Rewind feature in PCARS

[LogiForce]

Here's another tip for those who wish to learn proper driving technique.

Btw... Ben Collins (the Stig) was a puppil of Jackie Stewart.

 

[bleeder]

No. It is a ridiculous crutch that stifles driving skill and never encourages improvement. Oh, and Driveclub doesn't have a rewind feature, I don't see people complaining about that.

i agree, but there's so much rubber-banding in Driveclub it doesn't matter if you crash out because you know the pack will never get too far away, so their game design means you don't need a rewind button.

 

[LogiForce]

i agree, but there's so much rubber-banding in Driveclub it doesn't matter if you crash out because you know the pack will never get too far away, so their game design means you don't need a rewind button.

...and our game design means you need to build up skill.

Also if I might add. In my opinion modern day gamers do not know anymore how much frustration adds to gameplay. Back in the day we used to play platform games like Super Mario, Sonic or Megaman and would be frustrated as hell if we didn't get that one jump right. So frustrated to the point where we stuck with it while saying to ourselves "I will get that jump no matter what or how long it takes".

So have a bit of perseverance guys. The road to getting it right makes it all the more joyfull when you do get it right.

Or as Mika Hakkinen would say... you guys need a bit more "sisu".
If you want to know what that means klik this link or watch the video below (4:20 mark): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu

 

[PzR Slim]

...and our game design means you need to build up skill.

Also if I might add. In my opinion modern day gamers do not know anymore how much frustration adds to gameplay. Back in the day we used to play platform games like Super Mario, Sonic or Megaman and would be frustrated as hell if we didn't get that one jump right. So frustrated to the point where we stuck with it while saying to ourselves "I will get that jump no matter what or how long it takes".

I totally agree with this Logi, the harder something is to get right, the more satisfaction you get when it happens.

 

[HAL20XX]

No. It is a ridiculous crutch that stifles driving skill and never encourages improvement.

That's so incredibly untrue. I just posted how it's the primary reason I finally turned off assists. Maybe I'm an exception, but I am proof that there is some validity to having it.

The only credible stance I've seen against it is the one that SMS has given; it was a design choice that they felt (not knew) discouraged proper driving. Even they're willing to say that it's not a black and white issue.

 

[brooster]

It might have been less offensive in Forza if it was only available in test drive only or if Forza let you have 2 different game saves with one being the stupid rewind and the other NEVER allowing rewind.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

It might have been less offensive in Forza if it was only available in test drive only or if Forza let you have 2 different game saves with one being the stupid rewind and the other NEVER allowing rewind.

I would have liked it in Forza if it had been available in test drive mode as that is the one place I would have used it a lot, assuming it worked properly. Test drive is one of the better Forza features IMO. Being able to take your car out on the track and drive a few laps, pause, tweak, resume is a great tool for tuners and rewind would have added to that so I would have welcomed it there.

As for the way they did apply it I found that it was useful for one thing and I did use it a few times early on. Never in a race but in hot lap mode on Nurburgring. The way They would flag your lap and the next lap as dirty if you went off track in the last sector was a killer on the ring. Sometimes that last corner before the long final straight will bite you and kill the next lap so there rewind could save you a full lap so we're talking anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes depending on the car/driver. Even then I ended up turning it off completely and if I blew the corner I would just drive another lap.

 

[2clicks]

I just posted how it's the primary reason I finally turned off assists. Maybe I'm an exception, but I am proof that there is some validity to having it.

Assuming you are talking about Forza's unlimited rewind system, since you refer to assists, do you speak for those who exclusively play Forza? Because it might just be me, but I've never heard someone who plays Forza and GT, or GT only, and speaks in favour of the rewind system.

GRID is the only game that has pulled it off properly for me, by only allowing a set number of rewinds per difficulty per race. I wouldn't actually mind if SMS looks at it this way.

 

[HAL20XX]

Assuming you are talking about Forza's unlimited rewind system, since you refer to assists, do you speak for those who exclusively play Forza? Because it might just be me, but I've never heard someone who plays Forza and GT, or GT only, and speaks in favour of the rewind system.

GRID is the only game that has pulled it off properly for me, by only allowing a set number of rewinds per difficulty per race. I wouldn't actually mind if SMS looks at it this way.

By using rewind in Forza, I stopped using assists in all other racing games, including the GT series, iRacing, and SimBin. I'm sure there are people who abuse the rewind system, but their in-game experience has had no bearing on mine. Even within Forza's leaderboard system, if you use rewind, it drops you to a second tier of "dirty lap" racers. So even if their time was more than a minute quicker than mine, I would still rank above them because I raced a clean, non-rewound lap.

 

[martinezlj]

That's so incredibly untrue. I just posted how it's the primary reason I finally turned off assists. Maybe I'm an exception, but I am proof that there is some validity to having it.

I'm with you in this, when I played the original Forza and Forza 2, I used race line,ABS and traction control assists. Then Forza 3 came, and allowed me to race with all assists off, that way I learned to control the triggers and find the best racing line in a track. Without having to restart the same race over and over, that's what I liked the most. I remember I learned the best way to take the corkscrew in Laguna Seca with rewinds. It's a great way to learn specific parts in tracks while still progressing.

I'm a casual, and I give respect to those that don't need assists to drive, and those that dedicate countless hours on practice improving their skills and tuning. But I don't have time for that, I like to go home after work, sit on my couch and play against a competitive AI for a couple of hours before going to bed.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Well as far as not using assists in FM3 that is not really a big deal. Most cars were AWD so no TC needed. ABS did not work so no reason to use it and driving line well if you know the track you don't need it. So no biggie there and then there is the manual clutch which could be mapped to a button and allow you to shift gears at full throttle making you faster than those who did it properly means that actually was an assist rather than a lack of assist.

As for hot lapping, yes if you used rewind it flagged the lap and that added 10 minutes to the internal time for that lap. It was only useful in cases where you blew the last sector and that dirty flag would not only affect the current lap but the next one as well. Using rewind could back you up enough to avoid having the next lap flagged as dirty.

As for it being there being the reason anyone stopped using assists I am skeptical. More likely it was a desire to not use assists combined with the fact that FM3 was easier than most to drive without assists where as FM2 those high powered RWD cars that ruled the leaderboards were much much harder to drive than the AWD cars in FM3

 

[HAL20XX]

Most cars were AWD so no TC needed.

Really? Most? Not in the version of FM3 I and everyone else played.

ABS did not work so no reason to use it

I wouldn't know. I didn't use it because of said rewind and desire to learn to drive without assists.

and then there is the manual clutch which could be mapped to a button and allow you to shift gears at full throttle making you faster than those who did it properly means that actually was an assist rather than a lack of assist.

I wouldn't know. I never abused the system and used manual with clutch as intended.

As for hot lapping, yes if you used rewind it flagged the lap and that added 10 minutes to the internal time for that lap. It was only useful in cases where you blew the last sector and that dirty flag would not only affect the current lap but the next one as well. Using rewind could back you up enough to avoid having the next lap flagged as dirty.

That's the only time it was useful? Despite all of the other ways it was useful?

As for it being there being the reason anyone stopped using assists I am skeptical.

I AM the example. What's there to be skeptical about?

More likely it was a desire to not use assists combined with the fact that FM3 was easier than most to drive without assists where as FM2 those high powered RWD cars that ruled the leaderboards were much much harder to drive than the AWD cars in FM3

I was able to take what I learned in FM3 and apply to FM2 without any issue. I found it to be less challenging than FM3. I also became fairly proficient at driving high-powered RWD cars as I found most AWD cars to be a bit boring.

 

[martinezlj]

Most cars in FM3 were AWD ? I'm sorry but I respectfully disagree. Also, saying that driving without assists in FM3 was easier doesn't make sense to me, because even if in 3 we had less RWD cars, there were still RX7's, Supras, Ferraris, BMW, Mercedes, Porsches, McLaren, Zondas, Koeninsegg, and R class cars.

In the end my point is, the way I play my game, shouldn't affect you in any way, unless we are playing online. Which I highly doubt. If you want to be hardcore, be hardcore, I don't care. But don't force everyone play the way you want.

I completely understand if the devs didn't want to spend resources in this feature, and it's not a game killer for me neither. Just can't understand how some guys here want to everyone play their way.

 

[2clicks]

I'm sure there are people who abuse the rewind system, but their in-game experience has had no bearing on mine.

So then why the need to dismiss something completely subjective? I certainly have no knowledge of how you use the rewind system, but I don't say that you're wrong just because you have a differing opinion. My opinion is certainly not going to change anything, even if SMS do implement a feature that can easily be abused.

 

[HAL20XX]

So then why the need to dismiss something completely subjective? I certainly have no knowledge of how you use the rewind system, but I don't say that you're wrong just because you have a differing opinion. My opinion is certainly not going to change anything, even if SMS do implement a feature that can easily be abused.

I'm not dismissing anything. I'm providing examples of how rewind isn't this anti-Christ level of evil so many people are making it out to be. I'm in complete agreeance as to why SMS chose not to include it. Please note that I'm not petitioning SMS to add this. My point is, if they do add it, I couldn't care less.

 

[gtracedriver1]

It has nothing to do with skill. Using rewind is cheating as simple as that. I know it can be frustrating if something goes wrong in the last lap. But that is the way it goes sometimes. Also it takes the risk element as the player can play safe and rewind if the overtaking fails or whatever.

 

[HAL20XX]

It has nothing to do with skill. Using rewind is cheating as simple as that. I know it can be frustrating if something goes wrong in the last lap. But that is the way it goes sometimes. Also it takes the risk element as the player can play safe and rewind if the overtaking fails or whatever.

I don't think anyone here is saying using rewind is a "skill". It can be viewed as an assist to develop skills, albeit not in a realistic fashion some people prefer.

I don't disagree with you about it removing the risk and satisfaction of clean racing.

 

[martinezlj]

Using automatic transmisions, ABS, traction control, racing line, and restarts, can be considered cheating ?

This option will only allow this game to reach a larger audience.
+ sales = + budget for PCARS 2

 

[Biggles]

I don't think anyone here is saying using rewind is a "skill". It can be viewed as an assist to develop skills, albeit not in a realistic fashion some people prefer.

I believe what you say about your own experience. It strikes me as an unusual use of rewind - I would be surprised if most people used it in this way.

Including rewind because there are glitches in the game is a pretty poor excuse for including it - better to fix the game play itself.

This option will only allow this game to reach a larger audience.
+ sales = + budget for PCARS 2

I'm sure this is true ... on the other hand it may encourage the developer to further dumb down the game to appeal to a wider range of gamers. This would not be a positive thing for sim fans, regardless of how much extra cash it generated for the developer. It seems pretty clear from prior experience that the intention of the developer counts for more than the amount of cash available: just compare GT6 & Assetto Corsa to see how that works.

 

[Imari]

Using rewind is cheating as simple as that.

No, it isn't.

It's an assist that also has a strong affect on how players approach the game. There are valid reasons for designers choosing to include it or not, depending on how they want their game to play.

This bollocks that rewind is cheating, or that it has no possible positive applications needs to stop. It's a design choice.