"Real" Instruments or "Computer" Music?Music

[Tesla]

What's the difference between "hitting buttons" on a computer and on a piano? Or strumming a guitar string, or hitting a drum kit? All of these actions are simplistic, anyone could perform them. Is it right to say that it requires more skill to do this than someone performing the same action through a MIDI controller (which is a replica instrument that transfers the keys you play into signals which the computer changes into notes for those unaware)?

Music is the sound that is produced at the end of this chain. What is done to achieve that sound shouldn't matter to you if you love music. Imagine that every symphony had never been written until this day, where some young fellow created an exact replica on a computer. Would this not be real music, despite it sounding exactly the same?

Or do you think that, perhaps, it is better in the sense that it can be performed perfectly live, without the need for any backing tracks? With the advancement of technology, we can now roll up to a gig and bring with us MIDI controllers which can perfectly replicate any 'real' instrument and play synthesized sounds too, completely on the fly.

Personally, I'd be as interested in seeing a live musician as I would a live performer.

 

[Mark T]

I think that instruments require a great standard of skill to play at the top levels, especially the piano.

However the talent also falls on the producer/composer/writer as they make the song what it is.

So in my opinion an electronic composer using software is just as talented as someone writing music for a piano. Songs produce emotions and I have been moved by electronic dance music just as much as I have been by a song written by Debussy.

If the music sounds good to you, it shouldn't matter how it was produced.

I have to say that when you see someone playing a musical instrument live you really get a feel for the talent they have. Orchestras and pianists always give me goosebumps.

 

[oopssorryy]

Real. When a good musician plays, it's not perfect, which is what I like. Take a guitarist doing a vibrato. None of the many slight bends are going to be exactly the same, or as fast as one another. To me it gives the music a more human and personal sound.

Now I'm sure that someone could go in and make a digital song with the same tonal qualities, and slight imperfections as real instruments, but it would take a much longer time to do so. If the end result is the same why not just pick up a real instrument?

 

[finnracer]

There's something about being able to play something on an instrument that brings it so far beyond what a computer can do (which is a lot!). Computer generated sound effects and music often feels as though they are lacking in the soul and emotion which makes 'instrumental' music so good. Ultimately its down to personal preferences but I just feel that computers should be used at most to compliment, rather than take the place of 'real' instruments.

 

[F1GTR]

Having seen Radiohead play live, I can absolutely say that laptops are instruments too. So both. A 'real' instrument can sound just as soulless as a computer, it's all down to the fleshy bit behind the equipment to really give it some soul.

 

[Skython]

Like others. Real instruments do it for me. You can't create a singer with a computer, especially not a good one. Nor can you play drums the same, with an electronic drum kit if you hit the same drum too quickly it just triggers the same sound over and over and doesn't take in how hard you hit it), you can't get the same emotion from any instrument. I say, play the real instrument, and then do the leveling via computer. Real instruments are just so much more soulful.

 

[Horde_R35]

Music has to be played with musical instruments.

 

[edawg456]

Music has to be played with musical instruments.

This

 

[Skython]

Music has to be played with musical instruments.

It doesn't have to be, it's just better if you do.

 

[Northstar]

Well, I love Hendrix as well as Daft Punk, that should tell you how I feel. Both types have an insane amount to offer.

Music has to be played with musical instruments.

Guessing you aren't familiar with Stomp? A musical instrument is what ever the hell you manage to come up with, hell a pen and a desk can be one.

Honestly, stop worrying about what is or isn't music and just shut up and listen.

^Goes for all people over obsessed about what other people listen to.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Time to break into my own book of "simple" definitions.

Music: any sequence of sounds.


Musical Instrument: anything that produces sound, especially if easily controlled.


MrMelancholy15: a fan of liquid DnB, ambient garage, and chillstep, who really can't live without electronic music, and/or orchestral music. Also a fan of racing, and a fan of this.


This thread: a discussion of something which is, in the opinion of MrMelancholy15, entirely unfair.



Explanation behind this: there are far too many vague, unjustified opinions and unfair assumptions.

What's the difference between "hitting buttons" on a computer and on a piano? Or strumming a guitar string, or hitting a drum kit? All of these actions are simplistic, anyone could perform them. Is it right to say that it requires more skill to do this than someone performing the same action through a MIDI controller (which is a replica instrument that transfers the keys you play into signals which the computer changes into notes for those unaware)?

This especially hurts me, as a producer of chillstep/ambient garage. I've learned to play almost every instrument in existence, and I still choose to have the expressionism of "hitting buttons" on a computer; with my Oxygen 49 MIDI keyboard. So, in fairness, can I just ask why anyone would care about the talent it takes to play a song?


Do we honestly need to debate/discuss the validity of electronic instruments, or acoustic instruments? Or, whatever sort of electric instrument fits between the two? I can play beautiful melodies on so many instruments, but, the second someone tells me to make a full-length electronic song, I lose my talents.


So many musicians see it this way, too. I like Chopin's renditions of other songs, but not his own creations. The musical style of that era doesn't suit my tastes as much.


No, my tastes are diverse, and uncommon. There is no invalid music.

^ Warning for some slight language (involving brotherly love, death, and some sacrifice)


I don't care whether I choose to listen to Miyuki & Jan Amit-Dreamy Mind, with its clear Japanese/Scandinavian influences, or BoyChild-For You, My Love (Part II)


They're all good songs, it's all good music, and I don't see a point in arguing whether the Miyuki song (with nothing but MIDI samples) or the BoyChild song (with, I think, real instruments) is better. I can't pick a favourite.

 

[NLxAROSA]

The Beatles used a comb to make music in one of their songs. If it makes sound, you can make music with it, whether that be computer, a piano, or a bucket with a stick.

 

[Dustone]

I like both. Im a fan of Rock/Metal/Industrial basically anything.

To me its not the skill of the musician (not to say I dont appreciate their skill) but its the creativity. Whether it is achieved through computers or not and as long as it has a good beat, I will love it!

 

[BobK]

If I'm just listening to the radio/MP3 player/whatever, it doesn't really make any difference how it was produced so long as it sounds good.

If I'm watching a performance, however, that's a completely different matter.

 

[gorsad]

If I'm just listening to the radio/MP3 player/whatever, it doesn't really make any difference how it was produced so long as it sounds good.

If I'm watching a performance, however, that's a completely different matter.

This is pretty much me. 👍

 

[Roger the Horse]

Having seen Radiohead play live

You LUCKY SON OF A...

Anyway, I think Radiohead perfectly sum this up. They're just as good at using guitar's and piano's and other traditional instruments to make amazing music as they are at using Laptops. I think the best way to sum this up is to compare the live and studio versions of 'Like Spinning Plates'.
I absolutely love both to bits, but they couldn't be more different, although to be honest I think I prefer the live version simply because that melody couldn't be better suited to piano...
So maybe that's not the best song to use, but if you compare two of my favourite Radiohead songs, OK Computer's guitar rock epic (that only lasts 4 minutes, self indulgence be damned!) 'Lucky' and Kid A's techno anthem 'Idioteque', both are equally brilliant, but the only common instrument is Thom Yorke's Vocals.
It is not the instrument that matters, it is how it is used.

 

[PeterJB]

Always real instruments for me. I will admit that I compose on a computer, though that's only because it's a hell of a lot easier than writing out notation by hand. I don't mind the occasional use of computerized effects, Pink Floyd did it, and there are certain sounds which you can't get from acoustic instruments, but it's ridiculous when auto-tune is slapped on every note because the singer can't sing in tune by themselves. Most instruments can actually make a lot more sounds than most people realize, if played correctly.

 

[lintels123]

Instruments by far, nothing sounds better than a well tuned combination of brass, string, percussion in my opinion.

 

[terminator363]

I usually prefer music with synths and guitars. Real instruments give a sense of realism and show of the skill of the musician. But I love powerful synth as well.

 

[lbsf1]

I normally prefer actual instruments, nothing can beat a 1970's electric guitar, I'm not going to describe the sound but I just like how imperfect it is.

However confusingly I find this more awesome than the original guitar version.

 

[nielsenman2]

The difference between music on a computer or with a Rock Band drum kit and with a real instrument like a saxophone,piano,drums, and guitar is you are really not playing and experiencing it.I play Alto.Saxophone and is learning to play drums because of the experience. Since I learned to play them;(and learning);it would be really different.Yeah,you can just hit the blue or red pads but until you actually hit the head of the drum with that stick its not the same.There is not a Rock Band plus saxophone so I cant really tell you what your missing there. Well that is my reply.p.s go to youtube and type in curry marching band 2012 and im the tallest alto.saxophone.

 

[Slash]

Real, because the sound is much more "raw" in a sense that you can hear fingers sliding across strings, no sound is EXACTLY the same...while it may sound strikingly similar, it's not.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

*...the experience between playing a real instrument/electronic instrument is huge...*

I disagree. I don't find too big a difference, between Rock Band and real drumming. I do both, without problem. People with good drumming technique will more often still do better at Rock Band, and vice-versa.


But, with the number of instruments I can play, it doesn't make sense to have every one of them, in their original, acoustic form. It would take up too much space, and cost more than the car I recently got. Well, piece it together; I could get every instrument in its acoustic form, or I could get those same instruments for the "computer music," and save money, and space.


I've learned to play just about every instrument that you don't breathe into, and some that you do breathe into. That's going to cost $20,000 for 90% of the instruments in their acoustic form, and take up entire rooms (marimba, piano, drums, xylophone, baritone/euphonium, bell trees, tubular bells etc.) or I could just get one keyboard, and be able to play all of those, except the drums, which I use the mouse for.


If you prefer the classical [acoustic] sound, more power to you, so do I, but, it's not really the more logical decision.

 

[Lazy Liquid]

I listen to the music, not how it was maded.
Sometimes ignorance is a bless.

 

[Dan]

Personally, I absolutely love electronic music. There are as many opportunities to produce beautiful melodies with it as there are with real instruments. An example would be Drum N Bass. I feel that DnB is one of the most beautiful forms of music that exists. It blends real drums and sometimes other real instruments like a guitar with electronic sounds via a computer. People are able to produce strong, driving songs like that of Pendulum, or produce something light and beautiful like the songs in in this megamix. Music is music. If you can't appreciate the fact that music can be anything, then you can't appreciate music at all.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

But Pendulum is sorta ostracized within DnB circles................ For being overly emotionless, meaningless, and electronic.


If you want to talk about a symbiosis of "real" instruments with a touch of electronic music, there's "Asa-You Don't Have to Be Sorry." Well, there's that, or "boyChild - For You, My Love (Part 2)."

 

[braunracing88]

As someone who actually plays a real instrument, my preference is for real instrument. I play electric bass guitar and really enjoy the sound of this low-end beast that can crank out anything from gut-rumbling lows that can start earthquakes to clear, delicate highs that absolutely sing. It's not an easy instrument to play or record well, but when you hit the right notes and your instrument is tuned properly, the results can be electrifying.

 

[Sage Ages]

What's the difference between "hitting buttons" on a computer and on a piano? Or strumming a guitar string, or hitting a drum kit? .

Buttons don't cut into your sweaty, tired fingers when you press them.

 

[braunracing88]

Buttons don't cut into your sweaty, tired fingers when you press them.

After a while of fretting strings, you develop calluses, so it doesn't hurt as much.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Buttons don't cut into your sweaty, tired fingers when you press them.

I don't think it's fair to call "computer music" out for all being "pressing buttons." I just saw a documentary by a small-time ambient producer who records all of his own real samples (birds singing, snapping fingers etc.) And only then plays the sample in a rhythmic and melodic manner.

There's almost no "pushing buttons" in the sort of music worth making. That's a poor assumption made by uneducated traditional musicians. Basically, because they don't know about electronic music (like Gloom, the guy I mentioned above, or Asa who plays and records himself playing a classical violin and such, before working with electronic samples.)

Yes, Rave music (the sort of music that is played at raves) and such is made by pressing buttons. Those rave songs are made with almost no emotion, they're only there for dancing.

As someone who actually plays a real instrument, my preference is for real instrument. I play electric bass guitar and really enjoy the sound of this low-end beast that can crank out anything from gut-rumbling lows that can start earthquakes to clear, delicate highs that absolutely sing. It's not an easy instrument to play or record well, but when you hit the right notes and your instrument is tuned properly, the results can be electrifying.

You play one instrument, I respect that you play one instrument. But, I play hundreds (I'm a general percussionist, if you give me an instrument that's played by hitting things together, I can play it) and I disagree whole heartedly with everything you said after "as someone who actually plays a real instrument," and until "it's not an easy instrument to play."

"I play electric bass guitar and really enjoy the sound of this low-end beast that can crank out anything from gut-rumbling lows that can start earthquakes to clear, delicate highs that absolutely sing."

So, which part of this is impossible for a guy with an electric keyboard? Do you think that the instrumentalist (a guy with an electronic keyboard) doesn't control the pitch? I have 12 octaves worth of notes to choose from on my keyboard. I can make a sound from 1 Hz all the way up to 25,000 Hz. Yes, sounds that can't even be heard with the human ear, can be produced with an electric keyboard, hooked up to a computer. Doesn't that give more creative possibilities?


Yes, I agree, that people should actually play real instruments for the "human playback" effect, but you make it sound like "computer musicians" aren't working with pitch and tone. We do work with pitch and tone, just the same as you.

What we simply can't control with our keyboard, is in the following list:

-whammy bar
-strumming techniques (every strum sounds the same with electronic music)
-flams (drummer's techniques)


Everything else can be accurately reproduced with computer music. Legato, staccato, pizzicato, every dynamic level... It can all be reproduced.


When an instrumentalist is performing a song, the instrumentalist is still making minor mistakes in tempo. The performer can choose to play "a rubato" if the performer wants. Electronic music vocalists often don't use any touch-up methods (auto-tune, pitch fix, digital effects) that even rock bands use whilst playing real instruments.


I see no reason why the two worlds can't co-exist. I've had people personally attack me for choosing to make electronic music. When I list the number of instruments I know how to play, they all say "I'm sorry for suggesting that you don't know how to play a real instrument. Clearly you do." Or something close. But, why attack someone for something you don't even know about? Why have a disagreement without being first informed?