SCHUMACHER will (not) drive Massa's car at Valencia!!!

[DaddyVDUB]

Dang now I gotta change my avatar again.

 

[Peter]

This is one of the most staggering things I've ever seen in my entire life.

Not only is it incredibly naive, as daan points out, it's amazingly selfish that you want an injured man to participate in an extremely athletically intensive sport.

He wasn't forced to drive in the first place, he wants to do it. I'm not being selfish, now am I? Besides, a lot of others want him to drive too.

 

[Famine]

He wasn't forced to drive in the first place, he wants to do it.

And after testing he's found he can't, because he's injured.

I'm not being selfish, now am I? Besides, a lot of others want him to drive too.

You want a guy with ongoing pain from head and neck fractures to race, even though he's injured, with "a neckbrace or something" for your own pleasure.

 

[Peter]

It was just an idea, although impossible, and stupid.

 

[Havok_]

Considering the injury he sustained was a fracture at the base of his skull, he still has pain even though the accident was in February. Wow, this says alot considering the Felipe has the very same injury.

 

[Torero82]

Do you think they will be able to find a substitute for the Europe GP?
They have these guys that test the cars but I don't know if they can get the Super Licence.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

I think test drivers are required to have the S-License already, so they should already have it.

 

[niky]

They've already announced Badoer... when the smart money is on Marc Gene.

Alessandro Zanardi has mentioned to the media that this shows a big hole in Ferrari's program... where Renault, Red Bull and Mclaren are all actively developing their young talents... Ferrari has... nothing... it's disturbing, frankly, this lack of foresight... like they expect their drivers to last forever.

 

[NapoleonMikey]

They've already announced Badoer... when the smart money is on Marc Gene.

Alessandro Zanardi has mentioned to the media that this shows a big hole in Ferrari's program... where Renault, Red Bull and Mclaren are all actively developing their young talents... Ferrari has... nothing... it's disturbing, frankly, this lack of foresight... like they expect their drivers to last forever.

its probably because they think they dont need the younger guys right out of F3000 or GP2. they can let teams like torro roso train these guys and once they have proven themselves just grab them and pay them more then the other guys can.

 

[niky]

its probably because they think they dont need the younger guys right out of F3000 or GP2. they can let teams like torro roso train these guys and once they have proven themselves just grab them and pay them more then the other guys can.

That works when you have an obvious performance advantage and can easily pirate guys from other teams (witness Kimi and the long-rumored (and wished for) Alonso deal)... but when other teams are starting to gain on you due to a levelled out playing field (due to the testing ban, more than anything else) and have drivers that they've invested a lot of time in, who, unlike drivers brought in from the outside, might actually feel loyalty to the team that brought them up through the ranks... you're relying too much on things that are beyond your control.

Of course, the prestige of driving for Ferrari will still be an attraction, but you'll miss out on a lot of good talent that you could have otherwise claimed as your own.

 

[mustang245]

The irony

👍

 

[Ardius]

They've already announced Badoer... when the smart money is on Marc Gene.

Alessandro Zanardi has mentioned to the media that this shows a big hole in Ferrari's program... where Renault, Red Bull and Mclaren are all actively developing their young talents... Ferrari has... nothing... it's disturbing, frankly, this lack of foresight... like they expect their drivers to last forever.

Firstly, Zanardi was beaten by Badoer back in the day in Italian F3 so I wouldn't be surprised if he has some bias against him.

Secondly, Ferrari doesn't need young driver programmes, it simply selects people from other teams when they have proven they are good in F1. The attraction of driving for Ferrari is enough to do this and if Ferrari hadn't used Badoer or Gene all these years as test drivers, they wouldn't be the force they are today.

Its all well and good grooming new talent, but what if they end up like Piquet Jr? Or Bourdais? I think Ferrari prefer being in the knowledge that their drivers are good before they hire them, rather than going on what they did in lower formulae, perhaps it hurts them when they need to call a reserve driver in....but then how do we know Badoer won't be any good? Give him a chance first, jeez.

And I don't think Ferrari are particularly bothered about missing out on young talent early on - as long as their current driver line-up is strong (which it has been for over 10 years now) they just keep hiring experienced, proven drivers. They can always hire young drivers after their first rookie season, where they make the most mistakes, and let the other teams do all the hard work for them.
And Ferrari has attracted excellent drivers even when its cars have not been the strongest. Mansell and Prost raced for the team when they weren't at their best. Jean Alesi and Gerhard Berger were not slow drivers either. Its Ferrari and they have undeniably a professional operation going on thanks to the Schumacher/Brawn/Todt/Badoer team - they will be able to attract new talent for years to come.

 

[Lofasz]

Considering the injury he sustained was a fracture at the base of his skull, he still has pain even though the accident was in February. Wow, this says alot considering the Felipe has the very same injury.

Not so much.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

They've already announced Badoer... when the smart money is on Marc Gene.

Alessandro Zanardi has mentioned to the media that this shows a big hole in Ferrari's program... where Renault, Red Bull and Mclaren are all actively developing their young talents... Ferrari has... nothing... it's disturbing, frankly, this lack of foresight... like they expect their drivers to last forever.

I don't think it's so much a case of them expecting the drivers to last forever, but rather a case of them being Ferrari. When was the last time a rookie made their debut for Maranello?

In the past, it's always been a case of drivers working their way into Formula One through the feeder series. Once there, they usually sign on with one of the lower teams, like Minardi or Sauber (pre-BMW). And if they impress, the eye of the larger teams turn to them. After all, both Raikkonen and Massa started out driving for Sauber. Schumacher started with Jordan and then moved to Bennetton. Barrichello raced for Jordan and Stewart before being drafted into Ferrari's ranks as Schumacher's off-sider.

The thing is that young driver programs are only really a recent phenomenon. Red Bull are the obvious ones to have one going, but McLaren picked up the trend with Lewis Hamilton. And companies like Lukoil sponsor driver development programs despite their having no association with Formula One. But Ferrari, being Ferrari, don't have one. They don't need one. You might call it arrogance, but they're one of the world's most prestigious marques. They only take the very best, because they can afford to distance themselves from younger drivers.

That said, they did get three young drivers - all Italian - to test the F2008 in November of last year. Apparently one of them, Formula Two driver Mirko Bortolotti, really impressed; he set the fastest time of the year around Fiorano (though to be fair, the previous best had been set on intermediates and Bortolotti was on dry tyres).

 

[niky]

I did admit that the prestige of Ferrari will still likely be a draw... but again, I think it's foolish not to take the opportunity to expand in that direction.

And Ferrari has attracted excellent drivers even when its cars have not been the strongest. Mansell and Prost raced for the team when they weren't at their best. Jean Alesi and Gerhard Berger were not slow drivers either. Its Ferrari and they have undeniably a professional operation going on thanks to the Schumacher/Brawn/Todt/Badoer team - they will be able to attract new talent for years to come.

Unfortunately for them... Brawn is still a strong contributor to team excellence. Just not for their team... (sorry, couldn't resist!)

Yes... maybe we should give Badoer the benefit of the doubt... we'll know all come raceday, anyway.

 

[Ardius]

I did admit that the prestige of Ferrari will still likely be a draw... but again, I think it's foolish not to take the opportunity to expand in that direction.

Unfortunately for them... Brawn is still a strong contributor to team excellence. Just not for their team... (sorry, couldn't resist!)

Yes... maybe we should give Badoer the benefit of the doubt... we'll know all come raceday, anyway.

Indeed, I meant that team of people built the image of Ferrari today - a professional and very successful team. Even though 3 of them are no longer there, everyone nowadays thinks highly of Ferrari because of their efforts, and its expected that they can still turn around their fortunes when they design a bad car, like this season for example. They will always have the ability to draw in the great drivers.

I don't think it makes them particularly foolish not to expand in that direction - like I said, why do what other teams can do for you? Surely it would be more foolish to create a young driver programme and choose your own rookies over proven talent just because everyone else is? Don't get me wrong, I fully support these programmes because they are helping more drivers get further in motorsport, however, there are benefits and disadvantages either way. I think Ferrari would rather end up with someone like Felipe Massa than Scott Speed, even if it means they don't get a Sebastien Vettel.

 

[Hun200kmh]

In the end, I think Badoer deserves this. I'm glad for him.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I think Ferrari would rather end up with someone like Felipe Massa than Scott Speed, even if it means they don't get a Sebastien Vettel.

Massa wasn't all that brilliant in his rookie years or is that your point?

 

[Peter]

Massa out-performed his team mate all the time. Even if that person was Villeneuve, that's still a good thing.

 

[daan]

Massa out-performed his team mate all the time. Even if that person was Villeneuve, that's still a good thing.

No, he didn't. Heidfeld in 2002 and Fisichella in 2004 both out-qualified and out-raced Massa. He then out-performed Jacques, just, in 2005.

 

[L_Hamilton]

No, he didn't. Heidfeld in 2002 and Fisichella in 2004 both out-qualified and out-raced Massa. He then out-performed Jacques, just, in 2005.

And that was when Jacques was already on his way out of F1. So beating a washed-up F1 driver isn't proving much.

 

[Ardius]

Massa wasn't all that brilliant in his rookie years or is that your point?

He had flashes of speed from time to time, and quite obviously Ferrari were vinidicated in their choice. All he needed was a mentor in Schumacher.

Scott Speed never had flashes of speed and was a complete waste of a race seat. Though I disagree with how he was handled by STR (they seem horrible driver managers) he didn't show anything.

But yes, it was kind of my point too - he got his rookie years out of the way before joining Ferrari as well as proving he had the ability to be fast in F1 (even if he wasn't reliably so).

I still can't get over Badoer returning, this is so awesome

 

[Peter]

Massa outperformed Raikkonen, the reigning champion, in 2008 by quite a margin, and he still is.

 

[L_Hamilton]

Massa outperformed Raikkonen, the reigning champion, in 2008 by quite a margin, and he still is.

I do believe Raikkonen said that at around the halfway point of the season when he had no chance of winning the championship so he'd help Massa in every way possible for Massa to win.

And don't forget that Massa been there for a year longer than Kimi and Kimi still has a championship at Ferrari in his first year. HMMM:idea:

 

[Peter]

Kimi had more consistency in his career than Massa. All he needed was a better car and he would be the man to get the title.

 

[mipuumal]

Kimi had more consistency in his career than Massa. All he needed was a better car and he would be the man to get the title.

What does that mean?

When Kimi was at McLaren the car was either great or horrible, hardly consistant.

 

[L_Hamilton]

What does that mean?

When Kimi was at McLaren the car was either great or horrible, hardly consistant.

+1


Everything that can malfunction in a F1 car DID for Kimi. From Rear wings breaking off to suspension breaking while leading with one to go. From Hydrolic failures(while leading)to engines going ka-blamoo.

 

[niky]

+1


Everything that can malfunction in a F1 car DID for Kimi. From Rear wings breaking off to suspension breaking while leading with one to go. From Hydrolic failures(while leading)to engines going ka-blamoo.

The Kimi curse. At first, we thought it was the reliability curse of McLaren (that started, mysteriously, when Michael and Ferrari started their long winning streak... ), but when Kimi transferred to Ferrari, which had previously been dead reliable, the bad things kept happening.