Ruf's and Tire Physics?
- Thread starter speedrcr
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Well, there have definitely been no small number of bugs in the GT series. I remember the LAN parties we used to have with GT4, and how everyone had to choose a non-modified car from the list of available cars (not our own garages) or else when we raced all our garage-cars would have the wrong tires. Crazy number of bugs in this series of games...
Anyway, I'll have to give this "wheel change" bug a test and see if it really does cause a difference in handling. Has anyone tried switching back to the default wheels after adding new ones? Did this resolve the problem?
Anyway, I'll have to give this "wheel change" bug a test and see if it really does cause a difference in handling. Has anyone tried switching back to the default wheels after adding new ones? Did this resolve the problem?
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- speedrcr
Yes it did, spent last night for an hour or so adjusting my setup with normal manufacture wheels. Low and behold "she's" back! Not saying my setups from GT5 work exactly, but with a few tweaks I was "almost" able to complete Nurburgring in under 7 minutes without a spin and wrecking in 505PP trim on Race Soft's. But I do miss my 8,000cr OZ Superleggra's.
I did on the flip-side notice some "speed" difference through the gears with 18" wheels opposed to the "19's". Very nominal, but acceleration increase was slightly noticeable with a few extra mph into sections where gearing wasn't changed and I was able to carry through turns faster. Could be just a fluke, but it was enough to make me go "hmm" on the 'Ring.
I did on the flip-side notice some "speed" difference through the gears with 18" wheels opposed to the "19's". Very nominal, but acceleration increase was slightly noticeable with a few extra mph into sections where gearing wasn't changed and I was able to carry through turns faster. Could be just a fluke, but it was enough to make me go "hmm" on the 'Ring.
The problem is that in a videogame you take those corners with a speed you wil never do in real live. Because you don't feel the g-force, etc
Example: on the nordschleife you have the fast corner schwedenkreuz and in the game i do easy 200+ or 210+ (depends on the car) with sport hard tires. You won't do that in real life unless youre very skilled or stupid. Gt5 was far more forgiving when you get off the gas halfway the corner. In Gt6 you can't do this anymore without consequenses just like real life.
Example: on the nordschleife you have the fast corner schwedenkreuz and in the game i do easy 200+ or 210+ (depends on the car) with sport hard tires. You won't do that in real life unless youre very skilled or stupid. Gt5 was far more forgiving when you get off the gas halfway the corner. In Gt6 you can't do this anymore without consequenses just like real life.
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- GTP_Stotty
Just to wrap up the rim discussion and let the thread develop along normal lines - if you haven't already seen it, my initial findings posted in this thread on Saturday were proven last night in the 'spin cars' thread in the main forum by a number of other fast and respected drivers.
Changing the wheels on a lot of MR and RR cars does ruin the handling.
Shame, and hopefully something PD can fix in a future patch.
Changing the wheels on a lot of MR and RR cars does ruin the handling.
Shame, and hopefully something PD can fix in a future patch.
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On my BTR, I raised the front spring rates to be higher than the rear spring rates. This seems have to helped the oversteer a bit. Softening the rear and tightening the front gives me more confidence to push the car into corners.
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- speedrcr
Noticed this last night, tightening up a BTR, I was playing around with 117f and 120r for height and softening up the spring rates, but tightening up the front. Seemed odd, but noticed that it was fairly stable. Goes against the ideas from before and normal real life tuning, why would you tighten up where the weight is almost non-existent? Goes against physics it seems, but it works!
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I decided to spend a little while today playing with my BTR (stock rims). I replicated as best as possible an actual 1980 911SC in terms of weight, weight distribution, and power. The weight distribution is reasonably close by default in GT6, and the weight of the BTR is only 20kg more than the 911SC, so probably we are pretty much ready to go there. So mostly what I did was drop the power down by 50% to best duplicate the power of the 911 (can't make it exact, the BTR ends up with less HP but more Torque in this scenario, but it's close enough for government work). I also put in the 5-speed close ratio gearbox (reasonably close to what's in the 911) and the customizable LSD (the 911 has no lsd). I set the LSD to 5/5/5 to make it activate as little as possible.
I ran some tests that way on N3 and S1 tires (approximately the grip level I'm used to IRL), and my response is mixed. Overall the car does display the handling characteristics it should: when I lift my foot the car begins to rotate, and if I squeeze the trigger back down she will (sometimes) settle and begin to gently understeer. But I've experienced a lot of problems also. The most prevalent is incredible and unpredictable levels of snap-back in the wheel. Crazy stuff that makes it almost impossible to actually allow the back to step-out as one should be able to do. I'm talking snap-back clear down at crazy speeds like 40mph. IRL I often let the back slide out gently all the way around sweepers while I counter steer to get the nose pointed just the right direction at a gate or slalom-entry and then squeeze that trigger back down and zoom zoom zoom I'm going the direction I wish. I've done this countless times IRL with ZERO snapback. Unless that issue can be cured there really isn't any hope for being able to enjoy driving these cars because I know what I can do in real-life and can't get anywhere near duplicating it in GT6 (I've noticed this snap-back in most other RR and MR cars as well, to various degrees). Another problem is wheel-spin. IRL it is almost impossible to get the 911 to break the rear wheels loose even in first gear, even in tight corners, as long as I'm on dry pavement. This is with no LSD at all. There is simply TONS and TONS of fantastic rear grip. The car feels incredibly planted and steady all the time, the only time it gets unruly is exactly when I wish it to (lift-off-oversteer). In GT6 I get occasional wheel-spin at times and gears which seem totally inappropriate (especially considering I'm running the car at 50% power, 181hp). Finally, the car will spin all the way around uncontrollably at speeds and angles which, IRL, I'm 100% comfortable. I believe this is happening because I'm getting rear-wheels spinning-up rather than digging-in and gripping. That, in turn, removes all rear lateral grip rather than increasing the lateral grip as it lightens up the front-end and transfers weight backwards (which is the behavior IRL for the most part). In general, the handling of the car in game is simply far less predictable than IRL.
I then played around lightening the car and adding ballast to exactly match the weight and 40/60 distribution. This made very little difference.
So, I guess at this point I would say that GT6 has some work to do on these RR cars. I think if they cured the snap-back problem that would go a long way, but they also have some issues with excessive wheel-spin and lack of weight transfer (possibly related).
I'll put the full racing suspension on at some point and play with it, but in the end I doubt there will be any real fix for this outside of PD changing some of the behaviors. I have little interest in fiddling and fiddling with a car just to try and make it drive like my real-world counterparts...
This probably bothers me a lot more with these cars since I have real-world experience with how they drive. With most other cars it doesn't bug me very much as I have little or no Motorsport experience with them.
Next I'll try replicating my '68 Beetle which I have modified (suspension) for autocross, and years ago upgraded from the anemic 1500 to a stock 1600 single port motor with a gut-wrenching pulse-pounding 46hp.
Edited: corrected several typos...
I ran some tests that way on N3 and S1 tires (approximately the grip level I'm used to IRL), and my response is mixed. Overall the car does display the handling characteristics it should: when I lift my foot the car begins to rotate, and if I squeeze the trigger back down she will (sometimes) settle and begin to gently understeer. But I've experienced a lot of problems also. The most prevalent is incredible and unpredictable levels of snap-back in the wheel. Crazy stuff that makes it almost impossible to actually allow the back to step-out as one should be able to do. I'm talking snap-back clear down at crazy speeds like 40mph. IRL I often let the back slide out gently all the way around sweepers while I counter steer to get the nose pointed just the right direction at a gate or slalom-entry and then squeeze that trigger back down and zoom zoom zoom I'm going the direction I wish. I've done this countless times IRL with ZERO snapback. Unless that issue can be cured there really isn't any hope for being able to enjoy driving these cars because I know what I can do in real-life and can't get anywhere near duplicating it in GT6 (I've noticed this snap-back in most other RR and MR cars as well, to various degrees). Another problem is wheel-spin. IRL it is almost impossible to get the 911 to break the rear wheels loose even in first gear, even in tight corners, as long as I'm on dry pavement. This is with no LSD at all. There is simply TONS and TONS of fantastic rear grip. The car feels incredibly planted and steady all the time, the only time it gets unruly is exactly when I wish it to (lift-off-oversteer). In GT6 I get occasional wheel-spin at times and gears which seem totally inappropriate (especially considering I'm running the car at 50% power, 181hp). Finally, the car will spin all the way around uncontrollably at speeds and angles which, IRL, I'm 100% comfortable. I believe this is happening because I'm getting rear-wheels spinning-up rather than digging-in and gripping. That, in turn, removes all rear lateral grip rather than increasing the lateral grip as it lightens up the front-end and transfers weight backwards (which is the behavior IRL for the most part). In general, the handling of the car in game is simply far less predictable than IRL.
I then played around lightening the car and adding ballast to exactly match the weight and 40/60 distribution. This made very little difference.
So, I guess at this point I would say that GT6 has some work to do on these RR cars. I think if they cured the snap-back problem that would go a long way, but they also have some issues with excessive wheel-spin and lack of weight transfer (possibly related).
I'll put the full racing suspension on at some point and play with it, but in the end I doubt there will be any real fix for this outside of PD changing some of the behaviors. I have little interest in fiddling and fiddling with a car just to try and make it drive like my real-world counterparts...
This probably bothers me a lot more with these cars since I have real-world experience with how they drive. With most other cars it doesn't bug me very much as I have little or no Motorsport experience with them.
Next I'll try replicating my '68 Beetle which I have modified (suspension) for autocross, and years ago upgraded from the anemic 1500 to a stock 1600 single port motor with a gut-wrenching pulse-pounding 46hp.
Edited: corrected several typos...
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I played around with the BTR more, both in stock RUF trim and my "stock Porsche 911" tune. I also built the '66 Beetle to pretty much exactly duplicate my '68 that I also use for autocross. In both cases I'm running very conservative tires (CM, CS, SH). I tried a few very quick suspension tuning measures also (lots of toe-in on the rears, for example) and while I can change the behavior of the cars, the one thing I can't do is reduce or eliminate the snap-back.
I then played with the Ferrari 512 and a few other cars with rearward weight bias. Basically I think 90% of the problem comes down to the snap-back. Because I *can't* counter-steer sufficiently without getting atrocious snap-back in the wheel, I can't actually drive them as I would. (IIRC we had a lot of problems with this behavior in GT5 online mode). It's a frustrating situation.
If anyone comes up with a fix for the snap-back I would love to hear about it...
I then played with the Ferrari 512 and a few other cars with rearward weight bias. Basically I think 90% of the problem comes down to the snap-back. Because I *can't* counter-steer sufficiently without getting atrocious snap-back in the wheel, I can't actually drive them as I would. (IIRC we had a lot of problems with this behavior in GT5 online mode). It's a frustrating situation.
If anyone comes up with a fix for the snap-back I would love to hear about it...
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- speedrcr
Just did, no change, still testing and tuning though.
I've been keeping an 1180kg car and adjusting from 450pp to 500pp. Was using stock wheels till I noticed little to no difference in tire width with a +1 wheel.
Figured might as wheel look good going sideways or in circles.
One thing I haven't used yet is the wing. I used it with some of my BTR's in GT5 as a tribute to Rauh Welt Begriff Porsche's. Eventhough it seems a bit "gaudy" been thinking of going back, thinking D Type.
On that note wish they had the RS wing available as an option.
You can see a portion of it that the Wing's are stacked on.
I've been keeping an 1180kg car and adjusting from 450pp to 500pp. Was using stock wheels till I noticed little to no difference in tire width with a +1 wheel.
Figured might as wheel look good going sideways or in circles.
One thing I haven't used yet is the wing. I used it with some of my BTR's in GT5 as a tribute to Rauh Welt Begriff Porsche's. Eventhough it seems a bit "gaudy" been thinking of going back, thinking D Type.
On that note wish they had the RS wing available as an option.
You can see a portion of it that the Wing's are stacked on.
I loved the car on GT5, which I stopped playing 2 years ago. I then bought myself the yellowbird yesterday then after a few laps I feel comfortable with the car again, it does take allot of getting use to but is well worth the effort.
The car is completely stock settings apart from I changed the alloy wheels on it.
All driving aids are off apart from ABS at 1. I used a logitech G25.
Below is my video of it on the Nurburgring the main thing to do is to be very careful on the accelerator and the brake, just tiny little taps and get in line for the corners as soon as possible and avoid the curbs whilst turning.
To catch the car when it is going out of control I use both the accelerator and the brake at the same time which enables you to slow down a bit but still control the car.
I have put on instrument dials on the video to show this, a good part which demonstrates this is at the end of the main straight where you need to break hard but keep the car under control.
The car is completely stock settings apart from I changed the alloy wheels on it.
All driving aids are off apart from ABS at 1. I used a logitech G25.
Below is my video of it on the Nurburgring the main thing to do is to be very careful on the accelerator and the brake, just tiny little taps and get in line for the corners as soon as possible and avoid the curbs whilst turning.
To catch the car when it is going out of control I use both the accelerator and the brake at the same time which enables you to slow down a bit but still control the car.
I have put on instrument dials on the video to show this, a good part which demonstrates this is at the end of the main straight where you need to break hard but keep the car under control.
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- GTP_CarlosF
Don't do that brother... https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...e-same-width-changes-grip-and-balance.294129/
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- MadHax
- M8DH8X
I feel the same way about the snap back but I thought that it was only happening on RS tyres, I will try tunning my yellowbird with the same settings as you have and try it again. What tyres are you testing this with?
*EDIT*
speedrcr hey man
oh btw have any of you guys realised if there is less grip on the rear tyres if you're using after market wheels?
Vagabond made a thread stating that there is a difference in feel aswell as visually you can see that the aftermarket rims are thiner in width.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...e-same-width-changes-grip-and-balance.294129/
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That's an interesting read thanks, I will go back to stock wheels and see if I can tell a difference as there does seem to be quite a few conflicting views so I am interested to see this myself.
However to me though where it says GT6 has a totally new physics engine the Yellowbird drives just the same as it did in GT5.... but as I have not played that for 2 years or any driving game for 2 years it is hard to say.
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- speedrcr
Hey MadHax! Good to see ya mate!
Well be careful on the wheels, not sure about the Yellowbird, as I don't have one yet. I have two BTR's though and can tell you that the wheel problem doesn't affect it as it has same rubber size all around (blasphemy for that car, be the first thing I'd upgrade, 8.5's in front and 11" in rear).
But the RGT suffers from the images earlier in the thread.
I also was doing some tune testing last night on Nurburgring GP with a 500PP car on Sport Softs. 1180KG with weight distro on the edge of 41/59, just a tick past 40/60.
Video was done with my crappy phone camera capturing a 1080P display at 240hz, since still no options in GT6 to easily upload replays without some HDCP bypass. Sorry for the "awesome" video quality.
Well be careful on the wheels, not sure about the Yellowbird, as I don't have one yet. I have two BTR's though and can tell you that the wheel problem doesn't affect it as it has same rubber size all around (blasphemy for that car, be the first thing I'd upgrade, 8.5's in front and 11" in rear).
But the RGT suffers from the images earlier in the thread.
I also was doing some tune testing last night on Nurburgring GP with a 500PP car on Sport Softs. 1180KG with weight distro on the edge of 41/59, just a tick past 40/60.
Video was done with my crappy phone camera capturing a 1080P display at 240hz, since still no options in GT6 to easily upload replays without some HDCP bypass. Sorry for the "awesome" video quality.
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- speedrcr
What have you set your Wheel to as a standard?
I've set my DFGT Pro in Wheel settings to "Professional" with level 7 Force Feedback. Thinking of turning it down to 5. I found "Simulation" to be too much with a small wheel circumference.
I also set in Driving Options the wheel sensitivity to 0. This can be a big factor as well.
What's your settings, as this could make a large difference in setup and driving style I'd figure. Willing to try different angles.
I will say though I drive very stable and fast with my BMW Motorsports 2010 GTR and Viper GTS-R Oreca, not to mention the SRT Viper aniversary edition (pre-order model).
I have a Fanatec GT3, (just no pedals as that's not on my Christmas list to myself right now as I inherited the wheel from a friend who kept his pedals for the CSR) and I can't wait to start using it.
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I still haven't managed to conquer the snap-back problem. I've been through every wheel setting with no luck (speedrcr; the Professional / Simulation / Amateur settings only change the behavior of a few older wheels, I don't think it does anything with yours. You can tell in feedback settings menu which wheels those settings work with). Doesn't seem to make much difference what tires I use either; pretty much anytime I allow the rear to step out off-throttle enough to need to countersteer even slightly I'll get a sudden snap-back reaction (not just with Rufs, seems to happen to lesser or greater degrees with most MR/RR cars). It's incredibly annoying as that's the natural way I drive these cars and I have no interest in un-learning a skill I use for Autocross…
The good news is that the suspension tuning seems to do what it should in terms of weight-transfer. I think that even though the chassis and suspension geometry is the same for a Porsche of that era and the BTR / Yellowbird, that the RUF had a much stiffer suspension. This could explain the weight not transferring backwards and allowing the rear to settle under acceleration. I'll have to play with it a bit when I get time, but with a little experimenting I bet I can produce a car which drives very close to the 911 I autocross (with the exception of the snap-back).
The good news is that the suspension tuning seems to do what it should in terms of weight-transfer. I think that even though the chassis and suspension geometry is the same for a Porsche of that era and the BTR / Yellowbird, that the RUF had a much stiffer suspension. This could explain the weight not transferring backwards and allowing the rear to settle under acceleration. I'll have to play with it a bit when I get time, but with a little experimenting I bet I can produce a car which drives very close to the 911 I autocross (with the exception of the snap-back).
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- MadHax
- M8DH8X
Yeah I've been getting the snap back on RR and MR cars when using RS tyres. I havent tried those same cars with any other tyres yet. Tomorrow I will try a few things out, I'm going to change my rims back to the standard rims and try again on CS and SH. Then I'm going to try again with the custom rims again as I want to see if that is a problem, if it is I should be going slower and the car should be harder to handle. I will let you guys know about my findings.
Also I'm running my wheel on simulation with force feedback on 2
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- GTP_CarlosF
If my understanding of 'snapback' is the same as yours, then I found some improvement by turning my wheel (G27) sensitivity down to -2 from 0. This is with CS or SH tires, and in particular with a stock BTR that I used last night. I would expect the issue to be pronounced with RS tires as their relative grip levels are higher, so when they go, they'll go quickly and come back just as quickly when the speed is scrubbed off and the grip is regained.
Just my 2 cents...
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- MadHax
- M8DH8X
Yep I agree with that statement about the RS tyres. The RUF RGT and BTR I tested was with RS tyres, I havent tried with other tyres yet, hopefully tomorrow I will have the time to test them. The other thing is that I upgraded the rims with aftermarket rims, which means the rear wheel width was thinner. According to Vagabond their is a performance difference in grip levels so I will test that also tomorrow.
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- speedrcr
I went back to Simulation now, with FF set to 5. Also Power Assisted is turned to Off.
Yes my Wheel is highlighted to the left, its the Driving Force Pro, not the one with the red knob, but the all black with the shifter knob to the right.
I understand with the Fanatec it won't matter as it has it's own independent settings which will be a nightmare to figure out if I don't have a decent tune by then LOL, the insanity.
On the flipside of things, I got some good results from a tune that "almost" is synonymous with my tune in GT5 for the RGT. After getting some time in on the tune, I have been "understanding" the timing better on Nurburgring and weight transfer.
I'm at work at the moment so I can't recall all of my tunes, but I'll gladly share with others.
The RGT is now tuned to 500PP for race last night and from what I can tell the "snap-back" has been greatly reduced. It was also pretty fast in comparison, but very very strict on the race line, and not forgiving should you hit the wrong candy striping in certain sections of Nurburgring. Ultimately I got the rear to sit down and move like it should.
Now one thing I haven't checked that I did after wrecking the car dozens of times was, rebuilt the frame. It wasn't surprising considering the damage I brought to it. While in the Services section, going for an oil change I noticed the frame was no longer green but Yellow. So I fixed it recently and it's then I noticed the car became unruly again.
This made me start to think that perhaps the Frame Rigidity upgrade was a bad thing. Could this possibly be causing the issue that there's maybe no flex the car should need in the game for RR cars? Is this possibly why one of the 2 BTR's I have handles better? One has no money devoted to it, bone stock and detuned for 450PP. Just bought it and testing this theory tonight.
On a different note, anyone interested in a one make of BTR's tonight? 500-505 on race tires FTW?
Yes my Wheel is highlighted to the left, its the Driving Force Pro, not the one with the red knob, but the all black with the shifter knob to the right.
I understand with the Fanatec it won't matter as it has it's own independent settings which will be a nightmare to figure out if I don't have a decent tune by then LOL, the insanity.
On the flipside of things, I got some good results from a tune that "almost" is synonymous with my tune in GT5 for the RGT. After getting some time in on the tune, I have been "understanding" the timing better on Nurburgring and weight transfer.
I'm at work at the moment so I can't recall all of my tunes, but I'll gladly share with others.
The RGT is now tuned to 500PP for race last night and from what I can tell the "snap-back" has been greatly reduced. It was also pretty fast in comparison, but very very strict on the race line, and not forgiving should you hit the wrong candy striping in certain sections of Nurburgring. Ultimately I got the rear to sit down and move like it should.
Now one thing I haven't checked that I did after wrecking the car dozens of times was, rebuilt the frame. It wasn't surprising considering the damage I brought to it. While in the Services section, going for an oil change I noticed the frame was no longer green but Yellow. So I fixed it recently and it's then I noticed the car became unruly again.
This made me start to think that perhaps the Frame Rigidity upgrade was a bad thing. Could this possibly be causing the issue that there's maybe no flex the car should need in the game for RR cars? Is this possibly why one of the 2 BTR's I have handles better? One has no money devoted to it, bone stock and detuned for 450PP. Just bought it and testing this theory tonight.
On a different note, anyone interested in a one make of BTR's tonight? 500-505 on race tires FTW?
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I'm pretty sure that the sensitivity setting is for controllers only (it even mentions that it is for buttons and sticks…). Set it to 7 for a couple laps, then go back and set it to -2 and see how much difference there is (for me, if there is any difference at all it is tiny and probably just the placebo effect.)
I'm fairly sure that what PD is attempting to do is simulate what happens if one end (in this case the front) suddenly regains grip but the other end doesn't. Unfortunately, since I do a lot of lift-off-oversteer IRL I know that this shouldn't be happening. Even on CH tires and down at speeds like 30-40mph, if I left my right foot (like I might to let one of my cars rotate around a relatively tight turn at an autocross) at least half the time I'll start the counter-steer (or let the wheel do it for me, results are the same either way) and then YANK, the wheel jerks back the other direction very hard and spinning the opposite way. I understand the physics of that, and I've seen it happen plenty of times. It's actually different than the pendulum effect and feels very different in the wheel (both in GT6 and IRL). (In 7 seasons of autocross I've had snap-back in exactly one time, at the entrance to a slalom which followed a relatively fast reducing-radius sweeper, and the result was, predictably, an instant spin).
In the wheel, when you feel the weight start to tug at the wheel as you let off the throttle, that's the feeling you get IRL as the rear starts to come-around a little. GT6 does a GREAT job of this. That horrendous jerk in the opposite direction in the middle of a perfectly-good lift-off oversteer situation? That's the snap-back I'm talking about, and it shouldn't be happening at these speeds and with these tires.
I think I'm going to stop worrying about it. I don't see any way to fix it (reminds me a bit of the problems we had with the GT5 online/offline physics differences. There really wasn't any way to fix it, just had to learn to live with it).
I'm fairly sure that what PD is attempting to do is simulate what happens if one end (in this case the front) suddenly regains grip but the other end doesn't. Unfortunately, since I do a lot of lift-off-oversteer IRL I know that this shouldn't be happening. Even on CH tires and down at speeds like 30-40mph, if I left my right foot (like I might to let one of my cars rotate around a relatively tight turn at an autocross) at least half the time I'll start the counter-steer (or let the wheel do it for me, results are the same either way) and then YANK, the wheel jerks back the other direction very hard and spinning the opposite way. I understand the physics of that, and I've seen it happen plenty of times. It's actually different than the pendulum effect and feels very different in the wheel (both in GT6 and IRL). (In 7 seasons of autocross I've had snap-back in exactly one time, at the entrance to a slalom which followed a relatively fast reducing-radius sweeper, and the result was, predictably, an instant spin).
In the wheel, when you feel the weight start to tug at the wheel as you let off the throttle, that's the feeling you get IRL as the rear starts to come-around a little. GT6 does a GREAT job of this. That horrendous jerk in the opposite direction in the middle of a perfectly-good lift-off oversteer situation? That's the snap-back I'm talking about, and it shouldn't be happening at these speeds and with these tires.
I think I'm going to stop worrying about it. I don't see any way to fix it (reminds me a bit of the problems we had with the GT5 online/offline physics differences. There really wasn't any way to fix it, just had to learn to live with it).
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- speedrcr
I came back to post this to maybe give an idea of what should be happening. Yet this is with a 997 model and not a 996. Although the differences aren't too drastic. Granted this car is almost a Cup car, it shows the potential of RRwd cars.
Proof for the naysayers if you will that say a Porsche can't handle.
For your viewing pleasure and what I dream of:
This video above depicts maybe what PD was after to recreate the "snapback" effect. But its with the copious amount of grip in the rear displayed here, even in "Rallye" form and not "Cup" car form. Zeltner literally has to use the e-brake to get the rear end to toss around.
Now notice all the 996's and how much grip they get, you could only dream about that in GT6:
I'll say it again, I think PD is scared to give us those 19" wheel upgrades for the RGT in that it would spank many many cars where they get a bit more money from (Toyota, Nissan, Honda etc).
I also think they are scared to give us the option to upgrade wheel size in widths. Pan, I'm sure that was something you did right, upgrade to a wider wheel IRL? Be the first thing I'd do, not to get ri-donk-ulous (i.e. add 20's or 22", or even higher), but to get more grip with proper offsets and maybe even stay with the same height in wheel size. If I did I'd maybe go with +1 inch taller and that's it.
Proof for the naysayers if you will that say a Porsche can't handle.
For your viewing pleasure and what I dream of:
This video above depicts maybe what PD was after to recreate the "snapback" effect. But its with the copious amount of grip in the rear displayed here, even in "Rallye" form and not "Cup" car form. Zeltner literally has to use the e-brake to get the rear end to toss around.
Now notice all the 996's and how much grip they get, you could only dream about that in GT6:
I'll say it again, I think PD is scared to give us those 19" wheel upgrades for the RGT in that it would spank many many cars where they get a bit more money from (Toyota, Nissan, Honda etc).
I also think they are scared to give us the option to upgrade wheel size in widths. Pan, I'm sure that was something you did right, upgrade to a wider wheel IRL? Be the first thing I'd do, not to get ri-donk-ulous (i.e. add 20's or 22", or even higher), but to get more grip with proper offsets and maybe even stay with the same height in wheel size. If I did I'd maybe go with +1 inch taller and that's it.
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
I finished career mode earlier today (101% completion 
), and another forum posted a thread for lapping your own car round Brands Indy. So I detuned an RGT to 300 bhp, painted it sliver, put a custom diff in it at 5,5,5 and stuck a set of comfort softs on it. As close to a mk1 996 C2 as I guess I'm going to get in GT6.
Absolutely lovely to drive. It's not easy as it wants to swap ends on turn in if you carry slightly too much speed or slightly to much steering angle, and the snap back when it starts to slide a bit too far is vicious, but hook a lap up right on the edge and it's wonderful
I got a 52.3, but will be in the 51's soon enough.
Quick comment on 996 wheels in RL...
Stock, the 996 comes with 225/45 & 265/40 on 18's. The optional sport kit changes the rears to a 285 (same as for 996 GT3 versions). You don't want to go any wider than that on a N/A 996 as it just creates more understeer. 996's don't oversteer much IRL unless you're very clumsy managing the weight transfer - mostly they want to go in a straight line!
You can fit 19's to a 996 (997 wheels fit), but although they look good, they aren't as nice to drive.
), and another forum posted a thread for lapping your own car round Brands Indy. So I detuned an RGT to 300 bhp, painted it sliver, put a custom diff in it at 5,5,5 and stuck a set of comfort softs on it. As close to a mk1 996 C2 as I guess I'm going to get in GT6.Absolutely lovely to drive. It's not easy as it wants to swap ends on turn in if you carry slightly too much speed or slightly to much steering angle, and the snap back when it starts to slide a bit too far is vicious, but hook a lap up right on the edge and it's wonderful
I got a 52.3, but will be in the 51's soon enough.
Quick comment on 996 wheels in RL...
Stock, the 996 comes with 225/45 & 265/40 on 18's. The optional sport kit changes the rears to a 285 (same as for 996 GT3 versions). You don't want to go any wider than that on a N/A 996 as it just creates more understeer. 996's don't oversteer much IRL unless you're very clumsy managing the weight transfer - mostly they want to go in a straight line!
You can fit 19's to a 996 (997 wheels fit), but although they look good, they aren't as nice to drive.
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- 31
- Munich
- liated_mi_lefuet
Made tests on Tsukuba (my favorit track for handling tests) with the 996 RGT (I'm on a G27).
Overall impression with stock wheels and default suspension (stock + adjustable):
Car handles quite balanced - clearly more harmonic than in GT5.
No exaggerated snap-back, no unrealistic wheel-spin.
I don't have data from the RGT but the default spring rates appear feasible to me.
Interesting:
When I switched through the tire categories I noticed a break in of my lap time when I changed to racing tires (slicks).
It took me about 3 laps to get back to my lap time with sports soft and another two laps to get faster.
That reminded me of my first real world experience with slicks - back than I was quite surprised how difficult it was to drive fast with those tires because of their reduced transition band. So it seems as if PD have finally overcome their simple grip-scaling model.
But of course, that could all be just my imagination since I'm still on a kind of 'approach-path' to GT6...hope to land soon.
BTW: Does anybody know something about the correlation of tire temperatures and driving behaviour in GT6? Is there a decided warm-up effect? I wish there would be a precise temperature display rather than a color graduation.
Custom rims:
For me there is no doubt: There is something definitely wrong.
As soon as you chance the stock wheels there is a loss of grip at the rear end of the car.
This is independend from the rim size - also stock size custom rims show that effect.
At the end it fits to the showen pictures of different tire widths depending on which rims are fitted to the car.
To me this means:
-tire width is physical effective. That's good.
-the graphical representation of the tires correspond to their physical properties. That's good too.
=> Dear Kaz: When the GT community kept asking for a feature for the variation of tire width they meant something different than what we have right now!!!
One more interesting thing for me:
In GT5 it was not a big thing to improve the handling of a car with a custom setup.
In GT6 it is quite hard for me to find a setup which works clearly better than the default one (in terms of improving lap times - not necessarily handling).
But until now all effects from changes I made are at least feasible.
Overall impression with stock wheels and default suspension (stock + adjustable):
Car handles quite balanced - clearly more harmonic than in GT5.
No exaggerated snap-back, no unrealistic wheel-spin.
I don't have data from the RGT but the default spring rates appear feasible to me.
Interesting:
When I switched through the tire categories I noticed a break in of my lap time when I changed to racing tires (slicks).
It took me about 3 laps to get back to my lap time with sports soft and another two laps to get faster.
That reminded me of my first real world experience with slicks - back than I was quite surprised how difficult it was to drive fast with those tires because of their reduced transition band. So it seems as if PD have finally overcome their simple grip-scaling model.
But of course, that could all be just my imagination since I'm still on a kind of 'approach-path' to GT6...hope to land soon.
BTW: Does anybody know something about the correlation of tire temperatures and driving behaviour in GT6? Is there a decided warm-up effect? I wish there would be a precise temperature display rather than a color graduation.
Custom rims:
For me there is no doubt: There is something definitely wrong.
As soon as you chance the stock wheels there is a loss of grip at the rear end of the car.
This is independend from the rim size - also stock size custom rims show that effect.
At the end it fits to the showen pictures of different tire widths depending on which rims are fitted to the car.
To me this means:
-tire width is physical effective. That's good.
-the graphical representation of the tires correspond to their physical properties. That's good too.
=> Dear Kaz: When the GT community kept asking for a feature for the variation of tire width they meant something different than what we have right now!!!
One more interesting thing for me:
In GT5 it was not a big thing to improve the handling of a car with a custom setup.
In GT6 it is quite hard for me to find a setup which works clearly better than the default one (in terms of improving lap times - not necessarily handling).
But until now all effects from changes I made are at least feasible.
