Renovo Coupe ...

I know the figures, and I don't care. If Renovo designed a good powertrain they should have gotten off their lazy *** and designed a body for it. NOT ruined a great American racecar. I bet it handles like crap with that power.

Powertrain engineering =/= body design. And:

It's the bajillionth Shelby kit car except this one has an electric motor.

Becase.Kit.Car.

Or, in this case, a continuation chassis. Which means it doesn't handle like a milk truck from the 60's.

And it also means they didn't cut up any precious historical milk trucks to make this car.

Meh. I'll believe it when I see it.
 
Right, your opinion MUST be superior because you have an open mind... and you definitely aren't appreciating my opinion right now.

Well, that's because when someone says it's not that bad you say...

Wrong, an American car with it's engine and soul removed is blasphemous. Electric cars are also incredibly dull; sure they can do burnouts, but who wants to hear just squealing tires without an engine note mixed in? I don't.

If I drove up next to a Shelby Daytona at a light, I would be very excited... but then disappointed to hear nothing at all when it starts driving. Wouldn't you rather hear a loud engine? That's mainly what makes electric cars uncool. The silence.

People aren't respecting your opinion because it seems like you're not respecting other people's opinions.

Anyway, regarding this car... I don't see anything wrong with it really. If you can't afford a legit Daytona, get the electric one that looks the part and allows you to tell people you care about the environment. ;)
 
Well, that's because when someone says it's not that bad you say...



People aren't respecting your opinion because it seems like you're not respecting other people's opinions.

Anyway, regarding this car... I don't see anything wrong with it really. If you can't afford a legit Daytona, get the electric one that looks the part and allows you to tell people you care about the environment. ;)

I don't respect it because it's ignorant bias trite, as if it's some crime against humanity to him due to them deciding to build it a different way. I've seen conservatives that make more sense.
 
Thanks for making this political, now we're certain to go off-topic.

So I'm ignorant, and you are open-minded? Do petty, overused liberal insults like that make you feel better? I'm tired of hearing them; do me a favor and think of something else.

If I'm ignorant of this car, so are you. We've both read about it online but neither of us have driven it.
 
Thanks for making this political, now we're certain to go off-topic.

So I'm ignorant, and you are open-minded? Do petty, overused liberal insults like that make you feel better? I'm tired of hearing them; do me a favor and think of something else.

If I'm ignorant of this car, so are you. We've both read about it online but neither of us have driven it.

What is with you and claiming things go off topic to save yourself from getting into a debate, you're the one that says this car is sacrilege. Everyone else seems to be saying that if that's the case then every kit car that isn't the original is in the same light. Your true issue is it isn't a V8 under the shell.

Also not sure how driving it makes us equally ignorant does it make you feel better to say this? Also if the comment was directed at me (I assume it was cause you tend to not quote me but comment after I've posted toward you) don't call me liberal or claim I'm making liberal quips. I'm not a liberal at all.
 
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Thanks for making this political, now we're certain to go off-topic.

So I'm ignorant, and you are open-minded? Do petty, overused liberal insults like that make you feel better? I'm tired of hearing them; do me a favor and think of something else.

If I'm ignorant of this car, so are you. We've both read about it online but neither of us have driven it.
The ignorance doesn't stem from the fact that you haven't driven the car, it comes from your blind hatred of the electric motor and unwillingness to accept that a sports car can still be exciting without a loud V8.
 
What is with you and claiming things go off topic to save yourself from getting into a debate, you're the one that says this car is sacrilege.

Wait, how is providing my opinion of the car in question off-topic? I only mentioned the thread going off-topic because you often accuse me of derailing threads. I'll debate anything you want, just don't say I'm to blame when we aren't talking about the Renovo anymore.

Also not sure how driving it makes us equally ignorant does it make you feel better to say this?

I'm not trying to "feel better", I'm trying to disprove your argument.

Also if the comment was directed at me (I assume it was cause you tend to not quote me but comment after I've posted toward you) don't call me liberal or claim I'm making liberal quips. I'm not a liberal at all.

You'll find taking random shots at conservatives will cause people to assume you're a liberal.

The ignorance doesn't stem from the fact that you haven't driven the car, it comes from your blind hatred of the electric motor and unwillingness to accept that a sports car can still be exciting without a loud V8.

And this is why I didn't want everyone to start whining about Americans and V8s. I don't hate electric cars in general, I just think they are a stupid idea. And believe it or not, I don't think a V8 is the best engine for a sports car; I think V8s are overrated and V10s, 12s, or even some V6s are better engines. My issue with the Renovo is that the Shelby Daytona reached racing success with a V8 powering it. American muscle cars are known for their V8s, so it seems very, very wrong to remove the V8 and replace it with something else, especially if it's a silent electric powertrain. Cars shouldn't be all about numbers and figures, how much torque or horsepower it has, there is something much more to cars. Taking the V8 out of a Shelby Daytona is taking the car's soul away. I know there are plenty of other kit Daytonas out there, but most of them have similar V8 engines to the one used in the real racecar.
 
Wait, how is providing my opinion of the car in question off-topic? I only mentioned the thread going off-topic because you often accuse me of derailing threads. I'll debate anything you want, just don't say I'm to blame when we aren't talking about the Renovo anymore.

Um no I don't show me where I've said this the only thread I said it on was the Ward one so that doesn't constitute often.

I'm not trying to "feel better", I'm trying to disprove your argument.

Well that's a horrible way of doing it, and basically trying to bring my character into this, if it was relevant like say I had a known history of be liberal and while always promoting electric vehicles on this thread that would make it relevant.

You'll find taking random shots at conservatives will cause people to assume you're a liberal.

I didn't take a shot I basically said even crazy right wing nuts make more sense then you do at times. If your default is to jump to thinking liberal because it saves you from actually arguing on an intellectual basis that's your issue.
 
I don't hate electric cars in general, I just think they are a stupid idea.
I fail to see how electric cars are a stupid idea. An automobile that won't be affected by rising gas prices sounds like a good deal to me, and as they become more popular and charging stations become more available, range is becoming less of an issue as time goes on.

My issue with the Renovo is that the Shelby Daytona reached racing success with a V8 powering it. American muscle cars are known for their V8s, so it seems very, very wrong to remove the V8 and replace it with something else, especially if it's a silent electric powertrain.
So what? The Miata originally came with an NA 4-cylinder engine, so is it sacrilege when one is given forced induction or is fitted with a V8? RX-7s come with rotary engines, so should we get our panties in a twist every time an LS swap is performed? At least the Renovo is more unique in that it isn't another Daytona with a 5.0 Mustang engine in it.

Cars shouldn't be all about numbers and figures, how much torque or horsepower it has, there is something much more to cars. Taking the V8 out of a Shelby Daytona is taking the car's soul away.
While I agree that there is much, much more to a car than how fast it laps the 'Ring or how quick it hits 60 MPH, the 'soul' of a car is more than just it's engine, it's what the car is as a whole. Whether or not you agree with me, I doubt a 500 HP car based off the Daytona can feel soulless, so even if you don't think it's the same as the original's soul, I'll bet it will have one of it's own anyway.

I know there are plenty of other kit Daytonas out there, but most of them have similar V8 engines to the one used in the real racecar.
How would you feel about one with a powerful V6 or V12? Would they be just as bad because they aren't V8s like the original or would they be better because they aren't electric?
 
Ooooh it's electric. :eek:

Yes please, make it happen, produce it, make it, etc... only if it is to inspire other "automobile makers" to create more normal looking electric cars. Problem is, I won't be able to buy this electric car. :(
 
I don't hate electric cars in general, I just think they are a stupid idea.
...Based upon knowing very little about them and being unwilling to step outside your knowledge comfort zone.
it seems very, very wrong to remove the V8 and replace it with something else, especially if it's a silent electric powertrain.
They haven't "removed" the V8. No original Daytona Coupes were harmed in the making of the Renovo. They've built an entirely new batch that happens to look like the original (because the original looks awesome) and put a different drivetrain in.
Cars shouldn't be all about numbers and figures, how much torque or horsepower it has, there is something much more to cars.
I-ron-eeeee!

You bleat on about there being "something much more to cars" yet refuse to accept that electric power IS "something more" in itself.

All you see (or hear, I suppose) is a lack of noise. What you don't see is that they have throttle response like nothing else on earth. Or that driving one is an entirely new and not unpleasant sensation - no different than any other "new" automotive sensation (the first time you drive a convertible, the first time you drive something AWD, the first time you ride a motorcycle). Or that you hear lots of car-noises that you don't normally hear as they're masked by an engine - putting you in tune with your vehicle in a completely different way.

The Renovo? I think it's great. I would actually be a little concerned if they'd hacked up originals to make it, but since they haven't, I really can't see the problem.

People moan and bitch that electric cars don't look good and then when someone makes one that does, people moan and bitch that it's "blasphemy" they've made it look like a car that everyone loves. In short: People will always moan and bitch about stuff they don't understand.
 
I didn't take a shot I basically said even crazy right wing nuts make more sense then you do at times.

I've seen conservatives that make more sense.

Really? All you said was conservatives, a very broad term, not right-wing nuts. Saying that you've seen conservatives that make more sense implies that conservatives usually do not make sense. Conservatives is what you said, not right-wing nuts, not Tea Party members, conservatives. And I didn't call you a liberal; I said you and others here used arguments that liberals use often.

@Turtle What LMS said about engine transfers.

...Based upon knowing very little about them and being unwilling to step outside your knowledge comfort zone.

They haven't "removed" the V8. No original Daytona Coupes were harmed in the making of the Renovo. They've built an entirely new batch that happens to look like the original (because the original looks awesome) and put a different drivetrain in.

I-ron-eeeee!

You bleat on about there being "something much more to cars" yet refuse to accept that electric power IS "something more" in itself.

All you see (or hear, I suppose) is a lack of noise. What you don't see is that they have throttle response like nothing else on earth. Or that driving one is an entirely new and not unpleasant sensation - no different than any other "new" automotive sensation (the first time you drive a convertible, the first time you drive something AWD, the first time you ride a motorcycle). Or that you hear lots of car-noises that you don't normally hear as they're masked by an engine - putting you in tune with your vehicle in a completely different way.

The Renovo? I think it's great. I would actually be a little concerned if they'd hacked up originals to make it, but since they haven't, I really can't see the problem.

People moan and bitch that electric cars don't look good and then when someone makes one that does, people moan and bitch that it's "blasphemy" they've made it look like a car that everyone loves. In short: People will always moan and bitch about stuff they don't understand.

This isn't about whether or not I understand anything. I fully understand electric cars; you aren't the first in this thread to lecture me on the torque. But as I said before, I don't care. Put an electric engine into a new body, like a Tesla, and I won't rant about it. Taking away the V8 that led the Shelby Daytona to racing success is simply wrong.

Lack of noise isn't the only issue I take with electric cars. Right now all they are are commuter vehicles; I can't take one on a road trip to the beach if I wanted to. Electrics are also more expensive than normal fuel-powered cars; I can't get a cheap electric for $1,000 if I wanted to. As many have stated here, the Renovo simply costs too much.
 
This isn't about whether or not I understand anything. I fully understand electric cars; you aren't the first in this thread to lecture me on the torque.
By referencing only torque as if that's the only thing anyone is going on about pretty much nullifies that first sentence...
But as I said before, I don't care. Put an electric engine into a new body, like a Tesla, and I won't rant about it. Taking away the V8 that led the Shelby Daytona to racing success is simply wrong.
...as does repeating once again that they "took away" the engine. They didn't. This is an entirely new chassis (one Shelby America itself builds and is clearly happy enough to sell to the company) with a new drivetrain. No original Daytonas are being pulled apart to make them. Nobody is stopping anyone else from making Daytona Coupes with V8s. It's an independent project with independent goals.

And frankly, if you think the Daytona legend is so weak that the presence of an electric version somehow erodes at that history or makes it less of a car, then you're demonstrating as much misunderstanding of automotive history as you are electric cars.
Lack of noise isn't the only issue I take with electric cars. Right now all they are are commuter vehicles; I can't take one on a road trip to the beach if I wanted to. Electrics are also more expensive than normal fuel-powered cars; I can't get a cheap electric for $1,000 if I wanted to. As many have stated here, the Renovo simply costs too much.
Mainstream electric vehicles have only been around in any number for the last five or six years. Moaning that you can't find a cheap used one yet is a bit like saying it sucks that you can't find the carcass of an F22 Raptor from a boneyard yet like you can a Vought Crusader, or that you can't find any 55" plasma TVs for $20 in your local pawn shop.

How many brand-new $25k gasoline cars are you buying right now, incidentally? And who are you to say it costs "too much" - in theory, $45 million is "too much" for the collection of metal and rubber that is a Ferrari 250GTO, but someone just paid that at Pebble Beach the other day. Something is worth what the market will pay for it. If they sell zero Renovos then it's too much. If they sell any, then it's clearly fine for that customer.

And yes, range is fairly short at the moment, but I don't see why that's an issue, certainly not for early owners. Very few people do 100+ miles in a day anyway (I suspect even you don't, aside from that hypothetical road trip to the beach that you also probably don't do) as proven by the 100k+ people worldwide who've already bought a Nissan Leaf or the half-billion electric-only miles people have collectively managed in Chevy Volts so far, despite those only doing 40-odd miles before the range-extender kicks in.

Do you know what's funny? A decade ago people had a massive list of reasons that electric cars couldn't work. Every so often, someone launches an electric car that ticks one thing or the other off a list. They're slow? Tesla Roadster. They're impractical? Nissan Leaf. They don't look good? Take your pick - Rimac Concept_One, the Renovo, the BMW i8, the Tesla Roadster (again), the Model S, the Audi R8 e-tron. They look too "weird"? VW's e-Golf is perfectly normal. Don't go far enough on a charge? Model S. Nowhere to charge them? Ignoring the fact that most owners charge at home (which are typically full of weird little outlets that electricity comes from) charging stations are popping up everywhere all the time. Too expensive? Several electric cars now cost little more than their gasoline counterparts in Europe and aren't far off in the States.

Each time one of those is struck off the list, people find new and even more tenuous things to criticise them for. Lack of noise, for example. Or people who bleat on and on about how great it is to have so much torque in large engines will suddenly say that "torque isn't everything".

Basically, what I'm getting to is this:
In short: People will always moan and bitch about stuff they don't understand.
 
I still don't care. A V8 belongs in the Shelby Daytona, as well as any car made to look like the Daytona. Despite the fact that electric cars are slowly getting better, they will never replace gasoline. We'll see who is right in 50 years.
 
Despite the fact that electric cars are slowly getting better, they will never replace gasoline. We'll see who is right in 50 years.
By which point there will be little or no petrol left.

How about the argument that electric cars are extending the life of the petrol engine?
 
I still don't care. A V8 belongs in the Shelby Daytona, as well as any car made to look like the Daytona. Despite the fact that electric cars are slowly getting better, they will never replace gasoline. We'll see who is right in 50 years.
Hey, I get to use this sentence again!
...Based upon knowing very little about them
50 years? Doubt we'll have to wait that long. EVs have gone from selling within a few decimal points of zero in 2008 or so, to selling around 40k units by 2011, to about 200,000 by 2013, to over half a million by May 2014. That's with maybe a dozen or so significant models on the worldwide market.

Still, people were right when they said hybrids would never get anywhere either. No wait, they were spectacularly wrong. Toyota alone sells over a million of those each year, and EVs are doing a lot better in their early years than the Prius ever did in its first few years.

And as for a V8 "belonging" in the Daytona, I'm guessing Shelby probably doesn't agree, since they build and sell the chassis directly to Renovo for its conversions. I figure if it's good enough for them it's good enough for me.
 
By which point there will be little or no petrol left.

How about the argument that electric cars are extending the life of the petrol engine?

More and more people driving EV's will drive down the demand for gasoline. That means it will be less profitable for gas companies, and gas prices will rise. Which will, in turn, make more people want to drive EV's... that's why I'd rather everyone drive gasoline cars, so I don't have to pay more at the pump.

In short, if the supply and demand of gasoline goes down, prices go up.
 
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More and more people driving EV's will drive down the demand for gasoline. That means it will be less profitable for gas companies, and gas prices will rise. Which will, in turn, make more people want to drive EV's... that's why I'd rather everyone drive gasoline cars, so I don't have to pay more at the pump.

In short, if the supply and demand of gasoline goes down, prices go up.
One day, when there isn't any petrol left, you'll be driving an EV, or you wont be driving. You just have to accept them.
 
It's the bajillionth Shelby kit car except this one has an electric motor. Better try to pass this off as a bespoke brand!

As far as the "honor" of the sacred fiberglass Shelby replica... People have put all kinds of stuff into Shelby replicas. There's no insult here, there's no blasphemy. This body is the white bread for this type of work. Get over it.

And dude can you stop giving all of us who like pushrod V8's a bad name? It's really tiring...

I'd just like to submit to the popular opinion around here that none of the "Murican Vee Ate" crowd actually own a decent American V8. Those of us who do are much more open-minded.

I really, really want to shake your hand one of these days.
 
More and more people driving EV's will drive down the demand for gasoline. That means it will be less profitable for gas companies, and gas prices will rise. Which will, in turn, make more people want to drive EV's... that's why I'd rather everyone drive gasoline cars, so I don't have to pay more at the pump.

In short, if the supply and demand of gasoline goes down, prices go up.

I'm sorry... I really didn't want to get involved in this argument... but do you actually know how gas prices work?

High demand never decreases prices. That's not how the supply-and-demand paradigm works.

Low demand decreases prices. You only need to look at the global recession of 2008-2009 to see that. Global oil prices fell through the floor for a brief period of time. Nobody had money, nobody was buying.

But while we're still suffering from that recession, US WTI prices are hovering around the $90 mark. And Global Brent Oil is still around $100 range.

Five years ago (or thereabouts), analysts pegged WTI recovery price at $60. This is the price at which investors could recover the money they sink into the well.

About three years ago, it was at $80.

Today, WTI is at $95. And it's not because of high demand. US energy demand is still depressed from the recession. (if you want to look at demand driven prices, look at Brent... $105... and all because people want more oil!) No, $95 is what you need to charge to ensure you make a profit from each increasingly short-lived well before it goes bust.

Even in markets where people have a hard time affording gas, oil prices have stayed maddeningly stable. This is because supply-side economics rules over all. Gas won't get any cheaper if more people buy gas. It also won't get much cheaper if fewer people buy gas (gas stations will simply close up shop and supply will shrink to meet demand). This is because we've exhausted all the incredibly cheap-to-find Middle Eastern oil, and are now dependent on more energy-intensive shale-oil wells and increasingly difficult deep sea exploration.

People have been debating "peak oil" for decades. Congratulations. You're living through it. :D

-----

TL,DR: You have supply-and-demand mixed up. And oil prices will stay high no matter what. Peak Oil. Bummer
 
It's already been stated, but I'll say it again. This car is built with a CSX chassis. This car uses the real deal Shelby chassis. That alone makes it cool. Don't forget that Shelby himself also toyed with front wheel drive economy cars in the 80s (when a FWD was still blasphemy to most Americans), so if he was alive today, he very well might have been toying with EVs today.

I think that this car gets flak is due to its electric motor. But if this car can hit the numbers that Renovo is advertising, I think that several critics will be silenced. This car should be fast, and "Fast is cool". (@Cano might recognize that quoted part of the last sentence.)
 
I'm sorry... I really didn't want to get involved in this argument... but do you actually know how gas prices work?

High demand never decreases prices. That's not how the supply-and-demand paradigm works.

Low demand decreases prices. You only need to look at the global recession of 2008-2009 to see that. Global oil prices fell through the floor for a brief period of time. Nobody had money, nobody was buying.

But while we're still suffering from that recession, US WTI prices are hovering around the $90 mark. And Global Brent Oil is still around $100 range.

Five years ago (or thereabouts), analysts pegged WTI recovery price at $60. This is the price at which investors could recover the money they sink into the well.

About three years ago, it was at $80.

Today, WTI is at $95. And it's not because of high demand. US energy demand is still depressed from the recession. (if you want to look at demand driven prices, look at Brent... $105... and all because people want more oil!) No, $95 is what you need to charge to ensure you make a profit from each increasingly short-lived well before it goes bust.

Even in markets where people have a hard time affording gas, oil prices have stayed maddeningly stable. This is because supply-side economics rules over all. Gas won't get any cheaper if more people buy gas. It also won't get much cheaper if fewer people buy gas (gas stations will simply close up shop and supply will shrink to meet demand). This is because we've exhausted all the incredibly cheap-to-find Middle Eastern oil, and are now dependent on more energy-intensive shale-oil wells and increasingly difficult deep sea exploration.

People have been debating "peak oil" for decades. Congratulations. You're living through it. :D

-----

TL:DR: You have supply-and-demand mixed up. And oil prices will stay high no matter what. Peak Oil. Bummer.
I'm glad you said that, I was too lazy to type it :lol:.

The less people want something, the cheaper it will be, to try and sell it. Why do you think Manhunt for the Wii can be found for 5 bucks? :lol:
 
The less people want something, the cheaper it will be, to try and sell it. Why do you think Manhunt for the Wii can be found for 5 bucks? :lol:

Of course, that merely means the chances of them making another one thus become remote.

-

Now if people would stop watching BayFormer movies, to give the studio the impetus to find a better director... :D
 
I'm sorry... I really didn't want to get involved in this argument... but do you actually know how gas prices work?

High demand never decreases prices. That's not how the supply-and-demand paradigm works.

Low demand decreases prices. You only need to look at the global recession of 2008-2009 to see that. Global oil prices fell through the floor for a brief period of time. Nobody had money, nobody was buying.

But while we're still suffering from that recession, US WTI prices are hovering around the $90 mark. And Global Brent Oil is still around $100 range.

Five years ago (or thereabouts), analysts pegged WTI recovery price at $60. This is the price at which investors could recover the money they sink into the well.

About three years ago, it was at $80.

Today, WTI is at $95. And it's not because of high demand. US energy demand is still depressed from the recession. (if you want to look at demand driven prices, look at Brent... $105... and all because people want more oil!) No, $95 is what you need to charge to ensure you make a profit from each increasingly short-lived well before it goes bust.

Even in markets where people have a hard time affording gas, oil prices have stayed maddeningly stable. This is because supply-side economics rules over all. Gas won't get any cheaper if more people buy gas. It also won't get much cheaper if fewer people buy gas (gas stations will simply close up shop and supply will shrink to meet demand). This is because we've exhausted all the incredibly cheap-to-find Middle Eastern oil, and are now dependent on more energy-intensive shale-oil wells and increasingly difficult deep sea exploration.

People have been debating "peak oil" for decades. Congratulations. You're living through it. :D

-----

TL,DR: You have supply-and-demand mixed up. And oil prices will stay high no matter what. Peak Oil. Bummer

Yeah, that does make sense.
 
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