Roulette systems is a failure

[Nielsen]

Fact: something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information.

Suspicion: a belief or idea that something may be true

Tell me, before a court, can you really under oath say, that the intention of PD is to drive players into buying credits with real cash by a fact?

See: I am not saying anything against you, your idea of what PD wants to, or whether this is true or not.
But please stop making nonsense into facts. This is not Truth Social here.

I don’t know why you deny the workings of the game as proof when PD has publicly admitted it at one point.

 

[the Interceptor]

I believe the true issue with GT7's roulette system is that it visually suggests to be equal chances for each of the five prizes. It isn't. I think it would be more honest to show something like a wheel of fortune on which high prizes appear only one or twice and low prizes fill almost all slots, clarifying that the chance for getting a low prize is much higher.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I'll restate something I calculated in November last year... Note: these stats were calculated as at 300 marathons, I'm now at 370ish.

__

I've not been logging my Daily Marathon rewards, however, based on GT7 'My Page' and 'Milestones', I've logged in on 451 days, and completed the daily marathon 300 times.

Using the probabilities published at 1.27 for the ticket rewards on GT7info, and only looking at the 277 marathons completed whilst at Collector level 20 or higher (in other words ignoring most of the rewards for the first month), I've most likely accrued the following from the DM rewards...

12,749,000 Cr.
20 cars worth between 30,000 & 100,000 Cr.
10 cars worth between 120,000 & 450,000 Cr.
3 cars worth between 500,000 & 3,450,000 Cr.
25 standard tuning parts
17 'S' Parts
6 Engines
17 Invites.

... all as a reward for playing, which I was doing anyway. As someone that wants at least 2 of each (edit: Modifiable) car in the game the savings on car purchases were potentially >16m Cr., and as far as I can tell the most expensive car I won was the RB X2014 worth 3m Cr.

10,000 Cr. or less tickets would have come up 187 times from 300.

Notionally, on the 151 days I logged in, but didn't complete the daily marathon (most likely days when I was working on liveries only), the Cr. only total would be 20,448,000, and with 53 cars won a potential saving of 28m Cr.

__

Anybody that think this giveaway is designed to drive people towards MTX's rather than driving regular engagement needs to get their head checked.

 

[the Interceptor]

Anybody that think this giveaway is designed to drive people towards MTX's rather than driving regular engagement needs to get their head checked.

I'm not so sure about that. I personally do not think that the roulette system in GT7 is designed to specifically make players buy MTX, but the system can certainly be frustrating (see my previous post).

An example to the contrary: I played the free-to-play game 'Forge of Empires' for a good while. They give you a free 'Forge Point' (FP) for each hour, regardless if you actively play or not. These points are used in the game e.g. to develop new technologies and thus advance your empire. Obviously, modern technology is more complex to develop, so you will need more FP to advance the longer you play. By game design, the rate of 1 FP per hour remains constant. This means that the good progress you make at first very slowly, but surely, grinds to a halt. This system is meant to be frustrating. Yes, they give you FPs for free, so you can wait long enough in order to advance your society with the free FP you receive. But it eventually becomes so frustrating that avid players may be attracted to buy FP for real money.

Back to the point of GT7, getting your daily driving in only to receive a ticket which will show you substantial prizes but will almost always reward you with the smallest one can be frustrating, yes.

 

[Famine]

I'll restate something I calculated in November last year... Note: these stats were calculated as at 300 marathons, I'm now at 370ish.

__

I've not been logging my Daily Marathon rewards, however, based on GT7 'My Page' and 'Milestones', I've logged in on 451 days, and completed the daily marathon 300 times.

Using the probabilities published at 1.27 for the ticket rewards on GT7info, and only looking at the 277 marathons completed whilst at Collector level 20 or higher (in other words ignoring most of the rewards for the first month), I've most likely accrued the following from the DM rewards...

12,749,000 Cr.
20 cars worth between 30,000 & 100,000 Cr.
10 cars worth between 120,000 & 450,000 Cr.
3 cars worth between 500,000 & 3,450,000 Cr.
25 standard tuning parts
17 'S' Parts
6 Engines
17 Invites.

... all as a reward for playing, which I was doing anyway. As someone that wants at least 2 of each (edit: Modifiable) car in the game the savings on car purchases were potentially >16m Cr., and as far as I can tell the most expensive car I won was the RB X2014 worth 3m Cr.

10,000 Cr. or less tickets would have come up 187 times from 300.

Notionally, on the 151 days I logged in, but didn't complete the daily marathon (most likely days when I was working on liveries only), the Cr. only total would be 20,448,000, and with 53 cars won a potential saving of 28m Cr.

__

Anybody that think this giveaway is designed to drive people towards MTX's rather than driving regular engagement needs to get their head checked.

Just my 26 Daily Workout tickets from 1.43-1.44 only produced:

1.69m credits
2 parts
1 Special part
1 road car (annoyingly the Audi TT from 1.43 )
1 Gr.4 car (350,000cr saved or ~125,000cr at CVS)
1 Gr.2 car (850,000cr saved or ~250,000cr at CVS)
1 Gr.1 car (1,000,000cr saved or ~450,000cr at CVS)
1 Invite (Aston Martin)

That came from nine 3-star, 11 4-star, four 5-star, and two 6-star tickets.

In other words, just for playing I got 1.69m credits I wouldn't otherwise have, and somewhere between 2.2m of cars which I wouldn't have to spend 1.5 hours grinding for and cars worth another 825,000cr if I sold them. In fact the latter, sadly, as I had them all already.

That gives an average ticket value (from an average 3.96-star ticket) across the month of 96,731cr. Every day.

 

[watto79]

I'll restate something I calculated in November last year... Note: these stats were calculated as at 300 marathons, I'm now at 370ish.

__

I've not been logging my Daily Marathon rewards, however, based on GT7 'My Page' and 'Milestones', I've logged in on 451 days, and completed the daily marathon 300 times.

Using the probabilities published at 1.27 for the ticket rewards on GT7info, and only looking at the 277 marathons completed whilst at Collector level 20 or higher (in other words ignoring most of the rewards for the first month), I've most likely accrued the following from the DM rewards...

12,749,000 Cr.
20 cars worth between 30,000 & 100,000 Cr.
10 cars worth between 120,000 & 450,000 Cr.
3 cars worth between 500,000 & 3,450,000 Cr.
25 standard tuning parts
17 'S' Parts
6 Engines
17 Invites.

... all as a reward for playing, which I was doing anyway. As someone that wants at least 2 of each (edit: Modifiable) car in the game the savings on car purchases were potentially >16m Cr., and as far as I can tell the most expensive car I won was the RB X2014 worth 3m Cr.

10,000 Cr. or less tickets would have come up 187 times from 300.

Notionally, on the 151 days I logged in, but didn't complete the daily marathon (most likely days when I was working on liveries only), the Cr. only total would be 20,448,000, and with 53 cars won a potential saving of 28m Cr.

__

Anybody that think this giveaway is designed to drive people towards MTX's rather than driving regular engagement needs to get their head checked.

Thank you for stating what I've wanted to, but with actual data to back it up. The roulette wheel literally gives you free stuff for doing something you were going to do anyway.

The only problem I've ever had with the roulette system is having content locked behind it. They've rectified the special tuning parts and engine swaps, now just sort out the invitations and there's really nothing to complain about. Enjoy your free stuff.

1.69m credits

I read that as "Bullet point 1 - 69 million credits".

 

[Lomic]

That came from nine 3-star, 11 4-star, four 5-star, and two 6-star tickets.

Well that's a very impressive 26 DW tickets log, four 5-star and two 6-star ?

The stats for those are 5% and 3%, with 26 tickets, you should have had 1.3 five-star and 0.78 six-star, you clearly beat the odds there.

 

[MatskiMonk]

but the system can certainly be frustrating (see my previous post)

I do accept that it can be, I'd still rather have the free stuff than not. In any case, I'm still of the opinion that despite the frustration it's intended as a mechanism to promote engagement, rather than the use of MTX's. It's given me the equivalent of well over $200 worth of rewards.

But it eventually becomes so frustrating that avid players may be attracted to buy FP for real money.

In this example your progression through the game is grinding to a halt, that's simply not the case in GT. Yes, your car collecting progress may slow*, if collecting the most expensive cars is your goal, but it doesn't really impact any other aspect of the game.

*Given that at the start of the game one race at La Sarthe earns you enough to buy 34 cars in one go.


-


Yes, the invite system needs to be less RNG orientated (at least).
Yes, the roulette system could be better presented without even changing the odds.
No, the mechanism does not promote MTX's, it positively undermines them.

 

[S-car-Go]

To be fair I think the wheel is a good thing generally, concept of driving 26 miles isn't that daunting and any reward is just a bonus on your race/time trial income.
If they removed the invites and car parts from the wheel it would cause me less frustration.

 

[sonnyboychris]

I think the system would be better received if it wasn't a roulette visual. If they simply gave you a "gift" without frustrating you with the visual of better options/prices, people wouldn't be as upset.

Also... make the stupid thing skippable at the very least.

 

[feral and bad]

Said it before and will again, if people don't use it, they'll change it

I admittedly am not the smartest person. Completely ignoring your premise, which would assume that PD tracks lottery usage and actually cares about how people feel about it, can you please explain slowly, in small words, how exactly is a person not supposed to use the lottery system? It appears to me to be an integral part of the game, it is part of the daily workout system and it is part of the weekly challenge. You cannot complete the game without participating, as you need invitations in order to purchase certain cars. The only ways not to use it, as it appears to me, is to not attempt to collect rewards for activities or to not play the game. Thanks for your time.

 

[Meythia]

how exactly is a person not supposed to use the lottery system?

I simply ignore these tickets because I feel they are not worth the time.
There is no reason for me to have more credits than I do, as I dont want any car I dont have.
I was lucky enough to play during the invitations handout, so I could get them if I wanted.
And the parts fortunatly are now all freely available.

And in case I needed more credits, I would instead choose 25 minutes of Sardegna or 26 minutes of Tokyo for 1.5m instead of 1 minute of ticket for 100k (even if this would be worth more per time, its less fun per time).

 

[ZevZoq]

I don't have a problem with the roulette tickets per se. I have a problem with the fact that you essentially need to find about 400 million credits once you finish the 40 menus and other things in the game if you want to collect all (or really even just most) of the cars and that for many of us who require hours and hours to gold licenses and CEs the only option is to grind the same few races hundreds of times (or to spend several years doing daily workouts of course.)

No issue 😊

They could also save the result just before you get control back, and resetting would have no effect but it would be really random.

Or they could use something else than a fake roulette.

the roulette is just a (questionably) fun animation. The prize is still randomly determined. The die roll simply happens when you are given the ticket rather than when you watch the roulette wheel animation. Personally, I don't care when the die roll occurs. Random is random. However, I'm fully on board the idea that the prizes should be better. 5 and 10K rewards are pretty much a slap in the face rather than anything fun lol

 

[Mafio]

Thats the actual problem with the roulett. It's the showing of unwinnable big ticket items. Even after winning 5000 cr 100x with a 3 star ticket, if people see a car, they're going to feel like they got imaginarily ripped off. Its a twisted version of the possibility effect.

 

[feral and bad]

I simply ignore these tickets because I feel they are not worth the time.
There is no reason for me to have more credits than I do, as I dont want any car I dont have.
I was lucky enough to play during the invitations handout, so I could get them if I wanted.
And the parts fortunatly are now all freely available.

And in case I needed more credits, I would instead choose 25 minutes of Sardegna or 26 minutes of Tokyo for 1.5m instead of 1 minute of ticket for 100k (even if this would be worth more per time, its less fun per time).

I appreciate that your particular case (having been in a situation to participate in an invitation handout), enables you to not need the lottery.
I understand that the lottery sucks, I am not defending it. But how is anyone who wasn't as fortunate as you supposed to complete the game without it?
Thanks.

 

[sswishbone]

I admittedly am not the smartest person. Completely ignoring your premise, which would assume that PD tracks lottery usage and actually cares about how people feel about it, can you please explain slowly, in small words, how exactly is a person not supposed to use the lottery system? It appears to me to be an integral part of the game, it is part of the daily workout system and it is part of the weekly challenge. You cannot complete the game without participating, as you need invitations in order to purchase certain cars. The only ways not to use it, as it appears to me, is to not attempt to collect rewards for activities or to not play the game. Thanks for your time.

You see, you mistake 100% completion with completion. These invitation cars, as far as a platinum trophy goes, aren't a factor. There are extra menus if you want to include those. Though in terms of "completing the game" they are not required.

This form of gacha false engagement is why the player base has dropped off. Stop engaging, and you break the cycle.

 

[Chrizztiann__]

I won the SRT Tomahawk X VGT on my first roulette but since then I've been having horrible luck. consistently getting 2,000 credits even when there's 4-3 cars on the table. I feel like I'm getting trolled by the devs lol regardless I find the whole system and situation an absolute laugh.

 

[the Interceptor]

After reading this thread, I gave this ticket discussion some more thought, and I now believe that the problem lies entirely in how a reward is given.

I often find myself completing my daily mileage goal just for my satisfaction. Getting a roulette ticket for that is kind of a written reward. Then when I go claim the prize, it is a few thousand credits. It just feels like a letdown to me. My engagement has been "rewarded" with the cheapest of five possible options.

Now, let's reframe this. Say I run the same race to complete my daily mileage goal. Together with the race's reward, the game gives me a "bonus" of a few thousand credits for completing my daily goal. I would welcome this very much. For my engagement, I was given extra.

The financial result is exactly the same between these two scenarios. Putting this up as a roulette with seemingly equal chances for all five prizes is the issue for me. So yes, it is a thing of mind. I can just be thankful that I get free stuff and move on. But the way this bonus is framed in the game, I honestly find that hard to do. I don't mind the roulette system, but I'd prefer to dedicate tickets for the more exclusive stuff and give a daily reward in another way. As others have pointed out in this thread, being shown five prizes of widespread value and pretty much always receiving the lowest prize is not motivating, it is frustrating.

 

[feral and bad]

You see, you mistake 100% completion with completion. These invitation cars, as far as a platinum trophy goes, aren't a factor. There are extra menus if you want to include those. Though in terms of "completing the game" they are not required.

This form of gacha false engagement is why the player base has dropped off. Stop engaging, and you break the cycle.

Thanks for your time. I guess that I am not smart enough to recognize something that is less than 100% complete as being complete.

 

[nickf1gr]

I agree with you 100%!!!

 

[sswishbone]

Thanks for your time. I guess that I am not smart enough to recognize something that is less than 100% complete as being complete.

I'm a veteran of Final Fantasy VII where the sheer dispute over what counts as "completion" got way too convoluted. For me, if a game has 100% (in this case A PLATINUM) then achieving that counts.

Take GTA San Andrea's, many things in the game don't count to 100% completion. Would you argue someone hasn't achieved 100% when the game says they have?

 

[MatskiMonk]

Take GTA San Andrea's, many things in the game don't count to 100% completion. Would you argue someone hasn't achieved 100% when the game says they have?

I will never psychologically recover from San Andreas's photo opportunity collectables.

 

[sswishbone]

I will never psychologically recover from San Andreas's photo opportunity collectables.

The graffiti tagging was draining enough

 

[jrbabbitt]

I will never psychologically recover from San Andreas's photo opportunity collectables.

The graffiti tagging was draining enough

Don't forget those bloody oysters...

 

[sswishbone]

Don't forget those bloody oysters...

Why do I hear boss music?

 

[jrbabbitt]

Why do I hear boss music?

Oh OK, I will turn down my boom box. (Ghetto blaster is politically incorrect)

 

[feral and bad]

I'm a veteran of Final Fantasy VII where the sheer dispute over what counts as "completion" got way too convoluted. For me, if a game has 100% (in this case A PLATINUM) then achieving that counts.

Take GTA San Andrea's, many things in the game don't count to 100% completion. Would you argue someone hasn't achieved 100% when the game says they have?

I am completely unfamiliar with any of the GTA games. We apparently have different definitions of complete. To my mind, complete is when there is nothing left that hasn't been done, when you have learned all there is to learn from a given process (in this case game). To my mind, that is why most craftsman are always trying to refine their craft and be better at it. I also believe, that in the case of GT7, the game isn't finished when there is something that has not been accomplished. I am never going to finish GT7 because I cannot drift at anything above the bronze level, although I continue to go back and try again, with the hope that I have learned something at some level that will help me. In the end, we just have different opinions and standards. Thanks for your views.

 

[sswishbone]

I am completely unfamiliar with any of the GTA games. We apparently have different definitions of complete. To my mind, complete is when there is nothing left that hasn't been done, when you have learned all there is to learn from a given process (in this case game). To my mind, that is why most craftsman are always trying to refine their craft and be better at it. I also believe, that in the case of GT7, the game isn't finished when there is something that has not been accomplished. I am never going to finish GT7 because I cannot drift at anything above the bronze level, although I continue to go back and try again, with the hope that I have learned something at some level that will help me. In the end, we just have different opinions and standards. Thanks for your views.

In that case you can't consider GT7 "finished" at any time ever... as there is no way you've beaten every race in reverse gear

 

[jrbabbitt]

Also

In that case you can't consider GT7 "finished" at any time ever...

Especially when PD has been adding cars, races, menu items, and sometimes new tracks. It will never be "finished".

 

[generic00]

I am here to complain again about the horrible invitation system that is wrapped inside the roulette system.
What I cannot believe is how different the PS4 and PS5 versions work for roulette-invitation.
I play GT7 every day, once on PS4 and once on PS5, with different playstation ID on each machine.
The PS4 is somewhat better in that I get more invitations and constantly get them. I have all the cars in the PS4 and keep being offered repeat invitations for cars I already have. On the PS5 in over 1 year have not gotten any car invitations in Roulette, and so do not have all the cars. One possible improvement would be have a roulette wheel that contains all invitations, not mixed in with credits or parts. Imagine a wheel of invitations, at least you could get an invitation every so often. The disappoinment for me is such that I might not buy the next version of Gran Turismo. I wish PD cared enough to listen to our message board.