RIAA: Copying Your Bought Digital Music For Yourself Is Stealing

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http://www.dailytech.com/RIAA+Eyes+Next+Possible+Targets+CD+Burners+Radio+Listeners/article9218.htm

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The RIAA's recent case and a pending case in the UK provide some insight into whom it might prosecute next

The Recording Industry Association of America is the oft villainized copyright-infringement watchdog for the music industry in the U.S. Its letters to music sharers have led to thousands of settlement over the last few years. Now, following its recent success in the jury civil trial Capitol Records, et al v. Jammie Thomas, which resulted in a jury verdict of $222,000 in damages, many wonder who the RIAA might target next.

The RIAA might have given a clue during testimony by music industry lawyers in the Thomas case. During the case Jennifer Pariser, the head of litigation for Sony BMG, was called to testify. Pariser noted that music labels make no money on bands touring, radio, or merchandise, so they are particularly vulnerable to file sharing. She went on to say that when people steal music the label is harmed.

Pariser believes in a very broad definition of stealing that is echoed by many supporters in the RIAA. She believes that users who buy songs are entitled to one, and only one copy. Burning CDs is just another name for stealing, in her mind. "When an individual makes a copy of a song for himself, I suppose we can say he stole a song." Making "a copy" of a purchased song is just "a nice way of saying 'steals just one copy'."

Such logic has been a driving force behind efforts to "rights manage" music including the current DRM found on Apple's iTunes files and Microsoft's DRM, which is also widespread.

While it seems unlikely that the RIAA would be able to effectively identify "burners", such litigation remains a legal possibility for the RIAA and major music labels, in the minds of their lawyers.

Another possible avenue of legal action for the RIAA is the pursuit of businesses that play unauthorized music in stores. The Performing Rights Society (PRS), Britain's version of the RIAA, may give the RIAA some possible ideas with its pending litigation. The PRS is suing the Kwik Fit Group, a car repair shop in Edinburgh, for £200,000 in damages. The case revolves around the complaint that Kwik Fit employees brought in personal radios which they played while working on cars, which could be heard by colleagues and customers. The PRS says this amounts to a public "performance" and should have entailed royalties.

The possible implications if this litigation succeeds are numerous. The RIAA could pursue retailers like Borders Books who play music in their restrooms or on their store floors. They could also seek action against small businesses that have radios in their stores.

These possible future targets may seem outlandish or farfetched, but the RIAA and its foreign equivalents have some heavy legal firepower. It hires many of the country's top lawyers and have gained millions in settlements and recently have added the $222,000 Thomas verdict to its coffers.

Some fear the RIAA is overstepping its bounds, including in the Thomas case. Rep. Rick Boucher, a Virginia Democrat, and strong advocate of fair use, recently went on record stating that the trial verdict was excessive and "way out of line" with other cases of this nature.

The Bush Administration feels that the case was very fair and was a positive example of our nation's laws at work.

"Cases such as this remind us strong enforcement is a significant part of the effort to eliminate piracy, and that we have an effective legal system in the U.S. that enables rights holders to protect their intellectual property."

With the RIAA's powerful legal, financial, and political backers nobody can truly say what it impossible for it to accomplish. Now as it is in the midst of delivering its eighth wave of infringement letters to colleges, it may soon be turning its attention to CD burners or businesses that play music in front of customers.

First, my thoughts on IP issues:

OK, I tend to support protecting IP. I understand the concept and I get the point. Sometimes I think the RIAA can go too far. The case mentioned above now has a single mother owing $222,000 for not making any money off of the product. If I were the RIAA I would be more upset about used CD sales, because money is exchanging hands, and not going to the industry. I think getting in a tizzy over someone sending their friend a song for free, while still hurting the industry ( I get that), is doing more to turn fans away completely than anything else. Combine that with the very few examples of actual good music coming out and I can completely understand why the music industry keeps losing sales. I think I may have bought a couple of CDs in the last five years, and I haven't gotten free digital industry copyrighted music in that time either. I just have no interest in most of the new stuff and I am less and less likely to support some of these scare tactics.


Now, to my main point:

Now making a copy of a song I bought, for my own use, is illegal? That is what she is saying she perceives it to be in the first part I bolded. So, do I need to pay for a song on my PC, a song on my iPod, a song on my PS3, and a song on a CD if I want that ability? Thank god my PS3 uses media sharing, although you could technically say that is copying to a cache.

Depending on how far they intend to take this it could mean that the nature of programs like iTunes is illegal because they download to the PC hard drive and then copy it to the player. Should I now go and delete all the back up copies on my hard drive? If I back them up on a data disc do I have to get rid of all those too? If my iPod quits reading properly I lose all those songs and that would be equivalent to my CD player breaking and taking out all my CDs with it. Then I guess I could sue Apple for damages to replace all my lost music?

I believe the RIAA lawyers are getting a bit too broad to the point that they are making it impossible to enjoy music in any form at all.

Then this current case in the UK (second part I bolded) is making matters even worse. If someone overhears a radio I listen to at my desk it is a public performance? I am not playing it for their enjoyment. What about guys with boom boxes in parks playing basketball or a guy driving along with his windows down? At what point does the industry say, "Hey guys, enjoy our entertainment product." I guess I should keep my headphones on me at all times because I would hate to pay a fine because someone can hear my music I didn't intend for them to hear.

My personal thought on all this with the way the industry is attacking the digital music to the point of making it nearly unusable is that they realize it can make their jobs unnecessary. Like I said, I haven't gotten any industry copyrighted digital music in years, but I have found a number of independent bands via podcasts and whatnot that put their songs out there themselves, not giving the record companies 99% of their sales. These bands are really good, and I suspect part of it is because they can make their money from sales and don't have to tour for 18 months to make money. Instead they spend time making music at home. Or they are putting their music out for free because they love the music and are happy working a normal job and doing small local concerts on the side.

I knew some guys in college who made their first album themselves and have grown in popularity regionally. They offer their songs for free streaming listening on their Web site and you can get the rest by buying CDs, they paid to have made by renting studio time and paying for the discs up front, at their concerts. Now they use a small local studio to run their affairs, but they made their own way to start.

If the idea of unsigned artists doing their own thing online spreads the industry will be hurt. Making online an annoyance to listeners slows this progression. I have seen this big corporation attempt to stop independents happen in the podcast-only-novel community. One author nearly got his print version shut down on Amazon when a publisher called them and a mainstream author accused online authors of being like scabs in a union.

That went on a slight tangent, but my point is that I see this as the industry trying to hold a claim to IP by preventing the actual creative mind from being able to keep the rights to their own IP, and having seen it happen in other places I think I may be on to something. The RIAA is so determined that at this point they are trying to make it so you can't use speakers unless you are alone in a soundproof room.


I don't want to steal music, but I do want to enjoy it without carrying around a book of CDs and headphones.
 
Bah, it's a big quagmire that I don't want to get involved in so I keep it simple and buy albums and then burn them onto my 360 or PC so I can listen to them easier, or get singles I want off the internet. Am I reading right and this article is saying this (as in the ripping of my CD's) is now illegal?!

EDIT: Oh I see, it's burning legally bought digital music.... Well I do that too since I don't have an ipod so I guess I'm done either way.
 
And this kids is why I hate the RIAA.

They want to control everything, and anything. Fair Use comes to mind for making copies of stuff you have already purchased for your own use. I imagine many of these lawsuits can be shot down, just at the expense of the defendant.

And people wonder why I hate DRM, iTunes, and the likes so much. You don't really own the music, you just kinda lease it.
 
Bah, it's a big quagmire that I don't want to get involved in so I keep it simple and buy albums and then burn them onto my 360 or PC so I can listen to them easier, or get singles I want off the internet. Am I reading right and this article is saying this (as in the ripping of my CD's) is now illegal?!

EDIT: Oh I see, it's burning legally bought digital music.... Well I do that too since I don't have an ipod so I guess I'm done either way.
Well, ripping your CD to an MP3 is apparently illegal too. President Bush had a minor issue when he said he had the Beatles on his iPod and critics attacked saying that you can't purchase the Beatls on iTunes, which meant he had to rip his CDs, thus he broke the law.

It was a one day event, but I remembered thinking that if that was true then we were all screwed.
 
Oh snap, I removed the DRM from my legally purchased Dixie Chicks songs by copying them to a CD... and then copying them back to iTunes. I broke the law twice. I just wanted to listen to them while playing Forza, I guess I'm a criminal now!


...:rolleyes:

The RIAA can screw off for all I care.
 
The following is quoted from a CD.

Unauthorised copying, hiring, lending, public performance and broadcasting of this recording prohibited!

Putting a song on an ipod/mps player etc is unauthorised copying. Playing a CD that others can hear is a public performance. If the record company agrees that you can copy it onto your own mp3 player, for your own use, then the RIAA/PRS cannot do anything. The RIAA/PRS are upholding the copyright law which has been decided by the record company.

Not saying they are right or wrong. Just pointing out another side of the argument.
 
I don't think they really get that they are pushing more and more people AWAY from copy righted music. I have no issues supporting artists, I use to be big in the local music scene here in the Spokane area. But they don't want to support artists, they just want to line their own pockets. And thats what they just came out and said up there, no more defense of protecting the artists.

daan
The following is quoted from a CD.

CD
Unauthorised copying, hiring, lending, public performance and broadcasting of this recording prohibited!

Putting a song on an ipod/mps player etc is unauthorised copying. Playing a CD that others can hear is a public performance. If the record company agrees that you can copy it onto your own mp3 player, for your own use, then the RIAA/PRS cannot do anything. The RIAA/PRS are upholding the copyright law which has been decided by the record company.

Not saying they are right or wrong. Just pointing out another side of the argument.

Those are in reference to for profit actions. Under fair use, if you are the only one using copy righted material, they typically don't give a crap about copying. Its legal to make back up copies of stuff you own, etc. Last I looked at Fair Use anyhow. It use to just be about you copying to sell, or harming them in a business fashion. Same with public performance, meaning a large group (not 3 people at work) and a paid event of sorts.

They are just going way too far now...
 
The following is quoted from a CD.



Putting a song on an ipod/mps player etc is unauthorised copying. Playing a CD that others can hear is a public performance. If the record company agrees that you can copy it onto your own mp3 player, for your own use, then the RIAA/PRS cannot do anything. The RIAA/PRS are upholding the copyright law which has been decided by the record company.

Not saying they are right or wrong. Just pointing out another side of the argument.

So, to the letter of the law, I can only use my albums to listen to the music contained on the album, any other use of the music without coming from the original CD is illegal? Jeez.

Foolkiller
Well, ripping your CD to an MP3 is apparently illegal too. President Bush had a minor issue when he said he had the Beatles on his iPod and critics attacked saying that you can't purchase the Beatls on iTunes, which meant he had to rip his CDs, thus he broke the law.

The lengths people will go to....:scared:
 
The case revolves around the complaint that Kwik Fit employees brought in personal radios which they played while working on cars, which could be heard by colleagues and customers. The PRS says this amounts to a public "performance" and should have entailed royalties.

Excellent - so I trust the RIAA will be on the tails of those zeebs who drive around with their stereo turned up so loud they can be heard in frelling Krakow, as it amounts to a "public performance"?


What's that? No, you say?
 
No no, that's a public service, what rush hour drive wouldn't be complete with one behind you massaging your back with the bass?
 
Excellent - so I trust the RIAA will be on the tails of those zeebs who drive around with their stereo turned up so loud they can be heard in frelling Krakow, as it amounts to a "public performance"?


What's that? No, you say?
Apparently the recording industry only goes after the people trying to enjoy their music in peace. They assume that any annoying jagoffs must be related somehow and leave them alone. Soft targets like single mothers and car mechanics are fair game though.
 
So can the RIAA sue radio stations, then? They have "public performances" every day.

Can they sue cover bands?

Really, this is so ridiculous. Is Lars crying on his drum kit again? :rolleyes:
 
So can the RIAA sue radio stations, then? They have "public performances" every day.
Radio stations pay a small fee for every song they play, so that every time it airs the artists get a few pennies.

Can they sue cover bands?
I don't know how the cover bands actually work since artists tend to support them. It may actually fall under the rules for parody and sampling, in that it isn't the complete original song, because Joe Wannabe sounds nothing like Steven Tyler.

Really, this is so ridiculous. Is Lars crying on his drum kit again? :rolleyes:
Don't even get me started on the artists that support this crap and try to guilt trip their fans by saying they are losing money. Any honest artist will tell you that they barely see a dime from record sales.
 
The RIAA is clinging desperately to an outdated medium. Putting your music on your computer is "stealing" according to this.

Really, we're just witnessing the dying gasps of the industry as we know it here.
 
Really, we're just witnessing the dying gasps of the industry as we know it here.

[/thread]

What can you do when the market no longer favors your product and you don't want to offer what the market does want? Run to the government.
 
[/thread]

What can you do when the market no longer favors your product and you don't want to offer what the market does want? Run to the government.

In Soviet Russia, CD owns you!

I just hope some one with a brain and understanding of rights gets in the government (Ron Paul)
 
Excellent - so I trust the RIAA will be on the tails of those zeebs who drive around with their stereo turned up so loud they can be heard in frelling Krakow, as it amounts to a "public performance"?


What's that? No, you say?

:lol::lol: does the RIAA have a headquarters? this makes me want to drive back and forth outside their place with my music all the way up
 
sayanything.jpg




I'm a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad man.
 
:lol::lol: does the RIAA have a headquarters? this makes me want to drive back and forth outside their place with my music all the way up

Ooh! Go for double trouble:

Plug a Cassette adapter into the Becker Tape deck, and run your MP3 player through the car! :dopey:


What can you do when the market no longer favors your product and you don't want to offer what the market does want? Run to the government.

Hey, it worked for Chrysler... Sort of.
 
How is that like Chrysler? They were losing money because the made crap, and they knew they made crap. They didn't have the money to make what the market wanted, its not that they didn't want to. They went to the government asking for loan money, saying they'd pay it off in like... 25 years or something. They paid it back in 3 or 4 years and returned to profitability. Chrysler is back in that hole now because the CEO after Iaccoca hit the panic button immediately looking for a partner, because profitability is a baaaaad thing in that idiots book, so Mercedes took all the money from Chrysler, killed Plymouth, which was going to be one of the coolest retro brands ever (PT Cruiser, Prowler, Pronto Spyder) and neutered the designers into nothing. Comparing Chrysler Corporation to RIAA is downright ridiculous. Totally different situations.
 
How is that like Chrysler? They were losing money because the made crap, and they knew they made crap. They didn't have the money to make what the market wanted, its not that they didn't want to. They went to the government asking for loan money, saying they'd pay it off in like... 25 years or something. They paid it back in 3 or 4 years and returned to profitability. Chrysler is back in that hole now because the CEO after Iaccoca hit the panic button immediately looking for a partner, because profitability is a baaaaad thing in that idiots book, so Mercedes took all the money from Chrysler, killed Plymouth, which was going to be one of the coolest retro brands ever (PT Cruiser, Prowler, Pronto Spyder) and neutered the designers into nothing. Comparing Chrysler Corporation to RIAA is downright ridiculous. Totally different situations.

your post has made this thread a much better place 👍



as for the becker, it is now a paperweight but I could hook my MP3 player (which contains files I ripped from my CDs!!!) to my CD player, I'll bet if I did that in front of RIAA's headquarters the building would implode because of the sheer number of greedy lawyers trying to get to the door at the same time
 
I can't believe how dumb the RIAA's tactics are. Ordering that Minnesota woman to pay a couple hundred thousand dollars to "send a message"?! (actual quote)
This woman is someone who falls into several demographically challenged categories; a single, American Indian mother of two. The only message they are sending is "we are a bunch of greedy a**holes making as much money as we can off of music we had nothing to do with in the first place."

As far as I'm concerned, the music industry needs a complete overhaul.
 
I think we should all compose our own music, parade infront of the RIAA, and demand royalties.

As, screw it. 🤬 the RIAA.

(Mocks the RIAA because I'm something akin to being immune in Canuckia).
 
[/thread]

What can you do when the market no longer favors your product and you don't want to offer what the market does want? Run to the government.

+2... the record industry is dead. And hopefully, all the overhyped no-talents that cling to it.
 
I wonder how club DJ's get around this. I'm sure the nightclub owners/DJ's do not purchase licenses and pay royalties for every song played.
 
I wonder how club DJ's get around this. I'm sure the nightclub owners/DJ's do not purchase licenses and pay royalties for every song played.

I think you will find that nightclubs in the UK do require a licence (which pays the royalties), not having one is a good way to end up in court....


BBC
A Norwich nightclub has been silenced and ordered to pay £1,300 court costs for playing music without a licence.
Phonographic Performance inspectors, who police music use in clubs and bars, visited AlleyKatz in Norwich and found it did not have the required licence.

On Friday Judge Mr Justice Blackburne banned proprietors Konnichi Ba Ltd, of Reepham in Norfolk, from playing music.

The club's owners did not appear in the High Court in London but must now correct the licence or remain silent.

Inspectors called at the club in June and heard a number of songs playing. After inquiries were made they discovered there was no licence in force at the club.

Mr Justice Blackburne ordered the company to pay £1,300 in legal costs and Konnichi Ba faces the prospect of a heavy fine if it disobeys the order before bringing its licence up to date.
Source - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/3747618.stm


...regards

Scaff
 
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