Real Guns

[a6m5]

Make sure to give us a thorough report once you tested your suppressor - I have to admit suppressors is the one thing I have no experience with in the firearms world. They are very hard to get here where I live and I've never considered them for any of my SHTF rifles.

I think we had this discussion before, but suppressors are effective in muzzle flash suppression, not really silencing 5.56 they say. I've also heard suppressors makes detecting where shots are coming from more difficult? Don't ask me how. 🤷‍♀️

You are still supposed to wear hearing protection with the 5.56 suppressors, but I'm of course going to try a shot or two without my muffs. I hope they don't hurt my ears. lol

Edit:

So I got the 3-prong Surefire suppressor adapter on with that special adapter. I drove out to the woods after work Friday before last, briefly shot steel gong with it & it was great. Without hearing protection, it sounded like how I remembered .22LR rifles sounded like without hearing protection. Still loud, you should still protect your ears, but absolutely doable. It's nothing like when somebody fires a AR-15 before you could put your muffs on making you jump & swear.

This weekend, I was going plinking Sunday with some friends, so Saturday I went to the local gun store to pick up another Surefire flash hider/suppressor adapter, for my AR pistol.... Except none of my tools fit this one either, because flat surface they cut for the wrench's too narrow for any of my wrenches(including AR/Armorer's, crescent, etc.).

With the 3-prong flash hider from the earlier post, they had that adapter which slides onto the tip, but this one is "closed tine". I just stuck a larger flathead screwdriver in it from the side & spun it. 🤷‍♀️ God Surefire sucks.

So Saturday afternoon, I did a real quick trip to the woods. Other than the muzzle device installs everything went smooth. My full size 16" AR functioned flawlessly with the Surefire RC2(Daniel Defense DDM4V7 upper), and also this pistol with DD Mk18 upper.

I don't have lot of pics from Sunday, but I finally did shoot paper to see if there were any shift in point of impact. I shot 5 rounds with & 5 rounds without suppressor from 100 yards(don't judge, it was rushed lol):

I want to say that I shot the top right paper before putting the suppressor on & top left paper with the suppressor on. I don't really see any shift other than my crappy shooting. Maybe next time I can stabilize the rifle benchrest style & get more accurate results.

Couple of interesting notes:

• One of my buddies shot for the first time with his Aero Precision Lahar suppressor. While he was shooting a AR(5.56) I believe he said it was compatible upto .300WM? It seemed very effective with the 5.56, sounded similar to my Surefire.
• My wait time for the Surefire with new improved ATF check was just over a week. His Aero Precision took well over one year.
• We tried the Surefire on AR with Surefire comp(instead of flash hider), it seemed to be pushing more gas into the face of the shooter?

That's my report to you @Michael88

 

[Michael88]

Thanks for the report, @6m5!

Got to say the rifles look really sweet with the can installed and .22lr noise is also really quiet, should work well to make the direction you are shooting from hard to detect. - 22lr from 50 meters sounds like a branch breaking when somebody steps on it.

POI shift looks negligible and I wouldn't worry about it, its a fighting rifle and that's plenty accurate enough for that task. Only thing I'd worry a little bit is the rifle heating up during prolonged fire from so much more gas being trapped inside the rifle, I read reports from soldiers in Ukraine who ditched the cans because they heated up the barrels so much till they shifted POI themselves. (The barrels warping from getting too hot)
Might be worth to test that out - like I said, I only heard that from Ukrainian soldiers running 14.5 AR's with suppressors

BTW I replaced the flash hider of my rifle with a muzzle brake and there was no fitting wrench for either of them, it was like the FH in your pic - I used brass shims to protect the surface of the muzzle devices and used locking pliers. Man I love locking pliers, there is no limit to their usefulness. I want to be buried with that tool so I can still use it in the afterlife.

 

[a6m5]

Thanks for the report, @6m5!

Got to say the rifles look really sweet with the can installed and .22lr noise is also really quiet, should work well to make the direction you are shooting from hard to detect. - 22lr from 50 meters sounds like a branch breaking when somebody steps on it.

My pleasure. 👍 You bring up something interesting. I think it would be neat to hear suppressed fire from say about 50 yards away, 100 yards away vs unsuppressed. We'll have to try this sometime.

POI shift looks negligible and I wouldn't worry about it, its a fighting rifle and that's plenty accurate enough for that task. Only thing I'd worry a little bit is the rifle heating up during prolonged fire from so much more gas being trapped inside the rifle, I read reports from soldiers in Ukraine who ditched the cans because they heated up the barrels so much till they shifted POI themselves. (The barrels warping from getting too hot)
Might be worth to test that out - like I said, I only heard that from Ukrainian soldiers running 14.5 AR's with suppressors

That makes sense. One good thing is Daniel Defense seems to have reputation for durable, high quality barrels so there's that, but shifting point of impact would be no good, especially in a AR I consider my fighting rifle, SHTF rifle, etc. 😬

Speaking of gases my buddy told me about these charging handles by Radian which directs gases away from the shooter's face when shooting suppressed:

Spendy, but it seems they also come in gray, FDE & OD. Nice!

Bonus: I mentioned these two in the post last year, but here are the actual pics:

M-16 type, or replica rifle. I couldn't really decide which way to go with it, like modern take on a M-16, or replica lookalike. I feel like eventually I'll buy the M-16 style carry handle & handguard. Both upper & lower are Aero Precision. Scope is my old Burris prism scope I took off my Bushmaster 308(sold). It's a combo with their mini-red dot Fast Fire 3 sitting on top.

I've always wanted a Walther & finally got one. It's a PDP Compact with 5" slide. It's more of a range toy for me, but it's been reliable so far in the limited action it has seen. Probably due to much nicer trigger compared to Glocks I'm way more accurate with this gun. Still, I carry Glocks because I'm not taking any chances with concealed carry piece, especially appendix carry. 🥹

 

[Michael88]

View attachment 1352598

I've always wanted a Walther & finally got one. It's a PDP Compact with 5" slide. It's more of a range toy for me, but it's been reliable so far in the limited action it has seen. Probably due to much nicer trigger compared to Glocks I'm way more accurate with this gun. Still, I carry Glocks because I'm not taking any chances with concealed carry piece, especially appendix carry. 🥹

Compact as in 5'' slide with the shorter grip frame?

The Walther PDP has been THE rage around here since they released that pistol. All the stores here carry them with all their variations and they sell them like warm bread, I almost feel sorry for Glock which are getting truly sidelined for the first time I remember.
I had one in my hands, the trigger is amazing, it points really well, good sights and good optics cut - but for some reason it does not fit my hand well, I feel like my hands are too big or the grip is too skinny in circumference. That's the only complaint I have.
I'd pick it over a Glock if one of the backstrap options - which I have not tried- would fit my hand. How big are your hands?

But also good call on not carrying it, it would most likely be totally save but the trigger is a bit too light for my comfort as well. For carry I'd always choose a DA/SA hammer fired pistol but that's just me.

What I did today is cleaning dirty brass by simply soaking it in dishwashing agent and hot water and THEN putting it a tumbler. The results I get with just a brass tumbler alone is unsatisfactory. Look at that, thats 45 brass.
45 is an especially sooty cartridge and now look! Sparkly clean.

 

[a6m5]

Compact as in 5'' slide with the shorter grip frame?

The Walther PDP has been THE rage around here since they released that pistol. All the stores here carry them with all their variations and they sell them like warm bread, I almost feel sorry for Glock which are getting truly sidelined for the first time I remember.
I had one in my hands, the trigger is amazing, it points really well, good sights and good optics cut - but for some reason it does not fit my hand well, I feel like my hands are too big or the grip is too skinny in circumference. That's the only complaint I have.
I'd pick it over a Glock if one of the backstrap options - which I have not tried- would fit my hand. How big are your hands?

I'm not sure of the size difference, but compact seems to be listed with shorter grip(18rd vs 15rd capacity). My hand's medium to smaller medium, and compact grip gives me just enough to get a full grip. I do like it, but "compact" grip does feel very much on the smaller side.

In my area it seems to be Sig P320 that took away the Glock sales? I want to say the base model started around $400~$450, combine that with the Sig Sauer name & US Army contract that was enough to win over the market. Of course with the reports of accidental discharges sales might have slowed down.

But also good call on not carrying it, it would most likely be totally save but the trigger is a bit too light for my comfort as well. For carry I'd always choose a DA/SA hammer fired pistol but that's just me.

I do trust the Glock's triple safety system & the reputation. I am paranoid about the appendix carry & Glock's the only gun I trust to holster that way. I have seen a video of one incident where guy shot himself doing that, but it was reported that his shirt was caught in the trigger when he holstered it & it went off when he bent over(😭).

What I did today is cleaning dirty brass by simply soaking it in dishwashing agent and hot water and THEN putting it a tumbler. The results I get with just a brass tumbler alone is unsatisfactory. Look at that, thats 45 brass.
45 is an especially sooty cartridge and now look! Sparkly clean.

Nice. 👍 Nobody I know seem to reload ammo anymore, I'm glad to see you are still at it!

 

[Michael88]

I'm not sure of the size difference, but compact seems to be listed with shorter grip(18rd vs 15rd capacity). My hand's medium to smaller medium, and compact grip gives me just enough to get a full grip. I do like it, but "compact" grip does feel very much on the smaller side.

In my area it seems to be Sig P320 that took away the Glock sales? I want to say the base model started around $400~$450, combine that with the Sig Sauer name & US Army contract that was enough to win over the market. Of course with the reports of accidental discharges sales might have slowed down.

I do trust the Glock's triple safety system & the reputation. I am paranoid about the appendix carry & Glock's the only gun I trust to holster that way. I have seen a video of one incident where guy shot himself doing that, but it was reported that his shirt was caught in the trigger when he holstered it & it went off when he bent over(😭).

Nice. 👍 Nobody I know seem to reload ammo anymore, I'm glad to see you are still at it!

Oh yeah stores are flooded with all kinds of P320 variants, they handle really nicely and shoot really well but because of the reports of them being unsafe I took one apart (updated model) and lets say the internals do not inspire confidence in safety. I even heard the manual safeties of the military variants wear out over time to the point they no longer work reliably.

People here are well aware of the safety issues of the P320 and see no reason to pick them over a Walther or Glock, understandably.
I do think they are WAY sexier than the Walther and Glock though, especially the 5'' M17. Such a shame.

About appendix carry, I'm not allowed to carry here but I still have an appendix holster and train with it on the range. I watched some video about carry and they showed how to safely pull and re-holster. They'd lean backward a bit so even if the gun discharged for whatever reason it would miss the ''important bits'' and shoot the dirt a 2 meters or so in front of you. That's the way I do it since I'm paranoid about it too.

And yeah, I still reload! Most people probably don't reload since it makes little sense with 9mm and 223, I don't reload those either. But those in the pic are .45 cases, 100 rounds cost 60 bucks here, with reloading I can cut that in half. 308 I reload as well, and all the obscure calibers.
Couldn't afford to train with the big boomers if I didn't reload thats for sure.

 

[coryclifford]

Smith Wesson M&P (Shield Plus or not) took away a lot from Glock as well.

Shield Plus, no safety, appendix kydex, and not have one chambered is fine to me. Just mag dump for safety 🤫

 

[Michael88]

Kinda cool, largest window pistol optic by FAR:

 

[Michael88]

Finally, Glock is now making the famous G17L (6'' longslide G17) as a 5th generation model, including MOS. It was only available in Gen3 - until now.

Now put the Cyelee bull optic on it and you've got the bulkiest pistol in the world!

 

[Michael88]

Has anyone invested into a PDW? Stumbled across this video recently and it makes a lot of sense:

 

[coryclifford]

No idea how the Sig is, but…

 

[Xavier2342]

Hey everyone, how've you been? Before it got too hot outside, my buddies and I were primarily focused on shooting long-range. I'm patiently waiting for cooler weather so I can go back to shooting outside. Until then, I'll be at the indoor range 😄.

A few weeks ago, my little brothers were in town, and I took them to the gun range. As we're getting checked-in I look at the wall of rental rifles, and see this beauty. I have wanted to shoot one of these for quite some time, but could never stomach the $3K asking price of these rifles. This was a fun rifle to shoot. A bit bulky, but not too cumbersome to get use to. Great ergonomics, good trigger and a hilariously loud muzzle brake from the factory.

@a6m5, I know I am late to the party but congrats on getting your suppressor. How long did you have to wait? Did you file as an individual or Trust? Are you planning on getting more?

@Michael88, what 45 ACP firearm have you been shooting lately? I thought you got rid of you CZ 97? As for PDW, people arou d here still seem to prefer AR pistols, PSA AKV or SBR MP5 clones.

I hope all is well for you guys. Take care.

 

[a6m5]

Has anyone invested into a PDW? Stumbled across this video recently and it makes a lot of sense:

Ahead of his time....

Trigger discipline non-existent... 🥹 It’s micro roni with Gen 4 Glock 19, but I don’t think I’ve shot with Micro Roni since that time in 2019.

@a6m5, I know I am late to the party but congrats on getting your suppressor. How long did you have to wait? Did you file as an individual or Trust? Are you planning on getting more?

Thank you! It was just few days if that, due to new system ATF was running, and the reason why I pulled the trigger on a suppressor in the first place(went individual). I want suppressors for all calibers I shoot, but it's still a lot of money. Right now probably Blackout or .22LR suppressors are at the top of my wishlist.

 

[Xavier2342]

@a6m5 I've been on the fence about getting a suppressor, especially with the current wait times. A friend of mine recently filed as an individual and was able to take his suppressor home in 5 days. I think I will eventually get a suppressor at some point in the future. But considering the overall cost of ownership. I'd rather spend that money on my Evo.

 

[Xavier2342]

I am very happy about these updated versions of the CZ P-07 and P-09. I just hope that these aren't absurdly expensive.

 

[Brett]

Knowing CZ and their prices on the previous P-07/P-09, they should be pretty reasonable.

 

[Xavier2342]

Knowing CZ and their prices on the previous P-07/P-09, they should be pretty reasonable.

From what I've seen, they've been very reasonable. I'm going to try to get my hands on a P-09C (P-07). But I'm a bit hesitate to do so because at some point, they will be releasing a "tactical" version of these with a threaded barrel and higher capacity magazines. They've done this with the previous P-07, P-09, and P-10.

 

[coryclifford]

Air gun?’
Daisy 880.
Iron sites.
It’d hurt ya.

9mm
44 mag
12 gauge

But I can shoot the air gun whenever

 

[coryclifford]

Wouldn’t charge, have iPhone, needed a laugh. And apparently the LG could save you from harm because it didn’t pass through or even bend the back.

And Hot Wheels can be pretty tough too.

Hehe.

 

[Xavier2342]

This past weekend I attended the EVT Suppressed Range Day and it was awesome! PWS UXR, B&T APC300 SD, Genesis Arm TTI JW4 Dracarys Gen-12 (full-auto), Show Low MFG Blackjack (16"), and Q Boombox, were some of the few firearms I was able to shoot.

Prior to this event, I had never shot a full-auto firearm. At the event I was also able to shoot several full-auto MP5 varient SBRs, full-auto M4 and a full-auto Glock. I wish I would have paid more attention to the details of the Glock I shot because in my hands it felt like a Glock 17 but it may have been a Glock 18.

Majority of the firearms I shot at this event were suppressed. So this gave me an opportunity to not only experience how well these suppressors performed but also compare them to one another. At the Surefire bay, I was able to compare their SOCOM556-RC2 and SOCOM556-RC3 suppressors. Both of these suppressors handled back pressure extremely very well, but I could still smell a small amount of gas from with the RC2 versus the RC3. According to the Surefire Rep, although the RC3 flow-through design they only saw a 1 dB increase in sound compared to the RC2.

I will definitely be attending EVT Suppressed Range Day next year. I am also looking forward to attending CANCON next year.

I hope all is well with everyone, take care.

 

[Michael88]

Prior to this event, I had never shot a full-auto firearm. At the event I was also able to shoot several full-auto MP5 varient SBRs, full-auto M4 and a full-auto Glock. I wish I would have paid more attention to the details of the Glock I shot because in my hands it felt like a Glock 17 but it may have been a Glock 18.

Sounds like you had a whole lot of fun! The Mp5's are really controllable even at full auto - or so I've heard



Haven't done much with my guns lately due to work, besides the weekly trip to the range of course. But I am still improving my pistol skills, shot this at 15 meters with my pistol but with very fast double and triple taps from low ready. Trying to improve my pistol self defense skills.

 

[Xavier2342]

@Michael88I never truly understood the hype about the MP5 until I shot one that was full-auto. Also, what pistol have you been shooting lately?

 

[a6m5]

Just when I thought my main rifle was close to completion, I keep complicating things. 🤦‍♂️ If anybody's interested in the history of this rifle: My first AR-15. M&P Sport II. $499. Absolutely loved the quality of this rifle, how it shot. I get a $1,000 gift card, spent much of it on Daniel Defense DDM4 V7 upper. Replaced the original M&P upper with it(sold the M&P upper), DD upper with M-LOK was so great I think this was right around when this AR became my main rifle. While I was happy with the cheap M&P lower I did see difference in quality when I got BCM lower to pair with another AR I have(pistol, DD MK18). I tried getting another lower from BCM, but timing was always off & I gave up after while. Recently I saw Daniel Defense lower advertised for $555 by my local gun store, timing was perfect so I got it. It's even the DDM4 lower, same one that goes with my upper. $555 is a lot for lower, but I want to say that I paid around $900 for the upper & while I never shopped for complete Daniel Defense AR-15, (under)$1,500 is probably a great deal for one.

So this is where my work started. I've never like the Daniel Defense grip or the stock in the past. No problem, I'll replace them with my favorite existing Magpul furniture... I start trying to remove the Magpul UBR 2.0 stock, I forgot you pretty much have to disassemble the darn thing, also replace its proprietary buffer tube with it. I had too much going on, so I gave up & decided to make do with the stock DDM4 stock for now. 😢

I move onto the easy part. The grip. The DD grip start coming off easily as expected... along with the trigger guard. I didn't realize that DD grip & trigger guard is one piece. 🤦‍♂️ No sweat, I'll just use the one off the M&P lower, it's already painted with camo like the rest of the rifle... M&P trigger guard is solid casted part of the entire lower. 😂🤦‍♂️

Simultaneously I had ended my experiment with the canted mini-red dot mount(T-Rex Arms) & had planned to mount it on top of the ACOG instead. This did go smoothly. It did bother me a little the RMR mini red dot was unpainted black & rest of the rifle was mostly tan, green or painted camo, but I think I have a fix on the way. Been interested in getting kill flash for my ACOG, but I wasn't even thinking about the red dots & weapon lights(🤦‍♂️ again). At least this kills two birds with one stone, I can paint the slip-on kill flash. Same company that makes the kill flash, they have really cool one for ACOG, but theirs is secured where I have the RMR mounted & taking space. I'll keep looking for similar kill flash/cap. Here's how my AR looks right now:

While latest upgrades hasn't gone smoothly, I really do like the look of the rifle & digging the RMR sitting on top instead of my previous setup:

It wasn't bad, but lining up target feels more natural with red dot on top. Tactically it might be better & faster with the canted mount, but who knows(I just went with the comfort lol).

I still plan on disassembling the UBR 2.0 to install back on the rifle, get kill flash/cap for ACOG & eventually like to replace the Streamlight weapon light with Surefire, but that's gonna take more money & time.

P.S. When I was sighting in the RMR red dot & shooting this rifle for the first time with the new DD lower it had one failure-to-feed! It's been such a reliable rifle malfunction's been nearly nonexistent. I'm hoping it was just the magazine, but I also can't remember the last time I l cleaned it so who knows. Another 🤦‍♂️ for me, my fault!

Wouldn’t charge, have iPhone, needed a laugh. And apparently the LG could save you from harm because it didn’t pass through or even bend the back.

And Hot Wheels can be pretty tough too.

What did you shoot them with?

This past weekend I attended the EVT Suppressed Range Day and it was awesome! PWS UXR, B&T APC300 SD, Genesis Arm TTI JW4 Dracarys Gen-12 (full-auto), Show Low MFG Blackjack (16"), and Q Boombox, were some of the few firearms I was able to shoot.

Prior to this event, I had never shot a full-auto firearm. At the event I was also able to shoot several full-auto MP5 varient SBRs, full-auto M4 and a full-auto Glock. I wish I would have paid more attention to the details of the Glock I shot because in my hands it felt like a Glock 17 but it may have been a Glock 18.

Majority of the firearms I shot at this event were suppressed. So this gave me an opportunity to not only experience how well these suppressors performed but also compare them to one another. At the Surefire bay, I was able to compare their SOCOM556-RC2 and SOCOM556-RC3 suppressors. Both of these suppressors handled back pressure extremely very well, but I could still smell a small amount of gas from with the RC2 versus the RC3. According to the Surefire Rep, although the RC3 flow-through design they only saw a 1 dB increase in sound compared to the RC2.

View attachment 1407117

I will definitely be attending EVT Suppressed Range Day next year. I am also looking forward to attending CANCON next year.

I hope all is well with everyone, take care.

I've never shot any kind of full auto or select fire. Jealous. 🥹

My suppressor is RC2, but gas is flipping nasty. I pretty much have to hold my breath while shooting. I will invest in a charging handle designed to divert gas away from shooter's face in the near future. 🤢

Sounds like you had a whole lot of fun! The Mp5's are really controllable even at full auto - or so I've heard



Haven't done much with my guns lately due to work, besides the weekly trip to the range of course. But I am still improving my pistol skills, shot this at 15 meters with my pistol but with very fast double and triple taps from low ready. Trying to improve my pistol self defense skills.

View attachment 1408041

Been stocking up on 9mm, so I can train. Picked up a full case couple days ago on Black Friday sale too(1,000rds). At 15 yards I can probably keep everything on the paper, but not centered like that. Forget about it at speed. I need to shoot more, on regular basis!

 

[coryclifford]

@a6m5 Gamo Varmint or maybe Daisy 880, I can’t remember. 😀

 

[Michael88]

My suppressor is RC2, but gas is flipping nasty. I pretty much have to hold my breath while shooting. I will invest in a charging handle designed to divert gas away from shooter's face in the near future. 🤢

You said you weren't big on cleaning - but you do take off the can after every session right? I am not familiar with the RC2 but I do know that when a suppressor cools off condensation will happen inside it and that's why it needs to be taken off of the rifle because the condensation will wreck the muzzle and the can needs to be disassembled, cleaned and the threads lubed.
If the rifle is stored muzzle up the condensation can travel down the barrel into the action and cause damage there as well.

I know several people who ruined their barrels and their can by not taking them off and not cleaning them, one even managed to destroy his suppressor because rust and powder residue caused an obstruction and he blew off the entire can ripping the threads off the barrel. I kid you not.

 

[coryclifford]

Not really a big deal to brag about, but I will. There’s something about pellet guns indoors that is so satisfying compared to staring at a computer screen.

Gamo pellet in a Daisy 880.
Ketchup packet in a Gamo tin.
And a new Hotwheels car.

💪

It’s fun getting gooder.

 

[a6m5]

You said you weren't big on cleaning - but you do take off the can after every session right? I am not familiar with the RC2 but I do know that when a suppressor cools off condensation will happen inside it and that's why it needs to be taken off of the rifle because the condensation will wreck the muzzle and the can needs to be disassembled, cleaned and the threads lubed.
If the rifle is stored muzzle up the condensation can travel down the barrel into the action and cause damage there as well.

I know several people who ruined their barrels and their can by not taking them off and not cleaning them, one even managed to destroy his suppressor because rust and powder residue caused an obstruction and he blew off the entire can ripping the threads off the barrel. I kid you not.

I rarely shoot suppressed, but when I do, I take it off before packing up. That's great information though, I had no idea. Thanks for the heads up. 👍

Gamo pellet in a Daisy 880.
Ketchup packet in a Gamo tin.
And a new Hotwheels car.

That's a lot of power.

 

[coryclifford]

• Maximum Muzzle Velocity with BBs: 800 feet per second
• Maximum Muzzle Velocity with Pellets: 665 feet per second

Cool, but not compared to a real gun but I certainly don’t want to be hit with it. Though I have caught a few rebounds to the face. Certainly leaves a mark. And yeah, almost shot my eye out. 💪

The Gamo Varmint I have says 1250 FPS with the FPA Platinum pellets. Ears ring for a while. But it’s fun to crack the sound barrier in my apartment. 😀