Scientists unveil missing link in Human Evolution

[Mark T]

I posted this in the Creation vs Evolution thread but thought it deserved it's own thread for continued discussion.

Who Is Ida?

Ida is a 47 million year old, perfectly preserved primate recovered from the Messel Pit in Germany.

Ida is the most complete early primate fossil ever found, and scientists believe that she could be one of our earliest ancestors. She is a remarkable link between the first primates and modern humans and despite having lived 47 million years ago, her features show striking similarities to our own.

Official site

Through radiometric dating of Messel's volcanic rocks, they discovered Ida lived 47 million years ago in the Eocene period.
This was when tropical forests stretched right to the poles, and South America was still drifting and had yet to make contact with North America.

The experts concluded Ida was not simply a lemur but a 'lemur monkey', displaying a mixture of both groups, and therefore putting her at the very branch of the human line.

 

[Touring Mars]

I'm glad you posted this in its own thread, since there is absolutely nothing useful or positive that creationism can say about this discovery, nothing at all. It's truly amazing that fossils in this condition even exist, let alone that they provide such a terrific amount of information, as well as a spectacular verification of evolution theory... I challenge anyone to look at the detail revealed in the fossil plate and not be moved by the sight of a nigh-on 50 million year old creature that is structurally so similar to ourselves. Amazing 👍

BTW, the full paper is freely available here

 

[nk4e]

She? looks like we found Eve.

 

[Sureboss]

Wow, makes Lucy seem like a baby. 47 million years!

 

[Perfect Balance]

Well that was disappointing.

I clicked the link expecting a primate/human mixed looking thing. That just looks like any other primate.

*continues to wait for monkey/human thing*

 

[Danoff]

Well that was disappointing.

I clicked the link expecting a primate/human mixed looking thing. That just looks like any other primate.

*continues to wait for monkey/human thing*

Interestingly enough, I kinda did the same thing. I think what we're both waiting for is Lucy (ie: it already exists). I'm not sure what missing link this is filling, but I don't think it's the general impression that lay people have when they hear the phrase "missing link".

 

[McLaren]

Interestingly enough, I kinda did the same thing. I think what we're both waiting for is Lucy (ie: it already exists). I'm not sure what missing link this is filling, but I don't think it's the general impression that lay people have when they hear the phrase "missing link".

Agreed. From the looks of it, the link Ida fills is the link between monkeys & lemurs, which seems to re-enforce the fact that we are part of an evolution over time, not created. It is an extremely impressive fossil, none-the-less.

 

[TofuStoreDrift]

I don't see human there. I mean the skull doesn't appear human, the tail doesn't appear human, the feet doesn't appear human. So what is human about it? My main problem with evolution is, if we evolved from monkeys, why in the world do we still have monkeys? To me this looks like another failed attempt for scientists to prove their theory. Flame away.

 

[McLaren]

I don't see human there. I mean the skull doesn't appear human, the tail doesn't appear human, the feet doesn't appear human. So what is human about it? My main problem with evolution is, if we evolved from monkeys, why in the world do we still have monkeys? To me this looks like another failed attempt for scientists to prove their theory. Flame away.

You didn't even take 1 minute to look at the site, did you?

Both these pages describe where & how Ida is linked to humans.
http://www.revealingthelink.com/who-is-ida/from-ida-to-us
http://www.revealingthelink.com/who-is-ida/idas-anatomy

 

[PAPPACLART]

Agreed. From the looks of it, the link Ida fills is the link between monkeys & lemurs, which seems to re-enforce the fact that we are part of an evolution over time, not created. It is an extremely impressive fossil, none-the-less.

There were/are many types of monkies, all of which evolved and changed or died out etc. Humans are just the current product of a particularly successful line of monkies.

Open your eyes, evolution is happening as we speak. As an example, a virus which become resistent to antibiotics evolves all the time as well as the common cold/flu bug.

 

[Omnis]

Sadly, some of us might not live 50 million minutes. 50 million years is amazing.

 

[hellnback]

Seeming 50 million minutes is some 95 years, I'll say *most* won't live that long...

 

[Joey D]

I don't see human there. I mean the skull doesn't appear human, the tail doesn't appear human, the feet doesn't appear human. So what is human about it? My main problem with evolution is, if we evolved from monkeys, why in the world do we still have monkeys? To me this looks like another failed attempt for scientists to prove their theory. Flame away.

You shouldn't see human in Ida, current Homo Sapians and Ida are about 47 million years. Evolution is a process over time and this shows the link between two different linages which is not a failed attempt at proving a theory as you put it. If anything it's a great discovery that helps give credibility to the theory.

I just hope it isn't a hoax like the Piltdown Man was.

 

[Nicksfix]

To me this looks like another failed attempt for scientists to prove their theory. Flame away.

Agreed.
I have never believed in evolution,nor will I ever believe in evolution.It's just the way that I was brought up.

 

[Joey D]

Agreed.
I have never believed in evolution,nor will I ever believe in evolution.It's just the way that I was brought up.

So you are just going to ignore science and evidence? That makes no sense. What evidence do you have to suggest things don't evolve?

 

[Nicksfix]

What evidence do you have to suggest things don't evolve?

The bible...............enough said !!!!!

 

[Perfect Balance]

This is becoming an evolution thread. 👎

Evolution has been observed in action. It's not a theory, it's been proven to exist in the form of natural selection. It simply means the change in genetic make up over time.

Evolution doesn't mean we came from monkeys. Don't confuse the two.

 

[Joey D]

The bible...............enough said !!!!!

No where in the Bible does it say that evolution can't happen. Why does everyone turn evolution into a religious discussion? You do realise if a supreme being or beings exists, they could have created humans through evolution right?

I mean if you honestly think some 6,000 years ago God worked some magic over 6 days and out popped a world and two humans, than so be it. But there is 0 proof that happened. The Bible is merely a book of fables, stories and myths which has been worked and reworked to help people understand the unknown. This is not to say though that your Christian god didn't create life on Earth and help guide it to where we are today through evolution. I mean there is the whole study of Intelligent Design which looks at this "theory". Granted they don't have any proof either but it at least makes more sense then some unseen being snapping his fingers and producing life.

From this you also can not cite the Bible as a legitimate source as we aren't sure who wrote it, when it was written or what has been changed or left out over the years.

Evolution doesn't mean we came from monkeys. Don't confuse the two.

Evolution has never said we came from monkeys, but rather a common ancestor, which appears to be Ida.

 

[McLaren]

The bible...............enough said !!!!!

In other words, you chose to believe in something that may or may not have existed over something that has been proven to exist?

 

[Perfect Balance]

Evolution has never said we came from monkeys.

I'm just pointing out that all of that stuff is still an idea that has yet to be proven, but evolution itself has already been observed in action.


People seem to think evolution means the animals are sitting out in the woods somewhere morphing into different creatures, but it's simply natural selection at work, which is a really simple idea that no one really has a problem with.

 

[Nicksfix]

Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

You may call the bible a book of fables or anything you want to,but I personally know better than not to do that,(my upbringing).

Perfect Balance is very correct,this is becoming another Evolution -vs- Creation thread.So with that I am done.

The Creation -vs- Evolution debate will go on and on and on.It can be discusssed for the longest amount of time,and no-one will win.I will just say one more thing about this.As long as you don't try to drill your Evolution theory upon me,I will not try to drill the Creation upon you.You have your beliefs,and I have mine,and as long as we don't cross over this,we will be just fine. 👍

 

[McLaren]

Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

You may call the bible a book of fables or anything you want to,but I personally know better than not to do that,(my upbringing).

That's fine that you believe what you want, but don't try to act like something that has been proven to exist does not because you think The Bible tells you to.

 

[Omnis]

Seeming 50 million minutes is some 95 years, I'll say *most* won't live that long...

Well I thought I would use some more wishful thinking. Who knows how long we'll live with the advancements in medical technology and then chemicals in the water.

 

[StrokerAce]

Ahhhh blindness...Its stupefying.

This is a truly amazing discovery, I read it earlier, I live everyday just knowing technology and evolution is happening around me, we are growing, learning, adapting. Who knows what we will have in 50 years? 50 years ago the best route of communication was a telephone or snail mail. Most people believed in the bible, and racism was rampant. Now being agnostic or no religious belief at all is growing, we have a black president, and I am on the internet typing a message which will be read instantly after I hit send. Truly amazing.

Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

You may call the bible a book of fables or anything you want to,but I personally know better than not to do that,(my upbringing).

Perfect Balance is very correct,this is becoming another Evolution -vs- Creation thread.So with that I am done.

The Creation -vs- Evolution debate will go on and on and on.It can be discusssed for the longest amount of time,and no-one will win.I will just say one more thing about this.As long as you don't try to drill your Evolution theory upon me,I will not try to drill the Creation upon you.You have your beliefs,and I have mine,and as long as we don't cross over this,we will be just fine. 👍

 

[TofuStoreDrift]

I'm going to shut up on for now, but I will leave you with this. Scientists will study cave paintings and listen to what they have to say, yet the one book thats been handed down for generations, on stone tablets, on scrolls, and in books that have been published more than any other, they throw it out the window. If natural selection weeded off certain primate features so we could exist, how come we still have monkeys? Shouldn't they evolved to humans aswell? I'm mean, aren't we the perfect species, since we conquered the whole planet? Any piece of land humans desire, we take it, either be force or technology. Let me ask you this, why were we chose to be the smartest creature on Earth? I'd like to believe it is because Eve ate the forbidden fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. That to me explains why us human have been able to one thing no other known creature has ever been able to do, argue with someone else on the other side of the planet. Now I'm not trying to push my views on you, I'm just trying to open your eyes to other possiblies. God bless.

 

[mafia_boy]

What evidence do you have to suggest things don't evolve?

The bible...............enough said !!!!!

This argument reminds me of the family guy clip with evolution for rednecks, I'll find the clip I'm thinking of.

Here it is......watch the first 35 seconds.

 

[McLaren]

If natural selection weeded off certain primate features so we could exist, how come we still have monkeys? Shouldn't they evolved to humans aswell?

Why do you keep insinuating that evolution doesn't happen because monkies are still around? It doesn't work like that. Evolution doesn't happen in a straight line.

According to your logic, reptiles should no longer be alive because they have evolved into other forms, and yet continue to live on.

 

[nk4e]

snip

Though through DNA Chimps are 94% related to humans., I was watching the History channel one day and they were talking about Adam and Eve. On how they develop techniques to farm for food rather than the lord providing it. Natural Selection works depending on your situation. Species or Families survived by mutation in an environment.

 

[Touring Mars]

Well that was disappointing.

I clicked the link expecting a primate/human mixed looking thing. That just looks like any other primate.

The important thing about it is that it represents one of the most complete individual specimens of an ancient primate ever found - remember that most primate fossils found thus far are fragmentary and typically massively incomplete - and therefore our knowledge of the structure of various ancestors of our own species has been pieced together. Very few examples, especially from this period of time, exist intact and are this well preserved...

That said, you're not the only one to be unimpressed... As published in Science today, some scientists are quick to point out that this fossil is hardly "revolutionary" (even if it is interesting/exciting to the general public), not least because it doesn't actually throw up many surprises - this find and others like it are entirely consistent with (and predicted by) evolution theory, so ironically it is noteworthy for being so un-unusual!

The way that this particular fossil discovery has been revealed - big media hype, a nice, shiny website etc., - is particularly unusual, however - but there are a few reasons for this. 1) It really is one of the finest primate fossils from this era ever found and 2) evolution is a hot topic these days (thanks mainly to a resurgence in creationism). But the fact remains that, however amazing this specimen may be, it is but one piece in an already massive canon of evidence that gives us an insight into how nature really works.

 

[TheCracker]

I'd like to believe it is because Eve ate the forbidden fruit from the Tree of Knowledge .....Now I'm not trying to push my views on you, I'm just trying to open your eyes to other possiblies. God bless.

Oh come on, how gullible do you think we are? - that sounds like a passage straight out of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs!

You'll be telling us next that some geezer managed to feed five thousand people with five loaves of bread and two fish!!!