natural for me to really push a car in gt5p. But I use drifting to really test how good physics are in a game, as this usually shows the flaws more easily. Lfs is imo as close as I have experienced to the real thing for drifting and I find gt5p to be seriously lacking here so I will rate them separately.
driving fast gt5p 7/10 points knocked off for rubbish gear selection and clutch simulation. Drifting gt5p 2/10.
I will rate a few of the other games I have played.
GT3 5
GT4 2
Enthusia 7
Forza2 5
LFS 8
Richard Burns rally 9
For driving a car as fast as possible around a track I find that gt5p is closer to my real life experience, I think lfs has better physics but it feels more natural for me to really push a car in gt5p. But I use drifting to really test how good physics are in a game, as this usually shows the flaws more easily. Lfs is imo as close as I have experienced to the real thing for drifting and I find gt5p to be seriously lacking here so I will rate them separately.
driving fast gt5p 7/10 points knocked off for rubbish gear selection and clutch simulation. Drifting gt5p 2/10.
I will rate a few of the other games I have played.
GT3 5
GT4 2
Enthusia 7
Forza2 5
LFS 8
Richard Burns rally 9
In LFS there also seems to be a higher effect of engine speed. Like if you(most notable in rear wheel drive) downchange or come off throttle at high revs the rears lose traction a bit, which is deadly.
Also has anyone ever seen a independant wheel lift off the ground in GT, like rear right when starting to turn right under hard braking before weight transfers back.
Also has anyone ever seen a independant wheel lift off the ground in GT, like rear right when starting to turn right under hard braking before weight transfers back.
- 7,582
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
Sadly I don't have experience with "better" sims, so I can't really claim to have an accurate scale, but out of 100, I think GT5P is a 65.
The things that really hurting the score are tires and aerodynamics. Drag, downforce, and drafting all feel off, and I can't get realistic numbers from them. And tires are bad enough to spawn numerous topics on them.
Even if it is a "demo" I think they can get a little better. At the very least, I hope for improvment in the final game.
The things that really hurting the score are tires and aerodynamics. Drag, downforce, and drafting all feel off, and I can't get realistic numbers from them. And tires are bad enough to spawn numerous topics on them.
Even if it is a "demo" I think they can get a little better. At the very least, I hope for improvment in the final game.
- 1,409
- mileret
Yes, tyre engine is another bit that have to be totally rewritten and then GT will be a mark higher in simulation. And next piece is overall car body vertical movements, inner wheel with ability even to roll the car over. Just see what else real cars do:
And with damage and weather, GT could be just complete simulation in future.
I rate GT5p 6/10 for myself.
And with damage and weather, GT could be just complete simulation in future.
I rate GT5p 6/10 for myself.
As it stands, GT5 is a 6/10s for me. However, with the following changes I believe it would move to 7/10s.
I. Force Feedback Doubled - which in turn would provide better g-force feel, more communicative understeer/oversteer force differences, and reduce the "floaty" characteristic of the current model
II. More accurate list of "realistic" tire choices per car - model X should have N3s instead of S2s as an example
Though these aren't actually changing the characteristics of the physics, the overall detached feeling created by these shortcomings has a dramatic effect.
is a 6/10s for me. However, with the following changes I believe it would move to 7/10s. I. Force Feedback Doubled - which in turn would provide better g-force feel, more communicative understeer/oversteer force differences, and reduce the "floaty" characteristic of the current model
II. More accurate list of "realistic" tire choices per car - model X should have N3s instead of S2s as an example
Though these aren't actually changing the characteristics of the physics, the overall detached feeling created by these shortcomings has a dramatic effect.
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- 106
- nakme, GTP_NakmE
I quite agree on the clutch but as long as I could 'clutch-kick' to initiate drift it is good enough. What I dislike most is GT5P is its braking and tyre models.
I wonder if you had ever tried drifting in i-racing? I would say it feels quite similar with GT5P but need more accuracy.
I also test the physics more on drifting factors when the car really gets in its extreme movement. What is upsetting in i-racing for me is no tyre flex (although there is tyre heating and wear). The only car you can drift 'decently' is Pontiac Soltsice and its like drifting in S3 tyres. The lost of traction is not progressive and to make it worst it doesn't even have any e-brake!
So, drifting wise I would rate:
LFS= 7/10 -because it feels very natural (You will mostly get it right once you get the hang of it)
GT5P= 7/10 -because it feels so alive and nerve wrecking. It is so fun and you feel scared to push hard. But as real life its really rewarding when you get it right (although not modeled perfectly).
Enthusia= 5/10 -good physics but clutch not supported. Less immersive.
Rfactor= 4/10 - too many mods. Some are good but not bothered to spend too much time editing and patching!
RBR= 3/10 - Drifting mostly on gravel is spot on but feels awkward on tarmac/asphalt
I-racing= 3/10 -Can't change tyre or power..+ no handbrakes+ no fun...its only for racing I suppose.
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- 6,047
- Simcoeace
Love the "touring cars" video, which, for me, is a good indication of what's missing from GT5P - there is almost no sense of body roll & weight transfer. It's as if the center of gravity is so low, that the only reaction of the car under extreme cornering is understeer. This is what Enthusia did much better than GT4 & Ferrari Challenge does much better than GT5P (although I would agree that the detailed physics for each car in FC may be less developed).
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