Real life rule enforcement in GT5.

[Inter 61]

If this topic has already been covered in another thread then I apologies but I think a great idea for GT5 would be to have real life FIA/MSA driving regulations in the game.

Reason I think this is that by doing this, it'll both A, get rid of alot of the acrade driving techniques of some gamers and B, it'll make it more like competing in a real race event where you have to obey a set of rules.

Examples of driving regs would be Flag signals and warnings and disqualifications for careless/dangerous driving, going across the white lines to gain an advantage (i.e. kerb and run off use), making sudden changes of direction on a straight piece of track and impeading another competitors progress by weaving/blocking.

Now feel free to say I've completly lost the plot if you like :-).

 

[Stevisiov]

No I wouldn't say you have lost the plot, in fact I would agree with you on that one, I play GTR frequently and that has a more accurate, and better enforced system.

This however may not be the answer for a mass-market game like GT, while I would like it, I think there would be plenty of casual gamers who would simply hate this change in rules since they would much prefare to use the AI as a moving barrier to help them negotiate corners. I still think that a system in place like the one typical of GTR would be better than the truly idiotic cheat prevention system PD put into rallying, the notorious 5 second penalty, because the truth is the AI is too cretinous to avoid running into the back of. They simply hoard the racing line a slam you if you are in the way, without any penalties, or consequences for them, so maybe a more realistic rule system is the way forward. I certainly think this would help online mode, to prevent stupid irresponsible drivers who's sole ambition is to hinder others peoples efforts.

 

[Jim Prower]

HOWEVER, it wouldn't be too bad if rules extended past the old "Tires and Horsepower" restrictions, or the "Certian Model" thing. I'd like to see some spec stuff, like weight restrictions, Aerodynamics, and the such.

on the Reckless/careless driving front: Penalties to bumping (especially online.) would be good to impliment. You can't avoid every shunt, But, If, say, you hit a car (or cars) more than five times, and gain the position each time, it calls you into the pits.

Also, if each time is recorded,this could be used as a meter to help curb aggressive drivers online: the worst would get banned.

 

[Kent]

I agree that Rules and Regulations could (as I'm going to put it...) "use more structure."

I don't think it would be very easy to penalize something like blocking your opponent by swerving, heck, what if you just wanted to get over for traffic lapping you and it cost you a penalty?
(that's the kind of mistake a computer makes when you simply say to penalize irratic driving when in the position to be passed)

None the less, I do think the races could use more rules.
Even (as Jim mentioned), the HP/Tire/KG situation... That could use some major refinement since there are a multitude of races in GT4 where, for example, the 1050kg/500hp RX7 LM will be doing nothing more than briinging up the rear of an LMP grid. 👎

Another example of the regulations problems in GT4 can be seen in the PD cup where one RWD Nissan Z is always running in a pack of what is dominated by FF cars with less power (usually followed at the back of the grid by a really weak FF).

Situations where basic "entry rules" from real life aren't accounted for is just one more problem brought out by the A-spec points system. And to think that there are races like the Japan GT championship where everything is so close and well grouped.

Once again though, I think rules to change how a player drives are difficult to enforce. Only track boundries and physical contact can be easily moderated and even then there are holes in system used in GT4.

My biggest hope for GT5 would be to see AI follow rules enforced on the player... i.e. special conditions events- penalty worthy offenses... I hate being rear-ended by the AI just to see him speed along with the 5-second penalty I always get for doing that to him!

Last order of buisness...
I think this thread in general falls under the "Things I'd like to see in GT5 other than cars..." thread.
However, with how specific the subject of this thread is...
I'd like to let another moderator weigh-in on that subject before taking any action. None the less, please take note that this thread may be merged (in case you come back one day and it seems to have vanished).

Good subject and question though. 👍

 

[Tenacious D]

I think real life rules rule.

However, I think the strict version of those rules would best fit an actual Career Mode, where you entered a year long race series. In GT Mode, more lenient rules would be more fitting, and perhaps Arcade would have no rules whatsoever.

As Kent says, there needs to be a system in GT5 where cars are "homologated," or tuned with slight boosts and restrictions so that they all will basically end up with the same lap times. Blowing the other cars away or chasing a rabbit car you can't catch doesn't make for a fun race.

 

[afc2112]

Hey! I like to dominate races every once in a while! hahahaha!!!

But yeah, I'm all for flags & disqualifications...How about stop & go penalties (per ACO) on endurance races?

 

[Michael88]

Yeah, real rules like we have in real life racing would be a great addition to GT5.
GT2 did a good job with power restrictions keeping races close, and the AI used cars from only 1 series; like the GT 300 and 500 series, the power restrictions of 493 HP also ensured great races.
GT5 needs more structure, GT4 races were mostly all over the place with cars of totally different classes and decades racing for the 1st place, if PD makes a better AI the should also include stuff like safety car periods, yellow flags, and even a DQ for unfair and brutal drivers.

 

[aaron5829]

I would really like to see the DUMB AI move away from the racing line when we are ready to lap them.... BTW.. i'm new here..

 

[TheMoose]

I would really like to see the DUMB AI move away from the racing line when we are ready to lap them.... BTW.. i'm new here..

That should be easily doable since the AI cars in F1CE do that already.

 

[Mark T]

If your going to have online racing then you need point deductions for those racers who will cheat to get to the top of leaderboards. What's to stop someone rear ending you the corner before the finish line. I don't know how they seperate a genuine spin out from a deliberate crash though.

 

[opelgt1969]

If your going to have online racing then you need point deductions for those racers who will cheat to get to the top of leaderboards. What's to stop someone rear ending you the corner before the finish line. I don't know how they seperate a genuine spin out from a deliberate crash though.

If they had voice control (headphones) at least I would say I'm sorry because I don't wreck someone to win (unless it's a just for fun wrecking race which is fun if everyone knows about it and agrees).

 

[Inter 61]

If your going to have online racing then you need point deductions for those racers who will cheat to get to the top of leaderboards. What's to stop someone rear ending you the corner before the finish line. I don't know how they seperate a genuine spin out from a deliberate crash though.

In real life, if you "loaded" some poor sod going into a corner, the officals will deem it as delibrate unless you let the person you pushed off line back by on the following straight. If this doesn't happen then a typical penalty would be to dock you a certain amount of places depending on what the clerk of the course seems to be an appropiate amount (could be docked last).

One way they could interept this on GT5 would be go give you a time limit of say 10 seconds after nudging someone wide to let them back by or you'll get docked in positions to 1 place behind the other driver's original finishing position after the race has finished (e.g. you're 3rd and you push the 2nd place driver at the last turn just enough to let you sneak through on the inside and you don't let him back by before the end you get docked back to 4th).

 

[Mt. Lynx]

In real life, if you "loaded" some poor sod going into a corner, the officals will deem it as delibrate unless you let the person you pushed off line back by on the following straight. If this doesn't happen then a typical penalty would be to dock you a certain amount of places depending on what the clerk of the course seems to be an appropiate amount (could be docked last).

One way they could interept this on GT5 would be go give you a time limit of say 10 seconds after nudging someone wide to let them back by or you'll get docked in positions to 1 place behind the other driver's original finishing position after the race has finished (e.g. you're 3rd and you push the 2nd place driver at the last turn just enough to let you sneak through on the inside and you don't let him back by before the end you get docked back to 4th).

I say drive-through-penalties instead. If you don´t let the car you nudged back by you, you get to drive through the pit lane, at pitlane speed. If the nudge is so severe, that the opponent car spins off track, you get a stop-and-go penalty, where you go into the pits, stay there for a designated time (10s, 30s) and then continue. If you hit someone so severly they can´t continue, you get disqualified.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I say drive-through-penalties instead. If you don´t let the car you nudged back by you, you get to drive through the pit lane, at pitlane speed. If the nudge is so severe, that the opponent car spins off track, you get a stop-and-go penalty, where you go into the pits, stay there for a designated time (10s, 30s) and then continue. If you hit someone so severly they can´t continue, you get disqualified.

Agreed. And if you don't obey (sp?) a "drive through" or "stop&go" penalty, you're disqualified also.I think that's the way, because penalties like the ones in GT4 (speed limiter for ... seconds) aren't possible (and are dangerous) in real life.

I'll rep you on that one, Team666

 

[Mark T]

I still think that there is a problem with damage though. We don't know the full details of how much damage will be inflicted upon the cars. If somebody crashed into the back of you and caused serious damage you might be able to regain your position but you would have to pit or see out the rest of the race with the damage you have. It's a tricky problem to solve.

 

[Hun200kmh]

As long as you can toggle damage on/off, it's your choice what kind of realism you want. We all know of drivers that lost races* just because someone else made a stupid move.

That's why online racing will, most probably, happen with damage turned off



*or championships, like Damon Hill.

 

[Mark T]

That's why online racing will, most probably, happen with damage turned off

Which is a real shame. I guess there will be private races for certain members (GTP etc) where they will have races maybe with a third party watching to look out for any unfair tactics. It'll be interesting to see how GT5 deals with the problem.

 

[opelgt1969]

The best way to do this is to make the car real slow when you get all 4 wheels off the road and 5 seconds for hitting too hard.

 

[JohnBM01]

When I think of rule enforcement, I'm thinking of ToCA Race Driver 3 and the Professional Mode where you have yellow flags, black flags (some of which are ticky-tack fouls against me when I raced), and stuff like that. My only problem with this rule enforcement deal is that I don't think you can seriously mess around the rules to the point of something like: "car must not weigh under xxxx kg/lbs." or anything like that. If anything, I think something along the lines of the (pardon me if I seem TOO professional here) Gran Turismo Federation reviewing dirty racing tactics by someone who knocked you off the road or picking up an avoidable contact penalty. I'm more along the lines of being casual. I'd be okay with yellow flags, warning flags, the blue flag, and especially the black flag. I just think there has to be a system that allows for great racing while following the rules.

Now on to the topic of car regulation. I can't comment too much on that since I don't think such a program would be rationalized in a game series like the Gran Turismo series. I've made a thread way back about the possibilities of taking cars from pure production to full-on race cars. I just can't think of a system in which there are stringent requirements on race cars competing in a series ranging from height, weight, internals, aerodynamics, engine specifications, and stuff like that. I'm sorry. I don't know how you can do that. If you wanted to get super-technical, we'd might as well get a CAD program to model out engines and such for Gran Turismo 5!

I'm undecided as a whole on rule regulations.

 

[Hapul]

I disagree - anyone who's played DTM/ToCa/V8supercar race driver 3 will know that flags = trouble if not properly done. It's a pain to have you good lap scratched for taking a bit too much kerb or being rammed by the AI (which will probably be a problem in GT5).

No, it's much better to have grass that slows you right up (even if it is unrealistically so) than let the computer decide whether you are breaking the rules. The snow on El Capitan, for example, shows how effective this is.