Rotary for competition

[dkstz]

I'm sorry if this sounds stupid, but is possible to create a rotary engine for competitions???
ie: Mazda wants a go in F1 or WRC..
What are the pros and cons of such engine (if possible to create)?
Just curiosity...

Thanks!

 

[Jim Prower]

Ever heard of Formula Mazda? the 787B Group C? the RE-Amemiya RX7 GT300 car?

All of them rotary powered.

As for F1, the design must be a V-8. fixed bore/stroke (THe latter of which should be increased.) WRC rotaries wouldn't be durable enough. Much better to go with an inline four.

 

[Famine]

Mazda won Le Mans in 1991 with a rotary - the Mazda 787B.

The result was that rotary engines were so heavily restricted as to be non-competitive - effectively banning them from world-level motorsports.

 

[ND4SPD]

Don't forget to mention the RX-8's in the grand am cup in the ST class and the upcoming 3 rotor race versions to race in the GS class. Oh ya the Mazda Kudzu LMP2 in the ALMS thats also rotary powered. Infact its the same RENESIS in the RX-8.

 

[Dave A]

It depends on what competiotn you want to go in, if like Formula 1 the rules dictate the engine configuration you have to use then no, they currently dictate a V8 but have allowed one team to use an older V10 because of some agrement. For WRC or GT racing, sure you can use a rotary engine, but it depends in most cases on what engines are in your model range and/or what engine is fitted to the production version of the car being considered for entry, a BTCC car has to use an engine no bigger than 2 liters and it has to come from a car from that companies model range, if theres no roatry engine in the range, they can't use one. Mazda are currently the only company makiong road cars with rotary engines, however they did race the RX-7 in various motorsports and they do race the RX-8, they race rotary powered prtotypes in GT racing in the 80's and early 90's as well. And as ND4SPD said, they race the LMP2 class Kudzu which is a rotary powered car also.

 

[dkstz]

Thanks guys for the super fast replies!
Thats what I was curious about, types of races who has some rotaries. I saw some of them in GT4 and they sounded awesome!!

Another question.. are those engines reliable? Do they last long and they cost more than some other engine with different design (in the same race category)??

thank you

 

[MistaX]

Mazda won Le Mans in 1991 with a rotary - the Mazda 787B.

The result was that rotary engines were so heavily restricted as to be non-competitive - effectively banning them from world-level motorsports.

Actually rotaries were outright banned by the FIA in 1992. Not restricted.

B-K Motorsport ran a Courage C65 LMP2 in ALMS last year, and that had a 3 rotor.

That car.


Anyway on topic: Rotaries are reliable, until you blow boost into them. Then they toss apex seals.

 

[ND4SPD]

The only decently reliable rotary you could run into is an NA rotary. While they are still tempermental they will last longer than their forced induction counterparts. Although if you treat any rotary with care turbo or not they could last a decent life I beilieve that the NA 13b's in the FC3S's could last up to or more than250 000 miles while the turbo engine lasts around 150-200 000 miles, but for the FD3S's engine they've been known to only lat around 100-150 000 miles even less. I've also heard that replacing your apex seals with ceramic apex seals significantly increase the life of one. I've heard this once (by a race car driver driving a modified FD) and no where else, I want to know if there is a significant change or not.

 

[Famine]

Actually rotaries were outright banned by the FIA in 1992. Not restricted.

By the FIA, yes. But the FIA do not govern Le Mans, nor the ALMS.

 

[Kylehnat]

some of them in GT4 and they sounded awesome!!

Not only is the B-K Motorsport Courage one of the best-sounding cars on the ALMS grid, it is far and away the loudest 👍

It's also good eye candy:

 

[Boz Mon]

What about the Mazda Star Series? I thought they ran renesis engines

 

[Jay]

Another question.. are those engines reliable?

Back in group C days they proved to be very reliable, I was reading once that the Nissan's had a power advantage on them but wasn't as reliable as the Mazda rotarys during the race.

Road cars is a different story, but in the racing they did quite well.

 

[Wolfe]

Back in group C days they proved to be very reliable, I was reading once that the Nissan's had a power advantage on them but wasn't as reliable as the Mazda rotarys during the race.

Road cars is a different story, but in the racing they did quite well.

Actually, what you're seeing is the difference between a boosted and non-boosted rotary, as MistaX already established. The 787B was NA. The FD and a good portion of FC RX-7s were turbo.

...Do they last long and they cost more than some other engine with different design (in the same race category)??

Rotaries last about ~100,000 miles, or longer in the case of NA 13Bs, and then they need to be rebuilt. The one strange thing about rotaries, though, is that they'll run better, and better, and better, and better, and then pop, they're done.

Rotaries cost more than any comparable piston engine simply because there aren't as many of them. Almost all of the parts and the jigs required to make those parts are special, and parts/designs can't be carried over from a piston engine.

 

[Jay]

Actually, what you're seeing is the difference between a boosted and non-boosted rotary, as MistaX already established. The 787B was NA. The FD and a good portion of FC RX-7s were turbo.

I know the 787B was N/A and I was only refering to it, not the forced induction engines.

The one strange thing about rotaries, though, is that they'll run better, and better, and better, and better, and then pop, they're done.

Yeah my friends 12a that gave up ran great then it just lost power in a big way, great thing was is he was still able to drive it for a couple days to work, just had a lack of power. You blow a piston engine most likely you can't drive it long.

 

[Wolfe]

I know the 787B was N/A and I was only refering to it, not the forced induction engines.

I thought you were comparing the 787B to the road cars...

Road cars is a different story, but in the racing they did quite well.

 

[Jay]

I thought you were comparing the 787B to the road cars...

I just mean't that the Group C 787B was so reliable (even more so than lots of the piston engine Group C cars), but that doesn't mean road car rotaries are the same in N/A or boosted form. Infact most rotaries in Australia are not forced induction.