RIDOX Replica Garage-In Memory of TurnLeft-GT40,300ZX,F430,TVR,AEM S2000,Cizeta,TransAm Doug Nash

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danbojte
I've built the replica. I couldn't make use of the transmission because of the bug. Standard brakes used with 6/7 BB. The understeering is easily manageable.
I tried to win the Super Class Willow Springs 20-Mile Challenge at the replica's PP level, but it wasn't possible because of the high rate of tyre wear.
Anyway, I like the car.

:cheers:
Click to expand...
Yes. The car is much, much nicer to drive now that Ridox implemented those changes. I recommend using the 8-speed transmission. The car drives beautifully with that gearing. :cheers:
 
Oooh! Congratulations on your 100th page for the garage, Ridox! 👍 I was having one of my selfish moments a little while ago and during that time I had a thought... We've already had Lamborghini Week (more like Lamborghini Month! woohoo!!!) so it wouldn't be so bad if there were ever a Ferrari Week here in Ridox Replica Garage. :D :sly: :lol: I'm just thinking out loud.

Actually, what really made me think of that was how I just bought the Ferrari SP1 last night. I never bothered getting it because it was a one-off car. Boy was I a fool. In 100% Dealership Stock spec the car drove amazingly well on CS tires. I couldn't believe it. It just got me thinking how besides the F40 and 458 GT3 tunes, I don't really have any replica setups on those Ferraris of mine.
 
ALB123
Oooh! Congratulations on your 100th page for the garage, Ridox! 👍 I was having one of my selfish moments a little while ago and during that time I had a thought... We've already had Lamborghini Week (more like Lamborghini Month! woohoo!!!) so it wouldn't be so bad if there were ever a Ferrari Week here in Ridox Replica Garage. :D :sly: :lol: I'm just thinking out loud.

Actually, what really made me think of that was how I just bought the Ferrari SP1 last night. I never bothered getting it because it was a one-off car. Boy was I a fool. In 100% Dealership Stock spec the car drove amazingly well on CS tires. I couldn't believe it. It just got me thinking how besides the F40 and 458 GT3 tunes, I don't really have any replica setups on those Ferraris of mine.
Click to expand...

Thank you :) It's still surprise me to this day, that the garage will grow to 100 page and more than 100 cars made :D For Ferrari week, I'm thinking of adding more, probably 2 or 3 cars that I already have or cheap enough to buy :( I'm short on cash :lol: So far, I have published 512BB, Dino, F40, GTO ( Wangan ), 458 GT3, 599XX Evo, F430 Scud ... mm I do have F430 Scud GT3 made, but it was still in early stage, also have 365GTB and 458 road car in early build sitting the garage.

I have so many work either done or in progress, and I lost track of them, I separate them in another save file :( I will have to find time posting the finished ones. Likely within a day, I will post the Garage Limit Autozam and Eclipse Ridox Supra ( Touge Showdown ), the SRT Viper GTS /TA needs more damper work, although it can do 1:24s at Big Willow on CS.

So many cars to post :lol:

I tried the expert level Midifled race, used Cobra Daytona 15th Anniversary at 575PP, only managed 5th with 2J in the lead, about 5s slower per lap. Used stock gearbox, real life weight/distribution, supercharger+engine tuning and suspension + LSD. I don't really have time to find/buy a car and tune it to win.

These 2 have been under testing at Apricot Hill Race ( seasonal and arcade Pro ), both have almost complete 100% data ( including real car springs and alignment ) The Audi is TT-RS, build based on a request ( real car owner ), and it will also use Best Motoring lap during JDM vs EURO 300+PS Battle as reference. Keiichi Tsuchiya yelled under, under, understeer here many times at Tsukuba :lol:

The LFA will be a set of 2, LFA Base, and LFA Nurburgring Package, both will have Lexus Official Weight/Distribution and Test Weight/Distribution which differ than the claimed stats, the distribution is very peculiar as the engineer insisted on 48/52 in design but the reality is different. I have obtained detailed specs on suspension and LSD as well as gearbox and engine. It will use Car & Driver test and Auto Motor Und Sport SuperTest data. The LFA Nurburgring Package can do 1:24s at Big Willow, same as Viper TA and Z06 Z07 Vette.

Tsukuba Circuit_62.jpg


Nürburgring Nordschleife_4.jpg
 
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Thank you! I didn't know the game had been updated... :lol: Time to reboot GT6. I usually just leave it running, but with my game in my Garage so it doesn't have to play from the disc.
 
Here :

http://www.gran-turismo.com/us/news/00_1446455.html


i1AkoidMUvjMASH.jpg

Last Updated: Apr 14, 2015
Update Details (1.18)
GT6 Update Info
An update for Gran Turismo 6 has been released. The following is a list of the main features introduced:

Vision Gran Turismo
The "Volkswagen GTI Supersport Vision Gran Turismo" has been released.

After the update has been installed, the car can be purchased from the [Vision GT] option within the [CARS] section in "My Home". Alternatively, it is also possible to obtain the car by completing a lap (regardless of the lap time) in the new Seasonal Event, available only for a limited time.

GT Academy 2015
"GT Academy 2015" has been added to the "Special Events" section. Eligible countries, schedules and other details will follow in a separate notification.

Correction of Issues
We have fixed the issue found after the 1.17 update where the settings of the [Fully Customizable Transmission] were being reset to default after entering a race.

Other
-Improved the engine sounds for the Volkswagen GTI Roadster Vision Gran Turismo

- Adjusted the deployment timings of the air brake for the Alpine Vision Gran Turismo, Alpine Vision Gran Turismo Race Mode, and Chevrolet Chaparral 2X Vision Gran Turismo, when using the (DUALSHOCK®3) wireless controller. [/quote
Click to expand...
 
Pete05
Just checked the news page for information & nothing posted yet :(
Click to expand...
I just downloaded and installed the update. GT6 is just about to restart. Thank God they fixed the tranny bug. To be honest, if GT7 made us set transmissions the way v1.17 did, it wouldn't be the biggest deal in the world - at least not to me. However, there have been thousands of tunes carefully crafted that used the tranny flip to set the ratios and it was really upsetting to see so many tunes 'broken'. Of course, those of us here in Ridox Replica Garage knew that there was a way around the tranny glitch - and that was to just set the final gear first and then move Max Speed to a different speed setting (you'd have to figure it out through trial and error), but then you COULD get the exact ratios in the tune. Unfortunately, a lot of people didn't know that and a lot of people who did just didn't want to take the time to figure out the new Max Speed slider setting. Well, that's all behind us now... I hope! :lol:

@Pete05 I just happened to be peeking around in Motor City Hami's Garage and I saw you posting that you may be thinking of making the jump to Project Cars, PC based? Did I read that correctly? If you do, could you please let us know how you like the game? Ideally, I hope to end up a PC Sim player some day. It's clear that the power PC's possess allows for much more in their titles. Call it realism, accuracy or whatever...PC sim titles are "better" in many ways.

The one thing that will probably keep me in the Gran Turismo universe is the fact that I'm NOT a die hard racer. I can't even remember the last time I raced a group of real people. Going into random online rooms is hit or miss and I'm not sure I could commit to a GTP race league because of my health issues. So, I do a lot of solo driving and then Seasonal A-Spec racing while I hang out here in this garage. I don't think PC sims are really for those who just like to solo lap and play with replica builds... They're focused on racing and they do it very, very well. At least, that's been my impression of the few titles I've looked into.
 
The update is installed and running on my PS3. Unfortunately, their 'servers' are down for maintenance right now. So no online time logging and stuff.

EDIT: Actually...I can't even go into Seasonal Events. I forgot about that...I was thinking of when I'm disconnected from PSN, not when the servers are down. My mistake... I'll have to wait a little while longer to win this new Vision GT car that I'll never drive again. LOL

To be honest, the BMW Vision GT car isn't bad at all. Still, I never drive it.
 
ALB123
I just downloaded and installed the update. GT6 is just about to restart. Thank God they fixed the tranny bug. To be honest, if GT7 made us set transmissions the way v1.17 did, it wouldn't be the biggest deal in the world - at least not to me. However, there have been thousands of tunes carefully crafted that used the tranny flip to set the ratios and it was really upsetting to see so many tunes 'broken'. Of course, those of us here in Ridox Replica Garage knew that there was a way around the tranny glitch - and that was to just set the final gear first and then move Max Speed to a different speed setting (you'd have to figure it out through trial and error), but then you COULD get the exact ratios in the tune. Unfortunately, a lot of people didn't know that and a lot of people who did just didn't want to take the time to figure out the new Max Speed slider setting. Well, that's all behind us now... I hope! :lol:

@Pete05 I just happened to be peeking around in Motor City Hami's Garage and I saw you posting that you may be thinking of making the jump to Project Cars, PC based? Did I read that correctly? If you do, could you please let us know how you like the game? Ideally, I hope to end up a PC Sim player some day. It's clear that the power PC's possess allows for much more in their titles. Call it realism, accuracy or whatever...PC sim titles are "better" in many ways.

The one thing that will probably keep me in the Gran Turismo universe is the fact that I'm NOT a die hard racer. I can't even remember the last time I raced a group of real people. Going into random online rooms is hit or miss and I'm not sure I could commit to a GTP race league because of my health issues. So, I do a lot of solo driving and then Seasonal A-Spec racing while I hang out here in this garage. I don't think PC sims are really for those who just like to solo lap and play with replica builds... They're focused on racing and they do it very, very well. At least, that's been my impression of the few titles I've looked into.
Click to expand...

Pcars has only about 70cars ? In PC, not sure if there will be mods in Pcars like in Assetto Corsa. I only wished the GT car selection would be also in PC games, but looks like the sim racers more interested in racing cars with race event simulation. I have long for years a GT car selection in PC, imagine realistic physics on all of the cars that I like in GT, from JDM, Euro to US road cars. Doing Best Motoring races in PC would be epic :P Not just modern race cars or F1 cars.

If you and @Pete05 play AC or PCars with mods, you may still need to do some corrections on cars as I even doubt the official cars included will be accurate in setup/stats like springs, weight/distribution, alignment from factory, LSD lock, and gear ratio. There might be one of them wrong.

The Lexus LFA in GT6 is one nasty example, I thought PD relationship with Toyota would bring accurate data, apparently only the engine and gear ratio are correct :lol: Don't know why PD uses lowest Lexus marketing weight and distribution that will never happen on the actual car.
 
ALB123
I just downloaded and installed the update. GT6 is just about to restart. Thank God they fixed the tranny bug. To be honest, if GT7 made us set transmissions the way v1.17 did, it wouldn't be the biggest deal in the world - at least not to me. However, there have been thousands of tunes carefully crafted that used the tranny flip to set the ratios and it was really upsetting to see so many tunes 'broken'. Of course, those of us here in Ridox Replica Garage knew that there was a way around the tranny glitch - and that was to just set the final gear first and then move Max Speed to a different speed setting (you'd have to figure it out through trial and error), but then you COULD get the exact ratios in the tune. Unfortunately, a lot of people didn't know that and a lot of people who did just didn't want to take the time to figure out the new Max Speed slider setting. Well, that's all behind us now... I hope! :lol:

@Pete05 I just happened to be peeking around in Motor City Hami's Garage and I saw you posting that you may be thinking of making the jump to Project Cars, PC based? Did I read that correctly? If you do, could you please let us know how you like the game? Ideally, I hope to end up a PC Sim player some day. It's clear that the power PC's possess allows for much more in their titles. Call it realism, accuracy or whatever...PC sim titles are "better" in many ways.

The one thing that will probably keep me in the Gran Turismo universe is the fact that I'm NOT a die hard racer. I can't even remember the last time I raced a group of real people. Going into random online rooms is hit or miss and I'm not sure I could commit to a GTP race league because of my health issues. So, I do a lot of solo driving and then Seasonal A-Spec racing while I hang out here in this garage. I don't think PC sims are really for those who just like to solo lap and play with replica builds... They're focused on racing and they do it very, very well. At least, that's been my impression of the few titles I've looked into.
Click to expand...
Every race car I buy, I spend hours perfecting the individual gear ratios and then work out options for the final gear for each circuit. I have race settings for wet & dry with wing levels to suit. OCD I know but I've done this from GT1 days so reverting to using the max speed slider to suit the circuit I'm about to race on was like involuntarily going back to the drawing board & all those hours down the drain. To say I was unimpressed & a little grumpy about it goes without saying ( even though I just did). Thankfully that's been fixed with this update.

As far as my comment in Hami's garage about Project Cars on PC. I don't remember making it but if it's under my post then I must have. Things in the real world would have to change in a big way for me to make that step.
A. I don't have a PC.
B. I'm not connected to the web at home.
C. Project Cars would have to be a monumental upgrade over GT to justify the expense of the changeover such as suitable Steering wheel & pedals, and
D. I don't play online so the base version (A-spec if you like) would want to be phenomenally good.
 
I seriously doubt I will EVER become a PC Sim racer. Like I said, the things that I like most about driving these computerized cars is what GT6 excels at. Personally, I think PD has done a fantastic job representing automobile physics. Is GT6 perfect in that regard? Absolutely not!! But, the experience is so much better than true arcade games (so I've been told. I haven't played them myself). I honestly feel that PD is going to be able to accomplish so much more with the Playstation 4 - all that memory and additional processing power, both in the CPU and the GPU.

GT6 is my first fairly accurate driving game/sim. I have no allegiance toward PD. If Forza were ported to PS3 and I happened to enjoy it more than GT6 I would ditch GT6, most likely. The community here at GTP would be VERY tough to give up, however. 90% of my time on GTP is spent in this garage! :D

@Pete05 I just re-checked the Motor City Hami Garage thread and realized I made a mistake. Jonnypenso and MCH were discussing PCars and GT7 and you replied to a comment expressing your apprehension to blindly fork over $65 for GT7, which I assume is based on your displeasure with the way GT6 was released half-finished. So many people are in the same position...It's like, GT7 isn't just a new $60-$70 game I have to buy; It's a $60-$70 game plus a $400 Playstation 4 plus a $300-$400 steering wheel. I don't play ANY other video games. It's going to cost me between $800 to $900 to be able to play GT7. Now, if early reviews are mind-blowing, that should be a no brainer, considering how many hours of enjoyment I get out of GT6, but what if the actual release of GT7 is broken promises and missing features on par with the release of GT6? I would prefer to be a day one adapter. I don't want to miss all those bonus Seasonal Events like they had with the GT6 release around Christmas. But, I don't want to feel like a sucker either... :grumpy:

Anyway, I'm sorry I confused you in that thread Pete05. My bad... :dunce: :eek: :crazy:
 
Pete05
Every race car I buy, I spend hours perfecting the individual gear ratios and then work out options for the final gear for each circuit. I have race settings for wet & dry with wing levels to suit. OCD I know but I've done this from GT1 days so reverting to using the max speed slider to suit the circuit I'm about to race on was like involuntarily going back to the drawing board & all those hours down the drain. To say I was unimpressed & a little grumpy about it goes without saying ( even though I just did). Thankfully that's been fixed with this update.

As far as my comment in Hami's garage about Project Cars on PC. I don't remember making it but if it's under my post then I must have. Things in the real world would have to change in a big way for me to make that step.
A. I don't have a PC.
B. I'm not connected to the web at home.
C. Project Cars would have to be a monumental upgrade over GT to justify the expense of the changeover such as suitable Steering wheel & pedals, and
D. I don't play online so the base version (A-spec if you like) would want to be phenomenally good.
Click to expand...

I think your passion for setting up cars in GT6 is awesome!! I have lost and screwed up so many great setups over the last 15+ months of playing GT6 because I don't have a good system in place. Three tuning tabs is not enough, in my opinion. Each car should start with three and if you want to add more you should be able to. Up to 20, possibly. Nowadays, I'm driving mostly Ridox Replica builds, but I do enjoy many tunes from HaB-Racing, unfortunately @Highlandor hasn't been very active the last few months. Believe it or not, many of his earlier published tunes still work very well for me! :) I also have a few tunes from Exeter GT Tuning on some cars.

I really should have an Excel spreadsheet so I can refer to something very quickly if need be. With cars that I really love: Lamborghini Gallardo, BMW M3 '07, Ferrari F40 and the Lamborghini Diablo, for example, I have purchased multiple cars so I can facilitate the many setups that I wish to run from time to time. This is still not adequate management. I can't remember which Gallardo has the SP Engineering Superleggera build, let alone which Tab within that particular car's settings.

With a spreadsheet, I could at least easily see that my Yellow Gallardo has Tune A, Tune B and Tune C from Ridox while my Black Gallardo only has Tune A and Tune B from HaB Racing set, Tab C is empty/stock. It's just so much more work than I want to HAVE to do. Especially now that I'm at 320+ cars. If I had started this right away it wouldn't be quite so much work.

Do you use a notebook or a spreadsheet or something different to keep track of your tunes/builds? Or do you only use the three tabs?
 
ALB123
I seriously doubt I will EVER become a PC Sim racer. Like I said, the things that I like most about driving these computerized cars is what GT6 excels at. Personally, I think PD has done a fantastic job representing automobile physics. Is GT6 perfect in that regard? Absolutely not!! But, the experience is so much better than true arcade games (so I've been told. I haven't played them myself). I honestly feel that PD is going to be able to accomplish so much more with the Playstation 4 - all that memory and additional processing power, both in the CPU and the GPU.

GT6 is my first fairly accurate driving game/sim. I have no allegiance toward PD. If Forza were ported to PS3 and I happened to enjoy it more than GT6 I would ditch GT6, most likely. The community here at GTP would be VERY tough to give up, however. 90% of my time on GTP is spent in this garage! :D

@Pete05 I just re-checked the Motor City Hami Garage thread and realized I made a mistake. Jonnypenso and MCH were discussing PCars and GT7 and you replied to a comment expressing your apprehension to blindly fork over $65 for GT7, which I assume is based on your displeasure with the way GT6 was released half-finished. So many people are in the same position...It's like, GT7 isn't just a new $60-$70 game I have to buy; It's a $60-$70 game plus a $400 Playstation 4 plus a $300-$400 steering wheel. I don't play ANY other video games. It's going to cost me between $800 to $900 to be able to play GT7. Now, if early reviews are mind-blowing, that should be a no brainer, considering how many hours of enjoyment I get out of GT6, but what if the actual release of GT7 is broken promises and missing features on par with the release of GT6? I would prefer to be a day one adapter. I don't want to miss all those bonus Seasonal Events like they had with the GT6 release around Christmas. But, I don't want to feel like a sucker either... :grumpy:

Anyway, I'm sorry I confused you in that thread Pete05. My bad... :dunce: :eek: :crazy:
Click to expand...
Hey no drama mate 👍 I still stand by that comment referring to updating to GT7 though. I've been loyal to PD from day 1. Haven't missed a title. I never updated GT5 at all & was constantly hearing about when it was updated. A friend bought a PS3 & GT5 thanks to playing it at my place. When I played his for the first time, I thought I was playing another game altogether thanks to the different physics model. No standing starts on his game drove me crazy! I got GT6 on day 1 but wasn't able to update for over a month due to circumstances beyond my control. Then after 1.03 or 1.04, my source of updating disappeared. It's only a few weeks ago I managed to catch up to 1.17! If GT7 is a half-baked release like GT6 was, I'll be declining to take up the offer.

The more realism the better in my book. I haven't been interested in Arcade style games since my early teens and the days of the original Outrun down at the local bowling alley.
 
ALB123
I think your passion for setting up cars in GT6 is awesome!! I have lost and screwed up so many great setups over the last 15+ months of playing GT6 because I don't have a good system in place. Three tuning tabs is not enough, in my opinion. Each car should start with three and if you want to add more you should be able to. Up to 20, possibly. Nowadays, I'm driving mostly Ridox Replica builds, but I do enjoy many tunes from HaB-Racing, unfortunately @Highlandor hasn't been very active the last few months. Believe it or not, many of his earlier published tunes still work very well for me! :) I also have a few tunes from Exeter GT Tuning on some cars.

I really should have an Excel spreadsheet so I can refer to something very quickly if need be. With cars that I really love: Lamborghini Gallardo, BMW M3 '07, Ferrari F40 and the Lamborghini Diablo, for example, I have purchased multiple cars so I can facilitate the many setups that I wish to run from time to time. This is still not adequate management. I can't remember which Gallardo has the SP Engineering Superleggera build, let alone which Tab within that particular car's settings.

With a spreadsheet, I could at least easily see that my Yellow Gallardo has Tune A, Tune B and Tune C from Ridox while my Black Gallardo only has Tune A and Tune B from HaB Racing set, Tab C is empty/stock. It's just so much more work than I want to HAVE to do. Especially now that I'm at 320+ cars. If I had started this right away it wouldn't be quite so much work.

Do you use a notebook or a spreadsheet or something different to keep track of your tunes/builds? Or do you only use the three tabs?
Click to expand...
I use the old method of pen on paper my friend ;)
I keep tab A for default setup, tab B for my favorite tune with standard wing levels and tab C for a dedicated high downforce setup mainly for those rain soaked events such as LeMans & Nurburgring 24's.
If it's possible/livable to keep the standard transmission in road cars, I will. Sometimes the whine from the FC transmission drowns out the engine & me no like :irked:
The ability to manually adjust individual sound levels such as engine, transmission, wind noise, etc; would be fantastic and solve such an issue.
 
@Pete05 I see that you live in Australia. Internet access is a touchy subject with a lot of Australian's, isn't it? I used to chat with an Australian fellow daily several years back. He used to tell me horror stories about the lack of broadband in many areas and the ridiculous download limits they applied to many accounts. I'm sure things have gotten better in the last 4-5 years, but I would still imagine with such a large country (land wise) it isn't easy to get broadband to everybody. Plus, what do you do with all of that data that needs to get off Australian soil and into the reset of the internet? Your country is so freakin' far away from everybody!! Even massive fiber runs through the ocean can only move data so quickly. I'm sure Australia is a beautiful, beautiful country. But being secluded from the majority of the world's population has got to cause significant issues with internet availability and internet data transport.
 
ALB123
@Pete05 I see that you live in Australia. Internet access is a touchy subject with a lot of Australian's, isn't it? I used to chat with an Australian fellow daily several years back. He used to tell me horror stories about the lack of broadband in many areas and the ridiculous download limits they applied to many accounts. I'm sure things have gotten better in the last 4-5 years, but I would still imagine with such a large country (land wise) it isn't easy to get broadband to everybody. Plus, what do you do with all of that data that needs to get off Australian soil and into the reset of the internet? Your country is so freakin' far away from everybody!! Even massive fiber runs through the ocean can only move data so quickly. I'm sure Australia is a beautiful, beautiful country. But being secluded from the majority of the world's population has got to cause significant issues with internet availability and internet data transport.
Click to expand...
@ALB123 internet here in Australia is, to put it bluntly, laughable.
95% of the Country is still using our phone lines for access!
They're slowly rolling out a dedicated internet network but it'll be years before all of the Capital cities are properly covered, never mind the large expanses outside of those areas.
We have an industry that has many options as far as retailers of access to the web are concerned but there's a catch. All of the infrastructure, except for a part, is owned by our original supplier, Telstra (formerly Telecom Australia) and that is 'rented' to their competition.
Data prices and limits are another area where we are way behind comparable Western countries.
I've only tried once to get web access to where I live (Melbourne, second biggest city in the country) and that was a living nightmare! Therefore, I'm resigned to being offline except for having access to the 21st century thanks to my iPhone.
From what I've heard as far as playing online is concerned, the results of a beep test demonstrate enough of a data time-lag to make it only for the hardcore. I've also heard of more than a few rooms here on GTPlanet that prefer not to have people from so far away so as not to effect the quality of play.
 
danbojte
@Ridox2JZGTE I can't wait for the LFA. :)
Click to expand...

Will have to wait after the Autozam and Supra :)

danbojte
A-spec Intermediate Winners

PP as tuned, Tyres CS

View attachment 348599 View attachment 348600

I have access only to my phone ATM. :grumpy:
Click to expand...

No worries, you won and enjoyed the race, that's what matter most.

Pete05
@ALB123 internet here in Australia is, to put it bluntly, laughable.
95% of the Country is still using our phone lines for access!
They're slowly rolling out a dedicated internet network but it'll be years before all of the Capital cities are properly covered, never mind the large expanses outside of those areas.
We have an industry that has many options as far as retailers of access to the web are concerned but there's a catch. All of the infrastructure, except for a part, is owned by our original supplier, Telstra (formerly Telecom Australia) and that is 'rented' to their competition.
Data prices and limits are another area where we are way behind comparable Western countries.
I've only tried once to get web access to where I live (Melbourne, second biggest city in the country) and that was a living nightmare! Therefore, I'm resigned to being offline except for having access to the 21st century thanks to my iPhone.
From what I've heard as far as playing online is concerned, the results of a beep test demonstrate enough of a data time-lag to make it only for the hardcore. I've also heard of more than a few rooms here on GTPlanet that prefer not to have people from so far away so as not to effect the quality of play.
Click to expand...

Remembered DODO, it was nightmare back in early 2000.
 

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